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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 32 post(s) |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1497
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:09:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Peter Powers wrote:ok, so now it is shiny and better looking and all, but uhm, it still seems to lack (or i did misread the post) one feature that i know me (and others) have been asking for in the past.
What about bulk-creating-jobs?
when i have 10 Scorch M BPC, then doing the same clicking (well i guess dragging now) etc 10 times is *extremly* annoying, so can we please have an option to clone jobs? can this dragging, clicking thing please be a template, and we can create 10 jobs without doing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?
regards, PP The idea is that the system will remember all settings for a blueprint, so if you set up 1 Scorch M BPC, all subsequent blueprints of this type will default to the last submitted job settings. So you set up the first blueprint, then just hit submit on the subsequent BPCs because everything is set to go.
This is going to be quite the improvement. Especially if translated across alts somehow in corp jobs. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
As someone with a bunch of PI planets, i'm really looking forward to seeing how they reduce clicks through UI improvement, if this blog is to be any indication. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
645
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:10:00 -
[93] - Quote
Theng Hofses wrote:The ability to batch copy jobs and invention jobs would be a HUGE step forward and fundamentally fix the click fest problem that copy, invention and manufacturing is today. With what is see here you are putting a pretty band aid on the problem for small scale industrialists. I am not convinced based on what you have showed here is that you have fixed the issues when you do industry on an industrial scale. Think of it this way: How can I make the life easier of someone who builds several product lines of say thousands of identical T2 items (T2 Sentries for example) from scratch via invention a week? Does this really solve the issue?
We have been playing around with the idea of batch installing jobs, however the speed of submitting new jobs or resubmitting old ones may mean we just don't need the added complexity that batching creates. When this hits SiSi we'll be looking for feedback on exactly this. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
650
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:13:00 -
[94] - Quote
I still think some of the activity icons are confusing and unclear. But it seems they aren't too bad since I did guess them all correctly in the previous blog.
Having persistent settings is a huge time saver, especially for invention. Many thanks.
I'm really interested in the quality metric that is now show. Previously, we really had no way of knowing what would effect our invention runs and how. I'd like to know more about what goes into that metric and how that quality number is determined.
I'm looking forward to trying this out on Sisi. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
645
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:With the comparison of different installation locations, how much lag can we expect? Currently, it is a major pain in the back to open the market window or Character info window (at least for me), because it causes the game to stutter and freeze until all the data (or whatever it does) is loaded. Can I expect this to be the case in the new Indu window as well?
This depends a little bit on your internet connection, swapping activity or blueprint will require a remote call in the background, however you no longer need to click a fetch quote button and we are optimizing this checking as much as possible to keep the interface snappy. A lot of the validation is now performed client side to help achieve this. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Uncle Shrimpa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:17:00 -
[96] - Quote
3/6 due blogs down and so far nothing much more than polishing a turd
Those last 3 dev blogs better knock our socks off
So, I have 6 Titans in some sort of build process, 3 in cooker and 3 going thru components
If I drag a Titan BPO to the UI window, it will show as all components in build, will it allow me to seperate out by POS or certain station
For example in pos 1 I have an Avatar in components and pos 2 I have an Erebus in components, pos 3 I want to start an avatar, will it recognize just the minerals and build jobs of that pos only or will it do a collective on all corp jobs either by system or region etc?
To expand on weasellior question, if I have full Titans worth of minerals in CSAA and I have 6 turret hard point BPO in a CAA, will it automatically build out for the Titan I put in the window of the industry UI? Do I still have to manually move minerals from CSAA to CAA 1 mil m3 at a time to start each job separately? Or will it know where I got the minerals after the first job or based on where the Titan BPO is located and get minerals from there? Will it treat the pos as one big storage? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21360
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:17:00 -
[97] - Quote
This looks like a definite improvement.
HoweverGǪ
GǪI still maintain that it is still blueprint focused when it should be work-flow focused. The improvements mainly touch information discoverability and visualisation, and providing all the same old settings in a single work sheet. You still have to go through the same motions as before though,
Instead of picking a blueprint and selecting what you want to do with it, the process should be selecting what you want to do and then picking the blueprints you want to do it with. By reasoning for this is that, with or without the functionality being in the game, people work in batches: GÇ£today, I'm going to put these 5 BPCs into the manufacturing queueGÇ¥; GÇ£now, I'm going to invent from these 10 BPCs (and in 75 minutes, I'll do the same from 10 new ones)GÇ¥.
By the look of it, this new UI sill requires me to pick the blueprints, one by one, and setting each up. Yes, keeping the settings from the last time a job was done will help, but it means I will have to fiddle every time I need to do something new. Yesterday, I made copies of the BPO; today, I'm going to manufacture the T1 items that go into the T2 procution; tomorrow, I'll ME-research it a bit more. Will all of these different uses be remembered for each blueprint, or will I have to set them up every time? It still seems to be a matter of Pick (single) BP GåÆ pick activity GåÆ pick installation GåÆ check and accept GåÆ repeat.
