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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 62 post(s) |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7143
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Posted - 2014.04.29 15:49:00 -
[511] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:adding another voice to the 100 lvl idea - tjis would allow much more flexibility in terms of conversion and create far fewer 'perfect' scenarios, and at the same time reward those who invested additional time to 'market shape' their BPO collection for the purposes of selling bpc's or bpc kits. these people are idiots and should not be rewarded for their idioticy
making the new system more complex and worse in order to handle the changeover - and particularly, demands from people who made dumb choices and want to be rewarded for them - is not a good way to balance. The issue will vanish a week after patch day, never to be heard again if it's just properly ignored. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7143
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 15:50:00 -
[512] - Quote
w/r/t the issue of "old" bpos being worth more than "new" bpos: most of those markets will be glutted with perfect bpos and the new industrialist will just buy one of those instead of researching an npc bought one
that's already the case in supercaps, a researched bpo goes for less than NPC, it is not a real problem Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.04.29 16:14:00 -
[513] - Quote
There are really, really few examples of items where ME100 is worth having over current ME15 or so. If you needed ME100 battleship BPOs to compete in the T1 market, for example, T1 would be as impenetrable as T2 bpo markets. T1 would be only accessible to those who have invested an enormous amount of isk with a really poor ROI.
It shouldn't be this way, Greyscale has got the new ME levels pretty good in my opinion. T1 should be accessible for new industrialists, with highsec guys progressing on to T2 or T3 as they grow and moving to more dangerous space if they want to pursue capitals.
Current ME/PE10 doesn't tie a t1 subcap BPO up for years locking new players out. The proposed transition looks pretty good to me on this level. If a player has an over-researched BPO that was a poor decision to begin with, at least now others won't be tricked into making the same mistake.
TL;DR Good scaling, greyscale. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
154
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 16:42:00 -
[514] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:There are really, really few examples of items where ME100 is worth having over current ME15 or so. If you needed ME100 battleship BPOs to compete in the T1 market, for example, T1 would be as impenetrable as T2 bpo markets. T1 would be only accessible to those who have invested an enormous amount of isk with a really poor ROI.
It shouldn't be this way, Greyscale has got the new ME levels pretty good in my opinion. T1 should be accessible for new industrialists, with highsec guys progressing on to T2 or T3 as they grow and moving to more dangerous space if they want to pursue capitals.
Current ME/PE10 doesn't tie a t1 subcap BPO up for years locking new players out. The proposed transition looks pretty good to me on this level. If a player has an over-researched BPO that was a poor decision to begin with, at least now others won't be tricked into making the same mistake.
TL;DR Good scaling, greyscale. It is evident you haven't understood how ME will work in the new system. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
154
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 16:45:00 -
[515] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:adding another voice to the 100 lvl idea - tjis would allow much more flexibility in terms of conversion and create far fewer 'perfect' scenarios, and at the same time reward those who invested additional time to 'market shape' their BPO collection for the purposes of selling bpc's or bpc kits. these people are idiots and should not be rewarded for their idioticy making the new system more complex and worse in order to handle the changeover - and particularly, demands from people who made dumb choices and want to be rewarded for them - is not a good way to balance. The issue will vanish a week after patch day, never to be heard again if it's just properly ignored. Not all necessarily made dumb choices, some people who researched above ME 10 did make sound choices, it was all dependent on the BPO.
I don't see any good arguments for using the ten level system over the 100 level system, other than reducing complexity (debatable whether this is a good thing), whereas there are plenty of good arguments for a 100 level system.
Edit - there is a big difference between 'over' researching a BPO, something for which I have no sympathy for people who did this, and researching a BPO above ME 10, something which many people have done in order to maximise the BPOs efficiency.
Any research above ME 10 will be effectively wasted when translated to this new system. |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
2054
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 16:50:00 -
[516] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
I don't think I agree that nobody will ever max out a battleship BPO after this. If the extra percent is actually relevant (which I assume it is, in T1 manufacturing), 60 days does not seem an unattainable number.
