Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 .. 28 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
ChironV
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 20:47:00 -
[511] - Quote
Why isn't eve more popular? Because its a hard game. Most people can't cope with a difficult game. This is why WoW has 11 million users. It has a low learning curve. It doesn't require you to think, just have fast reflexes on the keyboard, know when to pop your cool-downs, and don't stand in the fire. Eve requires thought, research, and planning. It also requires long term co-operation while making sure to watch your back. Most people don't want to invest that sort of commitment to a game. They want instant gratification or at least a guaranteed payout for their invested time. Eve has no such guarantees.
I suppose much of these expectations revolve around how game developers dumb down their games in response to the whiners complaining that it takes too much effort and want things given to them or they leave. Developers in response watch churn rates and realized that if they make the game simpler the churn rate goes down and money pours in. An analogy would be games go from Chess strategies to checkers strategies to tic-tac-toe strategies to bankruptcy. The developers don't care as long as the money train keeps pouring in. WoW is in its checkers stage. Another year or so and they should hit Tic-Tac-Toe stage.
Be grateful that Eve is one of the only games that has bucked the trend and become more complex over the years. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2491
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 20:59:00 -
[512] - Quote
Simple, limited real audience, research shows only 1 person in 20 is a sociopath! |
Sibyyl
Brave Collective
1023
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 21:02:00 -
[513] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Simple, limited real audience, research shows only 1 person in 20 is a sociopath! I think that research just shows that 19 in 20 are liars! Take solace knowing that even after the sun sets, and your sky is filled with darkness, that the sun is still shining. -D. Entervention Psychotic Monk joins BNI |
Djana Libra
DAB The Unthinkables
349
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 21:31:00 -
[514] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:I stopped reading at pitchfork wielding Looney. We forget, eve is hard, realy hard.
Since when? |
Gaellia Bonaventure
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2298
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 22:30:00 -
[515] - Quote
Eve isn't popular because at its core it's an economic simulator, not the Internet spaceship game it purports to be. Nothing wrong with that. It's a pretty good economic sim, but that's what it is as anyone can see what with all the spreadsheets. And more spreadsheets.
Oh, and more spreadsheets.
Protip: not everyone gets a bursting erection over spreadsheets.
Yeah. I know. Hard to believe. Bring your possibles. |
Maldam
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 23:25:00 -
[516] - Quote
Making it so new players feel like fodder for veteran pvpers and scammers is known in every other game not to be conducive to attracting and retaining new players. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4403
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 08:33:00 -
[517] - Quote
Maldam wrote:Making it so new players feel like fodder for veteran pvpers and scammers is known in every other game not to be conducive to attracting and retaining new players.
This is why you are warned from the start it is a very real possibility
Where as being trained up to run raids and do mindless grinds IS conducive to attracting and retaining new players, quineg? "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Oosel
The Riot Formation Advent of Fate
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:08:00 -
[518] - Quote
having played eve from beta and now still subbed but not in the real sense playing my reason for not doing so is simple..........it takes far tool long to get going especially if you have travel to do ingame |
Anomaly One
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
131
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:16:00 -
[519] - Quote
they cant "fix" the game (the sense op is talking about) without breaking it(making it WoW like) and even then it wouldn't be fixed but what they could add are some cool stuff for the 40% solo that do stay for instance, avatars in eve are nice i'd argue they are on the best in current mmos, I can relate to my character that way Skins for mining ship are another nice thing when they introduce them.. really just small little things can us half-carebearish players glad.
I'm content with the game as it is and don't want CCP to radically change anything WiS or any iteration of it would be nice though, real nice.. Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:00:00 -
[520] - Quote
Why do 80-90% of new players leave after the first few months ?
Answer.
They see the cool videos with the explosions in the 'vision' & 'expansion' trailers, hear about all the massive battles, the smashing victories & crushing defeats, also about the underside of eve with the treachery, suicide ganking, awoxing and all the rest.
and they think *uck YEAH ! im going to play that !!!
and then they log on and realise
- To play eve you need to spend 90% of the time staring at a spreadsheet overview. eg trailers look cool but u cant actually play like that. So they quit.
- If they are lucky they realise the fun stuff is player generated not EvE client generated. But then get bored cause getting into a player corp is not intuitive ingame. You need to study guides and forums to find out how and to not get scammed or join retards. and alot of the good corps require a certain SP. Which the new player doesn't have. So they quit.
TL;DR Answer
New player - it takes to long to do fun stuff and staring at spread sheets in space is s*hit. So im gone.
