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Sidrew
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Posted - 2006.05.26 13:31:00 -
[1]
Howdy...
With the scuttlebutt about subsystem targeting in some fabled golden future release of Kali, I have some ideas on how best this might work. It involves coming up with a couple of skills, and if someone has had this idea before (which wouldn't terribly surprise me), then sue me, because I'm *WAY* too lazy to troll the boards looking for it. I think these skills would greatly enhance the use of Covert Ops and Fleet/Logistics ships and make them play an even more critical role in fleet operations. And I will grant you, I'm not well versed on the CURRENT use of Covert Ops, so some of what I "say" might be way off.
(1) Subsystem Scanning - The purpose of this skill would be to allow you to scope a ship out and determine what she has fitted. Everyone loves Intel, right?!?
Firstly, it would almost certainly require that you are able to passively target. I mean... this is covert ops, right? (You can actively target someone if you want... I'll send flowers to your funeral). At first level you would have to be REALLY close to the target (so close that you might have the chance of getting TOO close and losing your cloak (again... flowers are on the way), and you would only be able to determine a module or two. As skill rank progresses, you can be farther and farther away from the target and learn more about what modules are installed.
This would also be usable by fleet/logistics support ships in non-covert ops roles. This will most certainly attract attention and put a big target on your hull! (mmm... flowers). Ranges at which scanning could occur for fleet/logistics ships would be greater probably.
Skills Required: Electronics 5, Targeting 5, Electronic Warfare 5, Signature Analysis 5, Survey 5 (and perhaps Cloaking... Long Range Targeting...)
Equipment Required: Most certainly a mid-slot ship-scanner. We have cargo scanners now, not a huge leap to subsystem scanners. They would probably take a good chunk of CPU.
(2) Subsystem Hacking (Yarr! ) - The purpose of THIS Super-Fun (tm) skill... would be to allow you to temporarily DISABLE a target's module(s)... (woohoo!)
As skill rank progresses in this skill, you are able to disable systems for longer durations... and perhaps even be able to fit multiple jamming modules to target more than one subsystem module at a time. This would start a countdown timer on the target ship displayed on the affected module's button as it's grayed out (or something). (This would make the target pilot soil her pod likely).
Skills Required: Electronics 5, Targeting 5, Electronic Warfare 5, Signature Analysis 5, (and others, I'm sure)..
Equipment Required: Definitely some high-slot modules much like how the Nossie is fitted. This is a very powerfully intrusive device.
(3) Subsystem Defense - This skill would allow you somewhat of a defense against hacking/scanning, making it harder for both things.
As skill rank progresses in this skill, the time your subsystem(s) are out of commission is reduced as well as perhaps forcing scanners to need be closer to you to scan subsystems.
Skills Required: Electronics 5, Electronic Warfare 5 (hmm... some others likely).
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I would also like to see that for gangs/fleets using proper assist/sensor linking modules... that all ships linked to the scanning ship would be able to see the subsystems of the target on their displays as well.
The purpose of using covert ops would be to prepare your gang/fleet for your foes as best you can and would make a good covert ops pilot essential to any gang/fleet. For logistics/fleet support ships... well, disabling a tank's hardeners or LAR2's, well, that sounds like a lot of fun to me!
Eh... just some thoughts. Tear them to shreds as you see fit.
Cheers,
Sidrew
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Tobizuru
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Posted - 2006.05.26 14:06:00 -
[2]
Personally I like the idea, I've been trying to find multiple reasons to pursue the Covert Ops field since I'm getting Frigate 5 anyway for my Assault Frigate...Only reason I had found up until now was being a specialist at Surprise Birthday Parties and good Battlefield Photojournalist. --------------------
I <3 my Exclamation |
Sidrew
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Posted - 2006.05.26 14:56:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Tobizuru Personally I like the idea, I've been trying to find multiple reasons to pursue the Covert Ops field since I'm getting Frigate 5 anyway for my Assault Frigate...Only reason I had found up until now was being a specialist at Surprise Birthday Parties and good Battlefield Photojournalist.
Aye... stealth 0.0 scouting and moon surveying notwithstanding... I too want to see more out of this class...
Cheers,
Sidrew
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Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.05.26 15:10:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jaketh Ivanes on 26/05/2006 15:11:06 Subsystem scanner.. allready got that, its called a ship scanner, not to mistake with the cargo scanner. Atleast I think its there, not good makeing unsure statements, but at work and can't log into the game.
Hacking.. could be fun, but should have a severe drawback, like you have to be within 10km of the ship, you can't be cloaked and you can't activate any other offensive modules while hacking.
In general, subsystem targetting will be a tricky thing to balance. Will it require the shields to be gone? Sounds "realistic" to me, but will give Caldari a serious advantage.
Will it require Armor to be gone? Also sounds plausible, but with armor gone, there is little point in blowing up the subsystems.
Would it be only external systems that can be affected? By external, i mean all high slot equiptment, as they are actually on the surface of the ship. Well, so are the engines and so should scanning systems also be. What would happen if you hit the camera drone? Would you get a black screen with only your shield/armor/structure reticle and slot layout? Could be fun and frustrating .
I'm all for subsystem targetting and also up for some raiding parties. If you could land a squad of maines, they could disable a lot of systems from the inside, perhaps even conquer the ship .
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2006.05.26 15:12:00 -
[5]
Slight derail:
- Only have subsystems on capital class vessels - Limit damage to small/medium weapons (you wouldn't use a sledgehammer to knock a picture hook in)
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Oron
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Posted - 2006.05.26 15:19:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Oron on 26/05/2006 15:20:37 We already have ship scanner in game - do we?
Anyway i realy like the idea that a CO with passiv targeter can use stuff like scanner without decloak.
After scanning a ship the CO pilot can select a modul and "target paint" that modul. All some of the damage done to the ship (by gang mates) will lower the HP of the prepainted modul, till it breaks.
pitty it would be lill ubar - hm?
The main problem with Modul targeting is - then should eve allow dmg to modules? Do not make sense (nor is balanced) if moduls can targeted with activ shild/armor).
i like the idea to limit modul targeting to frigs and perhabs cruiser - would expand their role.
Need drugs? |
Tobizuru
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Posted - 2006.05.26 15:21:00 -
[7]
What about including a hacking ability that could cripple a ships CPU or Powergrid, thus making a random modul or turret go offline (Due to the fact there is not enough CPU/PG to support it). --------------------
I <3 my Exclamation |
Sidrew
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Posted - 2006.05.26 15:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Edited by: Jaketh Ivanes on 26/05/2006 15:11:06 In general, subsystem targetting will be a tricky thing to balance. Will it require the shields to be gone? Sounds "realistic" to me, but will give Caldari a serious advantage.
Will it require Armor to be gone? Also sounds plausible, but with armor gone, there is little point in blowing up the subsystems.
Would it be only external systems that can be affected? By external, i mean all high slot equiptment, as they are actually on the surface of the ship. Well, so are the engines and so should scanning systems also be. What would happen if you hit the camera drone? Would you get a black screen with only your shield/armor/structure reticle and slot layout? Could be fun and frustrating .
I don't think it should require shields or armor to be gone... we already have modules that affect our ships without those requirements (Read: Vampires, Neutralizers, Weapon Distruptors...)
I'm unsure about the ship scanner thing... the main thing is... whether it exists or not, it should be something that a covert ops ship can do while cloaked...
Cheers,
Sidrew
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Sidrew
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Posted - 2006.05.26 15:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Oron Edited by: Oron on 26/05/2006 15:20:37 We already have ship scanner in game - do we?
Anyway i realy like the idea that a CO with passiv targeter can use stuff like scanner without decloak.
After scanning a ship the CO pilot can select a modul and "target paint" that modul. All some of the damage done to the ship (by gang mates) will lower the HP of the prepainted modul, till it breaks.
pitty it would be lill ubar - hm?
The main problem with Modul targeting is - then should eve allow dmg to modules? Do not make sense (nor is balanced) if moduls can targeted with activ shild/armor).
i like the idea to limit modul targeting to frigs and perhabs cruiser - would expand their role.
I don't think it would be feasible to actually do DAMAGE to the module... That would require breaching the shields and armor to GET to the module (save the weapons and external modules, I suppose). However... being able to target and disable would be possible via hacking... since we have gang assist modules... there must be some external interface to a ship's computer/powergrid already (in theory).
Cheers,
Sidrew
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Sidrew
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Posted - 2006.05.26 15:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tobizuru What about including a hacking ability that could cripple a ships CPU or Powergrid, thus making a random modul or turret go offline (Due to the fact there is not enough CPU/PG to support it).
Oooh... I like this idea too... good thought.
Cheers,
Sidrew
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Dorah Hawkwing
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Posted - 2006.05.26 15:42:00 -
[11]
Why oh why do I suspect subsystems will be taken out in the following order: Warpdrive Tank (Booster/reopper) Cap recharge?
????? IMHO, bad idea.. gankers will allways go for maximum disable flight effect
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Oron
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Posted - 2006.05.26 16:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dorah Hawkwing Why oh why do I suspect subsystems will be taken out in the following order: Warpdrive Tank (Booster/reopper) Cap recharge?
Right that is the problem :) As i said - would be cool but imho overpowered...
Need drugs? |
Tobizuru
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Posted - 2006.05.26 16:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Oron
Originally by: Dorah Hawkwing Why oh why do I suspect subsystems will be taken out in the following order: Warpdrive Tank (Booster/reopper) Cap recharge?
Right that is the problem :) As i said - would be cool but imho overpowered...
Thus why a Hacking Ability to Cripple the CPU/PG would be better IMO. It gives the awesome ability to disable one module of your opponents but its randomized and decided by your opponents Ship (Not Pilot) on what modul to take offline to work with its newly weakened CPU or PG. Obviously in a Fleet battle though a Covert Ops would become a prime target since this sort of tactic could prove quite annoying to say the least. --------------------
I <3 my Exclamation |
Sidrew
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Posted - 2006.05.26 16:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tobizuru
Originally by: Oron
Originally by: Dorah Hawkwing Why oh why do I suspect subsystems will be taken out in the following order: Warpdrive Tank (Booster/reopper) Cap recharge?
Right that is the problem :) As i said - would be cool but imho overpowered...
Thus why a Hacking Ability to Cripple the CPU/PG would be better IMO. It gives the awesome ability to disable one module of your opponents but its randomized and decided by your opponents Ship (Not Pilot) on what modul to take offline to work with its newly weakened CPU or PG. Obviously in a Fleet battle though a Covert Ops would become a prime target since this sort of tactic could prove quite annoying to say the least.
Indeed... which might make it a better ability for Fleet/Logistics support ships...
Cheers,
Sidrew
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Xelios
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Posted - 2006.05.26 16:39:00 -
[15]
TBH I don't think it's worth it. This is invariably going to add some network overhead to combat, which just adds more lag. And honestly, I'd be pretty ****ed off if I spent an hour fitting a ship just right only to have some shmuck take out my cap recharge in the first volley or two and be totally screwed the rest of the fight through no fault of my own.
EW is already incredibly powerful, I think we could all do without yet another layer of EW type effects even with high skill requirements.
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Tobizuru
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Posted - 2006.05.26 17:04:00 -
[16]
Being Able to destroy modules would definately make fights frustrating...Imagine being in a Titan and attacking a Fleet of BS's and BC's and be all like HAHA Doomsday on your ass! And they're like Oh no you dont PEW PEW Dead Doomsday Device. That would suck despite how interesting and humorous that sounded --------------------
I <3 my Exclamation |
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