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Samuel Miller
Scorpion Ventures Rim Worlds Protectorate
0
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Posted - 2014.04.24 04:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
I should start by saying that I am a cloaky pilot. I love my stealth bomber and cloaky hauler. There are times though that I feel it seems a bit overpowered.
To explain a possible solution i will use existing game mechanics to try and paint a possible solution.
Each race has 2 Tier 1 Destroyers but only 1 of the Tier 1 Hulls are used as the Interdictor. In the case of Minmatar you have the Talwar that doesn't have a Tier 2 counter-part.
The Tier 2 Talwar (T2T) would use probing skills but instead of a launcher (though a launcher could be used) an Emitter would be fitted to a high slot. The purpose of this emitter would be to send out a Tacheon burst (borrowing from Star Trek) that would 'paint' all cloaked ships within the range of it's "burst". This would impact ALL cloaked ships within the pulses range.
As far as skill requirements and what should be brought into factor: Range Finding & Pinpointing make sense. A new eWar skill should be in order I would think. Also, the emitter would have a cool down based upon the range requested. If firing a 32 AU range then the cool down could be as high as 5 minutes but compared to a range of 4 AU with a cool down of 45 seconds.
The skills could also impact whether the T2T is able to warp directly to the target or do they only get within 1 AU and are required to use dScan from there. It would make sense to use these in tandem with a ship utilizing Combat Scanner Probes. This would bring a "cat & mouse" game to cloaked vessels and provide a tier 2 hull for those left out tier 1 destroyer hulls.
I'm looking forward to the feedback & discussion. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
491
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Posted - 2014.04.24 05:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Samuel Miller wrote:I'm looking forward to the feedback & discussion. I don't think you realize what you've done....
Search tool could have saved you. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
118
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Posted - 2014.04.24 05:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Samuel Miller wrote:I'm looking forward to the feedback & discussion. I don't think you realize what you've done.... Search tool could have saved you. Yep. Would have saved you a lot of pain that will soon fill this thread. I do recall making such a suggestion while back after the second set of destroyers were released. One has to admit the hulls do lend themselves to concept. |
Samuel Miller
Scorpion Ventures Rim Worlds Protectorate
0
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Posted - 2014.04.24 05:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ah hell ... guess I didn't search the right terms but I see all the chatter now.
I wasn't really looking to kill AFK cloaking ... just to find a new mechanic. Got me thinking of old WWII days of destroyers hunting subs in the Atlantic. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
492
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Posted - 2014.04.24 05:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
you still have a chance, no one has quoted anything. Delete everything. We won't tell i promise. Well, I won't tell at least. |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
395
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Posted - 2014.04.24 05:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
See, I'm not going to lecture you on the AFK cloaking thing that people will be here in force about soon.
I just want to point out how broken this would be on gate cloaks. Someone jumps the gate? Ping them before grid loads and get them pointed. |
Gigan Amilupar
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
228
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Posted - 2014.04.24 05:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Samuel Miller wrote:Ah hell ... guess I didn't search the right terms but I see all the chatter now.
I wasn't really looking to kill AFK cloaking ... just to find a new mechanic. Got me thinking of old WWII days of destroyers hunting subs in the Atlantic.
This thread can only be described as kicking a hornets nest. That said, I see where your coming from...you're simply looking to discuss a new and interesting mechanic. Unfortunately after all the discussion that has been had it is almost universally acknowledged on these forums that any system of cloaking detection would almost certainly break more things then it could possibly add for content; and while I myself have kicked around some ideas the reality is that it's a very complicated topic.
Finally, I said I would link this in all relevant threads, so here it is. A vision of the future. |
Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
117
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Posted - 2014.04.24 09:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Samuel Miller wrote:I should start by saying that I am a cloaky pilot. I love my stealth bomber and cloaky hauler. There are times though that I feel it seems a bit overpowered.
To explain a possible solution i will use existing game mechanics to try and paint a possible solution.
Each race has 2 Tier 1 Destroyers but only 1 of the Tier 1 Hulls are used as the Interdictor. In the case of Minmatar you have the Talwar that doesn't have a Tier 2 counter-part.
