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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 28 post(s) |
Mike Whiite
Progressive State
3
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Posted - 2011.11.23 12:46:00 -
[331] - Quote
Zyrbalax III wrote:Mike Whiite wrote: ...stuff...
After every downtime a PACO owner should get a massage
...stuff...
+1 This would make me much more inclined to invest in a POCO (or even a PACO)
Archh how stupid of me: edited |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
391
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Posted - 2011.11.24 13:23:00 -
[332] - Quote
Anyone know whether they've fixed the tariff rates between the tiers on Sisi yet? My numbers from Nov 18th were:
Quote:P0 - Everything was 0.50 ISK/u for import.
P1 - All 0.05 ISK/u for import except for:
Oxygen - 0.10 import Water - 0.10 import
P2 - all 9.00 ISK/u for import
P3 - all 600 ISK/u for import
P4 - all 50k ISK/u for import.
Tariffs on P1 are even lower on Sisi then they are on TQ (and they were already very low on TQ compared to P3/P4 tariffs).
Existing tariff import rates (as of Nov 18th) on Sisi and their approximate tax burden on the resulting product:
P0: 0.50 = 10-25% tax rate (vs 1.0-2.5% on TQ) P1: 0.05 = 0.0067-0.025% tax rate (vs 0.0507-0.19% on TQ) P2: 9.00 = 0.0818-0.20% tax rate (vs 0.0409-0.10% on TQ) P3: 600 = 0.667-1.82% tax rate (vs 0.333-0.909% on TQ) P4: 50k = 3.125-6.25% tax rate (vs 1.56-3.125% on TQ)
Double those amounts for export fees.
Reference: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=411040#post411040 |
nardaq
Orion Expeditions
0
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Posted - 2011.11.24 15:11:00 -
[333] - Quote
Quote:And remember, if you are worried about the Customs Office Gantry Blueprint being expensive on the market, you can prepare by getting the required Loyalty Points in advance.
* You need 3000 LP with a factional warfare militia and 10,000,000.00 ISK * Or, you need 6000 LP with CONCORD and 20,000,000.00 ISK
erm.... with the current isk/LP raito of 500 its not realy much getting lowered dont u think?
just put the BPO on the market for the same price of course to make it for us WAY easier for all of us
and add a 2min self destruct timer on the NPC CO to saves us hitting 10M points and and a lot of time |
Certis
Wormhole Exploration Squad
1
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Posted - 2011.11.25 00:27:00 -
[334] - Quote
Rommiee wrote:To quote from the latest blog GÇ£One thing that really stood out was your concern for the transition period when all customs offices will be removedGÇ¥
What about the other 80-odd pages of concerns ?
The GÇ£NewGÇ¥ CCP is supposed to be listening to the players concerns, if you are still bringing this crap in, then obviously you are not.
My thoughts entirely - way to go CCP - you gonna loose even more subscribers if you bring in this crap - including me! FFS stop moving the damn goal posts. |
Certis
Wormhole Exploration Squad
1
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Posted - 2011.11.25 00:30:00 -
[335] - Quote
Ariane VoxDei wrote:Hard to be even remotely constructive about it after that blog/blurb.
Essentially ignored all concerns and really weak copout on prices, which you were also warned about. Spending LP is another (missed) opportunity cost. So the BPC alone will be 80M+ if from concord, and a much less insane 20M+ from FW shops, clearly those numbers dictate that price will be set by the FW shop - just like they set the price for faction battleships. Slap on another roughly 32M in P4 mats, for absolute minimum of 52M. Wont stay there though. Taxes will be yanked up in non-sov space, with the usual "why tax less than NPC when people have no other options" and taxes on NPC-PO are apparently still being doubled, since you seem to have wilfully ignored the lessons from the "11%" story that Eris was scapegoated for.
We dont need more "might makes right, so eat **** or die".
This will still practically kill lowsec PI, fruitlessly extratax hisec PI, effectively taxexempt nullsec PI and drive up PI prices a bit more as taxes and POCO losses (those not behind cynowalls) need to be amortized. As for WH PI, that is going to be a particularly nasty nerf, but I dont have numbers on their share of the PI market to guestimate how big a pricehike that will generate.
Couldn't agree with you more - once again way to go CCP - even more subscribers out the window - including me! FFS stop moving the damn goal posts and shooting yourself in the foot. |
Certis
Wormhole Exploration Squad
1
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Posted - 2011.11.25 00:40:00 -
[336] - Quote
So PI is dead - now when do I get a refund of all my skill points and the ISK initially spent developing my low sec PI in the first place?
