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IVeige
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Posted - 2006.05.20 05:58:00 -
[1]
How much a hulk should be sell ? What do you think it worth ?
i look at the market and their price are slowly droping, they began at 600 millions , now median is 500 , and some player begin to sell them for 400 million isk .
In less than 3 month, ship value drop of 200 million.
So what do you think, how do you explain the value drop ? And what is for you the correct price of that ship ?
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Maxlis
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Posted - 2006.05.20 06:01:00 -
[2]
Price has dropped because only so many idiots will spend 600mil on a hulk. When they first started coming out people were charging 300, and then that stopped real quick. I'd say 300mils is CLOSE to HALFWAY reasonable for that kind of a ship.
Really though, it should only be worth 100mil, but it's going to take a LONG time for the market to stabilize that low.
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Astasia Orian
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Posted - 2006.05.20 06:03:00 -
[3]
The correct price is whatever the market determines. As for the potential drop in price, despite having a huge market, Hulks may eventually reach saturation as a large proportion of them are used by empire miners who almost never get popped. Those who do use them in 0.0 are extra careful with them due to the price tag and rarely lose them.
I doubt you'll see a significant price drop down toward build price for a long time though, as the market for these lovely ships is so big.
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Astasia Orian
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Posted - 2006.05.20 06:05:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Astasia Orian on 20/05/2006 06:05:47 If you're going to start getting into what "I think it's worth" type stuff then look at the fact that a skilled Hulk can pull in 55+m/hr. If you pay 500 then you can cover it in a day if you have some time on your hands. The payback will certainly be much longer if you're mining scordite but still a worthy investment in the long run.
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Eric Secundus
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Posted - 2006.05.20 06:18:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Astasia Orian Edited by: Astasia Orian on 20/05/2006 06:05:47 If you're going to start getting into what "I think it's worth" type stuff then look at the fact that a skilled Hulk can pull in 55+m/hr. If you pay 500 then you can cover it in a day if you have some time on your hands. The payback will certainly be much longer if you're mining scordite but still a worthy investment in the long run.
This of course requires that you have access to high value ore like the ones deep in 0.0. Of course everyone and their neighbour has that right? I'd like to see your estimate for making 55+ mill an hour mining Kernite or Omber in a Hulk. I really would..
Not all of us are part of huge alliances and have a BS or BC guarding us while we mine crokite in a protected belt..
- I don't argue with morons. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience - |
Astasia Orian
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Posted - 2006.05.20 06:22:00 -
[6]
I am just trying to explain why the market sets the price so high and why I don't expect it to change much in the near term, not what "should" be and why everything's so hard for empire dwellers who can't get all the best gear in the game for free while continuing to take no risks.
So don't take it personally!
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Coconut Joe
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Posted - 2006.05.20 06:52:00 -
[7]
It'd be great if we had a comunist government for one of the empires in eve, lets seee how long people complain about prices then!
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Dak Hakin
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Posted - 2006.05.20 07:05:00 -
[8]
Hulk smash! _______________________________________________ I am the devil, and I'm here to do the devils work.
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Eric Secundus
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Posted - 2006.05.20 07:07:00 -
[9]
Didn't take it personally. I just found your post about "earning 55+ mill an hour" misguiding, as that is something you can only make in very special situations with it. Not something possible for most miners I would suspect.
I don't care about the Hulk actually. I fly a Covetor when I mine, with t2 mining drones. Harvesters drones at what, 6-8 million isk a piece, and a Hulk at 500 mill is something i will manage without, probably forever [;)] I don't play the game enough hours a week to have goals of getting the nicest equipment when i know the insane prices they have. Because some people have insane amounts of isk basically. The cost of living in empire: relaxed gameplay and mostly t1 items for me
- I don't argue with morons. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience - |
Alaph Force
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Posted - 2006.05.20 07:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dak Hakin Hulk smash!
BEST POST EVEA
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.05.20 07:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Eric Secundus Didn't take it personally. I just found your post about "earning 55+ mill an hour" misguiding, as that is something you can only make in very special situations with it.
