Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] .. 21 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1161
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:42:00 -
[571] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Which has nothing to do with this. i think it's hilarious is what it's got to do with this it's players who trained mining barge v to unlock orcas complaining that someone else can unlock orcas without mining barge v. in both cases, it's players whining that another player will be able to do something the speaker can already do with a little less training, and demanding reimbursement Difference being CDO V only has 1 function which is being given to everyone, but people with mining barge at less than V didn't get max bonused barges. Similar, but a notable difference. There is NO function of CDO which people who trained SDO V won't have, there are plenty of functions of mining barge V that people with a lower level won't have despite getting orca access at III.
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
903
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:43:00 -
[572] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:ah, but cdo gives 5% drone damage per level. training sdo has never given 5% damage per level.
we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo5 and cdo0 is getting free 25% drone damage, do we? Not sure if sarcasm. hahaha i think i got it the wrong way around. what does sdo unlock again? /clears throat we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo5 and cdo0 is getting free t2 drones, do we?
Um they aren't getting free T2 Drones.
Lights = SDO 5 + Racial Spec I Meds = SDO 5 + Racial Spec 2.
People who have SDO 1 + CDO 5 however will be gifted access to Racial Spec which is also poor implementation in terms of "fairness and equality" |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9887
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:45:00 -
[573] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Which has nothing to do with this. i think it's hilarious is what it's got to do with this it's players who trained mining barge v to unlock orcas complaining that someone else can unlock orcas without mining barge v. Was Mining Barge removed from the game? No. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:47:00 -
[574] - Quote
i forgot to switch the skills :S
we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo0 and cdo5 is getting free t2 drones, do we?
i mean, ****. do we. 'cos that's just as funny |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:47:00 -
[575] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:People who have SDO 1 + CDO 5 however will be gifted access to Racial Spec which is also poor implementation in terms of "fairness and equality" fairer than removing their access to what they can fly or gifting sp for an ability that wasn't removed. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3236
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:48:00 -
[576] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Which has nothing to do with this. i think it's hilarious is what it's got to do with this it's players who trained mining barge v to unlock orcas complaining that someone else can unlock orcas without mining barge v. Was Mining Barge removed from the game? No. no, but people're still complaining about ~loss of advantage~ and demanding reimbursement. |
Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:49:00 -
[577] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Gavin Dax wrote:What's missing from your analysis is that the skill effect you train for is "an advantage over players who don't have the skill", and "an equal bonus with those that do". The first of these effects is being removed, so no, you are not getting the "full effect". no, the skill effect you train for is '5% drone damage'. you'll still have that. Quote: Question: is there a skill right now, which put in a skill queue, will be completely wasted? If I have SDO V now, and I put CDO in my skill queue, am I not wasting it? Ask yourself: *would you put it in your skill queue?* If there ANY good reason to put it in your skill queue now? No.
yes. 5% drone damage. Quote:You've got to be trolling. This is in no way remotely similar to the BC/Destroyer change, this is in no way similar to the changes to Command Ships or Capitals. CCP didn't give anyone free skills in these scenarios. all are part of their standing policy of 'what you can fly today you can fly tomorrow'. Quote:I'm advocating that those who trained CDO5 be reimbursed in some fashion because of the lack of need to train the CDO5 skill but still acquire the same advantage. ah, but cdo gives 5% drone damage per level. training sdo has never given 5% damage per level. we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo5 and cdo0 is getting free 25% drone damage, do we?
5% drone damage relative to what? It's not just 5% damage. It's 5% damage *relative to if you had not trained the skill*. The last sentence is obviously true, because if it wasn't, there would be no reason to train it! 5% damage relative to nothing has no meaning.
Now to say again, you are not getting the "full effect", which is "5% damage relative to if you had not trained the skill", or alternatively "a damage difference relative to everyone else". This is why it makes no sense to train the skill, because that "full effect" will be lost after the patch.
Did this clarify my point, or is there still a problem with it? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9887
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:50:00 -
[578] - Quote
No loss since they still had something the others didn't, namely Mining Barge V and everything that came with it. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
903
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:51:00 -
[579] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:People who have SDO 1 + CDO 5 however will be gifted access to Racial Spec which is also poor implementation in terms of "fairness and equality" fairer than removing their access to what they can fly or gifting sp for an ability that wasn't removed.
Then maybe CCP should just give everyone level 5 in all skills since training them is apparently irrelevant in determining if one should or should not gain access to a skill effect.
Come on guy, troll harder. |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
52
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:56:00 -
[580] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:It's not about maintaining abilities, it's about the free bump in SP that a character gets when they haven't put the time into the training. sp is a number that has no ingame effect. except making your clone more expensive.
And it is the mechanism that decides if you can use a module / rig/ hull and how powerful that item is. |
|
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
367
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:01:00 -
[581] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Which is why people who currently have the advantage should be given the SP from the now defunct CDO skill to apply elsewhere.
the change isn't to maintain advantage Well duh, thats why people are upset with the intended change. Are you a rocket scientist? then they're asking to be special-cased and they don't deserve attention. No they are asking that CCP allow them to keep the advantage they trained for, or reimburse them because that advantage is being given away for "free". The special cases are the guys who only have SDO trained to 5 but will log in after patch day with drones acting like they have both SDO and CDO to 5. Is it so wrong for people to want to maintain their combat advantage or be able to apply that advantage elsewhere when a group of people are being gifted the exact same skill set despite not having invested the training time to attain it?
Oh boo hoo. I lost a combat advantage when they nerfed heavy missiles 2 years ago. Did I get reimbursed SP? No. I did not. Get over yourself. SP is not an indication on how good you are at this game. I see low SP characters beat high SP characters all the time. Let a newbro buy an account with 100mil SP, and you will most likely see him lose a carrier because he didn't know the mechanics. I would rather test my skills against someone who has low SP and knows the mechanics and knows how to manually fly his ship; versus someone who knows shite about the mechanics and manually flying, but has a 100mil SP. |
Dave Stark
5647
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:03:00 -
[582] - Quote
how is this thread still going? |
Alli Ginthur
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:08:00 -
[583] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:
Oh boo hoo. I lost a combat advantage when they nerfed heavy missiles 2 years ago. Did I get reimbursed SP? No. I did not. Get over yourself. SP is not an indication on how good you are at this game. I see low SP characters beat high SP characters all the time. Let a newbro buy an account with 100mil SP, and you will most likely see him lose a carrier because he didn't know the mechanics. I would rather test my skills against someone who has low SP and knows the mechanics and knows how to manually fly his ship; versus someone who knows shite about the mechanics and manually flying, but has a 100mil SP.
Except in that case it was the weapon system that got its effectiveness reduced, not the skills that went into it. If you trained a higher level of heavy missile or heavy missile spec than someone, you retained that percentage advantage after the nerf. What combat advantage does a SDO 5/CDO 5 character retain over a SDO 5/CDO 0 character after the patch? None. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
903
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:09:00 -
[584] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:[ Oh boo hoo. I lost a combat advantage when they nerfed heavy missiles 2 years ago. Did I get reimbursed SP? No. I did not. Get over yourself. SP is not an indication on how good you are at this game. I see low SP characters beat high SP characters all the time. Let a newbro buy an account with 100mil SP, and you will most likely see him lose a carrier because he didn't know the mechanics. I would rather test my skills against someone who has low SP and knows the mechanics and knows how to manually fly his ship; versus someone who knows shite about the mechanics and manually flying, but has a 100mil SP.
Why would you get SP for a mechanics change? The HML change had nothing to do with skills and impacted people the same whether they had 5/5 or were 1/5.
Its not about the SP number, its about the benefits being given to people who have not trained the skill, and it is applicable not only to SDO 5/ CDO 0, but the inverse as well, or any combination there in. Giving people the same skills based on the level of one skill as people with 2 skills is poor implementation.
God damn. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3237
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:11:00 -
[585] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:No loss since they still had something the others didn't. true, though most of them denied ever having used barges or intent to use them. (horseshit)
Quote:5% drone damage relative to what? It's not just 5% damage. It's 5% damage *relative to if you had not trained the skill*. The last sentence is obviously true, because if it wasn't, there would be no reason to train it! 5% damage relative to nothing has no meaning.
Now to say again, you are not getting the "full effect", which is "5% damage relative to if you had not trained the skill", or alternatively "a damage difference relative to everyone else". This is why it makes no sense to train the skill, because that "full effect" will be lost after the patch. no sense to train the skill now, no. i've been enjoying cdo5 for a long time now, though~ oh! and your percieved advantage still has nothing to do with reimbursement. you still have 5% per level.
maybe if everything you used drones for directly compared your drone dps against everyone else's drone dps at the same time?
Quote:Then maybe CCP should just give everyone level 5 in all skills since training them is apparently irrelevant in determining if one should or should not gain access to a skill effect. that's pretty clearly not what i said mate. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3237
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:13:00 -
[586] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:It's not about maintaining abilities, it's about the free bump in SP that a character gets when they haven't put the time into the training. sp is a number that has no ingame effect. except making your clone more expensive. And it is the mechanism that decides if you can use a module / rig/ hull and how powerful that item is. no, that's skills, silly
Quote:how is this thread still going? the power of love. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
367
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:18:00 -
[587] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:[ Oh boo hoo. I lost a combat advantage when they nerfed heavy missiles 2 years ago. Did I get reimbursed SP? No. I did not. Get over yourself. SP is not an indication on how good you are at this game. I see low SP characters beat high SP characters all the time. Let a newbro buy an account with 100mil SP, and you will most likely see him lose a carrier because he didn't know the mechanics. I would rather test my skills against someone who has low SP and knows the mechanics and knows how to manually fly his ship; versus someone who knows shite about the mechanics and manually flying, but has a 100mil SP. Why would you get SP for a mechanics change? The HML change had nothing to do with skills and impacted people the same whether they had 5/5 or were 1/5. Its not about the SP number, its about the benefits being given to people who have not trained the skill, and it is applicable not only to SDO 5/ CDO 0, but the inverse as well, or any combination there in. Giving people the same skills based on the level of one skill as people with 2 skills is poor implementation. God damn.
And the changes to drones are the same thing. CCP is rebalancing drones to be more inline with the game. Something they should have done years ago. Adding those 2 new skills and removing CDO is part of that process. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
903
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:30:00 -
[588] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote: And the changes to drones are the same thing. CCP is rebalancing drones to be more inline with the game. Something they should have done years ago. Adding those 2 new skills and removing CDO is part of that process.
Ya because CCP totally removed Warhead Upgrades when they retooled the mechanics of missiles last year, Oh wait nope that skill is still there. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
367
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:50:00 -
[589] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Estella Osoka wrote: And the changes to drones are the same thing. CCP is rebalancing drones to be more inline with the game. Something they should have done years ago. Adding those 2 new skills and removing CDO is part of that process.
Ya because CCP totally removed Warhead Upgrades when they retooled the mechanics of missiles last year, Oh wait nope that skill is still there. Whine moar please. If you don't like the changes, you don't have to play. Bottomline is CCP isn't taking away skill/ skillpoints, so no free SP. Nope, they're just exchanging them, which has been refunded in the past (social skills)
Those "social skills" were removed from the game. There was 5 and they were reduced to 3.
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
905
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:55:00 -
[590] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Estella Osoka wrote: And the changes to drones are the same thing. CCP is rebalancing drones to be more inline with the game. Something they should have done years ago. Adding those 2 new skills and removing CDO is part of that process.
Ya because CCP totally removed Warhead Upgrades when they retooled the mechanics of missiles last year, Oh wait nope that skill is still there. Bottomline is CCP isn't taking away skill/ skillpoints, so no free SP.
Right they are giving away skills to people who don't have them trained, and making SP I have already trained moot.