Scrap it, Pay up or loose this subscriber and a whole bunch more. |
XPhantasimX
Awesome Sauce Industries Team America World Police
0
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Posted - 2011.11.25 01:27:00 -
[337] - Quote
Not that this has anything to do with the customs office, but i would really like to see some way of moving the extractor heads all at once if desired. its a real pain to reposition all the heads individually. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
391
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Posted - 2011.11.25 03:23:00 -
[338] - Quote
PI tariffs have changed on Sisi today. Import tariffs are now (for hi-sec CONCORD stations with 10.0% setting):
P0 - 0.25 ISK/u P1 - 25.00 ISK/u (including Oxygen & Water), (100x P0 tariff) P2 - 450 ISK/u (18x P1 tariff) P3 - 3500 ISK/u (7.78x P2 tariff) P4 - 67500 ISK/u (19.28x P3 tariff)
For the most part, these make sense now (except for P2 which should have been 16x the P1 tariff since it always takes 16 P1 to make P2, and P4 is a bit more expensive compared to P3 then it should be).
You'll definitely want to go from P1->P3 where possible or P2->P4 where possible to avoid an import/export tariff on the intermediate stage of processing.
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce
86
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Posted - 2011.11.25 03:31:00 -
[339] - Quote
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice
Customs Office Wiki is up |
uglybass
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
5
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Posted - 2011.11.25 07:51:00 -
[340] - Quote
Atleast in low-sec interbus should rebuild their tax offices if the planet is unoccupied for longer than 24h. Better yet make them sent fleet to deploy tax offices.... :P
I think the tax is ridicilously high atm, with 100% tax you cant make any profit ? I can see how low-sec becomes wasteland in PI aspect
can you import/export stuff when office is in reinforced mode? if you can maybe send mail to those who have plants on that planet aswell so they can atleast try to salvage something... |
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
49
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Posted - 2011.11.25 10:24:00 -
[341] - Quote
Thanks for listening to us CCP. Keep up the good work |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
164
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Posted - 2011.11.25 10:32:00 -
[342] - Quote
Salpun wrote:http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice
Customs Office Wiki is up Those numbers make a lot more sense.
Thanks! |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
245
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Posted - 2011.11.25 10:57:00 -
[343] - Quote
A somewhat more arcane request:
Could we please get some good story background on the Interbus customs offices? My alliance has been discussing whether we want to shoot down Interbus COs (they're neutral, why would we?), and even whether we consider others shooting Interbus COs as piracy (they're shooting corp property of a peaceful entity, so yes; CONCORD doesn't care at all, so no?)
It's a lovely discussion, but there's awfully little backstory on the issue, so it's not easy to actually discuss the ethical ramifications. *Some* background would be nice :-) |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
395
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 13:07:00 -
[344] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Salpun wrote:http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice
Customs Office Wiki is up Those numbers make a lot more sense. Thanks!
Agreed, but I'm still not sure that, using those numbers, that you should be able to set the POCO tariff rates any higher then 20% (maybe 30% to drive potential player conflict).
Right now - as designed, POCOs are very risky from the standpoint of a PI colony owner. Someone can charge you very little, or they can jack your tariff rate up to 10x what it would be in hi-sec. That means you have almost zero ability to plan if you try to use a planet with a POCO owned by anyone other then a corp/alliance member. Third party POCO owners can too easily screw you over by playing around with the tariff slider (moving it from 10% up to 100%).
If the tariff slider was limited to 20% as a maximum value - then the worst case scenario (excluding complete denial) with a POCO becomes a more limited issue of "well, you might have to pay 2x the tariff rate as you would in hi-sec". Which would still be a "grr" moment, but it wouldn't completely put your goods out of the running as being economically viable. It would limit the potential damage for using a 3rd party POCO that isn't corp/alliance owned.
(Margins on existing PI tiers is traditionally between 8-20% for converting a lower tier PI into higher tier PI.) |
Dr Mercy
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
41
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Posted - 2011.11.25 15:37:00 -
[345] - Quote
Seems like they've gone with the upper end of the values.
Quote:Taxation
*Tax % is taken off the material's taxable value. **This value is set by CCP and is based off the market values in November 2011 **Import is always half of export tax
*The taxable value are the same for all items in the same tier **Advanced Commodities: 1,350,000.00 ISK **Specialized Commodities: 70,000.00 ISK **Refined Commodities: 9,000.00 ISK **Basic commodities: 500.00 ISK **Planet Resources: 5,00 ISK
Tested just now on Sisi. Imported and exported on a highsec CO (10% tariff rate). Import cost was at 5%, export was at 10%. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
167
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Posted - 2011.11.25 15:53:00 -
[346] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Agreed, but I'm still not sure that, using those numbers, that you should be able to set the POCO tariff rates any higher then 20% (maybe 30% to drive potential player conflict). On the other hand, if you set a max of 30%, you can be sure 90% of the POCOs will be set at that rate. If you don't limit it, people will have to find their own balance in a more emergent way.
