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Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
409
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Posted - 2014.05.05 21:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just to get something straight here...
I read that in order to keep my current "100% refine" amounts after the patch I'll need refining V + Refinery Eff V + Ore skill V + 4% implant + 50% base yield station with 6.7 standing.
now... I read the 100 page thread of the dev blog and some people there says that on POS people can refine without their skill taking into account so while someone with skills trained on npc station refine for 72% or something on POS in highsec someone WITHOUT ANY skills trained will refine at 75% after the expansion?
is that true? cause in order to perfect the relevant refining skills for me I'm looking at over 70 days training (mostly train 4 > 5) and this issue is very discouraging.... "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
34
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Posted - 2014.05.05 21:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would need to go back to look, but I think with the 4% implant you actually get a slight bit more than currently.
As to your question about POS versus station refining, mostly yes. Still have to pay for POS fuel of that is any consolation. From my understanding it is a limit of POS code and should be eliminated as they redo the POS code and mechanics.
How many of the ore specific skills are you looking at training to 5? |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
411
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Posted - 2014.05.05 21:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
I need to do refining eff from 4 to 5 (about 12 days no biggie...) then I need extra of 8 ore specific skills to cover all ore types I got access to. But I can get access to pos refining from friends and such so thing is training this skills to maintain my refining capabilities or use friend's pos and train exhumers+drone interfacing + cap recharge skills from 4 to 5. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3170
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Posted - 2014.05.05 23:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
No. the POS module will not allow for max level refining, without skills. (Well, it might for one patch. They're trying to get it in for Kronos, but if they miss, they'll get it on the next one)
The POS module will allow for slightly better than station refine levels. (there's also the intensive one, which is 0.3 and down, which is even better)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4511718#post4511718 Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
412
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Posted - 2014.05.05 23:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:No. the POS module will not allow for max level refining, without skills. (Well, it might for one patch. They're trying to get it in for Kronos, but if they miss, they'll get it on the next one)
That is good to know I was afraid of that.
At any rate what is your prediction about compressed ore via POS hauled into highsec trade hub for sale vs minerals?
"What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3171
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Posted - 2014.05.05 23:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:No. the POS module will not allow for max level refining, without skills. (Well, it might for one patch. They're trying to get it in for Kronos, but if they miss, they'll get it on the next one)
That is good to know I was afraid of that. At any rate what is your prediction about compressed ore via POS hauled into highsec trade hub for sale vs minerals?
Initially I suspect it's going to be low. People are set in their ways.
However, then trit prices start falling ('I need ore, trit is worthless to me, so I don't buy it, demand then falls, so does the price') people may take note and start selling their ore instead.
I can easily see Ore being worth more than the constituent minerals, at least for a while. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
412
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Posted - 2014.05.05 23:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
well faster then 100 days into maxing refining skills might be worth to try it. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3171
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Posted - 2014.05.05 23:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:well faster then 100 days into maxing refining skills might be worth to try it.
It'll be easier to ship around, at least Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
412
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Posted - 2014.05.05 23:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
ya... noticed that when I mined like 1million\m3 of ores in 2.5 days Lol "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Strot Harn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.05.06 03:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
is that true? cause in order to perfect the relevant refining skills for me I'm looking at over 70 days training (mostly train 4 > 5) and this issue is very discouraging....
Meh.
That's just over two months and do you really need Spodumain Processing V? Just focus on what you mine most and go from there. Really it's going to work out to 2-4 weeks of training tops.
Look on the bright side, it will finally separate the player that actually care about mining/refining/manufacturing from those who don't. Currently, you can get 100% efficiency with just level 2 skills in specific ore processing if you're doing it right. I'm glad to see that CCP looked at this and realized that there was not a series of interesting choices there.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3564
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Posted - 2014.05.06 04:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:No. the POS module will not allow for max level refining, without skills. (Well, it might for one patch. They're trying to get it in for Kronos, but if they miss, they'll get it on the next one) For what it is worth:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Small update!
After sacrificing many Devs to the dark development gods, we are now able to confirm we will have reprocessing skills affect Starbase Reprocessing Arrays - if not for the Summer release, shortly after.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3564
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Posted - 2014.05.06 05:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Reprocessing Yield = Station Equipment * (1 + Refining Skill * 3%) * (1 + Refining Efficiency Skill * 2%) * (1 + Ore Processing Skill * 2%)
Level 4 Material Skill At 50% Facilities = 68.31% [or -4.048%] Level 4 Material Skill At 50% Facilities and 4% Refining Implant = 68.31% * (1 + 4%) = 71.0424% [-1.3156%]
Max Skill At 50% Facilities = 69.575% [or -2.783%] Max Skill At 50% Facilities and 4% Refining Implant = 69.575% * (1 + 4%) = 72.358% [this is the old "perfect refine"]
Max Skill At 52% Reprocessing Array = 72.358% [this is the old "perfect refine"] Max Skill At 52% Reprocessing Array and 4% Refining Implant = 72.358% * (1 + 4%) = 75.25232% [+1.67232%] |
Bob ran
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
1
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
I can see compressed ore from high sec being bit limited since for the small miner it wouldn't be worthwhile to own a pos and nor would it be worthwhile for some to buy up ore and compress in pos due to time it would take to haul the ore to the pos.
So the ore market will prob be filled by few major producers |
Arronicus
Ravens' Nest Outlaw Horizon.