The Tier 2 Talwar (T2T) would use probing skills but instead of a launcher (though a launcher could be used) an Emitter would be fitted to a high slot. The purpose of this emitter would be to send out a Tacheon burst (borrowing from Star Trek) that would 'paint' all cloaked ships within the range of it's "burst". This would impact ALL cloaked ships within the pulses range.
As far as skill requirements and what should be brought into factor: Range Finding & Pinpointing make sense. A new eWar skill should be in order I would think. Also, the emitter would have a cool down based upon the range requested. If firing a 32 AU range then the cool down could be as high as 5 minutes but compared to a range of 4 AU with a cool down of 45 seconds.
The skills could also impact whether the T2T is able to warp directly to the target or do they only get within 1 AU and are required to use dScan from there. It would make sense to use these in tandem with a ship utilizing Combat Scanner Probes. This would bring a "cat & mouse" game to cloaked vessels and provide a tier 2 hull for those left out tier 1 destroyer hulls.
I'm looking forward to the feedback & discussion.
Far too complicated. Something simpler: Make those hunter-killer ships able to see cloaked ships as a role bonus, but only when using d-scan. Also, the sensor strength of the cloaked ships is vastly amplified when "seen" this way, so in most cases a hunter can't just probe a cloaked ship down, but the pilot knows when and where cloaked ships are in a system.
Now you just give those hunter-killer ships the ability to use a cov-ops cloak and you have your u-boat on u-boat action. If this means I could get a T2 Corax, all the better. (I mean the ship already looks like a submarine, so why not go all the way?)
|
Ren Coursa
Rapid Withdrawal
8
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Posted - 2014.04.24 10:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Samuel Miller wrote:I should start by saying that I am a cloaky pilot. I love my stealth bomber and cloaky hauler. There are times though that I feel it seems a bit overpowered.
To explain a possible solution i will use existing game mechanics to try and paint a possible solution.
Each race has 2 Tier 1 Destroyers but only 1 of the Tier 1 Hulls are used as the Interdictor. In the case of Minmatar you have the Talwar that doesn't have a Tier 2 counter-part.
The Tier 2 Talwar (T2T) would use probing skills but instead of a launcher (though a launcher could be used) an Emitter would be fitted to a high slot. The purpose of this emitter would be to send out a Tacheon burst (borrowing from Star Trek) that would 'paint' all cloaked ships within the range of it's "burst". This would impact ALL cloaked ships within the pulses range.
As far as skill requirements and what should be brought into factor: Range Finding & Pinpointing make sense. A new eWar skill should be in order I would think. Also, the emitter would have a cool down based upon the range requested. If firing a 32 AU range then the cool down could be as high as 5 minutes but compared to a range of 4 AU with a cool down of 45 seconds.
The skills could also impact whether the T2T is able to warp directly to the target or do they only get within 1 AU and are required to use dScan from there. It would make sense to use these in tandem with a ship utilizing Combat Scanner Probes. This would bring a "cat & mouse" game to cloaked vessels and provide a tier 2 hull for those left out tier 1 destroyer hulls.
I'm looking forward to the feedback & discussion. Far too complicated. Something simpler: Make those hunter-killer ships able to see cloaked ships as a role bonus, but only when using d-scan. Also, the sensor strength of the cloaked ships is vastly amplified when "seen" this way, so in most cases a hunter can't just probe a cloaked ship down, but the pilot knows when and where cloaked ships are in a system. Now you just give those hunter-killer ships the ability to use a cov-ops cloak and you have your u-boat on u-boat action. If this means I could get a T2 Corax, all the better. (I mean the ship already looks like a submarine, so why not go all the way?)
How would there be action if they can only see them in d-scan? Would they be able to target then through d-scan or what? |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
674
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Posted - 2014.04.24 11:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Restrict it to on grid (at most), the idea might work better that way.
Catch those hidden warp in providers.
Leaves the intel battle of local and "is he afk or not" alone but creates a nifty new mechanic.
Edit: Gate cloaks could (and should) be handled differently. Or, like MTU/Depots the mod wont work within Xkm of a gate - "interference" or "feedback" or something. |
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
167
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Posted - 2014.04.24 11:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
now how do I go about requesting a lock of a 'frequently mentioned idea thread'? oh yeah - the report button. For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it WILL be. |
Jint Hikaru
Truly Transdimensional The Nova Foundry
1196
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Posted - 2014.04.24 11:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
You've just made a nice big red 'I Win' button for gate camps..... and ruined Wormholes in one poorly thought out swoop.
High-Five!
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Samuel Miller
Scorpion Ventures Rim Worlds Protectorate
0
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Posted - 2014.04.24 13:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Restrict it to on grid (at most), the idea might work better that way.
Catch those hidden warp in providers.
Leaves the intel battle of local and "is he afk or not" alone but creates a nifty new mechanic.
Edit: Gate cloaks could (and should) be handled differently. Or, like MTU/Depots the mod wont work within Xkm of a gate - "interference" or "feedback" or something.
I didn't mention it in my post because I didn't think of it but I never intended this to be used near gates or Wormholes. The idea would be to use this only for Cloaking Modules |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
389
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Posted - 2014.04.24 13:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
My view on this would be that you could only scan for a cloaky ship that is active i.e. moving or running an active mod. the ship would need to be doing *something* that would generate a signature that could be detected. Much like if a modern Astute class attack sub sat on the seabed and went silent there is no wsay you would find it.
even then I think it would need at least two specialized dessies fitted with the scanner mod to triangulate the position, by means of one using an onboard mod, but needing remote mod targeted on them also to model the feeding of information from the second scanner.
This would allow for someone to still sit AFK for psychological impact, but also allow the ship to be hunted when it goes active, giving good reason for fleets to now employ an actively hunting destroyer screen. |
Samuel Miller
Scorpion Ventures Rim Worlds Protectorate
0
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Posted - 2014.04.24 13:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:now how do I go about requesting a lock of a 'frequently mentioned idea thread'? oh yeah - the report button.
I wasn't intending this idea to be used to find AFK cloakies. Honestly I wasn't even aware that was an issue. I'm going off the premise of an available hull and another role that could be filled. |
Samuel Miller
Scorpion Ventures Rim Worlds Protectorate
0
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Posted - 2014.04.24 13:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:My view on this would be that you could only scan for a cloaky ship that is active i.e. moving or running an active mod. the ship would need to be doing *something* that would generate a signature that could be detected. Much like if a modern Astute class attack sub sat on the seabed and went silent there is no wsay you would find it.
even then I think it would need at least two specialized dessies fitted with the scanner mod to triangulate the position, by means of one using an onboard mod, but needing remote mod targeted on them also to model the feeding of information from the second scanner.
This would allow for someone to still sit AFK for psychological impact, but also allow the ship to be hunted when it goes active, giving good reason for fleets to now employ an actively hunting destroyer screen.
I like this idea ...
When it comes to active modules ... you'd want to leave out the Covert Cloak ... what do you think of saying the tier 2 version of the cloaking module is undetectable but all other versions would have a degree of being found. |
Dassco Seawolf
Scorpion Ventures Rim Worlds Protectorate
1
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Posted - 2014.04.24 13:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Its a great concept Sam, it really is, and you have my vote. Though personally I would like it to be expanded to being able to finding the AFK cloaky pilots. Think if someone wants to terrorize a system, they should have to be active in it. Moving around, whatever. Like AFK miners, come back to find you have been sent back from where you came from because you choose to be stupid and be AFK in game. But hey, some can dream, others will cry they cant go afk in a system, blah blah blah. in the end, were all just pixels on the screen.
Fly safe everyone. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2136
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Posted - 2014.04.24 13:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Posting in a "Nerf AFK Cloaking" thread.
Also reporting it for being redundant. |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1507
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Posted - 2014.04.24 14:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
I will post my usual stuff in these sorts of threads:
Leave all these bad ideas about cloaking/anti-cloaking out of wormhole space. We don't want it No trolling please |
Alundil
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
468
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 14:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:I will post my usual stuff in these sorts of threads:
Leave all these bad ideas about cloaking/anti-cloaking out of wormhole space. We don't want it This.
And the module as proposed (and all others tbqfh) break wormhole space and mechanics. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
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