...which is exactly what she said. A skilled hulk CAN earn up to 55+ mill an hour. If you found it misguiding, you should learn to read properly. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Yurii Chan
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Posted - 2006.05.20 09:52:00 -
[12]
actually the hulk is well worth its weight in... well, 400m isk
--you say you dont have the alliance for deep space access? that's easily attainable
--you say you dont have the means to get an escort? well, let me introduce you to the Hulk's bestest buddy in the whole wide uh... Evenivers - Mr Gistii small shield booster. that's right, with just a small shield booster (apx worth 60m) and some hardeners (t2 preferable - apx cost 16m) and about 2 weeks of skill training you can have the best of both worlds - 55m isk per hour and the ability to keep it all to yourself (hauler not included)
so yea, stop the whining. prices will go down when everyone and their great grandmother gets one. if you dont want one now, feel free to wait.
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Eric Secundus
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Posted - 2006.05.20 10:34:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Yurii Chan actually the hulk is well worth its weight in... well, 400m isk
--you say you dont have the alliance for deep space access? that's easily attainable
Let me be more precise: i dont have and dont WANT to buy/work for alliance access and moving through 0.0 chokepoints etc. I don't have time for more than casual play these days.
Originally by: Yurii Chan
--you say you dont have the means to get an escort? well, let me introduce you to the Hulk's bestest buddy in the whole wide uh... Evenivers - Mr Gistii small shield booster. that's right, with just a small shield booster (apx worth 60m) and some hardeners (t2 preferable - apx cost 16m) and about 2 weeks of skill training you can have the best of both worlds - 55m isk per hour and the ability to keep it all to yourself (hauler not included)
Hmm thanks, this i didnt know. This shield booster is good enough to let you tank 0.0 BS spawns?
Originally by: Yurii Chan
so yea, stop the whining. prices will go down when everyone and their great grandmother gets one. if you dont want one now, feel free to wait.
Where am i whining? Please point out the place where my replies turned from "disagreeing with OP" or "stating my opinion" and turned to whining. It seriously p i s s e s me off how people on the net insult faster than anything else.
- I don't argue with morons. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience - |
Basileus
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Posted - 2006.05.20 10:38:00 -
[14]
I'll buy one for 250 - 300 M. It's just not worth more to me.
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Eric Secundus
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Posted - 2006.05.20 10:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Eric Secundus Didn't take it personally. I just found your post about "earning 55+ mill an hour" misguiding, as that is something you can only make in very special situations with it.
...which is exactly what she said. A skilled hulk CAN earn up to 55+ mill an hour. If you found it misguiding, you should learn to read properly.
Too little information. By the same logic saying "a skilled fighter character can earn 100 million isk a spawn in a frigate". You just neglect to mention that: - the area has to be 0.0, and most likely serpentis space (no missiles and bad tracking) - The spawn has to be BS size, Shadow Serpentis and giving faction loot like implants.
This can happen, i know that for a fact. But covering it behind a simple "Can" doesnt really cover it does it?
So yes, I find it misguiding. "Can make you 55+ mill an hour if you mine rare 0.0 ore" would be more fitting in my opinion. But hey, I'll probably get a reply like "stop your whining" for this anyways, so who cares
- I don't argue with morons. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience - |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.20 10:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Astasia Orian If you're going to start getting into what "I think it's worth" type stuff then look at the fact that a skilled Hulk can pull in 55+m/hr. If you pay 500 then you can cover it in a day if you have some time on your hands. The payback will certainly be much longer if you're mining scordite but still a worthy investment in the long run.
bad maths 4tw. What you need to look at is the difference in ISK made between a covetor and a hulk
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.05.20 10:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Astasia Orian If you're going to start getting into what "I think it's worth" type stuff then look at the fact that a skilled Hulk can pull in 55+m/hr. If you pay 500 then you can cover it in a day if you have some time on your hands. The payback will certainly be much longer if you're mining scordite but still a worthy investment in the long run.
bad maths 4tw. What you need to look at is the difference in ISK made between a covetor and a hulk
Right, it's an upgrade over the large barge. You're looking at how long until the extra profit pays for the ship, meaning when it pays for itself. In all that time you're mining in a hulk to pay for itself, you would have been mining in a covetor.
To the OP, it's Tech 2, pure and simple. In a free market, limited supply dictates that the suppliers will price cream until sales drop. They will charge 600m as long as they can shift all their stock at 600m. As sales decline, the part of the target market who will pay 600m gets saturated and they decrease the price to reach the people who will pay less. The actual production costs are a lot lower than the price they charge so I can see the price coming down to 200-300mil in the next six months.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Shigata Ganai
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Posted - 2006.05.20 11:57:00 -
[18]
Yay, price gouging.
Only strategy that makes sense with the kind of scarcity that Hulk bpo owners enjoy. I'd do it too, if I had one.
But what do I think they are worth? Hmm... imho, ~120mil, based on minerals, markup, etc. *
Pragmatic doesn't always mean shortsighted. |
Wulfstan
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Posted - 2006.05.20 12:01:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Coconut Joe It'd be great if we had a comunist government for one of the empires in eve, lets seee how long people complain about prices then!
If Eve Tech II was run on a communist basis ...
They'd be dirt cheap, but the queues would be gigantic and when you finally reached the front of the queue they'd only be able to offer you an Ibis and a slightly used Rifter (one careful owner).
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Drizit
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Posted - 2006.05.20 12:40:00 -
[20]
Like much of the T2 market is overpriced. Even the Providence can be built for half the price it sells for if you have a BPO for it. Buying all the BPCs for the capital parts from Escrow only amounts to just under a quarter of a billion. Buiding them all from the BPCs and building the Providence cost another quarter. The rest of the 1+ billion price tag is pure profit.
I just hope the reverse engineering in Kali will help bring this T2 monopoly down a notch or two. I also hope the Tier3 BS BPOs will also be available from the general market otherwise we will see the same thing happen with them.
Too few competitors with BPOs = high prices, nothing to do with demand. I did enough marketing at college to know that supply and demand doesn't work to inflate prices, greed does that all by itself.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.05.20 12:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Drizit Like much of the T2 market is overpriced. Even the Providence can be built for half the price it sells for if you have a BPO for it. Buying all the BPCs for the capital parts from Escrow only amounts to just under a quarter of a billion. Buiding them all from the BPCs and building the Providence cost another quarter. The rest of the 1+ billion price tag is pure profit.
I just hope the reverse engineering in Kali will help bring this T2 monopoly down a notch or two. I also hope the Tier3 BS BPOs will also be available from the general market otherwise we will see the same thing happen with them.
Too few competitors with BPOs = high prices, nothing to do with demand. I did enough marketing at college to know that supply and demand doesn't work to inflate prices, greed does that all by itself.
Cant just blame on producers and resellers. Buyers are also culprits. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Professor Utonium
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Posted - 2006.05.20 13:22:00 -
[22]
Quote: --you say you dont have the means to get an escort? well, let me introduce you to the Hulk's bestest buddy in the whole wide uh... Evenivers - Mr Gistii small shield booster. that's right, with just a small shield booster (apx worth 60m) and some hardeners (t2 preferable - apx cost 16m) and about 2 weeks of skill training you can have the best of both worlds - 55m isk per hour and the ability to keep it all to yourself (hauler not included)Laughing
And the moment a lone scrambler comes, you and that 400 mil hulk, 60 mil gistii booster and the other 80 mil worth of gear on your hulk are gone.
Stop acting like the resistances on the hulk give you immunity to everything, a lone interceptor can GANK YOU EASILY.
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Eric Secundus
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Posted - 2006.05.20 13:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Cant just blame on producers and resellers. Buyers are also culprits.
Few suppliers means only some buyers can get what they want. Combine the greed of the few suppliers with the insane wealth of some of the buying characters in this game, and you got the t2 market:
- the rich buyers dont care too much. they can afford it anyways - the BPO owners are happy, as they can point to the buyers and go "look they buy at that price, its THEIR fault.."
On an added note: the resellers are the worst in my opinion. Those who buy the cheapest t2 items and then put them back up for sale at just under maximum price of current market...
- I don't argue with morons. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience - |
Nahual
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Posted - 2006.05.20 13:38:00 -
[24]
bought my hulk for 400 + fittings and im completely happy with the price, with a hulk that takes what, 2 days to mine back? 3? a week. Does it really matter...it's not that much of a problem.
Hulks i don't really see dropping below 300-400 mil at the best of times. Their potential to earn income is HUGE. Nuff said really. Potential to earn income > price.
Look @ HACs...150-225 mil. How much income do you get from that? Just my view.
Maximum sig image file size is 24kb --Jorauk |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.05.20 13:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Eric Secundus
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Cant just blame on producers and resellers. Buyers are also culprits.
Few suppliers means only some buyers can get what they want. Combine the greed of the few suppliers with the insane wealth of some of the buying characters in this game, and you got the t2 market:
- the rich buyers dont care too much. they can afford it anyways - the BPO owners are happy, as they can point to the buyers and go "look they buy at that price, its THEIR fault.."
On an added note: the resellers are the worst in my opinion. Those who buy the cheapest t2 items and then put them back up for sale at just under maximum price of current market...
I blame consumers, producers and resellers. Every action in EvE effects everyone.
Producers make and sell at 2M. Consumers and Resellers buys at 2M. Resellers resell at 4M. Consumers can not find cheap item and have to buy at 4M. Cry a bit but still buy because feel insecure. Need T2 to win. Producers see item can sell at 4M. Next batch is sold at 4M.
Consumers and Resellers buys at 4M. Resellers resell at 8M. Consumers can not find cheap item and have to buy at 8M. Cry even more but still buy because feel insecure. Need T2 to win. Producers see item can sell at 8M. Next batch is sold at 8M.
Consumers and Resellers buys at 8M. Resellers resell at 12M. Consumers can not find cheap item and have to buy at 12M. Cry at CCP in forums but still buy because feel insecure. Need T2 to win. Producers see item can sell at 12M. Next batch is sold at 12M.
Reverse engineering would make some items a bit cheaper but dont put too much hope. As long as consumers are densed, prices will always increase. Can not afford T2s, dont use it? You want it, you pay for it.
Sometimes I want to feel sorry but I just can not feel sorry for these people any more.
Rich buyers dont care, huh? BCS T2, 3 months ago 10M. Now 6M. I see this mod dropping to 2M - 3M because not too many buy them and supply is becoming a glut. Nobody would use a T2 BCS on a Caracal.
How many rich people would keep buying a Hulk? Everything is all about volume and mass. Crazy profits, slower sales, glut. When you buy overpriced items, you are not helping.
I only use T1 for PvPing and I dont even use implants. I dont complain much. I only see everything in EvE as ISKs damage. If you wish to buy Hulks at 400M, dont cry because you are not helping. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Drizit
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Posted - 2006.05.20 14:31:00 -
[26]
I fully agree there. Which is probably why I have no T2 items myself apart from T2 Ab's which were cheap when I bought them but have considerably increased in price since.
I can afford them but why should I pay silly prices? Especially when some named T1 items are cheaper and actually better then the T2 items.
I can already mine with a covetor faster than my hauler can take it away. Why would I want to buy a Hulk for half a billion so I can overextend my hauler even more? Add to that, the price of T2 strip mining mods and T2 crystals for them and you have a real expensive bang when a player pirate finds you. It's probably the price of 30 fully equipped Covetors you've just lost in one almighty bang.
If you can afford that each time, you have too much isk.
--
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.05.20 15:42:00 -
[27]
If the price crashes, that guy that bought the BPO for 80billion is going to be screwed... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Atlas Oracle
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Posted - 2006.05.20 16:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hllaxiu bought the BPO for 80billion
good god!
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.20 18:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dak Hakin Hulk smash!
Indeed, Hulk smash roids.
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Akaiya Gurl
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Posted - 2006.05.20 18:35:00 -
[30]
I would not pay more than 150 mil for the hulk. It isn't all that much better than the covertor to be worth much more in my opinion.
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