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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
845
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 12:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why does every new player I know in Eve set a goal for their fittings to be cap stable? This is usually at the cost of DPS, range, a prop mod, and spending a ton of ISK. Is there something in the tutorial that suggests you must be cap stable for all your fittings? (n+ìGÇ+ßâÜ)
It's usually for PVE ships but I've even had someone get a PVP frigate fitting and the first thing they said was... "It only has 5 minutes of cap. Should I add a rig to make it cap stable?" I was so tempted to say "Sure buddy because when you get into that hour long battle in your T1 frigate you don't want to run out of cap" |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1408
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Posted - 2014.05.11 12:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
because "Cap Stable" is in green and the numbers are in red. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
845
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Posted - 2014.05.11 13:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:because "Cap Stable" is in green and the numbers are in red. Maybe you have something here. Red means danger! |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
175
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Posted - 2014.05.11 13:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
When I was more noob than I am now it was quite important to me. Psychologically, to run reppers constantly and thus have one thing less to bother during the fight. And objectively, when fight lasted an hour or two or more and for most of that time I took beating, for all things concerned I had to have unlimited cap. Only later I learned that with better skills and experience I can take more risky approach with lighter tank but heavier gank.
I think it's inevitable. Everyone has to get through this period and everyone has to grow out of it. What I do is when I talk with someone less experienced is to teach them: okay, for now if it makes you feel safe go for it but remember it's not the goal; train your stuff and at the same time observe your ship, how much can it take and how far can you push the envelope. |
Flharfh Lhar
Sunset and Evening Star
3
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Posted - 2014.05.11 14:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Combat in Eve can be overwhelming to a new player, so having a cap stable ship means you have one less thing to worry about. Also, many level 3 and level 4 missions take at least a half hour. Also a noob isn't going to understand cap recharge or that it's good to pulse reppers to keep at about 35% cap - they'll just run them until they are out of cap, then be toast. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4033
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Posted - 2014.05.11 14:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:because "Cap Stable" is in green and the numbers are in red. Maybe you have something here. Red means danger! Red makes things go fastah! |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
845
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 16:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Flharfh Lhar wrote:Combat in Eve can be overwhelming to a new player, so having a cap stable ship means you have one less thing to worry about. Many level 3 and level 4 missions take at least a half hour, so four minutes of cap seems like nothing. Also a noob isn't going to understand cap recharge or that it's good to pulse reppers to keep at about 35% cap - they'll just run them until they are out of cap, then be toast.
I agree because I did the same when I was a new pilot.
When you said about a noob won't pulse his repper this may be true till they figure out how to do it. This is why it's good for new pilots to work up from smaller ships rather than jump into a BS. This way by the time they're in a BS they already know the basics like how to pulse a repper. Worse thing is by trying to make their ship cap stable instead of spending a half hour to complete a level 4 they spend hours...
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2219
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Posted - 2014.05.11 16:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Flharfh Lhar wrote:Combat in Eve can be overwhelming to a new player, so having a cap stable ship means you have one less thing to worry about. Many level 3 and level 4 missions take at least a half hour, so four minutes of cap seems like nothing. Also a noob isn't going to understand cap recharge or that it's good to pulse reppers to keep at about 35% cap - they'll just run them until they are out of cap, then be toast. I agree because I did the same when I was a new pilot. When you said about a noob won't pulse his repper this may be true till they figure out how to do it. This is why it's good for new pilots to work up from smaller ships rather than jump into a BS. This way by the time they're in a BS they already know the basics like how to pulse a repper. Worse thing is by trying to make their ship cap stable instead of spending a half hour to complete a level 4 they spend hours...
Nice oversimplification |
Tendall Antollare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.05.11 17:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Being a noob I have to ask, what is a repper?
And what is "pulsing a repper"?
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Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
127
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Posted - 2014.05.11 17:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tendall Antollare wrote:Being a noob I have to ask, what is a repper?
