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CRAZYCAJUN
Wagon Masters
1
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Posted - 2014.05.10 21:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've literally spent years getting my standing where it is now, and have been using them to make a pretty good living in eve over the past few months.
After the summer patch my business will literally be wiped out due to standings not being required for pos anchoring.
My question is how are you guys planning on compensating people for all the work they did to gain serious faction standing being completely wasted?
I'm losing a 1bil per month income after the patch.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. This game used to be about working hard for what you have and its becoming a carebear community. |
Kate Blaze
True Power Capsuleers
20
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Posted - 2014.05.10 21:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Keep crying. You had your meadow till now. That is your compensation. |
CRAZYCAJUN
Wagon Masters
1
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Posted - 2014.05.10 21:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
how about we keep this to characters that are a year old or older? k thx |
Kate Blaze
True Power Capsuleers
20
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Posted - 2014.05.10 21:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
CRAZYCAJUN wrote:how about we keep this to characters that are a year old or older? k thx How about we keep this to characters that will not cry so much. |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
530
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
He does have a point.
CCP could give a 1% job cost discount per 0.5 faction standing above 5.0, to reward high-standing players. It seem as if faction standing won't matter at all any more, to industry, and that is detrimental to those players who worked hard for theirs. |
CRAZYCAJUN
Wagon Masters
1
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Posted - 2014.05.10 21:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Salpad wrote:He does have a point.
CCP could give a 1% job cost discount per 0.5 faction standing above 5.0, to reward high-standing players. It seem as if faction standing won't matter at all any more, to industry, and that is detrimental to those players who worked hard for theirs.
definitely like where this is going, assuming corporation standing would be applied if personal standing isn't up to par I'd be happy with something like that |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3333
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 22:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
They should aim for a "Loyalty Expansion" where all LP stores get overhauled and effects for npc corporation and faction standings (both positive and negative) are included. Enemy of the state? Can't dock here. Repairs? Only for people we like. Etc. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5961
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 22:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
CRAZYCAJUN wrote:how about we keep this to characters that are a year old or older? k thx
Ok.
Cry more. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
225
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 22:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Faction standings reduce the tax npcs charge you when you sell the items you build. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2637
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 23:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
So...adapt? Find a new way to make your ISK? |
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Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1252
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Posted - 2014.05.10 23:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
CRAZYCAJUN wrote:Salpad wrote:He does have a point.
CCP could give a 1% job cost discount per 0.5 faction standing above 5.0, to reward high-standing players. It seem as if faction standing won't matter at all any more, to industry, and that is detrimental to those players who worked hard for theirs. definitely like where this is going, assuming corporation standing would be applied if personal standing isn't up to par I'd be happy with something like that >Complains about the game catering to people who dont want to work now >Has made a living selling his standings to corps so they can place their POSs without putting in work
Your entire arguement is invalid. |
CRAZYCAJUN
Wagon Masters
1
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Posted - 2014.05.10 23:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
How about ccp requires either 5.0+ standing depending on the security status of the system or a flat fee to place a pos - that way everyone has to either come up with some money or put in the work.
At the moment they're just going to call "free game" on pos's and any brand new capsuleer can just jump right in |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2637
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 00:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
CRAZYCAJUN wrote:
At the moment they're just going to call "free game" on pos's and any brand new capsuleer can just jump right in
Can you honestly explain why that's a bad thing? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5965
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Posted - 2014.05.11 00:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
CRAZYCAJUN wrote: At the moment they're just going to call "free game" on pos's and any brand new capsuleer can just jump right in
That's the point of it, yeah. That way that particular content, which is soon to have greater importance, isn't gated behind one of the worst mechanics in the entire game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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GreenSeed
1003
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 02:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
a flat fee to set up a POS would be nice, a billion sounds reasonable and creates a degree of commitment to the endeavor, instead of a corp dropping a pos with a few utility structures and then packing the whole thing up before a wardec goes into effect.
having said fee reduced via standings, still leaves the commitment part in, while also allowing a reward for people who grinded the standings before and after the changes are into effect.
along with this, charter costs should be increased WAY more than what they are now and consumption be modified by corp standing.
and while they are at it, they should make it so corps must "nominate" 5 members as representatives of the corp, making it so only their standings count towards corp standing, as to allow corps to freely invite new people in without having to worry about their corp standing taking a hit.
and to people saying "adapt" please stop spewing bile on this forum, the whole "no standing for poses" seems a bit too rushed and not fully thought trough, specially due to poses with no restriction favoring ghost corps who will pick up pos, disband and anchor again immediately, avoiding war and any cost associated with it.
im not saying the standing cost is a good idea, im glad we are moving away from it, but there must be a commitment to the structure or it will be probably one of the worst changes implemented in years. |
Celly S
Concord Attraction Services The Ditanian Alliance
264
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 02:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote: instead of a corp dropping a pos with a few utility structures and then packing the whole thing up before a wardec goes into effect.
it's already done now by corps whose members have the foresight to get the required standings for the space they want to put their POS in to begin with.
