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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Wilkz X
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.04.28 18:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Returning player here. I have started out again running L4s to get the feel again and with the changes to the aggro on drones, they seem completely useless? As soon as I put them in space they are instantly locked up and attacked to the point that I can't even down much having to cycle them in and out.
Am I doing something wrong?
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Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc. Constructive. Criticism.
93
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Posted - 2014.04.28 18:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Wilkz X wrote:Returning player here. I have started out again running L4s to get the feel again and with the changes to the aggro on drones, they seem completely useless? As soon as I put them in space they are instantly locked up and attacked to the point that I can't even down much having to cycle them in and out.
Am I doing something wrong?
Depends which drones u use, and how high your skills are. Sentries are great, heavies may become worthwhile in summer expansion, small and mediums work great as long as u dont have elite rats on the field. i personally avoid using these as i cant manage them good enough. |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
325
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Posted - 2014.04.28 18:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
from my experiance in all levels of missions...
Shift + R is your friend.
each time drones getting shot at use this combo to pull them back inside then wait until you see the rats on overview marked red as they are locked and shooting on your ship then unleash the drones.
Also read on eve survival some missions got habit of aggroing drones no matter what :x "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Wilkz X
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.04.28 18:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Been useing hobgob/ogre IIs, skills aren't maxed out but still have 1.6mil in drones, maybe ill look into sentries |
Inkarr Hashur
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
500
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Posted - 2014.04.28 19:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Salvage drones are lovely. |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
95
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Posted - 2014.04.28 20:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
True be told, I've just been stocking my bay with t1 hobs and letting them die. |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
95
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Posted - 2014.04.28 20:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Inkarr Hashur wrote:Salvage drones are lovely. This guy speaks truth.
Although word of warning, rats will target these too. Why said rat views a salvage drone as a bigger threat than a BS killing all of its friends, I don't understand xD. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3064
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Posted - 2014.04.28 20:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
I usually just take a fly of light drones with me to take down frigs that get under my tracking and fill whatever is left with sentry drones. Of course that doesn't work when you need to stay mobile. Unless they're a main weapon system, drones are merely utility and not a real source of DPS, imho. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1908
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Posted - 2014.04.28 22:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
I find myself using lights and sentries in L4's these days when I have a drone bay; the others are just too slow to bother with. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25623
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Posted - 2014.04.28 23:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Wilkz X wrote:Returning player here. I have started out again running L4s to get the feel again and with the changes to the aggro on drones, they seem completely useless? As soon as I put them in space they are instantly locked up and attacked to the point that I can't even down much having to cycle them in and out.
Am I doing something wrong?
When CCP first changed NPC's to the Sleeper AI, all NPC's were targeting Drones and basically made Player Drone Boats un-usable. After a little while CCP changed the NPC aggro towards Drones to be based more on size. Also it seems that the NPC's will concentrate their fire on one specific drone at a time. I might be wrong and I'm sure there's probably more to it than this but to my understanding this is the basic ratio:
NPC regular Frigates, Destroyers and their Elite class versions will target Light and larger Drones.
NPC Elite class Frigates, Elite class Destroyers, regular Cruisers and their Elite class version will target Medium and larger Drones.
NPC Elite class Cruisers, regular Battlecruisers, Battleships and their Elite class version will target Heavy and larger Drones.
I think all NPC ship classes will attack Sentry Drones.
Anyway, in my experience I've found that if I destroy all NPC Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers first before launching Drones, the larger class NPC's will not aggro on them. However, if there's a spawn or another group within the pocket, all NPC Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers will aggro on the Drones. When I recall the Drones, the new spawn will switch aggro to my ship. In the case of the other group within the pocket, those NPC's will return to their original location.
If my ship is webbed and scrammed by a close orbiting NPC Frigate and I can't hit it with my autocannons, then the Drones come out and take care of the EWAR NPC's. I keep watch on the Drones and recall each individual Drone when it starts taking Armor damage.
DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
784
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Posted - 2014.04.29 00:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
I take agro first, BEFORE I drop drones. Since Frigates can target me faster, they are the first to light up, and usually the first to get in range.
Then I drop Hobs and put them on the 1st Frigate while I kill Cruisers and BS. I watch for red on my drones in the drone overview and adjust as needed. |
Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
24
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Posted - 2014.04.29 08:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
NPC's will fire at either you or your drones based on which is a greater threat (modified by the size of drones relative to the NPC in question as an earlier poster stated).
They do however prioritize ewar, so if you use a target painter that will not only help your drones tracking and damage application, it will also take a load of aggro off your drones.
If you are using sentries another approach is to remote rep your drones and use them as your tank. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
921
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Posted - 2014.04.29 09:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
I use them all the time against NPCs. I just don't understand how people use so many drones. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Talia Valta
Valta Industries
7
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Posted - 2014.04.29 11:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
I found that if there are any destroyers on the field, then your drones will be massacred.
Take out all the small crosses first, before deploying drones.
If you do need to deploy drones, just make sure there aren't any dessi's left.
Some cruisers can hit drones quite well, so either way, you'll need to micromanage them.
Good luck!! |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
825
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Posted - 2014.04.29 13:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wilkz X wrote:Returning player here. I have started out again running L4s to get the feel again and with the changes to the aggro on drones, they seem completely useless? As soon as I put them in space they are instantly locked up and attacked to the point that I can't even down much having to cycle them in and out.
Am I doing something wrong?
This was a very annoying patch to prevent people from AFK mission running in drone boats.
Use light drones for any frigate within 10km but sending them out further is pretty much suicide. I thought about having a flight of disposable T1 light drones to kill stuff but if you try this make sure you also have a flight of T2's for emergency.
Sentry drones work but you'll end up playing the pull this drone in game over and over so it effectively reduces your DPS. I have a MJD sentry Dominix for AE and it seems to work well because Angels can't hit very far.
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Viserys Anstian
Wayward Chickens
9
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Posted - 2014.04.29 14:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
I found when I got to lvl 4s with my drone boats, I gave up and went back to turrets. Sure, I had great paper "DPS" but constantly pulling them in and out effectively cut the DPS in half.
I'll used Drones on my turret BS's for any frigates that manage to get under my guns. Usually doesn't happen unless I'm not paying attention and I'm sitting on a spawn point, but they are valuable then. Otherwise, I just use the salvage drones. Once I've cleared the field of everything but the BS's, I'll pull the lights in and deploy the salvage drones by my MTU and let them start cleaning up sooner so they are wrapping up about the time I'm done with the last BS. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
351
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Posted - 2014.04.29 15:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
I have noticed that after you kill off npc frigs and destroyers, it is fine to unleash the salvage drones. Seems only frigs and dessies will target them. |
Wilkz X
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.04.29 19:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
I appreciate everyone taking the time to answer my question, glad I'm not losing my mind.
The reoccurring answer i'm seeing on here is that with a recent patch, drone aggro is different and frigs/dessies are going to be targeting your drones no matter what. A lot of the advice here is "just put them out after those are dead" .. that's all great and dandy but my cruise Golem obviously has the hardest time applying damage to just those ships. Hence in the past I would use drones on the small ships while I cleaned up the BCs/BSs
I may mess around with sentries and I may play around with the idea of expendable T1s with an emergency T2 fleet.
Has anyone at CCP ever addressed this issue post patch? I understand the whole AFK drone boats = bad, but this seems like an overzealous fix that renders drones useless |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
356
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Posted - 2014.04.29 19:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
It has been mentioned, but I believe the response is that you now just need to manage your drones better. Keep your drones close and recall. I find that as long as I don't let them get more than 20km away I can recall them quickly enough. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
829
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Posted - 2014.04.29 19:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Three target painters and two rigor rigs on a Golem mean most frigates die with one shot.
The obvious fix would have been to remove the "Aggressive" option but it's CCP |
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1914
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Posted - 2014.04.29 20:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Neutrino Sunset wrote:NPC's will fire at either you or your drones based on which is a greater threat
Just as a side note, I don't think the threat model works that well (if it's true at all). Take a Noctis into an active field, drones or not, and watch the Noctis, an unarmed boat, get aggressed. Every single time I've taken a Noctis into an active room, whether I'm in a HAC, T3, or Battleship, and Noctis immediately gets aggro.
Also, others have noted where their salvage drones get targeted in active rooms. I've personally never seen this myself, but if true, it's more evidence (anecdotal or not) that the aggression model cannot be relied on as a model for assessing aggro. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
829
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Posted - 2014.04.29 22:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Neutrino Sunset wrote:NPC's will fire at either you or your drones based on which is a greater threat Just as a side note, I don't think the threat model works that well (if it's true at all). Take a Noctis into an active field, drones or not, and watch the Noctis, an unarmed boat, get aggressed. Every single time I've taken a Noctis into an active room, whether I'm in a HAC, T3, or Battleship, and Noctis immediately gets aggro. Also, others have noted where their salvage drones get targeted in active rooms. I've personally never seen this myself, but if true, it's more evidence (anecdotal or not) that the aggression model cannot be relied on as a model for assessing aggro. I agree. NPC's will aggro drones regardless of their threat level. I can be flying an 1100 DPS Paladin and they'll shoot salvage drones that are no threat. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
690
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Posted - 2014.05.02 06:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
My mission alt flies a domi with no turrets or launchers at all just drones.
Solutions to drone aggro ...
1) MJD out to 100km plus and snipe with bouncers
2) cycle drones in and out whenever they are aggroed
3) if only one drone gets aggro you can: a) remote shield rep it b) pull it in and just deploy 4 drones, for some reason many rats only aggro if you have 5 drones out
4) there is some evidence running target painters and remore reppers will draw aggro away from drones but this is not confirmed
5) treat T1 lights as ammo
6) be aware of what will NPCs aggro drones (elite frigates for example) and take these out first ... also note there is a size relationship where for example battlships rarely aggro mediums or smaller and cruisers rarely aggro lights
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2014.05.02 07:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:My mission alt flies a domi with no turrets or launchers at all just drones.
Solutions to drone aggro ...
1) MJD out to 100km plus and snipe with bouncers
2) cycle drones in and out whenever they are aggroed
3) if only one drone gets aggro you can: a) remote shield rep it b) pull it in and just deploy 4 drones, for some reason many rats only aggro if you have 5 drones out
4) there is some evidence running target painters and remore reppers will draw aggro away from drones but this is not confirmed
5) treat T1 lights as ammo
6) be aware of what will NPCs aggro drones (elite frigates for example) and take these out first ... also note there is a size relationship where for example battlships rarely aggro mediums or smaller and cruisers rarely aggro lights
For extreme lazyness, just drop tractor at warpin, and jump in opposite direction of the rats, most pockets will be under (or can be aggroed into by shooting something else) 160km after that, which is a reachable range on a domi. |
sarhamen
Elysian. Heiian Conglomerate
1
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Posted - 2014.05.02 14:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
I know this has probabaly already been stated but in level 4 missions or any other type of combat site, you lose too much dps waiting for travel time on drones and drone aggro, constantly having to pull them so they don't die and what not. The obvious solution to this is running a drone battleship bonused for drones so you can just afk it. Best choices are domi or afktar, in my opinion. Domi's get some nasty fitting. Here's an example or two, and remember, these can be changed to taste. [Dominix, Cheap Dominix L4 sentry + railgun] Capacitor Power Relay II Large Armor Repairer II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II
Tracking Computer II Cap Recharger II Large Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
[Dominix, Dominix - 101 km L4 mission runner] Large Armor Repairer II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II
Sensor Booster II Large Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Drone Scope Chip I Large Drone Scope Chip I
Hammerhead II Hobgoblin II Warrior II Hornet EC-300 Warden II Garde II
(needs 1% cpu implant)
As you can see, most of these fits are pretty standard, and I've personally tested these, and with specific hardeners and range tank, these things are pretty nasty.
Have fun!
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2014.05.02 14:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
sarhamen wrote:I know this has probabaly already been stated but in level 4 missions or any other type of combat site, you lose too much dps waiting for travel time on drones and drone aggro, constantly having to pull them so they don't die and what not. The obvious solution to this is running a drone battleship bonused for drones so you can just afk it. Best choices are domi or afktar, in my opinion. Domi's get some nasty fitting. Here's an example or two, and remember, these can be changed to taste. [Dominix, Cheap Dominix L4 sentry + railgun] Capacitor Power Relay II Large Armor Repairer II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II
Tracking Computer II Cap Recharger II Large Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
[Dominix, Dominix - 101 km L4 mission runner] Large Armor Repairer II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II
Sensor Booster II Large Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Drone Scope Chip I Large Drone Scope Chip I
Hammerhead II Hobgoblin II Warrior II Hornet EC-300 Warden II Garde II
(needs 1% cpu implant)
As you can see, most of these fits are pretty standard, and I've personally tested these, and with specific hardeners and range tank, these things are pretty nasty.
Have fun!
100dps from guns, fitting problems, 5 drone range mods, navy omni for no reason, 108km control range, are these from last year?
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2014.05.02 15:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
If you really want to play the 101 km dual weapon system hardcore fitting game, i suggest something like this
[Armageddon, a' la Ratt] Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Co-Processor II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Large Micro Jump Drive Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Drone Scope Chip I Large Ionic Field Projector I Large Bay Loading Accelerator II
Warden II x5 Curator II x5 Salvage Drone I x5 Hobgoblin II x5 |
Jockari Morden
Lords Of Anarchy
0
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Posted - 2014.05.05 11:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Drone aggro is easy to understand overall.
However in some mission, elite frigats' behavior is weird. For example, The Assault (serpentis)), pocket 2, they wont target sentries (but as they orbit at 15-17km Gardes II have trouble hitting them) and will demolish any light or medium t2 drones. Thankfully this pocket can be skipped because with a nogun domi those little frigat are pretty impossible to take down.
Sentry boat are overall good at doing mission, idk about before the mighty drone aggro change as I was not playing before the mighty patch |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
6329
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Posted - 2014.05.05 12:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Neutrino Sunset wrote:NPC's will fire at either you or your drones based on which is a greater threat Just as a side note, I don't think the threat model works that well (if it's true at all). Take a Noctis into an active field, drones or not, and watch the Noctis, an unarmed boat, get aggressed. Every single time I've taken a Noctis into an active room, whether I'm in a HAC, T3, or Battleship, and Noctis immediately gets aggro. Also, others have noted where their salvage drones get targeted in active rooms. I've personally never seen this myself, but if true, it's more evidence (anecdotal or not) that the aggression model cannot be relied on as a model for assessing aggro. I agree. NPC's will aggro drones regardless of their threat level. I can be flying an 1100 DPS Paladin and they'll shoot salvage drones that are no threat.
I still find it amazing how little people know about such an easy to understand threat generation/aggro system (one in which it's easier to afk in than the previous system because with this current one you don't even have to take into account missions that have various spawns).
DPS is the low man on the threat totem pole. Logistics is top, followed by EWAR (real EWAR, not things like NOS). If you use a combination of the 3 you can keep aggro off your drones most of the time (though the AI does still throw random checks at the situation causing the rare random aggro switch).
Additionally, the AI doesn't see any ship or drone as 'no threat' just very low threat which is why Noctis and such get aggro, but using the 'triple threat' scheme (logi+ewar+dps) I haven't had any aggro on my noctis or salvage drones in a long long time. And I mean Zero.
I launch a can and Rep it with a small armor rep. I target an npc pirate/enemy faction structure that I'm not going to kill (like 'guristas wall' or 'drone bunker') and damp it. I do dps with my guns or missiles. i get to use Heavy Drones while sooo many people who don't actually understand the system are using sentries (if that) and complaining lol. It's not about generating the 'most' threat, the way to game the system is to generate MULTIPLE SIMULTANEOUS threats from one ship.
I do honestly recommend actually trying things out before declaring what does and does not 'work'.....
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
520
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Posted - 2014.05.05 17:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:I find myself using lights and sentries in L4's these days when I have a drone bay; the others are just too slow to bother with. Exactly this. Although I do tend to fly gunboats with sensor boosters fit so I can usually kill NPC frigs at range You can trust me, I have a monocole |
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