And what is "pulsing a repper"?
It's when you touch yourself while you're in bed.. notsureifsrs but a repper = armor repair unit and "pulsing" is when you don't run it constantly, but simply turn it on and off periodically while taking damage in order to make your cap last.
Dude, the answer to the cap stability question is simple; noobs do not understand the game very well, so they think being cap stable is actually very important, when in truth, there is much more to capacitor management than just being "cap stable", there are many factors involved. Dorian Trollmak .-á9 - 0 (2) in fucks given **** Miley Cyrus Blasters > All |
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Tendall Antollare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.05.11 17:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thanks for the quick answer! |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
793
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Posted - 2014.05.11 17:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
A repper can be of any denomination or race. They typically will tell stories, by talking real fast in a poetic fashion, with rhythm, and curse words. These stories can be very powerful and moving.
Sometimes the stories make other reppers mad, then they shoot each other and stuff. If one dies, this is known as 'pulsing a repper' |
Hasril Pux
Red Cabal
15
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Posted - 2014.05.11 17:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
The learning curve for this game is pretty steep, and having a cap stable ship helps newer players get used to piloting their ship without having to worry about energy management. Eventually they WILL have to learn to cope with that, but especially on smaller ships (due to their speed and tiny capacitors) it can lead to too much distraction and worry while trying to cope with basic situational awareness and flight control. If you like any of the older ship models (original artwork) better than the redesign of your favorite hull and don't want them to be lost forever, support ship customization and this feature request. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5397
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 17:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
I distinctly recall a time when I thought that once you "run out of capacitor" you were out... period. No recovery, no regeneration, no warping, etc... because that is how it sometimes is in other games. So it was important to always have infinite capacitor power ("cap stable") or to turn off everything when it got below the halfway point.
Only when I started PVPing did I realize, "hey... I used up everything but it's regenerating back!" *light bulb lights up over head* Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2111
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 19:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
If you don't run out of cap doing whatever you are doing on a regular basis you are pretty much cap stable.
My comet can run for less than two minutes full blast but i have never EVER capped out in it so it might as well be cap stable.
Cap stability is important, but the eft number is highly overrated. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
845
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Posted - 2014.05.11 20:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hasril Pux wrote:The learning curve for this game is pretty steep, and having a cap stable ship helps newer players get used to piloting their ship without having to worry about energy management. Eventually they WILL have to learn to cope with that, but especially on smaller ships (due to their speed and tiny capacitors) it can lead to too much distraction and worry while trying to cope with basic situational awareness and flight control.
I agree with this. When you're new to the game it can be one less worry. I just wonder why so many people hold on to it even when they get into a battleship.
I knew a guy who spent about 4 hours doing level 4's in a Raven. When I saw his fit of course not one BCS or missile rig... His answer "Well I wanted to be cap stable" |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
175
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Posted - 2014.05.11 22:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hasril Pux wrote:The learning curve for this game is pretty steep, and having a cap stable ship helps newer players get used to piloting their ship without having to worry about energy management. Eventually they WILL have to learn to cope with that, but especially on smaller ships (due to their speed and tiny capacitors) it can lead to too much distraction and worry while trying to cope with basic situational awareness and flight control. Which can be actually quite misleading. In my experience permatanking a battleship is more difficult than a cruiser or a battlecruiser, especially when you factor in sig and speed tanking, which bs-es rather lack, and gank tanking, which tends to be missed too due to poor fitting.
IIshira wrote: I just wonder why so many people hold on to it even when they get into a battleship. Because they didn't figure it out by themselves and nobody else told them about it?
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Flharfh Lhar
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2014.05.11 23:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tendall Antollare wrote:Being a noob I have to ask, what is a repper?
And what is "pulsing a repper"?
Generally an armor repairer, i.e. a module you activate to repair your armor. Can also refer to a shield booster, which does the same for shields. Both of them use a large amount of capacitor, so it's impossible to be cap stable while using repair modules without completely gimping your ship.
Of course, your capacitor naturally regenerates - and it reaches peak regeneration at around 35%, meaning that you want to avoid going much below that because then your capacitor will regenerate much more slowly, and you will consequently be able to repair less. If you use all your capacitor, any active modules you have will turn off, and you will be a sitting duck until your capacitor regenerates, which will happen very slowly.
See this page for a helpful graph: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capacitor_recharge_rate |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1413
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 23:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:because "Cap Stable" is in green and the numbers are in red. Maybe you have something here. Red means danger! Well until informed otherwise, my corpies and I all assumed this was the case. It's presentation implies cap stability is a goal. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
386
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 23:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:A repper can be of any denomination or race. They typically will tell stories, by talking real fast in a poetic fashion, with rhythm, and curse words. These stories can be very powerful and moving.
Sometimes the stories make other reppers mad, then they shoot each other and stuff. If one dies, this is known as 'pulsing a repper' Win. |
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
847
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Posted - 2014.05.11 23:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:IIshira wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:because "Cap Stable" is in green and the numbers are in red. Maybe you have something here. Red means danger! Well until informed otherwise, my corpies and I all assumed this was the case. It's presentation implies cap stability is a goal. None of us are beyond multitasking or the concept of management of limited resources, the reason this comes about is simply the visual language on the fitting screen telling you that cap stability is an achievement by changing from red to green.
You have a good point. I think many players don't understand the basic mechanics of the game. I can't tell you how many lossmails I've seen where they had mixed tank and guns.
I think this is the "Advantage" that most new pilots feel older pilots have against them. It's not that they have 80 mil SP like they think but rather know how to play the game.
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
270
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Posted - 2014.05.12 07:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
IIshira wrote:I knew a guy who spent about 4 hours doing level 4's in a Raven. When I saw his fit of course not one BCS or missile rig... His answer "Well I wanted to be cap stable" There are several factors which contribute to the drive towards cap stability but one of the most important is simply that newer characters have fewer skills... Their damage is likely to be very low, their tank thinner than older characters. When a character with 24 million missile skillpoints fits a BCU they might go from two volleys to alpha, or four volleys to three to kill specific rats - a newer player might also gain one volley but it might be one in ten or more. If it's going to take you two hours to finish an L4, where any error is going to leave you capped out, unable to run your hardeners (and probably having to look for both a new ship and your last agent) the draw of greater cap stability can be quite significant.
It is also worth considering how other games' analogues of capacitor work. If your attack chain is too much for your stamina and your toggles turn off... |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
240
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Posted - 2014.05.12 09:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sometimes you just can't underestimate lazy. When Tengus were new I remember seeing a few of them that people had fit with dual A-type small shield boosters for missions because it was cap stable and they were drastically reducing the damage they took from an afterburner's speed and signature.
If you are well versed enough in the game to know that speed/signature tanking is a thing I would suspect that you know that cap stability is not required but they do it anyway so they can just turn their tank on and push F1.
Seems really boring to me but then we are talking about something like this: cap stable? Yeah, cuz lazy. |
BigWolfUK
Ewoks of Fire
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 09:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cap stability; bane of my existence when dealing with mission runners Well, that and silly overtanking
One rule I tell them about cap, 5 minutes is enough for any level 4 mission
Simply put, (perhaps, with exception to missions that have Neuts hitting you) if you cap out with a 5 minute stability, you've either done something wrong or your skills aren't quite good enough yet
As for PvP, how often do small fights last that long anyway? Hell those of us in Spectre Fleet often are flying ships with less capacitor than that and we rarely cap out unless hit by neuts (and usually it's because a pilot hasn't turned their MWD/AB off when they should of)
Yes, we have the whole 'Keep it stable for one less thing to worry about', but to me, it's an extremely important part of the game that it's much better to learn before many other aspects
Though, Valleria Darkmoon does bring up a good point, laziness is a driving force behind it for alot of people |
Dato Koppla
Elite Guards Stealth Wear Inc.
546
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 12:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cap Booster is always the way to go (unless you're in something that has enough cap time and tank with no cap modules like the Tengu or the Marauders). Learning to manage a cap booster well it's also an invaluable PvP skill. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
847
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 12:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:IIshira wrote:I knew a guy who spent about 4 hours doing level 4's in a Raven. When I saw his fit of course not one BCS or missile rig... His answer "Well I wanted to be cap stable" There are several factors which contribute to the drive towards cap stability but one of the most important is simply that newer characters have fewer skills... Their damage is likely to be very low, their tank thinner than older characters. When a character with 24 million missile skillpoints fits a BCU they might go from two volleys to alpha, or four volleys to three to kill specific rats - a newer player might also gain one volley but it might be one in ten or more. If it's going to take you two hours to finish an L4, where any error is going to leave you capped out, unable to run your hardeners (and probably having to look for both a new ship and your last agent) the draw of greater cap stability can be quite significant. It is also worth considering how other games' analogues of capacitor work. If your attack chain is too much for your stamina and your toggles turn off... I do agree that with lower skills it requires more cap mod harder to become cap stable. When you combine this with low DPS because of low missile skills and they end up wondering why it takes so long to run missions with their with a 250 DPS cap stable Raven.
Here's my favorite fit from a corp mate... This was after I convinced him he should change the heavy launchers for cruise.
[Raven, Mike's] Internal Force Field Array I Capacitor Flux Coil I Capacitor Flux Coil I Capacitor Flux Coil I Capacitor Flux Coil I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I X-Large Clarity Ward Booster I 'Stalwart' Particle Field Magnifier Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile [empty high slot]
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hobgoblin I x4
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
748
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 13:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Some of my ships are cap stable because I use 2-3 accounts to do things and I don't have to worry about forgetting to cycle my repper. Not today spaghetti. |
Viserys Anstian
Wayward Chickens
15
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Posted - 2014.05.12 16:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
I do think it is presented as a goal. And for starting out, it might not be a bad idea. As you learn the basics of the game, understanding the balance between tanking, DPS, and capacitor becomes important. Its similar to a saying we have in my industry. You can have any two of the three.
You can have Max DPS and Cap Stable, but your tanking won't be max You can have Max Tanking and cap stable, but your DPS won't be max You can have max tanking and max DPS, but you won't be cap stable.
I think what it comes down to is comfort. WHen I build a new ship type for myself, I usually start by aiming for cap stability. I try it out for its intended purpose, and make adjustments. I gradually start trading some cap stability for DPS, then some cap for tanking if I find I'm getting chewed through. If I find I barely go below 70% cap because I'm barely using the reppers, I'll trade for some more DPS or trade some tanking for DPS.
Some of my ships are cap stable, most aren't. Just depends on how I'm using them. |
Hrett
Justified Chaos
396
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 16:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:If you don't run out of cap doing whatever you are doing on a regular basis you are pretty much cap stable.
My comet can run for less than two minutes full blast but i have never EVER capped out in it so it might as well be cap stable.
Cap stability is important, but the eft number is highly overrated.
This is true, but not so apparent to a noob - or anyone that does the majority of PVE content.
Anyway - the capacitor on frigates is fracking amazing for the length of their fights, so anything past 2 mins is essentially cap stable.
spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP! |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1073
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 16:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Many people also won't think about the fact your AB, MWD and reppers won't always be running. Those are some of the most cap hungry module on the ship and don't always need to be cycling but new player don't know about that. They make a fit and see the cap will run out when all is on. Just turning off the prop mod will enable you to regen a lot of cap while you are stationary shooting at targets for example.
Cap management + repper management + target selection + light drones control (so they don't go to 40k targets) can be overwhelming to some people so they go "safe" and stabilize what they can. |
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