Get it? Got it? Good. |
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1162
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:58:00 -
[591] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Estella Osoka wrote: And the changes to drones are the same thing. CCP is rebalancing drones to be more inline with the game. Something they should have done years ago. Adding those 2 new skills and removing CDO is part of that process.
Ya because CCP totally removed Warhead Upgrades when they retooled the mechanics of missiles last year, Oh wait nope that skill is still there. Whine moar please. If you don't like the changes, you don't have to play. Bottomline is CCP isn't taking away skill/ skillpoints, so no free SP. Nope, they're just exchanging them, which has been refunded in the past (social skills) Those "social skills" were removed from the game. There was 5 and they were reduced to 3. CDO is being removed as well.
It should also be noted thet the new skills had higher multipliers than the old ones in the social skill swap, thus making it so that there wasn't necessarily a surplus of SP created. |
Marsha Mallow
566
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:59:00 -
[592] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Get it? Got it? Good. Yup TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15545
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 22:04:00 -
[593] - Quote
In just one more day, people in this thread will have spent longer complaining about the skill than they took to train it. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
905
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 22:06:00 -
[594] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:In just one more day, people in this thread will have spent longer complaining about the skill than they took to train it.
False!
i have already argued longer than it took me to train it. I used SP from learning skills to bump both SDO and CDO to level 5.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1162
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 22:09:00 -
[595] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Malcanis wrote:In just one more day, people in this thread will have spent longer complaining about the skill than they took to train it. False! i have already argued longer than it took me to train it. I used SP from learning skills to bump both SDO and CDO to level 5. I trained it normally, but since training is passive I have more time to argue. |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 22:14:00 -
[596] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:how is this thread still going?
Because for some people there is concern over how this is being handled. One of the biggest reasons I'm weighing in with an opinion is because I don't want to see this become the norm for handling skills in this situation. The difference in time that I've put into my character vs. someone who's put in less time is what gives my character an edge and this fix changes that. |
Daenika
MMO-Mechanics.com
102
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 23:27:00 -
[597] - Quote
The beef the OP and others have is that, if you have Scout Drone Operation at V, it doesn't matter WHAT you have Combat Drone Operation at, you'll get the same skills at V after Kronos. Effectively, that means the SP you put into Combat Drone Operation are meaningless.
However, this only applies if you have SDO at at least equal level to CDO. If you have CDO at a higher level than SDO, you get benefit from that CDO after patch.
The reason they made it the highest of CDO and SDO is that the new skills are going to be providing the bonuses of CDO (just specific to lights or mediums instead of both), but the new skills are also what's going to govern access to T2 lights and mediums, which is currently governed by SDO. Thus, as standard for CCP, if you can fly it before, you can fly it after (except apparently T2 Sentries without racial specialization trained, because {reasons}), and thus if you can use T2 lights/mediums (ie have SDO V), you should also have the new LDO and MDO at V to continue allowing the use of the T2s.
The problem is, CDO isn't strictly being split. CDO is being split, and module/drone pre-requisites are then being transferred from, SDO to the new LDO and MDO.
The only pain point for this is if you have SDO trained at least as high as CDO, since it basically means that the up to 512,000 SP (~8-12 days) you put into CDO were functionally wasted.
This is particularly pertinent because the Devs only updated with the Scout Drone Operation addendum 2 days after the initial post, so anyone that started training CDO V when they first posted the change (to take advantage of the split) functionally wasted 2 days, minimum, after they updated and it became apparent that you could gain the same benefit, *plus* Drone Avionics V, by training SDO up instead of CDO up (at half the training time to boot).