CCP can always restrict it later if it becomes a problem.
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Jiska Ensa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
27
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Posted - 2011.11.25 16:04:00 -
[347] - Quote
Is is possible to considerably drop the HP of wh/low/null NPC customs offices? I run a modest operation in a wormhole and don't entirely look forward to spending 12 hours a day bashing all 10 or so offices we have in our system.
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Dr Mercy
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
41
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Posted - 2011.11.25 17:16:00 -
[348] - Quote
Jiska Ensa wrote:Is is possible to considerably drop the HP of wh/low/null NPC customs offices? I run a modest operation in a wormhole and don't entirely look forward to spending 12 hours a day bashing all 10 or so offices we have in our system.
Use dreads then. and the 17% tax really isn't that high for the lowends for extraction and POS fuels. Just replace the few you use for high ends, if you have any. |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.11.25 17:53:00 -
[349] - Quote
Jiska Ensa wrote:Is is possible to considerably drop the HP of wh/low/null NPC customs offices? I run a modest operation in a wormhole and don't entirely look forward to spending 12 hours a day bashing all 10 or so offices we have in our system.
Are you just pretending to be thick, or are you a hereditary blond and so naturally dumb. FFS give your head a shake then go play preferably in another MMOG. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
331
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Posted - 2011.11.25 22:32:00 -
[350] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Thanks for listening to us CCP. Keep up the good work
Uhm, still horking up low sec and WHs, not seeing so much listening as committing to a bad idea and ignoring.
Issler |
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Zleon Leigh
30
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Posted - 2011.11.26 00:47:00 -
[351] - Quote
So are the Interbus CO's going to be pinata's? Does all my PI that I won't be able to get to right after DT become party prizes for ******* CO griefers?
Fail CCP - bullshit fail.
Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
332
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Posted - 2011.11.26 01:54:00 -
[352] - Quote
Zleon Leigh wrote:So are the Interbus CO's going to be pinata's? Does all my PI that I won't be able to get to right after DT become party prizes for ******* CO griefers?
Fail CCP - bullshit fail.
"sarcasm"
No!! This is awesome!! This will make PI and low sec awesome!!! And clearly CCP is not turning major aspects of the economy over to interns or fresh outs with no game development or Eve experience! These guys are geniuses and pros!! Oh, and ruining the PI supply chain couldn't be anything to worry about, CCP would have years to get back around to fixing this is its all wrong because they "will be watching it closely"!
"/sarcasm"
Yes, CCP has put someone in charge of PI that clearly has no concept of the mechanism and side effects of this craptastic "feature".
My theory is the person that came up with this has never done anything in the game industry that succeeded. But in the new CCP there seems to be a very low bar for success.
Issler
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pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
83
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Posted - 2011.11.26 01:58:00 -
[353] - Quote
Interbus COs do not drop loot. They are not pinatas.
They're also intended to be temporary holdovers until people place POCOs, which have a reinforcement timer. You want to do PI in lowsec? Use the Interbus, get some friends and drop a POCO, or use someone else's POCO.
Player-driven economy. |
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
35
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Posted - 2011.11.26 07:47:00 -
[354] - Quote
Zyrbalax III wrote: Can we now build PI structures in someone else's sov nullsec?
This is a question I would want an answer to. |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
10
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Posted - 2011.11.26 08:23:00 -
[355] - Quote
pmchem wrote:Interbus COs do not drop loot. They are not pinatas.
They're also intended to be temporary holdovers until people place POCOs, which have a reinforcement timer. You want to do PI in lowsec? Use the Interbus, get some friends and drop a POCO, or use someone else's POCO.
Player-driven economy.
More like punching dummies, I'd say. It remains to be seen how long the life expectancy of a POCO will be.
I like the player-driven economy part of it. but if it isn't reasonably economical to place these, we could see a pronounced shift in economic power to the likes of the Goonwaffe, which would be good for you, but bad for the game, and thus ultimately bad for you as well.
A lot depends on what you guys end up doing in reality. I won't be blaming you guys if it all goes to Hek in a handbasket. You guys are part of the game, and whatever behavior emerges from this, emerges from this.
Eliminating the ability to restrict access, making BPCs more affordable/accessible, introducing it more gradually -- anything that makes it less likely that Goonswarm or any other large group (you guys just have the good name) actually ends up with an effective losec PI monopoly, would make this a lot less risky as a new feature.
Aside from the risk of totally mangling the economy and balance of power between large and small, the real thing that annoys me is not being able to launch these for myself, rather than for my corp. I should be able to do a little side venture, without dragging my corp into it. Then if it works out, I can pitch doing it with corp backing on a grander scale. If they get knocked down whack-a-mole style, then I eat the loss, with any earnings to console me.
