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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 45 post(s) |
TopTrader
Tech3 Company Avaricious Cartel
0
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Posted - 2014.05.10 17:03:00 -
[691] - Quote
Did i read it right, these teams are public, thought its a personal thing? |
Sigras
Conglomo
761
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Posted - 2014.05.10 23:59:00 -
[692] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Just a thought but isn;t null industry already clumped around very few outposts? Doesn't this make it very easy for the industrialists there to chip in small amounts that aggregate and guarantee the best teams (therefore best profits)? This pushes more S&I advantage into null i would think? You really think null sec can compete with the high sec industrialists? Even the goons cant compete with jita. |
Sigras
Conglomo
761
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Posted - 2014.05.11 00:11:00 -
[693] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Teams: Large, rich, powerful corps become ever larger, richer and more powerful and new, small, casual corps get crushed.
And if you try to move materials into a system that they've loaded up with all the best teams expect to have to run a gank gauntlet.
It seems that CCP wants every player in the game to be a goon. Resistance is futile.
There is soooooooo much to hate and so little to like about this summer's release. If cloaky camping had not already caused me to unsub all my accounts, these industry changes most certainly would. If I were sticking around, I'd simply stop manufacturing anything and just sell the mine and sell the minerals. The new system is going to be so overly manipulated by the goons that it will simply not be worth it to build anything. Clearly you're unable to see past your own biases... Can I have your stuff?
Large corps are going to duke it out paying for the best teams and the smaller groups are going to just be able to move in and take advantage for free... then when the system gets too crowded and the costs get too high, you can just leave. Unless you're an idiot and pack your freighter full of megacyte or something stupid like that.
This is a buff to small mobile corps not a nerf. |
Kusum Fawn
State Protectorate Caldari State
458
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Posted - 2014.05.11 00:42:00 -
[694] - Quote
Sigras wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Just a thought but isn;t null industry already clumped around very few outposts? Doesn't this make it very easy for the industrialists there to chip in small amounts that aggregate and guarantee the best teams (therefore best profits)? This pushes more S&I advantage into null i would think? You really think null sec can compete with the high sec industrialists? Even the goons cant compete with jita. because of manufacturing slot availability and pre-nerfed pos modules.
of which are about to change. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Kusum Fawn
State Protectorate Caldari State
458
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Posted - 2014.05.11 00:45:00 -
[695] - Quote
Sigras wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Teams: Large, rich, powerful corps become ever larger, richer and more powerful and new, small, casual corps get crushed.
And if you try to move materials into a system that they've loaded up with all the best teams expect to have to run a gank gauntlet.
It seems that CCP wants every player in the game to be a goon. Resistance is futile.
There is soooooooo much to hate and so little to like about this summer's release. If cloaky camping had not already caused me to unsub all my accounts, these industry changes most certainly would. If I were sticking around, I'd simply stop manufacturing anything and just sell the mine and sell the minerals. The new system is going to be so overly manipulated by the goons that it will simply not be worth it to build anything. Clearly you're unable to see past your own biases... Can I have your stuff? Large corps are going to duke it out paying for the best teams and the smaller groups are going to just be able to move in and take advantage for free... then when the system gets too crowded and the costs get too high, you can just leave. Unless you're an idiot and pack your freighter full of megacyte or something stupid like that. This is a buff to small mobile corps not a nerf. you forget the amount of materials that it will take to make such a move profitable, and with the increased risk of gank gauntlets player motivation to follow such a nomadic lifestyle goes down. the cost of freighters will go up before the cost of ganking one will. another hit against doing such a move. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
469
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Posted - 2014.05.11 15:43:00 -
[696] - Quote
Sigras wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Just a thought but isn;t null industry already clumped around very few outposts? Doesn't this make it very easy for the industrialists there to chip in small amounts that aggregate and guarantee the best teams (therefore best profits)? This pushes more S&I advantage into null i would think? You really think null sec can compete with the high sec industrialists? Even the goons cant compete with jita.
They don't want to compete with jita they want trade hubs in null totally goon controlled and without all the nasty jump fuel costs of transport...why not? It's what i would try to engineer...
