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Kietay Ayari
Monopoly Money Operations
40
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 20:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
The Rokh is not a split weapons platform... it only has 4 missile hard points so no one in their right mind is ever going to use them. There is no reason to complain if they give it full bonuses for both weapon types like it should have D: Ferox #1 |
The Underdark
Serenity A.E. Shades of Gray
1
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Posted - 2011.11.15 20:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Daergaar wrote:The Underdark wrote:I'm fighting this change for the Missile users, If this goes through they get nothing this winter.
Caldari is a missile race, at least give them hardpoints back, if not any bonus's. We actually have enough missle boats, thank you. We don't need another, especially one with a split weapons system with no bonus to missiles. That's what the Rokh is for (and yes I'm aware it's a battleship). We don't actually have any good hybrid turret battlecruisers yet (the Ferox is not a ship).
If you want a good Hybrid ship and you already have the skills for the turrets, just train the measly skills needed to fly a gal BC..
changing a ship type is far FAR less taxing than training a whole new weapon type and all it's specializations |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2011.11.15 22:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Oh get stuffed.... It's CALDARI, it should have MISSILES. Hybrids are for gallente FFS.
You sir have been found guilty of being whining baby and are hereby prohibited from spreading your worthless tainted seed. |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 22:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
The Underdark wrote:If you want a good Hybrid ship and you already have the skills for the turrets, just train the measly skills needed to fly a gal BC..
Wrong. Gallente are drone race. Hybrids are their secondary weapon system. You're very glad I caught that one before you looked stupid. |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
102
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 22:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
Probably the best choice they could've made, kudoz to Tallest and co. looking forward to sisi tonight. |
The Underdark
Serenity A.E. Shades of Gray
2
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Posted - 2011.11.15 22:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
Arthur Frayn wrote:The Underdark wrote:If you want a good Hybrid ship and you already have the skills for the turrets, just train the measly skills needed to fly a gal BC.. Wrong. Gallente are drone race. Hybrids are their secondary weapon system. You're very glad I caught that one before you looked stupid.
are you joking? drones are a variety, utility item. a FEW ships specialize in them, far more Gal ships are suited for Hybrids |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 22:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
The Underdark wrote:are you joking? drones are a variety, utility item. a FEW ships specialize in them, far more Gal ships are suited for Hybrids
All Gallente battleships have huge dronebays and bandwidth. Gallente cruisers and battlecruisers are the same. Gallente are only race with frigates that have big drone bays and drone damage bonuses. Even the hybrid Caldari/Gallente ships have their primary Gallente bonus being drone damage and huge drone bays.
Gallente carriers are all damage bonus with fighters (just bigger drones). Drones are a primary weapon system. Hybrids are secondary. Same with Caldari. Missiles are primary, hybrids secondary. Doesn't matter that both races have one or two ships built around their secondary weapon systems. So to say Caldari Naga should have missiles is silly. Gallente Talos should be drone boat, by that logic. Hence, Naga is fine as is. You are stupid for not seeing this.
If you want a cheap torp boat, fly a Raven which is awesome for that role. Torps have flight time which means you want a ship that can survive being shot at while the big slow lumbering torps stroll over to the target and BOOM. Torp Naga vs every other tier 3 BC = dead Naga due to other BC being low sig and faster and insta-hit with their guns while torp Naga cries itself to sleep. Torp naga also useless against bigger ships that can insta-hit with guns and smaller ships that torps can't hurt. Naga cries itself to sleep again if CCP listens to your dumb opinion.
You are not smart. |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
309
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 22:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kietay Ayari wrote:D: I know the tornado is better... but its better than all 3 by miles. I really have no idea why CCP did this... even when they nerfed all 4 the Tornado received the least nerfs :| But minmatar already win everything so as long as its as good as the other two races Im happy! I think a Torp Naga will be a good ratting ship if you are just trying to clear all the battleships! Yea training large projectile turrets next .. too bad for the torpedoes. Another niche ship, just what we needed ..
Thanks CCP for rendering a promising ship useless for me for no good reason. |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
102
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 22:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jennifer Starling wrote: Thanks CCP for rendering a promising ship useless for me for no good reason.
Really, because of torps? Why the hell would you want a paper-thin glass-cannon sniper that was limited to using torps? Keeping in mind the rigs and painters necessary to get anything out of them, i'm pretty glad that ccp went the hybrid way. |
The Underdark
Serenity A.E. Shades of Gray
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 22:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
Arthur Frayn wrote:The Underdark wrote:are you joking? drones are a variety, utility item. a FEW ships specialize in them, far more Gal ships are suited for Hybrids All Gallente battleships have huge dronebays and bandwidth. Gallente cruisers and battlecruisers are the same. Gallente are only race with frigates that have big drone bays and drone damage bonuses. Even the hybrid Caldari/Gallente ships have their primary Gallente bonus being drone damage and huge drone bays. Gallente carriers are all damage bonus with fighters (just bigger drones). Drones are a primary weapon system. Hybrids are secondary. Same with Caldari. Missiles are primary, hybrids secondary. Doesn't matter that both races have one or two ships built around their secondary weapon systems. So to say Caldari Naga should have missiles is silly. Gallente Talos should be drone boat, by that logic. Hence, Naga is fine as is. You are stupid for not seeing this. If you want a cheap torp boat, fly a Raven which is awesome for that role. Torps have flight time which means you want a ship that can survive being shot at while the big slow lumbering torps stroll over to the target and BOOM. Torp Naga vs every other tier 3 BC = dead Naga due to other BC being low sig and faster and insta-hit with their guns while torp Naga cries itself to sleep. Torp naga also useless against bigger ships that can insta-hit with guns and smaller ships that torps can't hurt. Naga cries itself to sleep again if CCP listens to your dumb opinion. You are not smart.