I might still have a scout or two try putting up some of these in losec just to learn how they work out. Since I'm presently wormhole-based, I'll be dealing with that set of issues.
Any bets on how long until the last Interbus CO disappears from losec? I really have no idea, myself, but I'd love to see the data on that, the number of POCO's put up, killed, average life, average time a planet goes without a CO, etc. |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.11.26 11:32:00 -
[356] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Zleon Leigh wrote:So are the Interbus CO's going to be pinata's? Does all my PI that I won't be able to get to right after DT become party prizes for ******* CO griefers?
Fail CCP - bullshit fail.
"sarcasm" No!! This is awesome!! This will make PI and low sec awesome!!! And clearly CCP is not turning major aspects of the economy over to interns or fresh outs with no game development or Eve experience! These guys are geniuses and pros!! Oh, and ruining the PI supply chain couldn't be anything to worry about, CCP would have years to get back around to fixing this is its all wrong because they "will be watching it closely"! "/sarcasm" Yes, CCP has put someone in charge of PI that clearly has no concept of the mechanism and side effects of this craptastic "feature". My theory is the person that came up with this has never done anything in the game industry that succeeded. But in the new CCP there seems to be a very low bar for success. Issler
It's still amazing in the current state of the world economy how CCP still risk pis**ng off their "paying" customer base with poorly concieved ideas, yet it still gets rolled out despite their known history of taking years to fix stuff that is still in the game which is broken all because the game model is greater than their capacity to understand it any more. It has totally gotten away from them.
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
170
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Posted - 2011.11.26 11:34:00 -
[357] - Quote
ZaBob wrote:More like punching dummies, I'd say. It remains to be seen how long the life expectancy of a POCO will be. This is going to be a hard one to find out. Depending on whose POCO it is, who else lives in the area, their relationships, and how previous fights have gone, it can be anything from 24 hours to months and years. Towers usually last a long time, but they are both harder to attack, and more discreet. POCOs are visible on the overview from the entire system.
Quote:I like the player-driven economy part of it. but if it isn't reasonably economical to place these, we could see a pronounced shift in economic power to the likes of the Goonwaffe, which would be good for you, but bad for the game, and thus ultimately bad for you as well. Unlikely. Shooting them is boring enough that 0.0 alliances won't travel long distances to do it. If it takes an hour to get there, 5 minutes shooting, and another hour to get home, nobody is going to bother. Especially when 10 guys can quickly reinforce your POCO the next day and force you to do it all again.
Control will probably go to the dominant entities in each area. That's going to be strong pirate groups, FW groups, and the occasional strong highsec/antipirate group (when I say group, I mean either single corp, alliance, or coalition). But the low defenses mean you need to live near your POCOs to make sure you can defend them, especially if they get attacked often.
Quote:the real thing that annoys me is not being able to launch these for myself, rather than for my corp. I should be able to do a little side venture, without dragging my corp into it. It takes less than a day to train a new char to anchor POCOs, including corp management and hauler skills. Go for it
Quote:Any bets on how long until the last Interbus CO disappears from losec? I really have no idea, myself, but I'd love to see the data on that, the number of POCO's put up, killed, average life, average time a planet goes without a CO, etc. People anchoring POCOs in their home area have a strong incentive to either cover all planets, or make sure they don't have NPC COs on them. So those will die over the next month or two. In isolated areas with no activity, they'll probably last a year or more. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
171
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Posted - 2011.11.26 13:53:00 -
[358] - Quote
Interbus COs on Sisi give killmails, but the damage on them is 0.
I'm not sure what's the point of those mails. NPCs have never given killmails before. Is this intended? I suspect any kb will give them a zero value anyway, but it's a bit silly to have them. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
46
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Posted - 2011.11.26 14:37:00 -
[359] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Interbus COs on Sisi give killmails, but the damage on them is 0.
I'm not sure what's the point of those mails. NPCs have never given killmails before. Is this intended? I suspect any kb will give them a zero value anyway, but it's a bit silly to have them.
Yep that's a known bug, it probably won't make the cut for the initial crucible rollout but should be fixed shortly after. CCP Nullarbor | Exotic Dancer (and occasional programmer) |
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
171
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Posted - 2011.11.26 15:00:00 -
[360] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Jack Dant wrote:Interbus COs on Sisi give killmails, but the damage on them is 0.
I'm not sure what's the point of those mails. NPCs have never given killmails before. Is this intended? I suspect any kb will give them a zero value anyway, but it's a bit silly to have them. Yep that's a known bug, it probably won't make the cut for the initial crucible rollout but should be fixed shortly after. Thanks for the reply.
It'll be a shame if you don't get the fix in before release. Many, many of those "invalid" mails will be generated over the first few days. Once the bug gets fixed, they will become an anomaly on killboards. I wouldn't put it past some of us to make sure we get one as a "collector's killmail" |
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