I feel a better method would be to use a funnel method to go from large to small: first, I pick the installation where all my materials are. Then I pick an activity, and the defaults for this activity are applied. Then I shift-select 20 blueprints and dump them into the installation+activity combo I've picked GÇö if I want something special, I can adjust them individually, but the defaults will probably work sinceGǪ well they are my defaults. Then it's just a matter of clicking the GÇ£do it!GÇ¥ button (if all requirements come up as green) and go to bed. This would make the process Pick installation GåÆ pick activity GåÆ pick all BPs GåÆ accept. No repeat needed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
645
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:20:00 -
[98] - Quote
Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage?
This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:21:00 -
[99] - Quote
This looks like it will be a fantastic upgrade.
As someone who does EVERYTHING with just this character (one account, one character, no alts... on purpose), anything that makes operations more streamlined and understandable is very welcomed.
I was particularly happy to read you're planning a notification for when a job is finished. That will be a big plus for someone who runs Jump Clones and could be (literally) on the other side of space when the job is finished. |
Sturmwolke
553
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:26:00 -
[100] - Quote
One more thing. Consider introducing an additional "BPC Block/Packet" option to make buying/selling/manufacturing from BPCs less painful for items with multiple parts requirements. Similar to the Fuel Block concept. Random example.
Current packaged capital production requires : 1) Capital ship BPC 2) Capital part BPC
Manufacturing involves 2 stages, first assembling the capital parts and then combining them in the final capital ship manufacture. While the above is valid for certain situations i.e where you've already got certain parts in stock etc, it isn't valid for a full fresh build from scratch.
The main aim for the BPC Block/Packet is to reduce this to 1 single stage - just listing the total minerals/materials required to build it (all parts included).
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7077
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:27:00 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage? This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable. :argh:
you don't know how irritating it is trying to fit the exact right proportion of minerals in a component assembly array to let you get a nice 100-run component job, you've got to move each mineral individually and it is a pain in the ass
please to be increasing the capacity of the component assembly array to get around that tia Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21363
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:31:00 -
[102] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage? This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable. :argh: you don't know how irritating it is trying to fit the exact right proportion of minerals in a component assembly array to let you get a nice 100-run component job, you've got to move each mineral individually and it is a pain in the ass please to be increasing the capacity of the component assembly array to get around that tia GǪor, even better, make POSes work as a cohesive unit with a single storage capacity comprised of all the modules activated at the POS. Same with all other capabilities you can attach to it.
Ok, so slots are going away, but let's use them as an example anyway: instead of getting a separate lab with 3 ME slots at 25k m-¦, we should simply get +3 slots and +25k to what's already there so that the POS, as a single installation, now has (say) 12 slots at a total storage space of 475k. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Sturmwolke
553
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:32:00 -
[103] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:Sturmwolke wrote:2) See http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpoWell known to those involved in manufacturing and research. See those ME/PE projections? It should be default ingame. Jercy's data is essential to most everyone who touches the spreadsheet side of EVE. I don't see that going away. It's not meant to replace intensive spreadsheet references. Mostly, it's used for quick estimations than anything in detail. Having a reasonable base for rough estimations ingmae is very useful for many players out there. You run your spreadsheets after, out of game.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7077
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:33:00 -
[104] - Quote
Tippia wrote: GǪor, even better, make POSes work as a cohesive unit with a single storage capacity comprised of all the modules activated at the POS. Same with all other capabilities you can attach to it..
that would be preferable but it's what they just said wasn't happening cause it requires reworking pos code :v:
a volume increase though hopefully is possible! Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
436
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:34:00 -
[105] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:With the comparison of different installation locations, how much lag can we expect? Currently, it is a major pain in the back to open the market window or Character info window (at least for me), because it causes the game to stutter and freeze until all the data (or whatever it does) is loaded. Can I expect this to be the case in the new Indu window as well? This depends a little bit on your internet connection, swapping activity or blueprint will require a remote call in the background, however you no longer need to click a fetch quote button and we are optimizing this checking as much as possible to keep the interface snappy. A lot of the validation is now performed client side to help achieve this.
