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Lothros Andastar
The Minutemen Li3 Federation
56
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Posted - 2014.05.05 13:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just to confirm I have the math correct, the New Rattlesnakes bonus of 275% damage to 2 drones (2 * 3.75 = 7.5) is the same as an Ishtar/Dominix's 50% bonus (at level 5) to 5 drones (5*1.5=7.5)?
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.05.05 13:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
yup |
John Ratcliffe
Sarumans Hand
267
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Posted - 2014.05.05 13:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
But without the optimal or tracking of the Domi. So crap basically. Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility
1016
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Posted - 2014.05.05 13:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:But without the optimal or tracking of the Domi. So crap basically. But with a great bonus to missile damage, so you will get higher DPS if you take advantage of it. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3171
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Posted - 2014.05.05 14:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
New rattler will have 6 lows and new tracking modules for low slots. You can get 2x BCU, 2x DDA, 2x Drone TE, Omni, missile rigs and a 5 slot tank with prop mod. I think it's probably going to be okay. Oh god. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
953
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Posted - 2014.05.05 14:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:But without the optimal or tracking of the Domi. So crap basically.
Except that if you try to get 6 guns and 6 damage mods onto a domi to give it rattlesnake dps, then you have a shield tank with 1 Omni, and a drone control range rig. That is the basis of the fits I use to shame rattlesnake pilots with on alliance chat with their pitiful 20m ticks.
After the patch if there are any aggressive pilots they should have an aggressive rattlesnake that can outrat my domi.
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.05.05 15:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:New rattler will have 6 lows and new tracking modules for low slots. You can get 2x BCU, 2x DDA, 2x Drone TE, Omni, missile rigs and a 5 slot tank with prop mod. I think it's probably going to be okay.
1075-1240 dps, congratulations, its a navy domi with bigger tank , 94km targeting range and 84km control range |
Blitz Apollo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2014.05.05 15:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Riot Girl wrote:New rattler will have 6 lows and new tracking modules for low slots. You can get 2x BCU, 2x DDA, 2x Drone TE, Omni, missile rigs and a 5 slot tank with prop mod. I think it's probably going to be okay. 1075-1240 dps, congratulations, its a navy domi with bigger tank , 94km targeting range and 84km control range
So it's not a Navy Domi. If it was, it would have the same tank, same targeting range and same control range, right?
It also has the extra drone health, meaning the drones you have are not going to get insta-popped if targetted. It has missiles that with skills will be worth 400+ DPS alone.
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.05.05 16:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Blitz Apollo wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Riot Girl wrote:New rattler will have 6 lows and new tracking modules for low slots. You can get 2x BCU, 2x DDA, 2x Drone TE, Omni, missile rigs and a 5 slot tank with prop mod. I think it's probably going to be okay. 1075-1240 dps, congratulations, its a navy domi with bigger tank , 94km targeting range and 84km control range So it's not a Navy Domi. If it was, it would have the same tank, same targeting range and same control range, right? It also has the extra drone health, meaning the drones you have are not going to get insta-popped if targetted. It has missiles that with skills will be worth 400+ DPS alone.
and 400 + 664 gardes is ? |
Blitz Apollo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2014.05.05 17:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Blitz Apollo wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Riot Girl wrote:New rattler will have 6 lows and new tracking modules for low slots. You can get 2x BCU, 2x DDA, 2x Drone TE, Omni, missile rigs and a 5 slot tank with prop mod. I think it's probably going to be okay. 1075-1240 dps, congratulations, its a navy domi with bigger tank , 94km targeting range and 84km control range So it's not a Navy Domi. If it was, it would have the same tank, same targeting range and same control range, right? It also has the extra drone health, meaning the drones you have are not going to get insta-popped if targetted. It has missiles that with skills will be worth 400+ DPS alone. and 400 + 664 gardes is ?
Is this a math's test?