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7362
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Posted - 2014.05.11 16:56:00 -
[697] - Quote
Sigras wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Just a thought but isn;t null industry already clumped around very few outposts? Doesn't this make it very easy for the industrialists there to chip in small amounts that aggregate and guarantee the best teams (therefore best profits)? This pushes more S&I advantage into null i would think? You really think null sec can compete with the high sec industrialists? Even the goons cant compete with jita. we can't now at all, yeah
but we'll see what we can do once we get the tools Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
tx eight
The Dry Stout Society
1
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Posted - 2014.05.11 20:43:00 -
[698] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:
we can't now at all, yeah
but we'll see what we can do once we get the tools
You can't compete with yourself now. What makes you think "the tools" will change that? |
Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
48
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Posted - 2014.05.11 20:55:00 -
[699] - Quote
That doesn't make any sense at all. Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege.-á |
Kusum Fawn
State Protectorate Caldari State
459
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Posted - 2014.05.11 21:00:00 -
[700] - Quote
tx eight wrote:Weaselior wrote:
we can't now at all, yeah
but we'll see what we can do once we get the tools
You can't compete with yourself now. What makes you think "the tools" will change that?
....
When he says "we can't now .." He means
"we [the Goons] can't now at all, .. {compete with Jita] but we'll see what we can do when we get the tools [unlimited slots in stations and upgraded pos manufacturing/refining - Summer industry expansion] "
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Malcanis
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
15447
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Posted - 2014.05.11 21:08:00 -
[701] - Quote
Since hi-sec will get exactly those same tools, I suspect that what he's mostly referring to is the better refining efficiency along with the ability to monopolise teams attracted to 0.0 systems. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" |
tx eight
The Dry Stout Society
1
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Posted - 2014.05.11 21:15:00 -
[702] - Quote
Well, think about it.
Who is going to compete with whom? There are only so many people in this game that are able and find it fun to organize significantly large-scale production. It does not matter where this production is right now - as conditions change with the summer release, they will adjust. Those that won't are only good for the many ragequit post all over the forums lately. Irrelevant.
So we shed from the consideration those that can't face a(ny) challenge. Who are we left with? Those that can. Where are the majority of them them? Nullsec, with alts in hisec. Or the other way around. So, given that the US TZ is dominant, and the nullsec is currently called "the blue donut", where are the majority of them? Right there - flying null, producing in high. Or the other way around, it doesn't matter. So as the currenlty most numerous part of the "blue donut", your competition ends up being your own alts.
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Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
48
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 21:18:00 -
[703] - Quote
Sounds like your 'problem' is well beyond the scope of kronos. Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege.-á |
tx eight
The Dry Stout Society
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 21:36:00 -
[704] - Quote
I wouldn't call that a problem.
But you are right.
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Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.05.11 21:51:00 -
[705] - Quote
I don't know where these highsec manufacturing alts are. Every time I warp into a new region, if I check the manufacturing slots available it shows green (availability now) for the whole region, except maybe 1 or 2 stations that have jobs installed to run for 1 day, though usually it's 5 or 6 hours. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
207
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 22:12:00 -
[706] - Quote
Sigras wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Teams: Large, rich, powerful corps become ever larger, richer and more powerful and new, small, casual corps get crushed.
And if you try to move materials into a system that they've loaded up with all the best teams expect to have to run a gank gauntlet.
It seems that CCP wants every player in the game to be a goon. Resistance is futile.
There is soooooooo much to hate and so little to like about this summer's release. If cloaky camping had not already caused me to unsub all my accounts, these industry changes most certainly would. If I were sticking around, I'd simply stop manufacturing anything and just sell the mine and sell the minerals. The new system is going to be so overly manipulated by the goons that it will simply not be worth it to build anything. Clearly you're unable to see past your own biases... Can I have your stuff? Large corps are going to duke it out paying for the best teams and the smaller groups are going to just be able to move in and take advantage for free... then when the system gets too crowded and the costs get too high, you can just leave. Unless you're an idiot and pack your freighter full of megacyte or something stupid like that. This is a buff to small mobile corps not a nerf. This is a buff to the already well organised indy players. Smaller indy guys won't be able to compete with the larger guys, the wardec system in eve ensures - the big guy wins.
Large indy corps will not "duke it out", they will have no need to. They have existed side by side for years now in different systems with different products and resources. This isn't going to change anything for the big guys, except possibly reduce profit margins a little until they have worked out how to best manipulate the system for "best outcome".
Smaller indy guys will be forced to move expensive BPO's and supplies around from place to place to get to "best outcome". Large established Indy corp uses wardec mercenary corp / alliance. Risk V Reward for moving those costly assets to a system with "best outcome" just became - Not worth it.
I'm pretty sure well established industry was represented on last years CSM, I wonder what their take on the indy changes is.
The plan seems to have been - Well established Indy players don't like too much competition - Lets help them further reduce it. My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1495
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 14:32:00 -
[707] - Quote
How will team bidding work in wormhole systems? +1 |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
680
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Posted - 2014.05.13 15:14:00 -
[708] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:How will team bidding work in wormhole systems?