Solution
Get rid of the speadsheets in space, make PVE more fun and make everything in the PVE New player experience talk about the benefits of a player corporation and link them to new player friendly corps like eve uni, brave newbies etc.
Then new players might stay around long enough to discover the player driven sandbox. Cause most people leave before they find the fun stuff. Yes Eve is hard but we make it too boring for new players. "... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á| zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT ! |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4411
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:03:00 -
[521] - Quote
TL;DR Answer
New "gamer" - is lazy and stupid.
Solution
New "gamers" are a cancer "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Shari Evan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:14:00 -
[522] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote: TL;DR Answer
New "gamer" - is lazy and stupid.
Solution
New "gamers" are a cancer
The only cancer i see is your attitude. |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1941
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:32:00 -
[523] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:[...]
- If they are lucky they realise the fun stuff is player generated not EvE client generated. But then get bored cause getting into a player corp is not intuitive ingame. You need to study guides and forums to find out how and to not get scammed or join retards. and alot of the good corps require a certain SP. Which the new player doesn't have. So they quit.
TL;DR Answer
New player - it takes to long to do fun stuff and staring at spread sheets in space is s*hit. So im gone.
Solution
Get rid of the speadsheets in space, make PVE more fun and make everything in the PVE New player experience talk about the benefits of a player corporation and link them to new player friendly corps like eve uni, brave newbies etc.
[...]
As a relatively new player in regards to the quoted items:
I think it's problematic for CCP to link players to specific player friendly, player driven corps. They'd have to constantly evaluate and validate the corps on that list, whether they're still fulfilling the requirements to be there. And even in the most newbie friendly corps, and maybe especially in those who take newbies without a lot of questions, the risk to have some "bad people" who might kill a newbie corpmate is existent, I think. Imagine that headline: "Newbie scammed and killed for following CCP's instructions" ..
I do agree, though, that the importance of a player corporation should be emphasized more.
I found a corporation pretty quickly once I started looking for it (after 2 or 3 weeks of playing). It went roughly like this: I read a few recruitment threads in the forums, found a corp description I really liked, joined their ingame channel and after a short conversation I was told to apply. They offered to transport my stuff to their home system. My only precaution against being scammed was to liquidate most of my posessions so that I wouldn't lose too much in case they decided to steal from me. Well, they didn't scam me, were very helpful, and I'm happy to have taken this opportunity. I just hope I'll be able to properly repay them, as lately I have been online not very often and at bad times. Maybe I was lucky, but it didn't seem that hard to me.
As for the spreadsheets: With a reasonably-sized display (not talking anything fancy, run-of-the-mill 1920x1080) I can already enjoy quite a nice view while still having important information like the overview and local chat and other chats and fleet window. I have to admit, I wasn't in really big fleet fights so far, but whenever I play I still get to enjoy how nice Eve looks, at least I think so. Sure, it'd be nice if you could get rid of the overview and so on.. but I can't imagine it to be easy to find a better, less voluminous way of displaying the necessary information. |
Marie Trudeau
Trudeau Industrie SA
19
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:40:00 -
[524] - Quote
Gaellia Bonaventure wrote:Eve isn't popular because at its core it's an economic simulator, not the Internet spaceship game it purports to be. Nothing wrong with that. It's a pretty good economic sim, but that's what it is as anyone can see what with all the spreadsheets. And more spreadsheets. Oh, and more spreadsheets. Protip: not everyone gets a bursting erection over spreadsheets. Yeah. I know. Hard to believe.
This always puzzles me a bit when I hear it. Is it the overview that's the issue here? I'm not sure what other way there is to present that amount of information about targets that are, in many cases, too distant to see. It also always struck me as being a but more realistic than using VFR rules in a space game with very long ranges, but I guess it could be done differently without switching the game to a primarily VFR type game. Loot boxes and ship fitting isn't a spreadsheet, nor are ship controls. The market is a spreadsheet but ... it's a market. Dunno.
EVE is both an economic sim and a space combat game rolled into a virtual world. Yes, the economic sim part is one of the true cores of the game, which distinguishes EVE, and quite well I think, from your garden variety PvP pew-pew fest. But the initial designers were Econ PhDs., and of course that shows in the game -- well, again, I think.
The new player experience could certainly be improved, but EVE, as a game, will never have a hugely broad appeal because of its complexity, learning curve, slow "progression" mechanisms, and strong emphasis on teams (most MMO players are soloists for everything other than the specific content that the game in question *forces* them to do in groups -- just how it is). The typical MMO player won't like EVE, regardless of the design of the NPE, I think, although there's always room for improvement there. |
Maldam
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:46:00 -
[525] - Quote
WOW went to one extreme to attract and keep new players by choosing to dumb the game down, by instituting repetitive dailies and by ski-lifting everyone up to the same level of gear and achievements periodically. Caused mass exodus of loyal veterans, and made the game a comic book childish game.
That is one extreme.
EO seems to think remaking its tutorials is going to make a huge difference to new players, but all it is going to do is waste its time and resources. The real problem is that it has created a massively complicated game, wherein veterans have all the advantages, and a good many of them get their fun from ruining the game for the new players, who are at extreme disadvantages. EO as it currently is requires too much of new players for too long for them to become veteran players.
This is the other extreme.
Ghostcrawler refused to listen to any criticism at WOW that conflicted with his grand plan.
Will EO ever accept that the way things are now, new players have to be masochists to want to start and remain though all the time and effort it takes to be able to really compete, including more spreadsheets and formulas, etc., than college level engineering.
You heard it here: REDOING THE TUTORIALS IS NOT GOING TO MAKE ENOUGH OF A DIFFERENCE TO REMOTELY JUSTIFY THE TIME AND RESOURCES EXPENDED.
Somehow, someway, new players need to be able to get up to speed much faster, while being afforded more protection while they learn. The cost is reducing the amount of ezmode fodder for veterans to exploit, and the gain will be more players who stay, because they actually do have a reasonable fair chance before they see the wolves set free on them.
Not sure why I took the time to lay this out, I already paid the price required for this game, I do not get any of the profits and no doubt I will be personally attacked for having dared to endanger the source of easy mode prey for soured old veterans, but I think this is the gist of the issue. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4411
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:49:00 -
[526] - Quote
Shari Evan wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote: TL;DR Answer
New "gamer" - is lazy and stupid.
Solution
New "gamers" are a cancer
The only cancer i see is your attitude.
No, my attitude is a panacea
If you like CODKids and WoWheads so much, I suggest you spend some time in their presence and tell me if you still think they are what EvE needs "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4411
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:52:00 -
[527] - Quote
Maldam wrote: Somehow, someway, new players need to be able to get up to speed much faster, while being afforded more protection while they learn.
Yes, its called a sponsor or a half decent CEO, though protection is arguable.
Maldam wrote:The cost is reducing the amount of ezmode fodder for veterans to exploit, and the gain will be more players who stay, because they actually do have a reasonable fair chance before they see the wolves set free on them.
Not sure why I took the time to lay this out, I already paid the price required for this game, I do not get any of the profits and no doubt I will be personally attacked for having dared to endanger the source of easy mode prey for soured old veterans, but I think this is the gist of the issue.
Your prejudice betrays your true feelings Lord Darth "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Shari Evan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:00:00 -
[528] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Shari Evan wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote: TL;DR Answer
New "gamer" - is lazy and stupid.
Solution
New "gamers" are a cancer
The only cancer i see is your attitude. No, my attitude is a panacea If you like CODKids and WoWheads so much, I suggest you spend some time in their presence and tell me if you still think they are what EvE needs
Sure, i like more players to play EVE. The Community of EVE is at best on the same level of WoW and COD - you're the prove for that. New player will sooner or later provide assets to the game, even if its only some killmails. If you don't want new players in your game - Play solo-player games. |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1941
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:07:00 -
[529] - Quote
Maldam wrote:[... newbies being at a huge disadvantage ...]
Being kinda new myself, I don't feel that disadvantaged, and never have in a way I found injust or fun-diminishing. Sure, I can't do as much as those with more SP can do. But that's sorta expected, I think. And what I can do continues to become more and more. By now I already have at least basic skills for enough ships and roles that I didn't even get to fly all of them so far.
And aside from that, I'm just having fun in the game. Sure, I'm leaning on my corp and alliance mates, be it the experience and skills they have to allow some of the things our alliance does, or on the numbers. Still having fun, though.
And before I joined them, I tried, without much success, to dabble in trading stuff in lowsec. Lots of running away from other players and sometimes getting killed, but still fun, despite it not making me terribly rich right away, though I did make some profit. Fun > profit anyway.
Edit: I forgot to mention my conclusion: Newbies can have fun, too, as things are right now. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4411
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:07:00 -
[530] - Quote
Shari Evan wrote: Sure, i like more players to play EVE. The Community of EVE is at best on the same level of WoW and COD - you're the prove for that. New player will sooner or later provide assets to the game, even if its only some killmails. If you don't want new players in your game - Play solo-player games.
Ok, as you have no idea what Im talking about and clearly just want to launch personal attacks because you have nothing else Ill just leave you to your League of Legends tourney or whatever it is you are actually doing "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
|
Shari Evan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:16:00 -
[531] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Shari Evan wrote: Sure, i like more players to play EVE. The Community of EVE is at best on the same level of WoW and COD - you're the prove for that. New player will sooner or later provide assets to the game, even if its only some killmails. If you don't want new players in your game - Play solo-player games.
Ok, as you have no idea what Im talking about and clearly just want to launch personal attacks because you have nothing else Ill just leave you to your League of Legends tourney or whatever it is you are actually doing
Why am i attacking you? The only attack i see is the LoL thingy. Well, Still new gamers worth more than bitter vets. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4411
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:20:00 -
[532] - Quote
Shari Evan wrote: Why am i attacking you?
Probably because I don't agree that this game changing to accomodate lazy, weakminded fools is a good thing
Shari Evan wrote:new gamers worth more than bitter vets.
If by bitter vet you mean someone who can take initiative, think on their feet, isnt scared of new things and learning, doesnt want "Press A to Live" style missions/gameplay/scripting and is happy to help newcomers learn about the game
and
If by new gamers you mean idiots who are the opposite of the above
then I respectfully suggest that you dont know what you are talking about "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Priestess Lin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:22:00 -
[533] - Quote
Eve is full of degenerates who have gotten **** on in more skill demanding games where you are required to aim or utilize terrain. They love the easymode pvp and griefing without having to risk much themselves. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
6497
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:23:00 -
[534] - Quote
As I said before, people tend to look at these things backwards. "WoW has all these subs and EVE is small!" and some such.
Well, all of Wolfgang Puck's quality restaurants combined wouldn't amount to a flea in the fur of McDonald's, the $27.5 BILLION behemoth of the food industry. but which has better food and a higher class of customer?
Every time i see people talking about how they want more people in EVE I say to my self "so here is another guy who wants to turn Spago into a fast food joint".
No thanks. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4411
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:23:00 -
[535] - Quote
Priestess Lin wrote: skill demanding games where you are required to aim or utilize terrain.
Please cite these games where hiding behind a box requires skill "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Shari Evan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:29:00 -
[536] - Quote
Your assumtion that every new player is a casual gamer with no interest for a deep dive into mechanics is just plain borderline. And, if it comes to CCP - they want new players. Period. You can rumble around that you don't like new players, there will be new players, if you like it or not. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
6498
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:33:00 -
[537] - Quote
Shari Evan wrote:Your assumtion that every new player is a casual gamer with no interest for a deep dive into mechanics is just plain borderline.
Who said anything like this? New players are great, as long as they are EVE material .
Most people aren't, so it's ok that they don't stay.
Quote: And, if it comes to CCP - they want new players. Period. You can rumble around that you don't like new players, there will be new players, if you like it or not.
If CCP wanted as many new players as a game like Wow, they'd have made a Wow clone. They made a quality niche game that they have kept niche that is still profitable. This is what they should keep doing.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4413
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:35:00 -
[538] - Quote
Shari Evan wrote:Your assumtion that every new player is a casual gamer with no interest for a deep dive into mechanics is just plain borderline.
That is not what I said
But equally your claim to the opposite is also "borderline"
Borderline-what, by the way?
Borderline a lie perhaps? "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4414
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:36:00 -
[539] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Shari Evan wrote:Your assumtion that every new player is a casual gamer with no interest for a deep dive into mechanics is just plain borderline. Who said anything like this? New players are great, as long as they are EVE material . Most people aren't, so it's ok that they don't stay. Quote: And, if it comes to CCP - they want new players. Period. You can rumble around that you don't like new players, there will be new players, if you like it or not.
If CCP wanted as many new players as a game like Wow, they'd have made a Wow clone. They made a quality niche game that they have kept niche that is still profitable. This is what they should keep doing.
This is EXACTLY what Im trying to tell you Shari "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Shari Evan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:36:00 -
[540] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Shari Evan wrote:Your assumtion that every new player is a casual gamer with no interest for a deep dive into mechanics is just plain borderline. That is not what I said But equally your claim to the opposite is also "borderline" Borderline-what, by the way? Borderline a lie perhaps? the personality disorder. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 .. 28 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |