Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Burneddi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
101
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 14:45:00 -
[361] - Quote
Hijacking page 19
Burneddi wrote:But anyway, I doubt that their actual intentions are to nerf the blap Phoenix too significantly. From the way these changes to application interact with hitting subcaps I can only imagine they didn't really think them all the way through. A much better change to application would've been for instance to increase explosion velocity by 20% and leave explosion radius alone -- the net buff would've remained roughly the same, we could've avoided having to increase the signature radius of POSes, dreads and hopefully also carriers, and the effects on subcap application would've been essentially the same.
I hereby propose the 20% Buffed Explosion Velocity But Otherwise Vanilla -torpedo change. Its base stats would be 2000m Explosion Radius and 24m/s Explosion Velocity (and of course the buffs to travel speed, which don't affect application). With all 5, its stats would become 1500m Explosion Radius and 36m/s Explosion Velocity. Its application would be almost completely identical (we're talking about a 2.8% difference in favour of my suggestion, they would be identical for moving targets if the explosion velocity was 23Gàôm/s but I'm not sure how the system likes fractionals).
For instance, on an Abaddon with a signature of 470m and top speed of 111m/s:
FOZZIE TORP (2250 Explosion Radius, 52.5 Explosion Velocity): Damage multiplier:0.0987987988 Stationary damage:0.2088888889 Moving damage:0.0987987988 Minimum tanking speed10.96666667
BEVBOV (1500 Explosion Radius, 36 Explosion Velocity): Damage multiplier:0.1016216216 Stationary damage:0.3133333333 Moving damage:0.1016216216 Minimum tanking speed11.28
Or the webbed and painted and linked Proteus I already used in another example, signature 598m and top speed of 53m/s:
FOZZIE TORP: Damage multiplier:0.2632704403 Stationary damage:0.2657777778 Moving damage:0.2632704403 Minimum tanking speed13.95333333
BEVBOV: Damage multiplier:0.2707924528 Stationary damage:0.3986666667 Moving damage:0.2707924528 Minimum tanking speed14.352
Or, say, a linked untriaged Archon moving at its top speed (essentially a slowcat I guess), with a signature of 1956m and a top speed of 88m/s:
FOZZIE TORP: Damage multiplier:0.5186363636 Stationary damage:0.8693333333 Moving damage:0.5186363636 Minimum tanking speed45.64
BEVBOV: Damage multiplier:0.5334545455 Stationary damage:1.304 Moving damage:0.5334545455 Minimum tanking speed46.944
As you can see, my BEVBOV suggestion is almost identical as far as application on moving targets is concerned, but doesn't suffer from the completely ridicilous issue of being unable to apply to stationary Archons etc.
EDIT: Revised my suggestion, making it closer to Fozzie's original draft. |
Burneddi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
101
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 14:59:00 -
[362] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Was there any thought to increasing cargohold size, as the rate-of-fire bonus means the Phoenix requires more missiles now? How many hours of firepower can it currently hold? And how many hours will it hold after? And how does that compare to the other caps. Also going to restate what I said earlier. Explosion Velocity should be at least the same as the fastest ship in the intended target class (Caps) In this case Nid at 90 m/s Explosion Radius should be no larger than the smallest ship in the intended target class. There is no reason for a weapons system to not be capable of applying 100% of it's DPS to an unfitted ship in the right target class (Assuming matching skill levels, no implants & no boosts.) Implants, Boosts & Fittings will mitigate enough damage. This should be true for all classes of missiles. (Pretty sure it's already 99% true for Guns) Actually, an Archon with links can speed tank a fairly good bit of damage from a Naglfar with no tracking rigs/mods, just like it can tank some damage from a Phoenix with no Rigors. The Nag will be looking at applying about 60% of its paper DPS to this target (at 30km), increased to 70-90% with some tracking mods. On the other hand the Phoenix will apply about 50% of its damage with no Rigors, increased to something like 80% of its full damage with 2xT2 Rigors on the new Phoenix. Granted, T2 Rigors are significantly more expensive than Tracking Computers. Hell, even T1 Rigors are. For the record, with T1 Rigors that'd be about 71% damage.
So in that regard, the missiles perform quite similarly. Of course for guns this is assuming that the Archon is moving perfectly perpendicular to the Naglfar, if it's moving at an imperfect angle the guns will apply better. |
Max Rico
Sleeper Slumber Party Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 17:12:00 -
[363] - Quote
I support a smaller explosion radius alongside a tinier buff to explosion velocity. Decreasing the radius means I won't be able to hit stationary targets for damage. Also, can we please get some low slot modules that effect both radius and velocity? These changes wouldn't be so horrible to the phoenix if there was a module I could equip to address the explosion radius. Midslot too, just like guns. I'm hoping even though I feel like it's pointless that CCP might consider what we, the players, are asking for. I'm not looking for the phoenix to be god of dreads, just on line with its ability to hit ships including battleships should I choose to fit it out that way. |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
205
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 17:19:00 -
[364] - Quote
Max Rico wrote:Decreasing the radius means I won't be able to hit stationary targets for damage.
Wrong, smaller radius means more damage if the calculation is still less than 1.
People, you want the radius to be smaller and the explosion velocity to be faster, its exactly the same as how you want to fit your ship in perfect conditions, smaller sig and faster speeds. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1344
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 20:03:00 -
[365] - Quote
Burneddi wrote: Actually, an Archon with links....
And that was a reading comprehension fail. If you look I was specifically talking about full damage application without links or skills involved. Bare hull vs bare guns, no tracking mods, no rigs etc. In those cases the missiles still have some their damage mitigated because their base explosion velocity is significantly less than the top speed of a carrier (Or Dread that was moving before it sieged) While assuming piloting rather than sitting still like a doorknob and letting someone orbit you at their max velocity, guns will almost always be applying properly.
Obviously links will mitigate damage. |
Max Rico
Sleeper Slumber Party Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 20:22:00 -
[366] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:Max Rico wrote:Decreasing the radius means I won't be able to hit stationary targets for damage. Wrong, smaller radius means more damage if the calculation is still less than 1. People, you want the radius to be smaller and the explosion velocity to be faster, its exactly the same as how you want to fit your ship in perfect conditions, smaller sig and faster speeds. Sorry, I was being bad and mistyped, I meant the increase in explosion radius will hurt missile damage against stationary targets that aren't small planets and or stations. |
Tyrion Reeves
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 02:37:00 -
[367] - Quote
Short question. will this change affect the citadel torpedos from npcs. im thinking about the one in the DED complex, since normally its easier to tank it with fast ship ( with ab, not mwd) would be good to know if this cahnge affects it the same way |
Burneddi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
101
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:44:00 -
[368] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: And that was a reading comprehension fail. If you look I was specifically talking about full damage application without links or skills involved. Bare hull vs bare guns, no tracking mods, no rigs etc. In those cases the missiles still have some their damage mitigated because their base explosion velocity is significantly less than the top speed of a carrier (Or Dread that was moving before it sieged)
Even without links, hull vs. hull, an Archon can mitigate at least 22-ish% of a Naglfar's damage. For the new Phoenix, this number is about 22.5%. Actually, the new Phoenix will apply perfectly to this Archon with a couple of Rigors, while a Naglfar will never apply perfectly to it no matter how many Tracking Mods it stacks.
Anyway, this is without links. The main issue with the capital missiles is the signature link being really strong against them. This goes for missiles of all sizes, really, but since the sig radius of capital missiles is so absurdly large it becomes quite a bit more noticeable (especially on Fozzie Phoenix).
Nevyn Auscent wrote: While assuming piloting rather than sitting still like a doorknob and letting someone orbit you at their max velocity, guns will almost always be applying properly.
Obviously links will mitigate damage.
Manual piloting to make your guns apply better isn't really possible in a sieged dread, but yeah a completely perfect orbit at 100% velocity might be a little stretching it. However in practice you'll be looking at a relatively small deviation from the perfect conditions, which considering the god-awful tracking of capital guns will make very little (literally talking about less than 5%) difference. |
Alex Tutuola
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
21
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 17:38:00 -
[369] - Quote
Wouldn't it be a little more elegant to change the damage reduction factor than to have to change the sig radii of everything the phoenix is supposed to shoot at? If you have to change all of those numbers, it's clear that you're not really causing the change you're seeking.