945
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:No. the POS module will not allow for max level refining, without skills. (Well, it might for one patch. They're trying to get it in for Kronos, but if they miss, they'll get it on the next one)
That is good to know I was afraid of that. At any rate what is your prediction about compressed ore via POS hauled into highsec trade hub for sale vs minerals?
compressed ore will be worth more than minerals very quickly I imagine, given that it will be the only way of compressing minerals to transport to low to build caps, and null to build supers, not to mention it will refine much better in 0.0 |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
613
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
So just to confirm, as one of my alts is currently busy training up all ore skills from 4 to 5 in order to be "the refiner", it's still useful for me to do this? He has the implant as well so all else being equal. |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2166
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Posted - 2014.05.06 13:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
it is, if you think it is.
Personally, I've had 5/5/5 skills since like '09, since outposts are generally absolute ****...
Will have to buy a new 4% implant though ... thanks for reminding me to do that before the prices get out of hand. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
7
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Posted - 2014.05.06 13:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
With all the talk and consternation about no longer getting a "perfect" refine in HiSec, didn't I also read in the Dev Blog that the amount of minerals received per refine was also increasing to help negate the negative effects of the less than perfect refine?
Assuming my memory isn't too foggy, without my perfect refine, I should still be receive about the same amount of minerals.
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Nalelmir Ahashion
Viziam Amarr Empire
412
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Posted - 2014.05.06 13:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
yes they will increase by roughly 38% so it should be same amount of minerals and allow players in lower security levels to get larger amounts. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2166
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Posted - 2014.05.06 13:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Otin Bison wrote:With all the talk and consternation about no longer getting a "perfect" refine in HiSec, didn't I also read in the Dev Blog that the amount of minerals received per refine was also increasing to help negate the negative effects of the less than perfect refine?
Assuming my memory isn't too foggy, without my perfect refine, I should still be receive about the same amount of minerals.
You will be "close" if and only if you have max skills (or L4 skills and an implant).
Put simply, post-patch "72.3%" is exactly the same as "100%" today. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Viziam Amarr Empire
412
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Posted - 2014.05.06 13:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:
You will be "close" if and only if you have max skills (or L4 skills and an implant).
Put simply, post-patch "72.3%" is exactly the same as "100%" today.
Big if here is if the 72.3% minerals we will get after the change will be worth same as 100% today isk wise... This entire indy change is massive but biggest problem it requires long time for skills training, at minimum to maintain same mineral amount I'll personally need at minimum 30+ days of unplanned training... :X If in the end it will not be worth it I'll shed a tear, anyone got a bucket? "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
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Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2166
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
it'll probably be worth a bit more -- I doubt there are many (read - any) hisec miners/refiners who have skills where they need to be in order to get "perfect" refining out of an NPC station post patch.
edit -- granted the POS refining array will help (52% base yield) ... but still ... One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Viziam Amarr Empire
413
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
well considering I'm one of the only miners in highsec (which I'm aware of( that have 1 character most of them got loads of alts so its **** easy for them to train... just met a guy who started playing lot after I did but he got max manufacturing\research\pi\orca pilot\mining cause he got frikcing 6 alts! wtf... I thought its mmo seems it's alt fest... need some extra service? make an alt! look for another player and do the "mmo" part? no! POWER OF TWO! sucks balls. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2166
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 14:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:well considering I'm one of the only miners in highsec (which I'm aware of( that have 1 character most of them got loads of alts so its **** easy for them to train... just met a guy who started playing lot after I did but he got max manufacturing\research\pi\orca pilot\mining cause he got frikcing 6 alts! wtf... I thought its mmo seems it's alt fest... need some extra service? make an alt! look for another player and do the "mmo" part? no! POWER OF TWO! sucks balls.
so dec him and make him impotent for a week.
I have alts myself ... but more the "oh, I don't want anything to do with Vel today" kind (and a few cyno alts ... they're always important). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
413
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Posted - 2014.05.06 14:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Why dec him? he gives me free orca boost and offered to setup a pos for us that I can use for free.
but bottom line is that he with RL $$$ bought extra accounts and achieved what will take me years to get into in less time then I'm subb'd.
really makes me sad. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
101
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Posted - 2014.05.06 15:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Oh wow. Thanks for that link, Steve. I had missed that, and it really changes things.
Here is my prediction for ores and minerals post-Kronos.
Compressed ores will be worth more than the minerals they are worth because they are easier to haul around. Capital producers will not want to buy tritanium in Jita, because it is too much of a hassle to haul to their factory.
There will be fewer POSes in High Sec. Researching POSes will no longer be worthwhile with slot removal from NPC stations. Manufacturing POSes are still too much of a hassle to use for the small benefits they give. Many people will take down their POSes. If they leave the tower at the moon, and you war dec them, they will probably remove it. So there will be free moons.
You don't need to grind standings to drop a POS anymore.
So high sec miners should: put a small tower, a compression array, and one hour's fuel into a freighter. Grab a refining array instead of the compression array if you really want minerals. Fill the rest with ore. Fly to an empty moon. Drop your tower and array. Compress or refine your ore. Unanchor everything and fly away. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1928
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Posted - 2014.05.06 16:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: but bottom line is that he with RL $$$ bought extra accounts and achieved what will take me years to get into in less time then I'm subb'd.
really makes me sad.
This is a "pay to play" game after all, and those with extra cash willing to spend it can get an advantage. It's just the way things work. Happily, so. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
413
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Posted - 2014.05.06 16:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
This is a "pay to play" game after all, and those with extra cash willing to spend it can get an advantage. It's just the way things work. Happily, so.
Ya I know.. and considering there is no wining here it's not even p2w... well I guess i need to spice up my sandbox experience. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
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