Simply because Gal ships can carry drones more often and larger ones does not mean they are primarily drone based. Unless given a specific bonus drones are a small part of the damage for hybrid ships even with heavies compared to Hybrid's output and otherwise they are used as a utility device, ecm, web, anti-frig with damage type variety.. and if you're really going to argue that the main point of Gal carriers is the fighter damage, that's simply rediculous.
This is getting derailed though, this is not a what do Gal use as a primary weapon, It's that every weapon type now has a Over-sized weapon platform except the Missiles. fly a torp raven? yeah sure, except the whole point of these things is to be fast, small and fragile with a TON of damage, neither do they have a single 8x launcher ship.. or hell even launcher models on their ships. Missiles are harder to use in a lot of situations, and considering how fragile these ships are they will be significantly more effective in a fleet with web's, scrams, painters, plenty of utility mod's to enable the torp's / cruise / whatever missile to hit. |
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Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
102
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 22:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
The Underdark wrote: It's that every weapon type now has a Over-sized weapon platform except the Missiles.
Two words: Stealth Bombers. |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
313
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 23:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:Jennifer Starling wrote: Thanks CCP for rendering a promising ship useless for me for no good reason.
Really, because of torps? Why the hell would you want a paper-thin glass-cannon sniper that was limited to using torps? Keeping in mind the rigs and painters necessary to get anything out of them, i'm pretty glad that ccp went the hybrid way. I said useless for me!
Not saying it's a bad ship but I can't use large hybrids (or any hybrids at all, I may consider small ones) but I have good missile skills and can fit and fly Manticores and Tengus pretty well. So I'll get an Oracle and may train large projectiles as it opens up far more useful ships. There's just a load of people that only use missiles that miss out on an opportunity to use a nice shiny new ship now, however good or bad they may be. Not very considerate of CCP to neglect the low SP people out there. |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
102
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 23:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jennifer Starling wrote:Not saying it's a bad ship but I can't use large hybrids (or any hybrids at all, I may consider small ones).
Ok, I see where you're coming from.
On the bright side, if you had trained hybrids before now, you would have regretted it until a few weeks ago. |
The Underdark
Serenity A.E. Shades of Gray
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 23:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:The Underdark wrote: It's that every weapon type now has a Over-sized weapon platform except the Missiles. Two words: Stealth Bombers.
You would deny them an updated more versatile new model simply because of a highly specialized ship? |
A'Brantox Foson
SKEET ELITE
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 23:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Hmmmmm. There are a lot of carebears here |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 23:50:00 -
[46] - Quote
The Underdark wrote:Nimrod Nemesis wrote:The Underdark wrote: It's that every weapon type now has a Over-sized weapon platform except the Missiles. Two words: Stealth Bombers. You would deny them an updated more versatile new model simply because of a highly specialized ship?
No, not just one ship. Four ships. And tier 3 bc's are not much less specialized. They are fast glass-cannons. A bit like a bomber with no bomb launcher or cloak and more ehp. |
Harkon'nyn
Arkham's Injustice Gang Liberi Fatales
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 00:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
I am displeased with the change.
I am a missile using pilot, and I really have no skills to speak of in hybrids. Mostly because I find their damage sub par at the ranges of most missiles. People are saying you need X, Y, Z to make torps work. I disagree. I have been testing the Naga on SiSi since it was dropped there. I would stack my Torp Naga against any hybrid fitted one any day of the week. Javelin missiles rip anything BC and smaller a new one. Rage Torps for BS sized targets, no TP needed for either one.
That all being said. There is no reason in the world, that CCP can't leave the ship with dual roles. From what I understood it had both to start with and was just fine. If this change is permanent, there are many pilots who will feel there is no need for it. And it will be relegated to a poor footnote, and rarely used. In it's previous configuration it was a versatile ship, with many uses for both sets of pilots.
Long story short: If people wanna fly fail fits, you guys who are so damn skilled, enjoy the free kills. If you wanna build the "ultimate" blaster boat, go for it, and show us missile guys how it is done. I know I would have made some noise with a torp one. People should have a choice to fit it however they wish, fail or not.
I was excited about the new ships, until this. I don't really care now.
Flame away. |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 00:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
Harkon'nyn wrote:People are saying you need X, Y, Z to make torps work. I disagree.