Same as every where else. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1495
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 15:22:00 -
[709] - Quote
^ okay
Quote:The only way to monopolize a team is to get it to a system with no public stations (for instance where you have an Outpost).
That's a pretty good incentive for doing industry in a wormhole, i guess.
+1 |
Chaos Primal
Primal Machinations
0
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Posted - 2014.05.13 18:40:00 -
[710] - Quote
So basically its still going to be impossible to get everything we need to produce what little a single player needs to be self sufficient, but now with the added bonus that one of the few nice solo PvE actives in EVE is now going to quickly become a largely PvP task as industrial corps will be forced to compete. At the same time attempting to build anything without a large amount of corp support is going to be a total waste of ISK, better to force us to stay close to market hubs and make said PvP as logistically impossible as it has always been.
Thanks for once more making the game even more implausible to play without being a social butterfly able to spend their entire lifetime on the computer. |
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Stupid Flanders
Planet Express LLC
0
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Posted - 2014.05.14 00:57:00 -
[711] - Quote
Not a fan. Seems like it takes any predictability out of the industry side of the game. Just another kick in the groin of the casual industrial people who need to maximize every bit of profit they can. Maybe this will finally break my addiction to to throwing money at CCP. |
Chaos Primal
Primal Machinations
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 22:42:00 -
[712] - Quote
Stupid Flanders wrote:Not a fan. Seems like it takes any predictability out of the industry side of the game. Just another kick in the groin of the casual industrial people who need to maximize every bit of profit they can. Maybe this will finally break my addiction to to throwing money at CCP.
Plus 1 |
Odoya
Aeon Abraxas Abraxas Industrial
3
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Posted - 2014.05.22 17:05:00 -
[713] - Quote
These changes are nonsensical in the context of other more "Eve like" opportunities to deal with the proximity of manufacturing to market access dynamics. Why not just let people see which other players are hogging system resources and let war dec mechanics sort out access to resources? While slots are going away, if we could easily see which players hog which resources, the basic idea behind Eve could be put into effect. Let the basic war dynamic cull industry.
The narrative idea of workforce burnt out on drug use is obnoxious and as an asthetic or logic seems unsophisticated. Specialized labor forces, let's say surgeons, are not highly trained and then set up to be ticking time bombs. The analogy as is is more like workers putting out run away reactor fires. The narrative analogy for the workforce, while not a game mechanic per se, is off putting. If the booster analogy is going forward, why not make it a player side modifier? Keeping a workforce in place increases the value of that system relative to another system.
Why not use other narrative elements to motivate market hub diffusion? Like, why not tax Gallente products made in Caldari systems (or npc faction stations in a system, etc.)? Or integrate the uniqueid on items like ships to tax items based on their manufactured system vs selling system? Many smaller market hubs might pop up along trade routes as manufacturers move to systems for positive, not negative reasons. Incent people to spread out, do not punish them for staying.
Also, admittedly obscure, why introduce cost factors that are essentially arbitrary inflation? Resource contention by system as expressed in labor costs has a game narrative appeal, but it will cause a downstream cost where every upstream provider in the manfucturing chain does not benefit. More isk will be required to buy the same product, but that incresed isk leaves game play. It is a form of usury that undercuts the genius of something like PLEX if we consider that PLEX checks the hyperinflation and appeal of gold farmers in a game. Inflation may be inevitable but why fan the flames?
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Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
477
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Posted - 2014.05.28 23:10:00 -
[714] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Teams: Large, rich, powerful corps become ever larger, richer and more powerful and new, small, casual corps get crushed.
And if you try to move materials into a system that they've loaded up with all the best teams expect to have to run a gank gauntlet.
It seems that CCP wants every player in the game to be a goon. Resistance is futile.
There is soooooooo much to hate and so little to like about this summer's release. If cloaky camping had not already caused me to unsub all my accounts, these industry changes most certainly would. If I were sticking around, I'd simply stop manufacturing anything and just sell the mine and sell the minerals. The new system is going to be so overly manipulated by the goons that it will simply not be worth it to build anything.
This one is gonna cost more subs than even Incarna/Greed is Good!
3 from me...keepin a couple just to Gank Goons. Had the plexs since they were 400M
Nerf Goons
Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure. |
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven
68
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 12:57:00 -
[715] - Quote
edit: |
RudinV
Syndicate of Death BLOOD UNION
337
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 22:24:00 -
[716] - Quote
More excel to the god of excel!
Ps: CCP can u sell some inferno? Looks like it will be essential to be junky to play this sht |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
238
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 05:41:00 -
[717] - Quote
1st off - Is what is on SISI now what we end up with on TQ come Cruis? If yes, NOT GOOD there is sooooooo much wrong here it is hard to know where to start. Team Chartering - What are the arrows (up down tab) for, when "TEAM CHARTERING" is at the top (arrows facing down) it is populated, when the name is at the bottom (search for new teams), it remains un-populated, without selecting 2 of 9 or 10 available options. World, Region, System option for searching for teams you may want to bid on seems a little pointless, or is there a cost related to how far they have to travel.
Once you have the right type of teams selected (maybe) you can start mousing over each one to see what it does - Don't expect too much here, again there is a severe lack of useful information. Relevant information is Greyed out and requires 20 X 20 vision (or better) to read, as it is not highlighted when mousing over the team. Allotek Industries - Specialties, Capital class -1%, Carrier -4% ( I think, it is really quite difficult to read) Salary 5% Zero-G Research - Capital class - 4%, Salary 6% Your putting something new out there - Label it (so users know what - 1, they are looking at - 2, what to look for)
Sort of populated- the whole middle section "Specialties" is barely ledgible, having to mouse over every single team to find the 1 that might suit you is painful overly complicated and time consuming, to say the least. On top of that I had to get 5 inches from my screen to read the % in their specialties, being an older guy with failing eyesight really does suck when Devs don't take you into consideration during design stage.
Just curious; Archon BPO - Researching to lvl 3 (I think, interface says job runs No Skills required 1 day, 5 hrs, 45 mins 165,584 isk Why would one even bother paying extra for a specialized team, which by looking at the available information is going to add to the cost? - - - - I tried to install a job, simply to see the process complete. After several attempts, the outcome is below. Information; Job not installed Unable to install job due to the following reasons: The job cost has changed
Error.MISMATCH_COST (165584, 180550) Seems there might be something wrong with job installation process. I didn't change anything, except the job runs, which gave the same result each time but with varying "mismatch_cost".
- - - - - - Team Auction - You can't actually bid on teams on SISI - Enter a system in "Search for solar system", "Enter amount" and "Bid" button stays greyed out. There is no explanation as to why, it just doesn't activate. - - - - - - Is there some logic behind - 1 ME = 5 hrs, 15 mins, 10,666 isk 2ME = 12 hrs, 30 mins, 49,303 isk 3 ME = 1 day, 5 hrs, 45 mins, 165,584 isk With unlimited slots, I'll just put it in for 1 ME @ 5 hours & 10,666 isk each day until I get it to maximum ME of 10. It will take me 10 days and cost 106,660 isk. By my (horrible) math it works out far cheaper than using teams & or doing multiple runs. My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
StinGer ShoGuN
Pragmatic Kernel Rat Pack Renegades
12
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 15:34:00 -
[718] - Quote
OK, I thing this is gonna be lost in the middle of everything, but I'll say it anyway: I've just tested the new UI on Sisi and I miss something. When hiring a team, if it has time bonus(es), you immediately see if you are actually gaining or loosing money. Great.
But with material bonus(es), you have to do the maths on your own: you see an increase on the job cost, but you don't see if this compensates for the reduced materials. For instance, let's say I hire a team with a 13% salary (DAMN SCAMMERS !!!!) which gives a 5% bonus on ships manufacturing. Job cost is higher, but I don't see immediately by how much material cost is reduced. One has to hover over the materials and check costs with and without team to calculate the difference...
I think a total material cost somewhere, with estimated prices, would be awesome. So that on the left for instance, we read the material cost value, and on the left, the building cost value (and maybe somewhere, add the total).
My 2 cents. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
713
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 16:55:00 -
[719] - Quote
When looking t the benefits vs cost of a team, I agree and posted in the relevant thread about making the cost vs benefit of teams clearer.
It makes no sense for a team to give say 2.5% greater ME efficiency, and then cost you 6% in salary. I'm betting that the 6% would be 6% of the install fee, not the job market value. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
456
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 21:02:00 -
[720] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: Is there some logic behind - 1 ME = 5 hrs, 15 mins, 10,666 isk 2ME = 12 hrs, 30 mins, 49,303 isk 3 ME = 1 day, 5 hrs, 45 mins, 165,584 isk With unlimited slots, I'll just put it in for 1 ME @ 5 hours & 10,666 isk each day until I get it to maximum ME of 10. It will take me 10 days and cost 106,660 isk. By my (horrible) math it works out far cheaper than using teams & or doing multiple runs.
yes, that each ME level costs more than the last
the reason 2ME costs more than twice as much as 1ME is that it's "time to ME1 + time to ME2" and each new time is longer than the previous
if you do them 1ME at a time it will take exactly as long and cost exactly as much |
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