I am not debating the fact it may do extra DPS or may not. My point is, it is going to be a lot more versatile and a lot easier to attain good DPS while maintaining a strong tank with. |
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John Ratcliffe
Sarumans Hand
267
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Posted - 2014.05.05 18:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
You're all missing the point. DPS is not as relevant as applied DPS. The T1 Domi is the best assisting sentry platform in the game. The Rattlesnake doesn't come close now and won't be any better after the patch. By assisting I mean doing Lvl 4s with 2 BS. The assisting BS lands, deploys sentries assigning them to the primary BS. The player alt tabs to the primary BS to wtfpwn the NPCs. The assisting BS isn't touched to the end of the mission, other than to replace any lost drones. So for the assisting BS, because it will never use high slot DPS, all that matters is drone DPS and how well it is applied. No other BS has the Drone optimal and tracking of the T1 Domi. Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.05.05 18:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Blitz Apollo wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Blitz Apollo wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Riot Girl wrote:New rattler will have 6 lows and new tracking modules for low slots. You can get 2x BCU, 2x DDA, 2x Drone TE, Omni, missile rigs and a 5 slot tank with prop mod. I think it's probably going to be okay. 1075-1240 dps, congratulations, its a navy domi with bigger tank , 94km targeting range and 84km control range So it's not a Navy Domi. If it was, it would have the same tank, same targeting range and same control range, right? It also has the extra drone health, meaning the drones you have are not going to get insta-popped if targetted. It has missiles that with skills will be worth 400+ DPS alone. and 400 + 664 gardes is ? Is this a math's test? I am not debating the fact it may do extra DPS or may not. My point is, it is going to be a lot more versatile and a lot easier to attain good DPS while maintaining a strong tank with.
Unfortunately without examples your point is void of informational value. |
Blitz Apollo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2014.05.05 19:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote: Unfortunately without examples your point is void of informational value.
Examples? If you think this is just a re-skin of a Navy Domi you are very, very wrong.
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Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility
1022
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Posted - 2014.05.05 19:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Navy Domi has to consider tracking and application from guns when attaining such high DPS numbers. The Ratler just drops drones and hits the missiles. Both will serve a purpose post-patch, which is exactly what CCP wants. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3173
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Posted - 2014.05.05 19:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:You're all missing the point. DPS is not as relevant as applied DPS. Rattler has plenty of fittings to accommodate for damage application.
Oh god. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2014.05.05 19:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:You're all missing the point. DPS is not as relevant as applied DPS. Rattler has plenty of fittings to accommodate for damage application.
I believe he was talking about a complete unpiloted, afk asist bunny.
Not exactly anything but niche, far from the basis of a decent complaint. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3173
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Posted - 2014.05.05 20:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yeah, I didn't read the full post as he is a notoriously bad poster. Now I've gone back and read his post, I wish I hadn't. Oh god. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3173
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Posted - 2014.05.05 20:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:1075-1240 dps, congratulations, its a navy domi with bigger tank , 94km targeting range and 84km control range Gecko will get 1100 DPS alone, apparently.
Oh god. |
John Ratcliffe
Sarumans Hand
267
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Posted - 2014.05.05 20:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
afkalt wrote:I believe he was talking about a complete unpiloted, afk asist bunny.
Not exactly anything but niche, far from the basis of a decent complaint.
Hardly niche.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
John Ratcliffe
Sarumans Hand
267
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Posted - 2014.05.05 20:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Yeah, I didn't read the full post as he is a notoriously bad poster. Now I've gone back and read his post, I wish I hadn't.
I am? I hadn't realised I had achieved such notoriety. Thanks for bring me up to speed.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
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Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
185
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Posted - 2014.05.05 20:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:afkalt wrote:I believe he was talking about a complete unpiloted, afk asist bunny.
Not exactly anything but niche, far from the basis of a decent complaint. Hardly niche.
Dualboxing level fours with one account untouched is very niche. These missions are not hard, you don't need two ships. You'd be much better off using two Rattlesnakes and running two missions at once.
Also, why would you use a BS for this at all? Use an Ishtar, it's better for this kind of strategy in literally every way. |
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
200
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Posted - 2014.05.05 20:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:afkalt wrote:I believe he was talking about a complete unpiloted, afk asist bunny.
Not exactly anything but niche, far from the basis of a decent complaint. Hardly niche.
Because everyone in the game runs missions with an AFK sentry-Domi alt? AMIRITE? Warning: Sarcasm Above. |
John Ratcliffe
Sarumans Hand
267
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Posted - 2014.05.05 21:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Xequecal wrote: Dualboxing level fours with one account untouched is very niche. These missions are not hard, you don't need two ships. You'd be much better off using two Rattlesnakes and running two missions at once.
Also, why would you use a BS for this at all? Use an Ishtar, it's better for this kind of strategy in literally every way.
Single boxing (2 accounts on same PC) actually. It's not about difficulty, it's about speed. Obviously I could do the missions with a single ship, but it's far quicker with two.
I agree, an Ishtar would be better, but I can't fly one. So, until I can, I'm stuck with the Domi.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
John Ratcliffe
Sarumans Hand
267
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Posted - 2014.05.05 21:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Last Wolf wrote:Because everyone in the game runs missions with an AFK sentry-Domi alt? AMIRITE?
Why don't you make a poll?
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.05.05 21:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:Navy Domi has to consider tracking and application from guns when attaining such high DPS numbers. The Ratler just drops drones and hits the missiles. Both will serve a purpose post-patch, which is exactly what CCP wants.
And the rattler does not have to consider target velocity, especially burning from range? |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.05.05 21:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Blitz Apollo wrote:Quote: Unfortunately without examples your point is void of informational value. Examples? If you think this is just a re-skin of a Navy Domi you are very, very wrong.
I didnt say that. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
383
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Posted - 2014.05.05 23:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Also, why would you use a BS for this at all? Use an Ishtar, it's better for this kind of strategy in literally every way. Not trolling, just curious: One of the big advantages of the BS hulls (as I see it) for sentry drone work is the LMJD. If you can't kill stuff before the get under your tracking, point in a random direction, activate the LMJD, pull in your sentries, then stop and re-deploy sentries after the LMJD finishes. Voila, blap everything from a safe distance.
How does the Ishtar cope with being unable to do this? Especially since you're partly sig/speed tanking, it seems to me that getting webbed is a good way to get murdered--and since you're orbiting the beacon or one of your drones, you might not be able to immediately recall all of your deployed drones.
I haven't flown an Ishtar (just a Vexor Navy Issue), and I get that its bonuses are fantastic for sentry work...but I love the LMJD on my Rattler and can't imagine life without it on a sentry boat. What am I missing? |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2014.05.05 23:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ishtar is plenty fast enough to burn to appropriate range first, if required. After that, it's a target priority call. Easy Money, they're a premier [guristas especially] anom runner, missions are equally simple if not more so. |
Lothros Andastar
The Minutemen Li3 Federation
57
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Posted - 2014.05.06 02:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Xequecal wrote:Also, why would you use a BS for this at all? Use an Ishtar, it's better for this kind of strategy in literally every way. Not trolling, just curious: One of the big advantages of the BS hulls (as I see it) for sentry drone work is the LMJD. If you can't kill stuff before the get under your tracking, point in a random direction, activate the LMJD, pull in your sentries, then stop and re-deploy sentries after the LMJD finishes. Voila, blap everything from a safe distance. How does the Ishtar cope with being unable to do this? Especially since you're partly sig/speed tanking, it seems to me that getting webbed is a good way to get murdered--and since you're orbiting the beacon or one of your drones, you might not be able to immediately recall all of your deployed drones. I haven't flown an Ishtar (just a Vexor Navy Issue), and I get that its bonuses are fantastic for sentry work...but I love the LMJD on my Rattler and can't imagine life without it on a sentry boat. What am I missing? Against Guristas you can tank multiple thousand DPS incoming damage. You simply never need to move. |
stoicfaux
4748
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Posted - 2014.05.06 03:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Barton Breau wrote:1075-1240 dps, congratulations, its a navy domi with bigger tank , 94km targeting range and 84km control range Gecko will get 1100 DPS alone, apparently. Yup.
Ogre II base damage: 1.92 * 48 = 93.12 times 2 = 186.24 (gecko replaces two heavies.) Gecko base damage: 2.05 * 128 = 262.4
262.4 / 186.24 = 1.41, meaning Gekcos provide a ~41% DPS boost over Ogre IIs.
Five Ogre IIs on today's Rattlesnake puts out 845 DPS, so the Summer Rattlesnake will do 845 * 1.41 = ~1190 DPS. Now add in summer faction drone modules for another 5% maybe, and we're up to ~1,250 DPS.
And we're looking at around 4,300 m/s in terms of speed with three Drone Nav Computer IIs.
On the down side, and CCP will burn in the flaming pits of hell for this, is that the 8% drone specialization skill won't apply.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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