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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
132
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Posted - 2014.04.23 14:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know the academic answer is 'No, because ISK is traded, not created'.
BUT assuming that players that buy PLEX with ISK either:
a) have an eccess of ISK that they wouldn't spend in any other way (they already have all the in-game assets they need)
b) grind ISK fawcets (such as NPC bounties) specifically to acquire ISK to buy PLEX (meaning: they wouldn't grind if they didn't need PLEX)
the effect of PLEX would be respectively:
a) injecting ISK into the general EVE economy, that otherwise would've just sat there in somebody's fat wallet
b) stimulating people to use ISK fawcets, that otherwise they would've ignored
So at the end of the day, PLEX isn't a 'pure' ISK fawcet but very much acts as one, for example favouring in-game inflation.
Not saying this is good nor bad, just a thought. Makes sense, market people? |
Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
190
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Posted - 2014.04.23 14:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
By that logic exotic dancers and veldspar are isk faucets. |
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
26
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Posted - 2014.04.23 14:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I know the academic answer is 'No, because ISK is traded, not created'.
All PLEX does is help ISK change hands. TAUTX Bank: 12.5% of profits paid to investors monthly. More info: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=322582&find=unread |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
132
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Posted - 2014.04.23 14:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:By that logic exotic dancers and veldspar are isk faucets. Not really the same thing though.
There would be no game without ships (veldspar) and you're probably the only person in EVE that thinks that 7,000 Exotic Dancers have the same practical value as 1 PLEX.
Seriously, to rephrase the question: I'm reasoning less PLEX injected into the game would mean less in-game inflation, and vice-versa. Do you agree or not? If not, why? |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
132
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Posted - 2014.04.23 14:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I know the academic answer is 'No, because ISK is traded, not created'. All PLEX does is help ISK change hands. Exactly, from people who wouldn't spend it (or wouldn't have acquired it) to people that have a very high probability to spend it on the market, thus increasing both demand and inflation.
Makes sense or not? If not, why?
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
217
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Posted - 2014.04.23 14:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Your assumption regarding how players earn the ISK for PLEX is wrong. Personally 80% of my NAV is invested in long term things, the rest is used for trading to earn the ISK to buy PLEX and other stuff, although I'm pretty lazy and most of that has turned into a long term investment too . I also know players that earn ISK for their PLEX by researching BPOs they buy from NPCs, which are any ISK sink. .
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
132
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Posted - 2014.04.23 15:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Your assumption regarding how players earn the ISK for PLEX is wrong. Personally 80% of my NAV is invested in long term things, the rest is used for trading to earn the ISK to buy PLEX and other stuff, although I'm pretty lazy and most of that has turned into a long term investment too . I also know players that earn ISK for their PLEX by researching BPOs they buy from NPCs, which are an ISK sink. Correct, and I have no hard data to confirm or disprove the assumption.
The safe bet is probably that PLEX is stimulating EVE economy, by giving 'spenders' a quick way to acquire ISK from 'earners'... but that wouldn't have been a catchy Post Subject. |
Nate Guralman
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
50
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Posted - 2014.04.23 17:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
No, PLEX is not an ISK faucet. PLEX is another asset that you can create/trade/destroy like any other asset in EVE. In essence, a PLEX is equivalent to a ship, module, implant, whatever.
Your argument that PLEX is an ISK faucet because it encourages players to grind ISK faucets doesn't hold, because by that rational, anything you can purchase with ISK would also be an ISK faucet, since you'd have to grind ISK faucets to get the ISK in the first place.
Your other argument, that PLEX is an ISK faucet because it favors in-game inflation is also flawed. The generally accepted cause of inflation is an increase in the supply of money (ISK in this case). Since the purchase of a PLEX does not increase the actual amount of ISK available in-game, it cannot be a cause of inflation, and thus, it can't be an ISK faucet.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3502
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Posted - 2014.04.23 18:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
PLEX does increase the velocity of money ISK, leading to inflation, according to Dr. E.
I'm suspicious that CCP has now stepped-in as PLEX prices, last I looked, had stabilized. Dr. E. doesn't like rapid PLEX change. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5397
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Posted - 2014.04.23 18:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:PLEX does increase the velocity of money ISK, leading to inflation, according to Dr. E.
I'm suspicious that CCP has now stepped-in as PLEX prices, last I looked, had stabilized. Dr. E. doesn't like rapid PLEX change.
I too have written about PLEX => ISK velocity some times
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
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Nate Guralman
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
50
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Posted - 2014.04.23 18:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:PLEX does increase the velocity of money ISK, leading to inflation, according to Dr. E.
Some economic theories state that velocity does have an impact on inflation. But the main inflation influencer is still the introduction of new money into the system.
That said, it still doesn't mean that PLEX is a faucet. A faucet introduces new ISK into the EVE economy. Buying PLEX does not introduce new ISK. In fact, it might even be a deflationary influence on the economy. If you introduce more goods into an economy, you're effectively raising supply. As long as the demand doesn't change, prices should fall.
But I'm getting off topic. PLEX are still not an ISK faucet, because they don't introduce any new money into the system. In fact, they would be more of an ISK sink, since a portion of the sale goes to taxes, which removes money from the system.
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3410
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Posted - 2014.04.23 19:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
As has been pointed out time and time again inflation is either non-existent or so small as to be unnoticeable amongst other effects (patch changes, etc) in eve. That pretty well makes both points irrelevant...except for to plex themselves, really. The first class of person might buy them as an investment above and beyond his own needs on the assumption that they continue to rise while the second grinds and lives hand to mouth. Even in that case, however, the grind activity being a faucet doesn't actually matter - all that matters is that it's money in their pocket somehow. That's why post-inferno FW caused such a large plex spike - it was ridiculously easy money in ridiculously large quantities that we're ridiculously accessible. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
137
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Posted - 2014.04.23 22:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thank you all for your kind answers, it's an interesting read so far. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
137
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Posted - 2014.04.23 22:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
mynnna wrote:As has been pointed out time and time again inflation is either non-existent or so small as to be unnoticeable amongst other effects (patch changes, etc) in eve. That pretty well makes both points irrelevant...except for to plex themselves, really. The first class of person might buy them as an investment above and beyond his own needs on the assumption that they continue to rise while the second grinds and lives hand to mouth. Even in that case, however, the grind activity being a faucet doesn't actually matter - all that matters is that it's money in their pocket somehow. That's why post-inferno FW caused such a large plex spike - it was ridiculously easy money in ridiculously large quantities that we're ridiculously accessible. I see what you mean.
I find that FW-driven spike you mention very interesting! It looks like, even though no new ISK was created (actually, as we all know, npc loyalty stores are ISK sinks), the fact that large quantities of existing ISK were 're-distributed' to several 'ex-space poor' players caused an increase in PLEX demand. Cool!
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3412
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Posted - 2014.04.24 05:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Okay for some reason your apparent enthusiasm comes off as weird and a little creepy, I'm not sure why. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
137
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Posted - 2014.04.24 07:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Okay for some reason your apparent enthusiasm comes off as weird and a little creepy, I'm not sure why. LMAO
Maybe you're just too accustomed to people (especially OPs) posting to either whine, troll or desperately try to prove (to themselves) that they're smarter than everyone else in the whole make-believe EVE universe.
There are still people that just love the game, actually try to understand other people's views and enjoy learning new things about such a complex simulation. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2734
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Posted - 2014.04.24 16:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
I see your logic, but it works the other way too. If there was no PLEX, then the players who would be selling the PLEX for ISK would instead run missions or do other "ISK faucet" activities in order to get ISK. The existence of PLEX does not encourage activities that create ISK, it just changes who does those activities.
Also, many players get their ISK for PLEX from industry, which is an ISK sink. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
139
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Posted - 2014.04.24 17:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:I see your logic, but it works the other way too. If there was no PLEX, then the players who would be selling the PLEX for ISK would instead run missions or do other "ISK faucet" activities in order to get ISK. The existence of PLEX does not encourage activities that create ISK, it just changes who does those activities.
Also, many players get their ISK for PLEX from industry, which is an ISK sink. True.
I like the 'PLEX increases ISK velocity' theory Tau Cabalander mentioned (btw, I recon Dr. E knows what he's talking about). If I understood correctly:
1) people buying PLEX and selling it for ISK encourage other players to generate ISK, whether it's from farming proper faucets or getting it from somebody else's stockpiles; presumably the other players are also better/faster at generating ISK than the average 'PLEX for $' buyer
2) most of them immediately spend the ISK they just acquired: doesn't make much sense to sell PLEX just to stockpile ISK (though the opposite is reasonable)
End result, more ISK traded, less ISK stockpiled. Which, I guess, is another way of stating the obvious: a free sub is a worthwhile thing to spend ISK on. |
Torothin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
249
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Posted - 2014.04.24 17:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Good question! |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
293
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Posted - 2014.04.24 19:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
I hate plex. I could have been very wealthy person isk wise now if not that.. "shiny" feeling each time I look on that golden cube and acknoledge I can purchase number of those...
:X
never again! "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
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Julian Huxley
Solomon Bank and Trading Co.
1
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Posted - 2014.04.24 20:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote: a) have an eccess of ISK that they wouldn't spend in any other way (they already have all the in-game assets they need)
a) injecting ISK into the general EVE economy, that otherwise would've just sat there in somebody's fat wallet
This is hinging on the bunk economics of 'idle resources'. Not using your resources is itself a use. It is to say you perceive your opportunity cost to be higher investing your ISK somewhere other than just sitting on it. If I have a massive stack of trit, and the price of trit plummets, are my resources truly idle when I keep my stack? Obviously not, I'm waiting for a better deal to come along, because I value the possibility of getting a better deal more than I value the pennies on the dollar I'd get for liquidating. The same is true if the price of trit had skyrocketed, maybe I think it's a sign of something bigger and better and want to wait to capture my profits.
Quote: b) grind ISK fawcets (such as NPC bounties) specifically to acquire ISK to buy PLEX (meaning: they wouldn't grind if they didn't need PLEX)
b) stimulating people to use ISK fawcets, that otherwise they would've ignored
Given that idle resources are not in fact idle, what you've said here indicates that PLEX actually has an overall faucet effect. |
Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
9
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Posted - 2014.04.25 01:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
There are two sectors of Eve economy. One involves stuff that you can get while AFK or without risk. The other is the stuff that you can get if you are lucky and not AFK. The first sector is going to have a bias towards being in deflation. However, PLEX probably has inflationary effect on this second sector.
In other words, people may buy officer mods to trick out their large ship, but they are not going to buy tritanium with PLEX. |
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