People aren't just "saying," that. It's a fact.
Your argument that the Naga was better in split-bonus failure mode is telling. Run along and fly something else if you don't have the gunnery skills. Not all caldari ships were designed with missile-spewing in mind and I don't see you complaining about the merlin, moa, ferox, rokh, eagle, vulture, harpy, raptor (ok, even I complain about the raptor), etc.
TLDR; Caldari ships utilize missile launchers and hyrbids. In this case, it made a lot more sense to make it a hybrid ship. |
Kietay Ayari
Monopoly Money Operations
41
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 00:44:00 -
[49] - Quote
It doesnt have to have split bonuses... the original stats for it had full double bonuses. This is how every split ship should be, a half bonus is sooo silly. D: Ferox #1 |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 00:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kietay Ayari wrote:It doesnt have to have split bonuses... the original stats for it had full double bonuses. This is how every split ship should be, a half bonus is sooo silly. D:
It wasn't a split ship, just a ship with two options. You could use either weapon type in exclusivity. If you want a real split weapon system fly a merlin. |
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
146
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 01:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
The Underdark wrote:Arthur Frayn wrote:The Underdark wrote:If you want a good Hybrid ship and you already have the skills for the turrets, just train the measly skills needed to fly a gal BC.. Wrong. Gallente are drone race. Hybrids are their secondary weapon system. You're very glad I caught that one before you looked stupid. are you joking? drones are a variety, utility item. a FEW ships specialize in them, far more Gal ships are suited for Hybrids
actually, considering how CCP isn't doing nearly enough to unsuck blasters, drones will remain the main weapon for gallente race for the time being. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
47
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 01:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
I like this change because now it's a proper little sister to the Rokh in more than just appearance, which with the hybrid changes we'll hopefully be seeing more of. |
TS0
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 02:29:00 -
[53] - Quote
well as having 7m sp into missiles and only 800k into gunnery i wont ever fly/buy this piece of ****.....with 8 torps it would of been a gankers wet dream....as for 60m minerals cost..would of been great for that...but i guess not. hope they didnt change it just for that reason as for the past 3 years ccp has been nerfing everthing they can to make iot harder to do so.. |
Kietay Ayari
Monopoly Money Operations
41
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 03:09:00 -
[54] - Quote
D: how is it possible people still do not understand that these are not Tech 3 BCs but Tier 3... Also how can someone know they only cost 60m in minerals and STILL not know the difference between tech 3 and tier 3 D: Ferox #1 |
Shoot2kilI
Unchained Potential
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 03:52:00 -
[55] - Quote
ITT: A bunch of smug faggots because the Caldari, whose primary weapons system is Missiles, now have more gunnery-based battlecruiser platforms than their native weapons platform. Welp, didn't want to buy that BPO or manufacture/use that ship anyway. |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 04:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lots of butt-hurt from the "I never trained gunnery," crowd. Take that midol and go to sleep honey. |
Desudes
Federal Defence Union Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 04:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
It actually seems that CCP is learning.
It does also strike me that this way they can neglect balancing cruise & torps vs turrets. I was sad when I came back to EVE to discover torps nerfed into the ground. Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu? |
Robertson Nolen
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 04:39:00 -
[58] - Quote
Oh good we can't use torpedoes now |
Relnala
Event.Horizon Flatline.
10
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 06:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
People forget that Cadari is hybrids and missile, everyone just forgets the hybrid part because the turrets themselves are terrible and the Caldari hulls that use them are even worse :p |
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
50
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 06:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
Harkon'nyn wrote:I am displeased with the change.
I am a missile using pilot, and I really have no skills to speak of in hybrids. Mostly because I find their damage sub par at the ranges of most missiles. People are saying you need X, Y, Z to make torps work. I disagree. I have been testing the Naga on SiSi since it was dropped there. I would stack my Torp Naga against any hybrid fitted one any day of the week. Javelin missiles rip anything BC and smaller a new one. Rage Torps for BS sized targets, no TP needed for either one.
That all being said. There is no reason in the world, that CCP can't leave the ship with dual roles. From what I understood it had both to start with and was just fine. If this change is permanent, there are many pilots who will feel there is no need for it. And it will be relegated to a poor footnote, and rarely used. In it's previous configuration it was a versatile ship, with many uses for both sets of pilots.
Long story short: If people wanna fly fail fits, you guys who are so damn skilled, enjoy the free kills. If you wanna build the "ultimate" blaster boat, go for it, and show us missile guys how it is done. I know I would have made some noise with a torp one. People should have a choice to fit it however they wish, fail or not.
I was excited about the new ships, until this. I don't really care now.
Flame away.
1x Assault Frigate would clean your clock if you using 8x torps since you won't be doing any damage at the speed it moves and it's got more than enough speed and dps to catch you and kill you with your small tank. With a Hybrid using ship atleast you have a chance at killing a ship like that if you keep transversal to a minimum.
So just saying pitting a torp naga against small ships is often gonna be suicide.
It's about time hybrid users where thrown a bone. |
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