Hell, it would probably be better to leave the explosion radius the same in addition to the other changes; it will still be entirely inefficient to fire capital weapons at subcaps. As the changes stand now, the phoenix will not become useful enough to change its status as least used dread. :/ |
O'nira
United System's Commonwealth
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 04:29:00 -
[370] - Quote
dweq |
|
Freddie Merrcury
Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy
53
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 05:00:00 -
[371] - Quote
O'nira wrote:Have you guys played with phoenix in eft? its a freaking monster after patch, no more buffs PLEASE, i dont want it nerfed afterwards for being too freaking ridiculous yeah sure big pretty EFT warrior numbers.
Mind you almost all of its meaningless since it can apply less damage than before and its tank is inconsequential since the only thing that has to fear it is other dreads or supers and you can just field subcaps against with no risk.
I been kicked out of better homes than this. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10010
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 05:25:00 -
[372] - Quote
Why are you so bent on making sure that the Phoenix can't do any damage to subcaps that you're sacrificing its ability to apply damage to capitals? You seriously, seriously need to re-examine the goals of this rebalance. Other dreadnoughts have somewhat of an ability to blap subcaps, so why can't the Phoenix do this too? I think you should keep the current changes except remove the nerf to explosion radius. The fact that you have to increase signature radius of everything you want the Phoenix to be shooting is a pretty telling indicator that you have absolutely no clue what you're doing. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Roguehellhound
Sea Hamster Legionnaires The Unthinkables
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 07:51:00 -
[373] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Why are you so bent on making sure that the Phoenix can't do any damage to subcaps that you're sacrificing its ability to apply damage to capitals? You seriously, seriously need to re-examine the goals of this rebalance. Other dreadnoughts have somewhat of an ability to blap subcaps, so why can't the Phoenix do this too? I think you should keep the current changes except remove the nerf to explosion radius. The fact that you have to increase signature radius of everything you want the Phoenix to be shooting is a pretty telling indicator that you have absolutely no clue what you're doing.
i think its due to the fact that missiles will "always" apply damage even if its only 1 damage or more. while guns will miss completely.. shows how bad the current missile formula will make it a nightmare to balance. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10015
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 08:22:00 -
[374] - Quote
Roguehellhound wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Why are you so bent on making sure that the Phoenix can't do any damage to subcaps that you're sacrificing its ability to apply damage to capitals? You seriously, seriously need to re-examine the goals of this rebalance. Other dreadnoughts have somewhat of an ability to blap subcaps, so why can't the Phoenix do this too? I think you should keep the current changes except remove the nerf to explosion radius. The fact that you have to increase signature radius of everything you want the Phoenix to be shooting is a pretty telling indicator that you have absolutely no clue what you're doing. i think its due to the fact that missiles will "always" apply damage even if its only 1 damage or more. while guns will miss completely.. shows how bad the current missile formula will make it a nightmare to balance. This has nothing to do with it and there's nothing wrong with the missile damage formula. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
208
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 13:29:00 -
[375] - Quote
So Fozzie, have you and your team reconsidered the Explosion radius nerf and sig increase of dreads and POSs?
If not, you will need to increase the sig of carriers, rorquals, freighters, and JFs. |
Meltmind2
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
44
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 14:56:00 -
[376] - Quote
Fozzie, since you're touching the Phoenix, would you mind taking a look at the Revelation aswell while you're at it? As it stands right now, the Rev is quite lacking compared to the other dreads (raw dps of the Moros; dps, selectable damage type and lack of capacitor use of the Naglfar). With the upcomming Phoenix changes, this would make the Revelation practically obsolete.
In order to save the Rev, I propose changing the Amarr Dread bonus from 5% capuse/5% RoF to 5% cap use/10% damage per level. This would increase the dps of a Rev by ~12.5%, putting it in line with the Nag while retaining the current characteristics of laser-based weapons (locked damage type, cap use, instantly swapping crystals and not having to reload). The capacitor use would go down by about 25% due to the RoF reduction. This would leave the Moros with the highest capacitor guzzeling guns, but that is compensated by their higher dps. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
914
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:24:00 -
[377] - Quote
Freddie Merrcury wrote:O'nira wrote:Have you guys played with phoenix in eft? its a freaking monster after patch, no more buffs PLEASE, i dont want it nerfed afterwards for being too freaking ridiculous yeah sure big pretty EFT warrior numbers. Mind you almost all of its meaningless since it can apply less damage than before and its tank is inconsequential since the only thing that has to fear it is other dreads or supers and you can just field subcaps against with no risk.
So bring some Chimeras and have them fit a pile of drone mods and tank, and reps, and then stick some sentries out into space and blap subcaps.
Stop looking at **** in a vacuum for christ sake.
The only downside of these changes is that CCP feels a fix to one single ship...well one single weapon system. Is changing the 4 hulls and a structure. We should be a tad more realistic with this adjustment. Has CCP looked at the fallout from this change? Nagalfars will now project more damage vs Dreads, so why bring a phoenix? Moros will still be king ****, the Rev will have better projection.
Instead of actually buffing the Phoenix to do its job, CCP has decided to buff it, then change ships which indirectly buff every other race as well, thus putting the Phoenix back to exactly where it is today. A ship that can fit a big tank, with lots of potential damage, and terrible application.
Increasing the sig radius of the 4 dreads is bad. Increasing the sig radius of structures is redundant.
This whole fix is silly, and anyone crying about subcaps is a mong. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
685
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:37:00 -
[378] - Quote
tl;dr of OP: Lets nerf expRad to compensate for buffing expVel. Now increase sigRad of everything to compensate for that.
Makes perfect sense.
Fozzie, you're just making more work for yourself. By increasing expRad, you've actually made subcap damage application worse, not the same. Since the lowest of the reductions is always the one chosen this mathematically limits the possible dps application. It was completely impossible to make the Phoenix a subcap blapping monster without already having target painters. Nothing would have changed. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
685
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:41:00 -
[379] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Freddie Merrcury wrote:O'nira wrote:Have you guys played with phoenix in eft? its a freaking monster after patch, no more buffs PLEASE, i dont want it nerfed afterwards for being too freaking ridiculous yeah sure big pretty EFT warrior numbers. Mind you almost all of its meaningless since it can apply less damage than before and its tank is inconsequential since the only thing that has to fear it is other dreads or supers and you can just field subcaps against with no risk. So bring some Chimeras and have them fit a pile of drone mods and tank, and reps, and then stick some sentries out into space and blap subcaps. Stop looking at **** in a vacuum for christ sake. The only downside of these changes is that CCP feels a fix to one single ship...well one single weapon system. Is changing the 4 hulls and a structure. We should be a tad more realistic with this adjustment. Has CCP looked at the fallout from this change? Nagalfars will now project more damage vs Dreads, so why bring a phoenix? Moros will still be king ****, the Rev will have better projection. Instead of actually buffing the Phoenix to do its job, CCP has decided to buff it, then change ships which indirectly buff every other race as well, thus putting the Phoenix back to exactly where it is today. A ship that can fit a big tank, with lots of potential damage, and terrible application. Increasing the sig radius of the 4 dreads is bad. Increasing the sig radius of structures is redundant. This whole fix is silly, and anyone crying about subcaps is a mong.
This is a very important point. By increasing sigRad of ships, CCP will now be applying a stealth buff to all other capital weapons systems, doing exactly as is quoted above; putting the Phoenix right back where it is.
Clearly and without doubt, we don't need that to happen.
One of the wonderful things about Sisi is we can test the crap out of things until we're happy with them. Plz to be putting un-nerfed new Phoenix and citadel missles on Sisi so we can see just how good/bad they are. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
513
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:50:00 -
[380] - Quote
Awesome change ,gj Fozzie
You made this token change which probably wont help Phonix as much as it needs, still making it not only the worst dread ,but it is still so behind the others that most alliances kick you out if you bring these into any op.
Why cant it have real advatage ? Like the best pos shooter ,when it sux at shooting subcaps and rly the worst shooting other caps.
Also its lock speed is the worst while it has the only delayed dmg , how does that make any sense? And now it runs out of missiles faster. rly good job there ,but now it can do all dmg type equally , hmm not rly important for a dread most enemies are omni tanked anyway. Fitting still not improved.
Btw whats the point in changeing all those stats just for a minimal increment in effectiveness?
|
|
Freddie Merrcury
Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy
54
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 16:02:00 -
[381] - Quote
In general, Fozzie missed the forest for the trees in this "buff"
Instead of looking directly at the problems with the weapons system, he simply made any change he could that would impact in no way how well the ship actually performed compared to other ships of its class.
Even if the only change made was the explosion velocity buff, it would still be only comparable to other dreads in damage to caps and structures, and a far cry from the "subcap blapping" boogeyman that lives under Fozzie's desk and tangles his computer cords while he sleeps at night.
The tank bonus is a meaningless charity granted only to be taken away when the Phoenix can actually apply damage at some future point when the cycle of buffs comes round again I been kicked out of better homes than this. |
Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
130
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 20:04:00 -
[382] - Quote
If you live in the "real world," instead of inside EFT, you would realize that in every cap fight since ever (and in basically every large sub cap fight) everyone just approaches an anchor. No archon can actually ever "speed tank," a citadel cruise or torp missile as they are never going full speed, you will at most go 3/4 of your speed (more like 1/2 speed tops since you are constantly bumping) if you are at all approaching a target. In most cases, when you cyno into a cap fight you just sit there and do not move, unless you are being told to align to a celestial or are getting in range to neut out another target. Both of these are to ensure that you are in rep rage of everyone else in your fleet.
With this change all the other dreads will still be better since the other 3 can apply damage better to sub caps, and 99% of all cap fights have sub caps either as tackle or support, so the Phoenix after this change will actually be worst in almost all cases. The other reason it is not seen as much is due to the current armor capital meta that has existed for several years. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
149
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 03:26:00 -
[383] - Quote
Freddie Merrcury wrote:
... a far cry from the "subcap blapping" boogeyman that lives under Fozzie's desk and tangles his computer cords while he sleeps at night.
I just wanted to take a moment to point out to our venerable community what an AWESOME statement this is.
Please run for CSM 10
And.... to keep the posting on topic: Clearly Phoenix lovers and concerned pod pilots everywhere do not want this 'change'. So like with the Freighter change, the Dev team working on this needs to go back to the drawing board. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
514
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 05:24:00 -
[384] - Quote
Hmm another ostrich balancing by Fozzie
Post the "prefered" changes ,then dug head deep into sand so no argument reach you about why these changes are bad. ---> no need to do any extra work job done
"Hey guys, we have a pass on the Phoenix and Citadel Missiles for your feedback. " Yeah pass by while ignoring any feedback |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cult of Mooby
190
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 06:17:00 -
[385] - Quote
I gotta say, between this thread and the (missile using) Mordu's thread, there has been a resounding lack of Dev replies. Given that Rise is out sick, that places more of a load on Fozzie, but at some point he must have taken notice of the feedback in these threads no matter how overworked he might be. So... anyone else feeling like a second class citizen? |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
150
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 16:56:00 -
[386] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:I gotta say, between this thread and the (missile using) Mordu's thread, there has been a resounding lack of Dev replies. Given that Rise is out sick, that places more of a load on Fozzie, but at some point he must have taken notice of the feedback in these threads no matter how overworked he might be. So... anyone else feeling like a second class citizen?
Yeah the silence is pretty deafening. |
Sebastian Sorana
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 18:56:00 -
[387] - Quote
Thanks for this ccp, been waiting for long years for this. |
teta231
Medieval Plants Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 20:12:00 -
[388] - Quote
Burneddi wrote:During a heated Jabber discussion with a passionate Phoenix fanatic who claimed that nerfing the explosion radius and buffing the Explosion Velocity will actually help with application on subcaps, I ran some numbers. The results were somewhat interesting. Our Phoenixes are fitted with Citadel Torpedoes, 2x T2 Rigors and a T1 Rigor (due to Calibration constraints). Targets have Evasive Maneuvers links, Afterburners, and are webbed and painted to hell and back. Only application is considered, the paper DPS buffs caused by the ROF buff aren't included here as they're largely irrelevant. First off, the relevant stats from both of the Phoenixes: CURRENT PHOENIX: 816 Explosion Radius, 30 Explosion Velocity NEW PHOENIX: 1224 Explosion Radius, 52.5 Explosion Velocity TARGET: Proteus, double 1600 Reinforced Steel Plates II, 10mn Afterburner II; affected by 4xStasis Webifier II from a Loki and 4xTarget Painter II from a Hyena. Signature: 598m, top speed: 53m/s. CURRENT PHOENIX APPLICATION: Damage multiplier:0.4148168701 Stationary damage:0.7328431373 Moving damage:0.4148168701 Minimum tanking speed21.98529412 NEW PHOENIX APPLICATION: Damage multiplier:0.4839530152 Stationary damage:0.4885620915 Moving damage:0.4839530152 Minimum tanking speed25.6495098 (key: damage multiplier is the final percentage of total paper deeps applied to target. Stationary damage is what you would do if the target was stationary, moving damage is what you would do if they were moving. Minimum tanking speed is the minimum speed in meters per second they have to be moving at to effectively be considered moving by the formula) In other words, against a small target like a cruiser that is moving well above the Explosion Velocity of the current Phoenix, the new Phoenix actually applies more damage. This isn't because of Explosion Velocity being better, it's simply caused by the 25% disparity between the nerf and the buff. As you can see in the numbers here, the new Phoenix would apply about 14.3% better to this Proteus. What happens when we shoot at a battleship, say an Abaddon? TARGET: Abaddon, 3x Reinforced Steel Plates II, 100MN Afterburner II; affected by 4xStasis Webifier II from a Loki and 4xTarget Painter II from a Hyena. Signature: 1122m, top speed: 35m/s. CURRENT PHOENIX APPLICATION: Damage multiplier:1 Stationary damage:1.375 Moving damage:1.178571429 Minimum tanking speed41.25 NEW PHOENIX APPLICATION: Damage multiplier:0.9166666667 Stationary damage:0.9166666667 Moving damage:1.375 Minimum tanking speed48.125 As you can see, here against a significantly larger and slower target the roles are somewhat ironically reversed. The current Phoenix applies full damage to this Abaddon, whereas the new Phoenix would only apply 91% of its paper DPS. The reason this happens is signature and it isn't really related to speed at all, webbed battleships are well slow enough for even the old Phoenix's measly 30m/s Explosion Velocity to be adequate, whereas the worse Explosion Radius of the new Phoenix gimps it against armor battleships (but would be enough for shield battleships). Of course the Phoenix pilot could pop Crash and still apply full damage to these battleships with the new Phoenix, but I don't really think that's relevant to these points. Also, here's the spreadsheet I made and used to get these numbers in case you want to test them out yourself. It's quite barebones, so to get the Explosion Radius etc. for the new Phoenix you'll have to do some calculus. HiddenPorpoise wrote:If my awkward numbers are right supers are taking less dps now, even without links; can someone confirm that? Probably not. Assuming eg. a Nyx as a target, its signature is several times the Explosion Radius of both the old and the new Phoenix, while its top speed is about 2.5 times the Explosion Velocity of the old Phoenix and 1.7-ish times of the new Phoenix. Both should easily apply full damage to it no matter what. With links and drugs that would change, and both Phoenixes would have to fit Rigors.
if u use TP then u have booster to TP and bs size is from 1,6 to 1,9 k instead from what u assumed 1,1. However crusier size hulls will be still horrible |
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
44
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 16:24:00 -
[389] - Quote
Will the phoenix be relevant this year? Dev silence is strong in this tread.. |
Gnoshia
Section 8. Fatal Ascension
58
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 16:40:00 -
[390] - Quote
Wulfy Johnson wrote:Will the phoenix be relevant this year? Dev silence is strong in this tread..
I agree. The silence from CCP on this is a bit frustrating. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |