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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
761
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Posted - 2014.06.26 13:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Khadhir Hashul wrote:Less players mean no game at all.
Or no updates, at the very least, which for a game like EVE would be death sentence. This 'argument' pops up in almost every thread. It's an incredibly silly argument because:
1) it has nothing to do with the gameplay
2) it could be used to support basically anything, from pink Hello Kitty style spaceships ('just think of all the little girls that would sub!!!') to hardcore avatar p0rn ('just think of all the pervs that would sub!!!')
3) while anybody that has played for a couple hundred hours can have something interesting to say about EVE - the game, nobody except CCP management has enough information to make meaningful comments on EVE - the business
TL;DR: Please focus on good ideas for better gameplay, not crap ideas just 'to get moar subs'. |
Iain Cariaba
In Over Our Heads
84
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Posted - 2014.06.27 20:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Google "Malcanis' Law" If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1353
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Posted - 2014.06.29 00:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
Min/Maxer tears. Good. The Tears Must Flow |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1280
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Posted - 2014.07.02 22:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
I don't support this idea. The reasons have been well stated already, highest one being the Gank fleets.
On the other hand . . .
I do like the idea of character choice mentioned earlier.
Even add 'tackle' as one of the initial professions.
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
132
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Posted - 2014.07.03 12:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Quote:People are meant to play a game for fun, and barriers to entry like this do nothing but make new players, opening whatever guides they find for the first time, decide 'oh well, I'm not playing this game for that long anyway'. When I started Eve the incredibly deep, varied & long skill queue was one of the biggest attractions to the game. It creates a real sense of goal setting and a meaningful reward for making a choice in the game of what to train next.
I also think you're overstating the need for Core skills to all 5's. 3's and 4's are quick - and usually a ship only begs for a 5 in a particular skill. I definitely don't think Navigation skills should be handed out like candy. They are a real choice in the game that should not be watered down.
I agree that keeping paying players benefits us all, but I don't think your proposal is the way to go. I mean, what's next -- free monocles for all?? |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
386
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Posted - 2014.07.10 14:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:I think , new characters. First on each account , during creation should get a possible scheme to choose: - miner - industry - hauling - gunnery specialist - missile specialist - drone specialist
This will be good for eve: - new players will be capable of doing something - more players -> more fun for others / more isk for ccp
This idea is actually pretty solid. Not only does it solve a little of the day zero pain, it gives new players the ability to test out the various things the game has to offer before committing to a given path. Yes, I know, that's what the current starter area missions are for, but even with those, you're looking at a couple of days training for each, which feels like a lot to a new player. With this proposal, it's as quick as make another character, pick a new path, log in, start the feels.
It also avoids Malcanis' Law in it's most extreme form. This is because most older players rolling alt accounts are going to stuff their heads with high end implants anyway (ones new players can't afford), which means that said alts would only have a day or two advantage at most, when compared to the current system. Not much, when you consider that said alts are usually purpose built, and focus trained. |
Iain Cariaba
Veritas Theory
111
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Posted - 2014.07.10 18:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:With this proposal, it's as quick as make another character, pick a new path, log in, start the feels. Thus is the flaw. There's already so much whining over alleged throw-away alts that this would make the carebear population's heads explode in indignation. Disclaimer: My opinion does not necessarily reflect that of my corp or alliance. My opinion is my own, and if you don't like, that is your problem. |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
394
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Posted - 2014.07.11 01:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:With this proposal, it's as quick as make another character, pick a new path, log in, start the feels. Thus is the flaw. There's already so much whining over alleged throw-away alts that this would make the carebear population's heads explode in indignation. I can see that point, but to be quite frank, what doesn't make their heads explode? People make "throw-away alts" now. How would a day or two worth of training time make that any worse? |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1602
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Posted - 2014.08.07 14:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
If it were to be done, I'd support the removal of the increase ships PG/CPU fitting skills. They're short but also so mandatory they're pointless. Ships should just have the grid and CPU. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart." -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Sean Apollo
Rising Storm. The Unthinkables
23
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Posted - 2014.08.08 13:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:If it were to be done, I'd support the removal of the increase ships PG/CPU fitting skills. They're short but also so mandatory they're pointless. Ships should just have the grid and CPU.
Why take away something that's such big part of the game though? Eve is a game of time the more time you put into it the better you become. If someone chooses to use his/her time to train fitting skills then he should have more fitting options.
Here's an example: Pilot 1 has decided he want to use time to get his fitting skills up
Pilot 2 has chosen to train gunnery skills and can now use t2 guns.
