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Vhelnik Cojoin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
33
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Posted - 2014.05.05 10:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:The Skiff is for people who are lazy multiboxing / temporarily alt-tabbed and want to replace the dilligence tediousness of babysitting D-scan every few seconds, not to mention feeding 3 versus 1 strip miners, with tanking modules a fair chance of survival. The Mackinaw is for people who have to haul.
FYP.
I would speculate that at least for HiSec the coming Hulk buffs will do little to change how frequently people fly that ship. CCP can nerf the other mining barges and exhumers into uselessness, yet I at least will only start flying Hulks even in mining fleets, if the added yield on that ship offsets the recurring ~ 200M ISK cost of regularly loosing one to suicide gankers.
Given the current anti-mining climate in HiSec I am much more likely to drop mining as an activity, if it becomes too unprofitable due to Skiff/Mackinaw nerfs. If I have to baby-sit my mining ship(s) absolutely every second I am in space, then I might as well just run L4 missions. As a 'solo' activity mining is only really profitable in ISK/ hour terms if you multi-box. D-scan every 6 seconds is simply not going to happen for me.
Note to CCP: Buffing the Hulk in order to 'balance' it is pointless, if it is still a 200M loot pinata made from wet tissue paper, in addition to being tedious to operate for multi-boxers. The tediousness comes from the combination of marginal ore bay size (exasperated by the coming yield buff), combined with the micro-management required to effectively feed 3 strip miners with a meager diet of small HiSec asteroids. |
Dave Stark
5276
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Posted - 2014.05.05 10:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Benny Ohu wrote: i'd bet the main reason people choose macks is the cargo and afkability.
This, if you could somehow dump straight to a can that your orca guy regularly scooped up the hulk would see a lot more use.
you mean like, sitting within 2km of the orca? |
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
661
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 11:06:00 -
[33] - Quote
I miss Hulks :'( |
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
19533
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 11:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
is this the reason why we don't have Hulkageddon anymore? Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase
I like to gank it, gank it!
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Sibyyl
668
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Posted - 2014.05.05 11:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
I never fly my Hulk, but I got one so I could name it 'Bruce'. Take solace knowing that even after the sun sets, and your sky is filled with darkness, that the sun is still shining. -D. Entervention Psychotic Monk joins BNI |
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
662
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 11:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
Liafcipe9000 wrote:is this the reason why we don't have Hulkageddon anymore?
can I pretend the answer to this is "yes" and not "Helicity does not have time/does not love us anymore" ? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3177
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 11:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote:Liafcipe9000 wrote:is this the reason why we don't have Hulkageddon anymore? can I pretend the answer to this is "yes" and not "Helicity does not have time/does not love us anymore" ? mackageddon sounds like macaroni and cheese gone horribly wrong |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3919
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 11:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote:Liafcipe9000 wrote:is this the reason why we don't have Hulkageddon anymore? can I pretend the answer to this is "yes" and not "Helicity does not have time/does not love us anymore" ?
Its ok
Im used to the people I love not loving me
Or even knowing who I was before I asked
"Does this smell like chloroform to you?" "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
18190
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 12:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:"Does this smell like chloroform to you?" Seduction, the new fragrance from the McCandless Clan.
Never go full Ripard |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3919
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 12:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:"Does this smell like chloroform to you?" Seduction, the new fragrance from the McCandless Clan.
Hi ya
http://bit.ly/1muMKl3 "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5251
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 12:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ilovetomine wrote:Now I don't mean this as a rant, at all, but as a pointer. Scordite is worth nearly as much as the most valuable ore, and formerly most valuable ore (not including mercoxit because because)
You got that back-to-front: the amount of high-end ore mined in relative safety has brought ABC down to the level of hi sec ores, which are now the most dangerous ones to mine.
Ilovetomine wrote: Any boat can mine scordite, etc. There should be a higher reward for the risk of said "null sec" boat, etc, if you catch my meaning.
Why should there be a higher reward for lower risk?
Ilovetomine wrote:I have also read that CCP plans to increase the value of ABC, + Hed + Hem. But I still don't really think that will put the hulk in a niche that it belongs, as a null-sec mining boat.