GreenSeed wrote:having said fee reduced via standings, still leaves the commitment part in, while also allowing a reward for people who grinded the standings before and after the changes are into effect.
along with this, charter costs should be increased WAY more than what they are now and consumption be modified by corp standing.
and while they are at it, they should make it so corps must "nominate" 5 members as representatives of the corp, making it so only their standings count towards corp standing, as to allow corps to freely invite new people in without having to worry about their corp standing taking a hit.
What you're asking for are sweeping changes to suit the playstyle of just a few players who wish to try to find a way to force people to leave valuable assets in harm's way during a wardec situation, and honestly that's not likely to happen, nor would it do anything other than cause people to use POSes less if there's nothing to gain by doing so or if the costs of doing so verses the risk are too high.
GreenSeed wrote:and to people saying "adapt" please stop spewing bile on this forum, the whole "no standing for poses" seems a bit too rushed and not fully thought trough, specially due to poses with no restriction favoring ghost corps who will pick up pos, disband and anchor again immediately, avoiding war and any cost associated with it.
wait, you think this doesn't happen already?, I have seen people disband their corps only to recreate them 5 minutes later to avoid a war dec, or retribution in the form of a dec for actions they committed, if you think this doesn't already happen, then sadly you're fooling yourself and all of your proposed changes would only serve to stifle growth independence and keep players in npc corps where they will be un-deccable and will use station based services in order to protect their assets, or their profit margins... as far as adaptation is concerned, players have and always will adapt.. a perfect example is the PvPer who was whining on these forums because a mission runner dropped a depot and refit warp stabs and got away from him...
GreenSeed wrote:im not saying the standing cost is a good idea, im glad we are moving away from it, but there must be a commitment to the structure or it will be probably one of the worst changes implemented in years.
aside from grinding standing BEING A COMMITMENT in and of itself, these changes are designed to be a conflict driver, battles over choice moons, battles over choice systems, if you want a certain moon, dec the corp, if they run, you win, if they fight and lose, you win, if they fight and win, you get pew pew... win, win for CCP and the PvP crowd.
at least this is how it looks to me. valid arguments against this point of view will be honestly considered, ranting, raving and generally showing your butt because you can't have your way will be laughed at and then ignored.
o/ Celly Smunt. Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator. |
Celly S
Concord Attraction Services The Ditanian Alliance
264
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 03:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
CRAZYCAJUN wrote:I've literally spent years getting my standing where it is now, and have been using them to make a pretty good living in eve over the past few months.
And the fact remains that because of that, you have had an advantage over other players who did not follow the same path you did, so your compensation has already been given to you in the form of what you were working for at the time... going forward, just remember that things change and you will have other opportunities and other paths to explore. o/ Celly Smunt.
Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3583
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 04:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Seriously, nobody has linked CCP Guard's HTFU videos yet? I'm appalled.
As an industrialist, I have no idea what is going to happen come June 3rd. I'm pretty sure it will be chaos for several months. I don't expect to earning anything, and I might even be taking-down my POSes. There might not even be a point for me to remain in industry.
Despite all that, I've had a good run, and I can't wait to see what happens. I'm looking forward to the chaos. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3211
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 04:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
CRAZYCAJUN wrote:My question is how are you guys planning on compensating people for all the work they did to gain serious faction standing being completely wasted? You were already compensated with ISK and LP. Stop being greedy. Oh god. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
466
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Posted - 2014.05.11 04:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote: I'm looking forward to the chaos.
Without chaos there is no evolution...I have my reservations about the upcoming changes but look forward to them simply to give me much more stuff to learn.
Celly S wrote: a perfect example is the PvPer who was whining on these forums because a mission runner dropped a depot and refit warp stabs and got away from him...
That makes me smile...a PvPer complaining about being outmaneuvered... |
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Celly S
Concord Attraction Services The Ditanian Alliance
265
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 04:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote: I'm looking forward to the chaos. Without chaos there is no evolution...I have my reservations about the upcoming changes but look forward to them simply to give me much more stuff to learn. Celly S wrote: a perfect example is the PvPer who was whining on these forums because a mission runner dropped a depot and refit warp stabs and got away from him... That makes me smile...a PvPer complaining about being outmaneuvered...
Me too, and the opportunity to learn more is always welcomed :P
Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator. |
Rhadnan Yvormes
The Blackfeather Syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 06:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kate Blaze wrote:Keep crying. You had your meadow till now. That is your compensation.
+1 for asshattery.
A market position obtained through the investment of a great deal of time and effort is not a meadow. It's an earned privilege.
Yeah, he has already managed to make some isk by leveraging the facilities afforded him by his hard work, but that doesn't make it acceptable to obliterate the value of that work. And what about those of us who have invested the time and effort to obtain this privilege but have just recently reached that point, and have yet to benefit from the work we put in? What about the corps that have invested the effort to be able to deploy a POS in hisec because they don't have the resources or combat capability to defend one in LS/NS?
Now they're going to have a flood of competition and aggro from much more powerful corps who previously wouldn't have bothered to mess with them, because they weren't willing to invest the effort required to earn the privilege of putting up a POS in hisec. Not only does a market advantage that took a great deal of effort to earn just disappear, but suddenly the risk to the investment in the POS and the assets of everyone involved in running it increases exponentially.
It's one thing for a ship one spent a lot of time training for to be made more or less powerful. It's another thing entirely for everything one spent years building to be put at tremendous risk, especially when the decisions regarding the risk:reward of those efforts were made on the basis of such a long-standing game mechanic. Changing how hard it is to earn this privilege would be one thing. Removing the requirement TO earn it is another thing entirely.
I have to concur that this is a monumentally ill-conceived plan. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Disband.
1194
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 07:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rhadnan Yvormes wrote:Yeah, he has already managed to make some isk by leveraging the facilities afforded him by his hard work, but that doesn't make it acceptable to obliterate the value of that work. And what about those of us who have invested the time and effort to obtain this privilege but have just recently reached that point, and have yet to benefit from the work we put in?
We all know (or should know) that everything in the game is subject to change at any time. Your number happens to be up this time - adapt and overcome.
Rhadnan Yvormes wrote:What about the corps that have invested the effort to be able to deploy a POS in hisec because they don't have the resources or combat capability to defend one in LS/NS?
As long as they have the capabiity to defend one in highsec they should be fine.
Rhadnan Yvormes wrote:Now they're going to have a flood of competition and aggro from much more powerful corps who previously wouldn't have bothered to mess with them
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Rhadnan Yvormes wrote:suddenly the risk to the investment in the POS and the assets of everyone involved in running it increases exponentially.
As good as it would be for the game if this change caused a massive increase in wardecs to kill POSes (with all the ship explosions that would hopefully accompany it), my guess is that there'll actually be little to no change.
Rhadnan Yvormes wrote:It's another thing entirely for everything one spent years building to be put at tremendous risk, especially when the decisions regarding the risk:reward of those efforts were made on the basis of such a long-standing game mechanic.
Risk versus reward in highsec has been considerably out of whack for many, many years. If you took advantage of that then more power to you, but you should have also factored into your decisions that eventually things would start getting fixed. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Arronicus
Ravens' Nest Outlaw Horizon.
957
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 07:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hold on, almost, so close.... nope. Don't have even 1 tear to shed. Things change. Business opportunities arise, business opportunities dry up. There's no need for compensation here, because you're not being denied anything that you paid for. You've made a lot of money off the efforts you made, not just limited to the money you got paid for doing the missions. In addition to the continuous benefits you have, like better refine rates, clone accessibility, etc. |
Rhadnan Yvormes
The Blackfeather Syndicate
2
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Posted - 2014.05.11 22:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
admiral root wrote:We all know (or should know) that everything in the game is subject to change at any time. Your number happens to be up this time - adapt and overcome.
Yes, things are of course subject to change, and with perhaps most things that's not particularly distressing. Removing all requirement of investment of time and effort, however, strays into different territory. Changing the risk:reward considerations of a hisec pos would be reasonable, but this is not merely changing the risk:reward calculation, it is directly invalidating an earned advantage. It's rather legitimate to be upset about that.
admiral root wrote:As long as they have the capabiity to defend one in highsec they should be fine.
Not necessarily, as the removal of the time and effort requirement substantially alters the pool of potential enemies against whom need to defend one may arise. There are, for example, likely to be many corps with far more firepower than such a small corp can defend against. I'll wager, though, that many such corps would not be willing to invest the time and effort currently required to anchor a POS in hisec, and thus the small corp that has a POS and sells research slots isn't a particularly attractive target. Removing the standing requirement very dramatically alters the criteria for what makes an appealing target, and by extension, the caliber and scale of opposition with which one is apt to be confronted.
admiral root wrote:Assumes facts not in evidence.
That much I will concede. Though it not yet being in evidence in no way invalidates the argument, though imperfectly worded, against the change. The risk, whether or not it materializes, is expanded from those who have a mind to take the location you have staked out AND have invested the effort to obtain the standings required in order to benefit from having it, to pretty much anybody who wants to be where you are.
admiral root wrote:As good as it would be for the game if this change caused a massive increase in wardecs to kill POSes (with all the ship explosions that would hopefully accompany it), my guess is that there'll actually be little to no change.
Risk versus reward in highsec has been considerably out of whack for many, many years. If you took advantage of that then more power to you, but you should have also factored into your decisions that eventually things would start getting fixed.
You could be right. But personally I don't necessarily agree that much more destruction in hisec would be good for the game. And risk vs reward in hisec being out of whack is rather a matter of perspective. From mine, the rewards available in hisec are pretty crappy, and that's the tradeoff I make for being more secure. What this change does is introduce, potentially, much greater competition for the already crappy rewards available in hisec, while simultaneously potentially making one much less secure in reaping them.
I thank and salute you though, for the tactful presentation of your rebuttals. Civilized discourse seems rather lacking on the boards and in this game so much of the time. |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2196
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 22:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Seriously, nobody has linked CCP Guard's HTFU videos yet? I'm appalled. As an industrialist, I have no idea what is going to happen come June 3rd. I'm pretty sure it will be chaos for several months. I don't expect to earning anything, and I might even be taking-down my POSes. There might not even be a point for me to remain in industry. Despite all that, I've had a good run, and I can't wait to see what happens. I'm looking forward to the chaos.
FTFU, Tau.
Reading through posts, will reply with something that makes sense later. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
61
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Posted - 2014.05.11 23:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Deal with it.
CCP didn't give people running the old VG's compensation when they were nerfed from ~300m/hr to ~120m/h.. They didn't give people back time trained when they changed the requirements for an Orca, or a Carrier after the fact.
Everything you did up until this point, offered you something up until this point. Now you just need to find a way to adapt, or die. |
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 23:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:CRAZYCAJUN wrote:Salpad wrote:He does have a point.
CCP could give a 1% job cost discount per 0.5 faction standing above 5.0, to reward high-standing players. It seem as if faction standing won't matter at all any more, to industry, and that is detrimental to those players who worked hard for theirs. definitely like where this is going, assuming corporation standing would be applied if personal standing isn't up to par I'd be happy with something like that >Complains about the game catering to people who dont want to work now >Has made a living selling his standings to corps so they can place their POSs without putting in work Your entire arguement is invalid.
People who don't want to work, should pay more for the convenience of said work being brought to them. I don't see how this makes his argument invalid. |
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 23:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Rhadnan Yvormes wrote:Kate Blaze wrote:Keep crying. You had your meadow till now. That is your compensation. +1 for asshattery. A market position obtained through the investment of a great deal of time and effort is not a meadow. It's an earned privilege. Yeah, he has already managed to make some isk by leveraging the facilities afforded him by his hard work, but that doesn't make it acceptable to obliterate the value of that work. And what about those of us who have invested the time and effort to obtain this privilege but have just recently reached that point, and have yet to benefit from the work we put in? What about the corps that have invested the effort to be able to deploy a POS in hisec because they don't have the resources or combat capability to defend one in LS/NS? Now they're going to have a flood of competition and aggro from much more powerful corps who previously wouldn't have bothered to mess with them, because they weren't willing to invest the effort required to earn the privilege of putting up a POS in hisec. Not only does a market advantage that took a great deal of effort to earn just disappear, but suddenly the risk to the investment in the POS and the assets of everyone involved in running it increases exponentially. It's one thing for a ship one spent a lot of time training for to be made more or less powerful. It's another thing entirely for everything one spent years building to be put at tremendous risk, especially when the decisions regarding the risk:reward of those efforts were made on the basis of such a long-standing game mechanic. Changing how hard it is to earn this privilege would be one thing. Removing the requirement TO earn it is another thing entirely. I have to concur that this is a monumentally ill-conceived plan.
They are only removing the standings anyway, because they expect POS usage to go down, and they don't want to completely destroy the ice market. Removal of standings, plus the increased consumption of Isotope fuel, is just their insurance against the removal of slots. |
Adunh Slavy
1392
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 23:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
The Compensation is less restrictions on what we can do.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
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