Both these pilots meet in low sec in a plex both have the same PvP experience and are both using the same ship. Being brawler fits they go at each other. pilot 2 is tearing through pilot 1's shields and is about to get into pilot 1's armor, when he gets there it is taking quite a long time to make a dent in his armor while his own armor tank is dropping faster, why? Because pilot 1 trained fitting skills he was able to squeeze on a 1600 plate and fit T2 hardeners. Pilot 2 had a very tight fit and had to do a 800 plate and meta 4 hardeners to be able to fully fit his ship.
So what's my point? My point is the impact of the different skills. It adds so much variety and makes the game more fun.
Imagine if we were talking about gunnery support skills. It makes a huge impact to the experience of eve, and adds so much variety. I think you would only hurt the game by removing them.
Sorry for the long post, I hope I was able to make my point. Most people hate me... |
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2098
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Posted - 2014.08.10 16:50:22 -
[41] - Quote
Khadhir Hashul wrote: (message truncated, no coherent argument detected)
The problem here is that you want to start out at the top. That's not how EVE works. Your SP isn't the only thing that matters. It's mostly how YOU fly the ship, not how your character does. You NEED that skill training time to learn how to effectively play the game at each level. Flying a HAC is not the same as flying a T1 Cruiser. Flying a Frigate of any kind is completely different from nearly everything else.
If you ask me, I think everyone should be at "all skills to Lvl5" on SiSi, just to show players who think like you exactly how wrong you truly are when you speculate things like this.
This is one of the many reasons CCP won't let guys who take a year out of the game "buy back" their "lost" skill points. You need to progress, naturally, or you will end up hating the game and quitting. Removing all skills would require a pretty massive overhaul of the game, and lots of stuff would be broken. Not to mention the ability to immediately jump into a carrier the day you start playing would make the game incredibly boring.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
146
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Posted - 2014.08.14 14:24:43 -
[42] - Quote
OH no you mean i cant start with max skills!!!!!! i guess other mmos should let you start with the best gear in the game at lvl 1 Too
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Brisco County
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
100
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Posted - 2014.10.07 04:22:51 -
[43] - Quote
they should start you out with purpz and leganderiez 2! |
XxGITxX
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.10.24 07:08:23 -
[44] - Quote
Just be glad that you started playing after they removed learnkng skills. Kids these days don't realise how lucky they are :D |
Jenna Olgidar
OutLawed Country Inc. Outlaw Nation.
5
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Posted - 2014.11.04 14:02:24 -
[45] - Quote
Yeah I Don't think giving everyone 20 mil SP making the game better for anyone.
I think that all Standard Core skills should be injected from the start. i.e. mechanic, shield operation, etc
now i think new players should start with some unallicated skill points. like maybe 3 to 4 mil. I believe that is enough for someone to get into a ship of there choice and possibly of fitting.
however with someone that knows what there doing they can take them skill points make a cyno alt or gang squad with trial a players and go camp a gate or do something and cause massive problems.
-Olga
So yeah like my post.
-Olga
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Signal11th
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1442
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:41:38 -
[46] - Quote
One of the most idiotic ideas I've heard recently. Personally it's one of the major reasons I play EVE the fact I don't have to be some basement dwelling window licker who can spend all day killing chickens.
Powered by-áreaTh-áFilter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of-áany-ácorp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a-ásh*t anyway.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
3690
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Posted - 2014.11.25 01:17:46 -
[47] - Quote
The three skills I would endorse changing start with CPU Management and PG Management, as ships are just crippled without them. They'd still be high priorities to train at 1% (with the base CPU and PG of ships changed to preserve their current stats at level 5).
The final skill is AWU, which I would gate behind WU 4 instead of WU 5.
These changes would help gankers a little, but less than people seem to think, as most ganking is not done by low skilled characters any more. The changes would also indirectly harm us, as lowskilled haulers and miners would be more able to fit a tank to their ships.
I'd be for the change for what it would do to new players and (as with any change to the game) I'd also seek to exploit it a little, but that would be a minor factor.
I don't endorse wholesale removal of the core skills, just adjustment of the absolutely mandatory ones.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1972
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Posted - 2014.11.25 03:50:02 -
[48] - Quote
I have been spending time in the Rookie Help channel and listening to the new players. They are not complaining about skills, they are trying to figure out how to fly the ship, how to make some isk, why autopilot is a bad idea and where did all the asteroids go.
No, a 20 million sp starter pack would not be for the new player, no matter how you pretty up the rhetoric. It would be for the alt, the second character when you know what skills you wish you had trained the first time. The New Player Experience needs work. That is why I am in there listening and taking notes. But the learning curve is not solved by using a catapult to launch them half way up the side of the cliff face.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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The Hamilton
Outer Ring Sleeper Collective Illusion of Solitude
92
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Posted - 2014.11.25 10:41:51 -
[49] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I have been spending time in the Rookie Help channel and listening to the new players. They are not complaining about skills, they are trying to figure out how to fly the ship, how to make some isk, why autopilot is a bad idea and where did all the asteroids go.
No, a 20 million sp starter pack would not be for the new player, no matter how you pretty up the rhetoric. It would be for the alt, the second character when you know what skills you wish you had trained the first time. The New Player Experience needs work. That is why I am in there listening and taking notes. But the learning curve is not solved by using a catapult to launch them half way up the side of the cliff face.
m
What about a better range of civilian modules? Things that will only go onto a rookie ship but are faster than skilling to an extent within the first week. Also easier access to these for that time?
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Longtom McGregor
Perkone Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2014.11.27 18:42:31 -
[50] - Quote
Set new character skills to absolutely zero starting out new characters can not even leave a station until they've figured out how to train frigates to 1 Cant mine until they've figured out how to train mining to 1 Set new player bank accounts to zero.
I was shocked at how many skills my little new player had...
This should not be... |
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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
635
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Posted - 2014.11.27 18:50:08 -
[51] - Quote
The Hamilton wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:I have been spending time in the Rookie Help channel and listening to the new players. They are not complaining about skills, they are trying to figure out how to fly the ship, how to make some isk, why autopilot is a bad idea and where did all the asteroids go.
No, a 20 million sp starter pack would not be for the new player, no matter how you pretty up the rhetoric. It would be for the alt, the second character when you know what skills you wish you had trained the first time. The New Player Experience needs work. That is why I am in there listening and taking notes. But the learning curve is not solved by using a catapult to launch them half way up the side of the cliff face.
m
What about a better range of civilian modules? Things that will only go onto a rookie ship but are faster than skilling to an extent within the first week. Also easier access to these for that time?
I can support a better range of civilian items, gives newbies a cheap even for them way to try things out if they arent sure what they want to do.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
2090
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Posted - 2014.12.08 03:29:41 -
[52] - Quote
I will ask about better civ stuff when module tiericide hits (if I am still on CSM)
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1635
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Posted - 2014.12.08 07:19:44 -
[53] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I will ask about better civ stuff when module tiericide hits (if I am still on CSM)
m Yeah, what happened with module tiericide? Haven't heard anything since that first dev blog.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
26780
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 07:34:31 -
[54] - Quote
core skills are the most OP skills by rank, for just how many ships and activities they influence.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Signal11th
1520
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Posted - 2014.12.12 16:20:20 -
[55] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:core skills are the most OP skills by rank, for just how many ships and activities they influence.
and also amongst the easiest to get. Most new players just suffer from the same mind set that most kids have recently, get the biggest thing possible for the least amount of work.
Eve is enjoyable because if you put the effort in you get the rewards.
Powered by reaTh Filter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of any corp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a sh*t anyway.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and wo
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
26989
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Posted - 2014.12.12 17:06:59 -
[56] - Quote
wait that's what i said. theyre OP because their rank is low.
as you become more of an experienced player, the only people left to kill you are less experienced players. its not so crazy to think less experienced players can harm you. im pretty sure the purpose of SP is not invulnerability.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion The Bloc
64
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Posted - 2015.01.01 04:39:44 -
[57] - Quote
Wouldn't we need new skills for dreads. and marauders. and hacs and t3s and recon and covops and eaf and probably some other ships because they have fitting skill requirement prereqs? |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
185
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Posted - 2015.01.09 16:13:45 -
[58] - Quote
Just people that want it easier because they don't want to waste time to train Capacitor skills to 5 in order to better use their cap for higher regen, capacity, gun/tank/ab usage.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29357
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Posted - 2015.01.09 16:43:14 -
[59] - Quote
I've said it in a lot of places now, and I'll say it again here. I disagree with skill prerequisites for T2 ships being so extensive. Their selection is hasty and don't represent a strong foundation for their ships. Seriously, the person who picked out the skills to comprise prerequisites... do they even play?
The message to new players is very clear: if you want this ship, you must pay us for some months of subscription. It's one of the most blatant examples of money-for-stuff in EVE.
Along the left side of that table you'll see a number, which is the total training time multiplier for the level V skills required as prerequisites. There's a pretty clear correlation between time and ship size. "specialization is specialization hurr durr more time," is about the depth of thought behind the list.
Couple things I think should be changed:
skill level I prerequisites to allow T2 ships to undock within 2 weeks at most (for the Marauder, for example). This way, rookies who choose the hasty route to a shiny T2 ship get what they want, and also get what they trained for: a weak ship.
OR
devs spend more time creating a thoughtful list of prerequisites that represent a solid foundation of skills for the same amount of training as the dumb / current list.
OP's gripe about core skills being responsible for some type of rift between themselves and veterans is bollocks, as it's one of the core mechanics of EVE. However, the structure of skills laid out in ship prerequisites is bollocks, too.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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