All this will achieve is pushing down the value of the ores that already contain the Mexallon being added to those ores. The null sec miners are flooding the market with their product, thus the value of their product is falling. The factors of risk, effort, reward and value are achieving a natural balance.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
18194
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 12:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Doreen Kaundur wrote:It's hard to want to invest in Hulks when events like Hulkageddon take place. Hulkageddon hasn't occurred in 2 years, although they're still dying by the dozen*.
*Yes it's a killboard link, but for a specific ship, not a specific kill.
Never go full Ripard |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
465
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 13:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:
Miners are however more likely to replace their Retrievers / Mackinaws with Procurers / Battle-Skiffs after being ganked.
Been this way for at least 6 months You seem to have overlooked the words I've emphasised in Tau's post. |
I Have 18Accounts
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.05.05 13:37:00 -
[44] - Quote
There won't be many hulks after industry change either.
CCP thinks people want to mine actively, hahahahaha.
With an ore hold of 8,500m3, the Hulk is always the worst vessel of choice. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3929
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 13:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:
Miners are however more likely to replace their Retrievers / Mackinaws with Procurers / Battle-Skiffs after being ganked.
Been this way for at least 6 months You seem to have overlooked the words I've emphasised in Tau's post.
What?
But it is more likely that miners replace their Rets and Macks with Procs and Skiffs after being ganked and has been that way for at least six months
Sorry, Im not seeing what Ive said that's wrong here "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Vhelnik Cojoin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 15:50:00 -
[46] - Quote
I Have 18Accounts wrote:CCP thinks people want to mine actively, hahahahaha.
Not sure exactly what you are getting at here, but it does sound as if it has been quite a while since you have been mining in HiSec...
Between the competition, the apparent limit(?) on HiSec asteroid size and the cycle times of strip miners, then HiSec 'AFK' mining hasn't really been a thing in a very, very long time. At the very best of times, then you may occasionally get about 4 complete cycles out of a single asteroid, and it had better be plain Veldspar.
With a solid Orca bonus each cycle takes about 120 s on a Mackinaw, which means that you may occasionally be able to leave your seat for 8 minutes at a time. This assumes that you have two suitably sized rocks available at the same time, and that you start your strip miners pretty much simultaneously.
However in reality this rarely comes to pass, as most asteroids with a valuable composition, like Scordite and Pyroxeres, are much, much smaller, even in a fairly empty solar system. Meaning you mostly get up to 2-3 complete cycles out of a single rock. Add to this that you frequently need to 'break' cycles or waste most of the time for the last cycle, and the result is that your strip miners are more likely than not to not be synchronized in time. IE. you'd better plan for being around pretty much most of the time while actively mining.
If you multi-box several mining ships, then you'd definitely need to be on station all the time.
The exception might be someone actually using some form of illegal botting software, which is against the ToS.
tl;dr: These days the whole 'bot-aspirancy AFK mining badness' is just a RP thing, which gankers like to use to justify their actions with. Nothing more.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3559
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 17:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:What?
But it is more likely that miners replace their Rets and Macks with Procs and Skiffs after being ganked and has been that way for at least six months
Sorry, Im not seeing what Ive said that's wrong here Degree is the point being made.
You are completely correct. However let's for arguments sake say 30% switch to a Procurer / SKiff now, and I was suggesting post-Kronos that number might be higher, like 60%.
If this is self-evident, then you can write it off to Oraac Ensor being pedantic about it... which is usually my job. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3944
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 17:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:What?
But it is more likely that miners replace their Rets and Macks with Procs and Skiffs after being ganked and has been that way for at least six months
Sorry, Im not seeing what Ive said that's wrong here Degree is the point being made. You are completely correct. However let's for arguments sake say 30% switch to a Procurer / SKiff now, and I was suggesting post-Kronos that number might be higher, like 60%. If this is self-evident, then you can write it off to Oraac Ensor being pedantic about it... which is usually my job.
lol
Well we agree and that's the important point.