You don't agree? Has CCP done any ROI calculations on how much the 60 days of research on a high rank BPO are going to cost? If you dont know what I mean, under the new research system, how long is it going to take someone to recoup the money it costs them to research that last level of ME when they are producing off of the BPO? So if it cost me a 100mil to research that last bit and my savings is 100k, I'm going to have to produce 100bs before I break even. If it took me a day to produce 1 bs the actual time it would take to realize the benefit from that last bit of ME would be 160 days... not 60. ^Also obviously I'm pulling numbers out of my butt here, but that was just to make an easy example.
The cost will be highly variable depending on where you choose to do it. For a BS you should be able to get it at a pretty reasonable price.
160 days does not seem like a long time period when you're talking about a billion-ISK blueprint. T2 BPOs change hands for decades' worth of profit; EVE industrialists, at the high-end, play a long game. On top of that, either the 1% is a big enough difference that it matters and people *will* research it, or it's a small enough difference that people won't bother researching it, at which point it doesn't matter. |
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Valterra Craven
209
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Posted - 2014.04.29 16:56:00 -
[517] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
I don't think I agree that nobody will ever max out a battleship BPO after this. If the extra percent is actually relevant (which I assume it is, in T1 manufacturing), 60 days does not seem an unattainable number.
You don't agree? Has CCP done any ROI calculations on how much the 60 days of research on a high rank BPO are going to cost? If you dont know what I mean, under the new research system, how long is it going to take someone to recoup the money it costs them to research that last level of ME when they are producing off of the BPO? So if it cost me a 100mil to research that last bit and my savings is 100k, I'm going to have to produce 100bs before I break even. If it took me a day to produce 1 bs the actual time it would take to realize the benefit from that last bit of ME would be 160 days... not 60. ^Also obviously I'm pulling numbers out of my butt here, but that was just to make an easy example. The cost will be highly variable depending on where you choose to do it. For a BS you should be able to get it at a pretty reasonable price. 160 days does not seem like a long time period when you're talking about a billion-ISK blueprint. T2 BPOs change hands for decades' worth of profit; EVE industrialists, at the high-end, play a long game. On top of that, either the 1% is a big enough difference that it matters and people *will* research it, or it's a small enough difference that people won't bother researching it, at which point it doesn't matter.
If it doesn't matter than why have it in game at all?
The numbers I was using are pure fiction, I have no idea if that will be the cost of the total ROI. And honestly that was besides the point.
My question to CCP was, have YOU done any ROI calculations on what would be worth it and not worth it in terms of these changes? Do you have any idea(aka estimates) how much inflation/deflation will happen when all of these changes hit in summer?
If the answer to either of the above questions is no... then you shouldn't role these out till the answer is yes.
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Valterra Craven
209
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Posted - 2014.04.29 17:00:00 -
[518] - Quote
Also I find hilariously hypocritical that you guys aren't willing to touch POS code because the changes would be too massive and yet you are willing to undertake changes to industry that so far seem to have the potential to be much more massive and or game changing /game breaking than anything you could do with POS code. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3913
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 17:00:00 -
[519] - Quote
As a t2 inventor, I'd like some clarification of how negative ME levels alter the build requirements of an item.
For new ME values: -6 == +60% Material requirements -5 == +50% Material requirements -4 == +40% Material requirements -3 == +30% Material requirements -2 == +20% Material requirements -1 == +10% Material requirements 0 = No additional Material requirements (although this will be 11% above the current perfect build costs today). 1 = -1% Material requirements 2 = -2% Material requirements 3 = -3% Material requirements 4 = -4% Material requirements 5 = -5% Material requirements 6 = -6% Material requirements 7 = -7% Material requirements 8 = -8% Material requirements 9 = -9% Material requirements 10 = -10% Material requirements
And Building in a Nullsec Factory Outpost may grant an additional Material reduction of up to 5%, multiplicatively applied. So an invented T2 BPC without decryptors will require round(base materials * 1.4)? In a fully upgraded nullsec outpost, that invented t2 BPC will require round(base materials * 1.4 * .95)?
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Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.04.29 17:01:00 -
[520] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote: It is evident you haven't understood how ME will work in the new system.
Firstly, I have. Secondly, reducing the barrier to entry for T1 at the BPO level is an excellent change in my opinion. I'm sorry your ME100 raven won't realise the ROI you envisaged. |
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Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
154
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Posted - 2014.04.29 17:09:00 -
[521] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote: It is evident you haven't understood how ME will work in the new system.
Firstly, I have. Secondly, reducing the barrier to entry for T1 at the BPO level is an excellent change in my opinion. I'm sorry your ME100 raven won't realise the ROI you envisaged. It would make no difference to the barrier to entry as can be seen in the posts below.
CCP Greyscale wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:The only issue I can see, which I see was also mentioned above, is how were you thinking about relating the new levels to time to research? If the BPO ME level is switched to 100 levels instead of 10, then presumably we would still want to keep the gradient in times being much quicker initially and much longer for later levels. I think it would definitely work, but would probably need a new formula for working out skill training times instead of imposing the skill level formula which is currently planned. Yeah, pretty much. I think mapping 100 points to the current curve should be doable, we've already had to interpolate to get ten steps out of five, in principle extending that to 100 is doable. Total time to fully research would be identical. If anything it will reduce the barrier to entry as a BPO can be researched to 95% (giving 9.5% material saving) instead of either level 9 or 10 as currently proposed. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5403
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 17:15:00 -
[522] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:adding another voice to the 100 lvl idea - tjis would allow much more flexibility in terms of conversion and create far fewer 'perfect' scenarios, and at the same time reward those who invested additional time to 'market shape' their BPO collection for the purposes of selling bpc's or bpc kits. these people are idiots and should not be rewarded for their idioticy
Way to put apples and oranges together.
One thing is how the stuff will be implemented (complex or simple) another is how to deal with current BPOs.
It was not an act of idiocy to have very pristine BPOs for those who were strong in the BPC copies markets.
I have all ME500+ capital component BPOs and other BPOs have taken 2 years to research to be the best of all on the market.
This was a long term investment, we had no "preadvice" our investments would be worth zero " :because: ".
How CCP will deal with this (in a simple or complex manner) is not related with the simple fact that people invested in stuff for a result and now the result is being deleted. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2014.04.29 17:25:00 -
[523] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Seith Kali wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote: It is evident you haven't understood how ME will work in the new system.
Firstly, I have. Secondly, reducing the barrier to entry for T1 at the BPO level is an excellent change in my opinion. I'm sorry your ME100 raven won't realise the ROI you envisaged. It would make no difference to the barrier to entry as can be seen in the posts below.
Of course it would. If 10 became perfect then all the BPO's where the optimal is greater than 10 less investment will be necessary. This will be offset somewhat but the research time changes, but from the hints we have seen of teams we will be able to buy big advantages there.
Massively researching T1 BPOs has never been an intelligent choice, the fact so many players were foolish enough to do so indicates two things. Firstly they don't think things through correctly, reducing credibility of their protests on this issue. Secondly, the system was confusing enough to make it look like a good idea to a number of people.
These changes do not hurt them, they simply don't put players who made smarter research choices at a disadvantage. If my set of ME 14 cruiser BPOs became redundant because of the whining of the vocal few, I would be terribly upset. There are an awful lot of people who DID make good research choices and hurting the relative value of their BPO's because of people like you trying to justify your foolishness is ridiculous. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
458
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 17:29:00 -
[524] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: It was not an act of idiocy to have very pristine BPOs for those who were strong in the BPC copies markets.
That's debatable.
What's not debatable is that anyone who PURCHASED these BPCs at a premium was an idiot. I bet you complained when faction and deadspace items got added to the general market, too. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 17:31:00 -
[525] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Weaselior wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:adding another voice to the 100 lvl idea - tjis would allow much more flexibility in terms of conversion and create far fewer 'perfect' scenarios, and at the same time reward those who invested additional time to 'market shape' their BPO collection for the purposes of selling bpc's or bpc kits. these people are idiots and should not be rewarded for their idioticy Way to put apples and oranges together. One thing is how the stuff will be implemented (complex or simple) another is how to deal with current BPOs. It was not an act of idiocy to have very pristine BPOs for those who were strong in the BPC copies markets. I have all ME500+ capital component BPOs and other BPOs have taken 2 years to research to be the best of all on the market. This was a long term investment, we had no "preadvice" our investments would be worth zero " :because: ". How CCP will deal with this (in a simple or complex manner) is not related with the simple fact that people invested in stuff for a result and now the result is being deleted.
Your BPOs will still be the most valuable, but ME500 on capital components is just ridiculous. The extra cost of your BPCs over ME32 ones would have been an equally poor investment for your customer, I expect. Either way one of the pair of you were losing and that sucks. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7152
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 17:33:00 -
[526] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: I have all ME500+ capital component BPOs and other BPOs have taken 2 years to research to be the best of all on the market.
This was a long term investment, we had no "preadvice" our investments would be worth zero " :because: ".
How CCP will deal with this (in a simple or complex manner) is not related with the simple fact that people invested in stuff for a result and now the result is being deleted.
you absolutely had preadvice, you had the formula and were able to determine that the extra 300 me saved you like one unit of trit per run
if you're saying that you invested that so people would pay higher prices your component bpcs: you were scamming them, and when scams using arcane interfaces get patched you suck it up and deal, goons didn't demand compensation for the abolition of free-form contracts Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
509
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 17:35:00 -
[527] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Weaselior wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:adding another voice to the 100 lvl idea - tjis would allow much more flexibility in terms of conversion and create far fewer 'perfect' scenarios, and at the same time reward those who invested additional time to 'market shape' their BPO collection for the purposes of selling bpc's or bpc kits. these people are idiots and should not be rewarded for their idioticy Way to put apples and oranges together. One thing is how the stuff will be implemented (complex or simple) another is how to deal with current BPOs. It was not an act of idiocy to have very pristine BPOs for those who were strong in the BPC copies markets. I have all ME500+ capital component BPOs and other BPOs have taken 2 years to research to be the best of all on the market. This was a long term investment, we had no "preadvice" our investments would be worth zero " :because: ". How CCP will deal with this (in a simple or complex manner) is not related with the simple fact that people invested in stuff for a result and now the result is being deleted.
It was absolutely an act of idiocy, an act of vanity and another wonderful display of bad game mechanic knowledge. You and other BPO copy marketeers wasted years upon years of research time for a benefit that doesn't even amount to a rounding error. The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
458
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 17:43:00 -
[528] - Quote
In other words, excessive ME ratings on BPCs wasn't functional; it was literally peacock plumage, designed to attract the dimwitted and math-deficient.
Plumage just got nerfed. Sorry. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
449
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Posted - 2014.04.29 17:49:00 -
[529] - Quote
lol only goons in favor of this
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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GeeBee
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
47
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Posted - 2014.04.29 17:53:00 -
[530] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I thiiiiiink that jobs lasting more than 30 days are fine provided they're single-run. Certainly that works for manufacturing, otherwise it'd be impossible to build titans already. In any case, we're going to make sure that long single-run jobs work fine :)
As to people with ME10 Titan BPOs, that's ~4 years of research time under the current system. I'll go check if any exist, but I doubt it.
its not just that its any ME5 or PE5 is going to be turned into an ME9% or PE18%
This means a ME5 titan bpo now has been researched for 1185 Days then turns into ME9% which takes 7336 days to duplicate in the new system.
PE5 titan BPO (these may not exist, ME5s do for sure) 1777d before turns into PE18% which would take 11003 days after.
The current system is fine, this redesign of the ME/PE system is unneeded, just fix the copy times.
It would seem the logic of the 10 level system is to simplify it for new players or players new to industry, but at the same time it penalizes any new industry by excessively harsh research times compared to existing blueprints. |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
2057
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Posted - 2014.04.29 17:56:00 -
[531] - Quote
GeeBee wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
I thiiiiiink that jobs lasting more than 30 days are fine provided they're single-run. Certainly that works for manufacturing, otherwise it'd be impossible to build titans already. In any case, we're going to make sure that long single-run jobs work fine :)
As to people with ME10 Titan BPOs, that's ~4 years of research time under the current system. I'll go check if any exist, but I doubt it.
its not just that its any ME5 or PE5 is going to be turned into an ME9% or PE18% This means a ME5 titan bpo now has been researched for 1185 Days then turns into ME9% which takes 7336 days to duplicate in the new system. PE5 titan BPO (these may not exist, ME5s do for sure) 1777d before turns into PE18% which would take 11003 days after. The current system is fine, this redesign of the ME/PE system is unneeded, just fix the copy times. It would seem the logic of the 10 level system is to simplify it for new players or players new to industry, but at the same time it penalizes any new industry by excessively harsh research times compared to existing blueprints.
Yeah, that's fair. I'll think about this some more. |
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Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2014.04.29 17:59:00 -
[532] - Quote
Crebba wrote:If i understand this section correctly: Quote:This would mean that ME/TE 1 become ME 5%/TE 10%, ME/TE 5-9 become ME 9%/TE 18%, and anything over ME/TE 10 currently move to ME 10%/TE 20%. Then my Raven blueprint that i researched to 40 ME would basically become the same as a blueprint that someone else researched to ME 10. Lets crunch some numbers Production price ME 40: 180 268 251 ISK Production price ME 10: 181 203 436 ISK My blueprint is netting me 935 k isk more for every ship i produce, it doesn't seem much but its 2 bil isk/year that I would have earned more because i spent 75 days more researching my blueprint than what he did. If you have to revamp the system then why would you not just take the amount of time spent researching a blueprint and then just set the new ME value to whatever level you would get if you spent that time researching the BPO after the patch?
This is a very good compromise so people with insane research times don't get too upset.
If you spent 7 months researching something before, you get 7 months worth of research time for that BPO in the new system. If the BPO in the new system caps at 3 weeks of research (rank 10) then the extra time is wasted, but you can't please everyone. |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2014.04.29 18:02:00 -
[533] - Quote
GeeBee wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
I thiiiiiink that jobs lasting more than 30 days are fine provided they're single-run. Certainly that works for manufacturing, otherwise it'd be impossible to build titans already. In any case, we're going to make sure that long single-run jobs work fine :)
As to people with ME10 Titan BPOs, that's ~4 years of research time under the current system. I'll go check if any exist, but I doubt it.
its not just that its any ME5 or PE5 is going to be turned into an ME9% or PE18% This means a ME5 titan bpo now has been researched for 1185 Days then turns into ME9% which takes 7336 days to duplicate in the new system. PE5 titan BPO (these may not exist, ME5s do for sure) 1777d before turns into PE18% which would take 11003 days after. The current system is fine, this redesign of the ME/PE system is unneeded, just fix the copy times. It would seem the logic of the 10 level system is to simplify it for new players or players new to industry, but at the same time it penalizes any new industry by excessively harsh research times compared to existing blueprints.
Agreed. Convert old time to new time, and discard the extra. If it caps at ME10 so what. This puts everyone on the same footing, as the person who spent 1000 days researching in the past is 1000 days ahead of the upstart, instead of 5000 days ahead of them. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7156
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 18:07:00 -
[534] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: Yeah, that's fair. I'll think about this some more.
The issue here may be that the scaling gets a little out of hand at the high end: I'm not sure there's any gameplay benefit to having research times measured in decades for anything in-game. I think you should look at adjusting the curves or times for the high-end bpos (basically capital and above) if you want to fix this sort of problem. I think the problem more is that we are discussing a (base) research time of 21 years for ME9%. Your problem with the conversion is there - the endpoint is ludicrous - rather than the general principle of maintaining the same amount of waste. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.04.29 18:08:00 -
[535] - Quote
That guys ME500 capital component BPOs will still be some 6 months researched past perfect. Poor guy. |
Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.04.29 18:14:00 -
[536] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Yeah, that's fair. I'll think about this some more.
The issue here may be that the scaling gets a little out of hand at the high end: I'm not sure there's any gameplay benefit to having research times measured in decades for anything in-game. I think you should look at adjusting the curves or times for the high-end bpos (basically capital and above) if you want to fix this sort of problem.
If you switch to a 100 point system combined with copy speed improvements, it's not unthinkable to have high end bpos researching for a lot of the time and still realising benefits. Decades for the last 10 points is crazy though, agreed.
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Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2014.04.29 18:26:00 -
[537] - Quote
Instead of a 100 point system, why not just allow fractional research to stay on a BPO and continued later, similar to how laser crystals wear over time? IMO 10 points is better. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
154
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Posted - 2014.04.29 18:29:00 -
[538] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:Instead of a 100 point system, why not just allow fractional research to stay on a BPO and continued later, similar to how laser crystals wear over time? IMO 10 points is better. Makes little difference which one is implemented, a 100 level system would be more intuitive and simple though than a ten level system with 100% progress bar for each level. |
GeeBee
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
47
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Posted - 2014.04.29 18:31:00 -
[539] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Yeah, that's fair. I'll think about this some more.
The issue here may be that the scaling gets a little out of hand at the high end: I'm not sure there's any gameplay benefit to having research times measured in decades for anything in-game. I think you should look at adjusting the curves or times for the high-end bpos (basically capital and above) if you want to fix this sort of problem. I think the problem more is that we are discussing a (base) research time of 21 years for ME9%. Your problem with the conversion is there - the endpoint is ludicrous - rather than the general principle of maintaining the same amount of waste.
Its not just titan bpo's it scales like this to all T1 blueprints from old to new. Rank 60s BC / BS ME10 Before 41d 16h After 306 Rank 60 BC / BS ME9 Before 37d 12h After 128
Rank 10 Capital Components ME10 Before 7D 9H After 51 Days Rank 10 Capitial Components ME 9 before 6D 16H After 21 Days
A 100 Point System with a research time scaling that is somewhat linear to our current system would be better, working on a spreadsheet for it nows. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7156
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 18:34:00 -
[540] - Quote
GeeBee wrote:Weaselior wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Yeah, that's fair. I'll think about this some more.
The issue here may be that the scaling gets a little out of hand at the high end: I'm not sure there's any gameplay benefit to having research times measured in decades for anything in-game. I think you should look at adjusting the curves or times for the high-end bpos (basically capital and above) if you want to fix this sort of problem. I think the problem more is that we are discussing a (base) research time of 21 years for ME9%. Your problem with the conversion is there - the endpoint is ludicrous - rather than the general principle of maintaining the same amount of waste. Its not just titan bpo's it scales like this to all T1 blueprints from old to new. Rank 60s BC / BS ME10 Before 41d 16h After 306 Rank 60 BC / BS ME9 Before 37d 12h After 128 Rank 10 Capital Components ME10 Before 7D 9H After 51 Days Rank 10 Capitial Components ME 9 before 6D 16H After 21 Days A 100 Point System with a research time scaling that is somewhat linear to our current system would be better, working on a spreadsheet for it nows. I have less of an issue with saving a month doing it pre-patch: such is life, it is easy to get over that hump as a new player.
I do however understand the "saving 21 years" problem is less amenable to a "deal w/it" solution. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
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