Of course it does, and you cannot expect wonders with a modem. But I don't have a modem and my connection is never fully utilized when I open the market or char windows. Neither the download bandwidth, nor the upload bandwidth; ping and package loss also don't show apparent issues. |
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
84
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:35:00 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Theng Hofses wrote:The ability to batch copy jobs and invention jobs would be a HUGE step forward and fundamentally fix the click fest problem that copy, invention and manufacturing is today. With what is see here you are putting a pretty band aid on the problem for small scale industrialists. I am not convinced based on what you have showed here is that you have fixed the issues when you do industry on an industrial scale. Think of it this way: How can I make the life easier of someone who builds several product lines of say thousands of identical T2 items (T2 Sentries for example) from scratch via invention a week? Does this really solve the issue? We have been playing around with the idea of batch installing jobs, however the speed of submitting new jobs or resubmitting old ones may mean we just don't need the added complexity that batching creates. When this hits SiSi we'll be looking for feedback on exactly this.
Here's your feedback - most forms of industry have multiple runs. Ships, modules, ammo etc - all of them come together to igve me stuff that can take at least a sizeable number of hours, days or even weeks.
Invention doesn't have this.
Every job has it's length and that's that. While this is okay for people inventing the next marauder, invention jobs that last a single hour or so leave many wasted hours and have a god awful time requirement to get the most out of what you're doing - completely backward compared to the entire rest of the industry.
Unless you REALLY intend all industry to be semi-passive except for small scale invention jobs, it'd be nice to include batch manufacture and research. |
Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
86
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:36:00 -
[107] - Quote
As CCP Arrow asked for it, I'll add feedback even though I don't have anything earth shaking to add....
I do want to add voice to some things already asked for.
1. Some type of number separator for ease of reading.
2. The ability to see what stock will remain before starting the job. If you need 100 trit and you have it that is great. I would like to be able to see how much trit I will have left. Perhaps a tool tip where you could hover over to see remaining stock?
Overall I am very excited over the UI changes. This is the first update I have been looking forward to for the content of the update opposed to just the opportunities to exploit the market as the result of changes caused by an update.
This is also the first time I have ever desired to install the test server to see what is on the way.
Awesome job CCP. While eve should always be about spaceships, it's nice to see some attention shown to those who build them! |
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:37:00 -
[108] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Tippia wrote: GǪor, even better, make POSes work as a cohesive unit with a single storage capacity comprised of all the modules activated at the POS. Same with all other capabilities you can attach to it..
that would be preferable but it's what they just said wasn't happening cause it requires reworking pos code :v: a volume increase though hopefully is possible!
1 upping volume increase. Mineral tetris is not fun.
On a related note: **** YOU JUMP BRIDGE ARRAY |
Vesan Terakol
Sad Face Enterprises
61
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:38:00 -
[109] - Quote
A quick question about the interface
Would there be an indicator of YOUR remaining production/science slots? i believe this will be very useful, but i'm missing it in the mock up.
Outside of that, pretty impressive, can't wait to put it in action. Can we get it before the actual expansion? It will save so many people so much pain. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4259327 - more suff in the Zero.Zero collection |
H3llHound
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
26
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:38:00 -
[110] - Quote
You should have another look at that graphic. Invention has a full circle at 'task to repetitive' |
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Banko Mato
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:39:00 -
[111] - Quote
So far i like the changes in the dev blog, but one of my personal main issues with the current mfg system remains.
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes, you will be able to build using materials and blueprints inside containers in a POS or in a station. The materials and the blueprint however must be in the correct assembly array.
Why is it so hard to allow stuff to be taken from another array/hangar at a POS? I mean requiring BPs and mats to be inside the correct array still forces us to be physically present at the POS every time we need to move stuff between arrays, which imho is totally unnecessary... Just allow source location to be selected amongst all legal arrays/hangars at the POS in question, same to output destination, and make the UI remember those selections.
A simple example how i imagine the "perfect" POS manufacturing setup:
1 source hangar or LSAA X labs Y arrays, distributed across different types (drones/eq,comp)
Now the user can link labs/arrays to source and destination storage (or use the default of the array/lab itself) so that for large enterprises it is possible to centralize input and output into one single hangar/storage, instead of the current hassle. And to be honest, being forced to move insane amounts of mats between dozens of arrays (which each has a laughable small storage space) is the reason that lead me to move all manufacturing besides rigs and drones into a station, not the click-fest of installing jobs.
Storage pooling and flexible input/output locations are at least as important as the reduction in clicks required for a single job!
Oh, and definitely apply the previously mentioned pre-filtering of all optional materials based on the BP in question. Since racial decryptors are tied to racial BPCs, it is utter rubbish to even allow them to be selected for "foreign" target BPCs. And make the UI remember the selected decryptor for a given BPC (based on runs).
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Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
386
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:39:00 -
[112] - Quote
Getting a fuzzy feeling inside.....need to test on sisi, so let us know as soon as it is live. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Tetania
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
45
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:40:00 -
[113] - Quote
I was about to post asking about chaining CSAAs like silos and reactors together to allow assembly arrays to pull minerals from larger storage structures.
I'm now a sad panda.
I second the request to dramatically increase the size of assembly arrays to make the mineral juggling less time consuming. Restrict the allowed contents to only BPs and minerals if you are concerned about possible storage abuses.
Being able to put the minerals for around 1/3 of a titan in it would be great a whole titan would be ideal. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21367
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:40:00 -
[114] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:that would be preferable but it's what they just said wasn't happening cause it requires reworking pos code :v:
a volume increase though hopefully is possible! Sloppy reading. But yes, something needs to be done with the storage limitations in POSes. The only activity that doesn't suffer that much currently is invention and copying since they don't require massive volumes of consumables (and even then, it's just because the number of slots are so low compared to the storage spaceGǪ the hassle of keeping each lab properly stocked is still there).
So just think of it as a +1 for the unified storage notion, and a reminder that other properties could and should be treated the same. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Theng Hofses
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
38
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:42:00 -
[115] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Theng Hofses wrote:The ability to batch copy jobs and invention jobs would be a HUGE step forward and fundamentally fix the click fest problem that copy, invention and manufacturing is today. With what is see here you are putting a pretty band aid on the problem for small scale industrialists. I am not convinced based on what you have showed here is that you have fixed the issues when you do industry on an industrial scale. Think of it this way: How can I make the life easier of someone who builds several product lines of say thousands of identical T2 items (T2 Sentries for example) from scratch via invention a week? Does this really solve the issue? We have been playing around with the idea of batch installing jobs, however the speed of submitting new jobs or resubmitting old ones may mean we just don't need the added complexity that batching creates. When this hits SiSi we'll be looking for feedback on exactly this.
Great. Just to give you a better number for only one product line: Month to date slightly more than 17,000 T2 Sentries built which needed 3,518 copies to be invented, 176 copy runs @ 20 copies each... |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1351
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:45:00 -
[116] - Quote
I remember telling you guys to reduce the clickfest. Looks like you remembered :)
Can't wait to see this on sisi GRRR Goons |
Uncle Shrimpa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:45:00 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Uncle Shrimpa wrote:Will it treat the pos as one big storage? This requires a POS rework and so no this will not happen for the summer release, but we agree that would be preferable.
Then the remote skill is truly a waste now. Before it was used to use a BPO from station in a pos, now that that single thing is taken away it will be impossible to do this currently as you will physically have to be at the pos to deliver or our on build jobs as everything we pretty much do in a CAA requires the size to be much larger. Once you deliver jobs and overfill the array, you have to empty it before you can do everything else, so again, you have to be at the pos, so remote skill is freaking USELESS |
Banko Mato
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:48:00 -
[118] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Weaselior wrote:that would be preferable but it's what they just said wasn't happening cause it requires reworking pos code :v:
a volume increase though hopefully is possible! Sloppy reading. But yes, something needs to be done with the storage limitations in POSes. The only activity that doesn't suffer that much currently is invention and copying since they don't require massive volumes of consumables (and even then, it's just because the number of slots are so low compared to the storage spaceGǪ the hassle of keeping each lab properly stocked is still there). So just think of it as a +1 for the unified storage notion, and a reminder that other properties could and should be treated the same.
In case a completely unified storage system for POSes is out of the question, then at least the could allow us to link arrays/labs/storages much the same way it already works for reactions?
I have no idea how messed up the POS code really is, but can imagine linking of "consumer" modules at a POS might be doable without a complete code rework...
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mkint
1163
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Posted - 2014.04.28 14:51:00 -
[119] - Quote
What's the deal with CCP's obsession with removing labels from icons, and forcing a hover over to actually get useful information? Build requirements as icons is stupid. No matter how familiar you are with the icons themselves, it will never ever ever be as fast as a glance at a written name. It is absolutely impossible to tell at a glance the material requirements without hovering over 11 different icons one at a time. That's called "worse." Even the name of what's being produced is tucked away at the bottom of the window after 4 different completely irrelevant images. Graphics heavy does not make something automatically better, and when a meaningless picture is substituted for useful text, it's automatically worse.
Can I get a text-only version of this new UI? The icons obfuscate useful information rather than provide any. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21369
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 14:55:00 -
[120] - Quote
mkint wrote:What's the deal with CCP's obsession with removing labels from icons, and forcing a hover over to actually get useful information? Build requirements as icons is stupid. No matter how familiar you are with the icons themselves, it will never ever ever be as fast as a glance at a written name. It is absolutely impossible to tell at a glance the material requirements without hovering over 11 different icons one at a time. That's called " worse." Even the name of what's being produced is tucked away at the bottom of the window after 4 different completely irrelevant images. Graphics heavy does not make something automatically better, and when a meaningless picture is substituted for useful text, it's automatically worse. +1
Include text labels for all materials, please. Remember how you had to go back on the pretty but nondescript weapon icons? Same goes here. Immediate recognition > pretty graphics. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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