And yes, the degree to which the likely hood is increasing is... also increasing too "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
517
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 18:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ilovetomine wrote:I remember CCP changing the hulls around, and eventually people stopped flying hulks. Why? Because of their paper thin tank and easy kill for gankers. A single catalyst can rip one to shreds before concord can ever arrive.
I don't think you know what you are talking about. Hulks and Macks have similar (terrible) tanks. The difference is that mac's have a decent cargo bay. Unless you have a fleet, macs will give higher profit margins than hulks do. If you want a tank fly a skiff. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Andronaxus
Greed is Good Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 18:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ilovetomine wrote:
On a side note... get rid of those wimpy old strip miner animations, and bring back the old one.
AGREED. There are no hullks because the purpose they serve...doesn't serve the players' purposes. Sad thing, really. Too much CCP meddling killed it.
Size should matter. A Hulk should have more storage capacity (50% more) than a retriever. Your own eyes and common sense argues this when you see them side-by-side.
As for the old animations? HECK, YES! That old off-and-on cutting beam animation is what drove me to love mining to begin with.
Bring it back! |
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
517
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 18:12:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:Between the competition, the apparent limit(?) on HiSec asteroid size and the cycle times of strip miners, then HiSec 'AFK' mining hasn't really been a thing in a very, very long time. At the very best of times, then you may occasionally get about 4 complete cycles out of a single asteroid, and it had better be plain Veldspar.
With a solid Orca bonus each cycle takes about 120 s on a Mackinaw, which means that you may occasionally be able to leave your seat for 8 minutes at a time. This assumes that you have two suitably sized rocks available at the same time, and that you start your strip miners pretty much simultaneously. EIGHT MINUTES! Do you realize how long this is? Try leaving your computer for eight minutes in any other setting. Market PVP, you get undercut before that often. Missions you'll have to toggle reps to avoid running out of cap every 1-2 minutes not to mention target management. Exploration requires you to always be active with scanning, hacking, or managing loot spew. Hell even traveling, you have to check local every 30 seconds to a minute, and use mwd/cloak at least that often when in a ship cruiser sized or larger.
Mining needs to be fixed. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1295
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 18:19:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jill Chastot wrote:Chester Huggins wrote:Out of curiosity, how useful do you think a shield transfer role would be for Hulks?
Like, give them a utility high, have barge and exhumer skills maybe affect shield transfer cycle time, and a role bonus to reduce fitting.
I'm wondering if this would help with the Hulk's fleet role, letting Hulk swarms help tank each other. Would this make Hulks overpowered, or not make much difference?
[Edit] Same for Covetors of course, although they wouldn't benefit from the Exhumer skill. WTB Battlehulk fleet. Can they actually fit weapons though? Or would they be using just their drones?
Drones only
check on youtube for JNB's pvp-hulk video
also note that that fit is no longer effective due to changes to the modules used. it's still a funny video however :D |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
18199
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 18:40:00 -
[53] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Jill Chastot wrote:Chester Huggins wrote:Out of curiosity, how useful do you think a shield transfer role would be for Hulks?
Like, give them a utility high, have barge and exhumer skills maybe affect shield transfer cycle time, and a role bonus to reduce fitting.
I'm wondering if this would help with the Hulk's fleet role, letting Hulk swarms help tank each other. Would this make Hulks overpowered, or not make much difference?
[Edit] Same for Covetors of course, although they wouldn't benefit from the Exhumer skill. WTB Battlehulk fleet. Can they actually fit weapons though? Or would they be using just their drones? Drones only check on youtube for JNB's pvp-hulk video also note that this fit is no longer effective due to changes to the some of the modules used. it's still a funny video however :D ^^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndWUlntJ58U
Never go full Ripard |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5630
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 18:47:00 -
[54] - Quote
If I remember correctly, aren't Hulks currently the 2nd most popular mining vessel? To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Vhelnik Cojoin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
34
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 20:45:00 -
[55] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Mining needs to be fixed. You should probably consider reading the rest of my post after your quote.
My point was that while it may appear to the uninitiated that mining is an AFK'able activity, in reality it isn't (if you actually intend to make ISK from it).
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