I'm not sure where I stand on the topic, but I don't think it's really that much to ask that if SDO is trained up to an equal level or higher than CDO when the patch hits (ie. you're gaining no benefit from having CDO at that level from there forward), to refund the SPs in CDO. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
763
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 00:18:00 -
[598] - Quote
Priestess Lin wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Walter Hart White wrote:Best solution is refunding CDO for everyone. Side A will stop bickering, Side B will have nothing to bicker about or to bicker with and everyone wins. Characters who have CDO V lose nothing in terms of progression and can spend the 11 days they had to spend on CDO (many of them after reading blog) back. Literary everyone wins in this situation. You can't argue that! Except for the fact that is what side A is asking for effectively by demanding they get free SP equivalent to CDO V...... Just prettied up in a dress and make up. So.... No. Pretty much. To be honest every single one of my alts has CDO trained so I would gain a lot if they gave away free SP for it. HOWEVER I really do not like girly whining and tantrums so I am opposed to people getting it pretty much on principle. the girly whining and tantrums is you projecting yourself into others. People have valid complaints. I myself recently just spent the time and money to get CDO to V and now they are giving it to everyone for free. I would not be wrong to feel cheated in some way. its very simple concept but a few incredibly stupid people fail to realize others valid complains and choose to keep slamming others back with their ignorant and imposing viewpoint that is detached from fairness.
There are numerous changes that mean people have "wasted" SP .For example one of my industry alts just finished training ME5 and researching a batch of BPOs only to find the whole exercise was a waste of several months but I am not demanding SP reimbursement. My mission alt only JUST trained interfacing to 5 and got T2 sentries but post patch you are better off with staying at IV for both those and training something else. I am not claiming claiming reimbursemnt for that either.
1. there are numerous changes in summer patch where people are disadvantaged but no-one else is claiming SP
2. The ONLY people disadvantged by the CDO issue are the few people who DELIBERATELY trained it at the last minute to try and rort the patch system
3. Devs catering to player whining creates an entitled atmosphere and leads to further complaining which puts off prospective players and is detrimental to the game as a whole. In many ways CCP would be better with a strict "no SP eve" policy.
|
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
479
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 00:21:00 -
[599] - Quote
Reading this thread is like watching CSPAN.
|
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 01:16:00 -
[600] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Priestess Lin wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Walter Hart White wrote:Best solution is refunding CDO for everyone. Side A will stop bickering, Side B will have nothing to bicker about or to bicker with and everyone wins. Characters who have CDO V lose nothing in terms of progression and can spend the 11 days they had to spend on CDO (many of them after reading blog) back. Literary everyone wins in this situation. You can't argue that! Except for the fact that is what side A is asking for effectively by demanding they get free SP equivalent to CDO V...... Just prettied up in a dress and make up. So.... No. Pretty much. To be honest every single one of my alts has CDO trained so I would gain a lot if they gave away free SP for it. HOWEVER I really do not like girly whining and tantrums so I am opposed to people getting it pretty much on principle. the girly whining and tantrums is you projecting yourself into others. People have valid complaints. I myself recently just spent the time and money to get CDO to V and now they are giving it to everyone for free. I would not be wrong to feel cheated in some way. its very simple concept but a few incredibly stupid people fail to realize others valid complains and choose to keep slamming others back with their ignorant and imposing viewpoint that is detached from fairness. There are numerous changes that mean people have "wasted" SP .For example one of my industry alts just finished training ME5 and researching a batch of BPOs only to find the whole exercise was a waste of several months but I am not demanding SP reimbursement. My mission alt only JUST trained interfacing to 5 and got T2 sentries but post patch you are better off with staying at IV for both those and training something else. I am not claiming claiming reimbursemnt for that either. 1. there are numerous changes in summer patch where people are disadvantaged but no-one else is claiming SP 2. The ONLY people disadvantged by the CDO issue are the few people who DELIBERATELY trained it at the last minute to try and rort the patch system 3. Devs catering to player whining creates an entitled atmosphere and leads to further complaining which puts off prospective players and is detrimental to the game as a whole. In many ways CCP would be better with a strict "no SP eve" policy.
It doesn't matter if people tried to cash in on the patch system. CCP put it in the blog for a reason. When the battlecruiser went racial, CCP notified us about it and even informed us that if we trained to level 5 we would have all 4 racial skills to level 5. What's happening here is that someone who didn't train CDO5 gets the same benefit. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] .. 21 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |