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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
542
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Posted - 2014.05.12 16:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
Neutrino Sunset wrote:I seem to recall that when Sleeper AI was introduced there was talk of that eventually finding its way into mission and belt/exploration rats, and again with the introduction of Incursions. Needless to say, nothing came from that. Hm. You know that this was already done, right? The mission/incursion AI is by design less aggressive than sleepers, but it allows them to switch targets seemingly at random.
New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3234
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Posted - 2014.05.12 16:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Why do PvP and PvE have to be different things? Inertia. Just think about how much work it would be to change every mission in the game to be a proper PvP-like experience and how many tops would be blown by people who'd no longer be able to just warp in with their battleship, F1 everything in sight, and casually collect cashGǪ Maybe the missions don't need to change. Maybe all that needs to change is their availability and payout.
Oh god. |
Pix Severus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
918
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Posted - 2014.05.12 16:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
Any interactive media that becomes popular will become terrible in short order, as it becomes populated with the frothing, semi-literate scrubs that make up the general population of this fine planet.
The internet itself is a very good example of this.
I'm not bitter at all. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4137
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Posted - 2014.05.12 16:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Its entirely possible for players to create their own missions for others to play
Of course, they arent gankproof
Oh wait thats a mission
Content generation
Im just typing random words now
Sphincter "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Prince Kobol
1711
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Posted - 2014.05.12 16:56:00 -
[35] - Quote
Its not difficult to see why so many people leave Eve after a short amount of time.
It is in part down to CCP and in part down to the community.
So your looking for a new game to play and see ad after ad for Eve, they are all about big fights involving hundreds and thousands of players and you think.. yeah that looks cool.
So you download Eve, log in and then you are faced that is the sheer tedium that is the NPE. Mine this, kill x npc, deliver this, kill more x npc.
Woot
Your thinking... "When and were do I get to shoot somebody"
So you finish the NPC and start to look for a corp.. good luck lol
You start on the forums but give up after a few minutes as most of the corps have a requirement list as long as well endowed horses *****.
You open the in game recruitment channel and again most corps will want you to be able to fly x,y and z, and have a minimum of x sp points.
On top of this you will most likely be accused of being a spai or axower or somebody will try and scam you, and that before all the trolling.
You check out the in game corp recruitment which is well awful. Again most corps will have a minimum sp requirement and will require you to fly z,x and z ship and those who will accept new people will be instantly suspicious that you are a spy or ready to awox them.
Lets not even talk about how most corps in Eve are utterly terrible. Full of alts of people who rarely log in and when they do they do not talk to anybody.
If you try and go out and find some PvP your self you will be torn to pieces every time and unless you are very lucky and the person who does kill you actually talks to you and gives you some advice and doesn't just shout noob in local then you will never succeed.
Short of actually putting new people straight into a environment like Eve Uni or RvB I'm surprised as many new players stay as long as they do. |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
462
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Posted - 2014.05.12 17:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
From what I have seen of the "younger" generation at work, unless you can play Eve on a smart phone, this game is too damned old to be bothered with... |
Prince Kobol
1711
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Posted - 2014.05.12 17:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:From what I have seen of the "younger" generation at work, unless you can play Eve on a smart phone, this game is too damned old to be bothered with...
Yes that would explain the 25mil+ daily players who play League of Legends on their smart phones.... wait a minute |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
496
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Posted - 2014.05.12 17:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
Here's another thread that is actually vaguely amusing when read within the context of this one:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=343850
Some people just aren't cut out for this particular game, and that's basically okay. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6003
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Posted - 2014.05.12 17:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Guttripper wrote:From what I have seen of the "younger" generation at work, unless you can play Eve on a smart phone, this game is too damned old to be bothered with... Yes that would explain the 25mil+ daily players who play League of Legends on their smart phones.... wait a minute
It actually explains that fairly well, given what a complete toilet that game is.
If that's what EVE has to become to get "mainstream" appeal, I say no thank you. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
236
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Posted - 2014.05.12 17:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
I dislike lights flashing out of my butt, but EVE's combat GUI is pretty sad too, imo.
EVE PVP has incredible depth, but those red squares and alphanumerical data don't exactly do a spectacular job in conveying that depth. It mostly happens in your own head, once you know enough about the game to understand what's actually happening behind the (dull) scenes.
Don't know how to improve it tbh, and certainly some vaporware dogfighting UI has no place in a fleet combat simulator. But there must be some way to make it look cooler (and more importantly, better at quickly and effectively conveing battlefield information).
I like to dream that in a couple of years CCP will make an ubercool 3D Oculus Rift interface for EVE combat (without changing the gameplay). |
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Desivo Delta Visseroff
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
225
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Posted - 2014.05.12 17:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Hmmm........
1. Fit Purple; 2. Tell Everyone; 3. Undock; 4. Profit - Community Grows
The coverage/stories you generate will grow the community.
Congratulations EVE Hero! I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses.............. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4139
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I dislike lights flashing out of my butt, but EVE's combat GUI is pretty sad too, imo.
EVE PVP has incredible depth, but those red squares and alphanumerical data don't exactly do a spectacular job in conveying that depth
But it DOES make it easy to workout WTF is happening.
I like my squares and counters, and I dont want a giant model taking up the screen while numbers fly out and effects melt my video card, thanks. "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
766
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:31:00 -
[43] - Quote
It was very interesting that the new player experience showed 50% of paying players leave after the first month, of those remaining 40 percent of the new subscribers, play solo, less than 10% of those subscribers engage in multi player activity. Now there are Hs corps with members wormhole corps with members and ls corps with members. So clearly the Big Rush to null simply is not happening. So any business that spent time, money, and effort to recruit customers who lost half of them right away and continues to do so is not addressing those customers needs and wants.
Clearly they do not all want to become nullsec team players. So why market there? Clearly they do not all wnt to become, wormholers, faction warfare players, or pirates. So why market there?
It seems that the customer is wrong,
They should love the PvP, Griefing, scamming, Ganking, and other emergent gameplay.
So just replace the customer.
Unfortunately that is not exactly working out too well is it?
So lets Change the new player experince and change the customer instead? Hmm seems that won't work either, 50% of the customers do not want to change.
Why not look at what drives customers away, Why not look at what will keep customers playing and subscribing?
Might that not be a slightly better idea?
Because if you do not, you will ending up at Christmas, giving your kids a potato, and telling them to HTFU, because that is all you can afford. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
1064
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Posted - 2014.05.12 17:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
its too boring at the beginning and the big corps make it too complicated for new people to join... its basically them who destroy the game... YouTube - Tumblr - Facebook - Twitter |
Dave Stark
5532
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:35:00 -
[45] - Quote
because when nobody's holding your hand, people tend to get lost. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
766
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:because when nobody's holding your hand, people tend to get lost.
In the wrong part of town, where you get scammed, trolled, mugged, griefed, and awoxed.
Fun isn't it?
Is it any wonder people do not choose to pay for that, apart from maybe the bottom 1% or less of the barrel.
You know most people, Even long term players *shock* do not want to play in a game version mix of downtown Detroit and a Crack house. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1508
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
I hope that they will not make this game for only 1% of people that play today. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
6424
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Dave Stark wrote:because when nobody's holding your hand, people tend to get lost. In the wrong part of town, where you get scammed, trolled, mugged, griefed, and awoxed. Fun isn't it? Is it any wonder people do not choose to pay for that, apart from maybe the bottom 1% or less of the barrel. You know most people, Even long term players *shock* do not want to play in a game version mix of downtown Detroit and a Crack house.
Then their choice to play EVE online was the incorrect one. As is yours it seems.
EVE is working as intended, it's turning away the crappy MMO players who would crap up the game with their incessant crying over every little thing that didn't craddle them while wiping their bums (damn, i said bums, i gotta stop playing EVE with Brits).
The EVE community isn't the bottom of the barrel, it's the top of the food chain. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4142
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
What I dont understand is;
when several of the above posters say;
EvE is bad for new players because X Y Z make it a bad environment
Which is the game they currently pay to play.
This game is a free roaming environment.
The truth is that most so-called video game players either do not know what to do with this freedom or find it intimidating.
You cannot blame the poor single-player experience for why more people dont enjoy the open-ended sandbox.
And you cannot say that the apple that is EvE is broken for not being an orange. "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Dave Stark
5537
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Dave Stark wrote:because when nobody's holding your hand, people tend to get lost. In the wrong part of town, where you get scammed, trolled, mugged, griefed, and awoxed. Fun isn't it? Is it any wonder people do not choose to pay for that, apart from maybe the bottom 1% or less of the barrel. You know most people, Even long term players *shock* do not want to play in a game version mix of downtown Detroit and a Crack house.
yes, a game where you aren't told to go to cave x, kill troll y, and loot purple item z IS fun.
most whiney carebears don't want to play, and that's fine. the land of trolls and purple items is still running, last i heard.
eve is simply a game for people who want to invest something in a game, and get something profoundly different out of it in comparison to your generic brain dead mmo where you log in, do the same quest every day, until you've done it for enough days that some npc will let you purchase a new sword that you're going to use to carry on doing the same quests you've done every day.
also, i think downtown detroit and crack houses are massively interesting places; just not interesting enough to risk my life for. so a risk free version of that sounds ideal, really. they have a certain je ne sais quois. |
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Dave Stark
5537
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:(damn, i said bums, i gotta stop playing EVE with Brits). just wait until the tea withdrawals kick in. |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
613
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Neutrino Sunset wrote:A recent Jester's Trek article on EN24 http://evenews24.com/2014/05/10/jesters-trek-the-seven-percent-solution/ discusses CCP's concerns with the New Player Experience and suggests that some of the guys at CCP have been struggling to understand why Eve isn't more popular. Among all the reader comments on that article one jumped out at me immediately. PvE in Eve is shite. It's completely true, there's no denying it. You warp into a level 4 mission and there are rows of red x's all arranged in neat little blobs. They sit there dumbly as you start picking off the ones at the end and only actually shoot you back when you start attacking the ones in their own little blob. They don't remote rep at all, and apart from a couple of bosses their local rep is pathetic, they almost never web or scram you, and they don't try to escape before they are killed. Ewar between NPC's and players either doesn't work at all, or is mostly a chance based mockery of real player ewar that makes using it in PvE almost completely pointless. What's more. Despite all the changes to the game over the years basic NPC combat of the kind you find in missions and belts hasn't improved one little bit in 10 years. 'Epic arcs' were added back in Dominion (2009) and touted as a framework that would permit the constant creation of new and exciting PvE with "immersive story, with dramatic arcs, unique characters, and an ebb and flow of dramatic events" in which the choices the player made would impact on how the story developed. Well what a crock of **** that turned out to be. To date there are I think 7 arcs making this a classic example of a good idea that once implemented has been pretty much left to rot on the vine. What you have to keep in mind is that anyone coming into Eve is likely to have had experience of other (often free to play MMOs), and naturally they will have certain expectations. Equally, as developers of an MMO CCP should know this and be perfectly well aware of what those expectations are. Many new Eve players will expect to be able to log in and chill out while leveling up their Raven/(faction pirate mission machine). In order to do that Eve has to provide an entry level NPC combat system that is engaging. NPCs should be hard enough to be challenging and have some basic combat intelligence. For better realism, missions should consist of fewer, harder NPCs. They should have decent tanks, remote rep in harder missions, attack in a coordinated fashion, attempt to retreat before they are destroyed, and EWAR should work the same on NPCs as it does on players. I seem to recall that when Sleeper AI was introduced there was talk of that eventually finding its way into mission and belt/exploration rats, and again with the introduction of Incursions. Needless to say, nothing came from that. Another thing that was mentioned in the article was that most players who play Eve leave almost immediately, of those that don't most play entirely solo for a while and then leave later, and that very few engage with other players at all, but the one that do engage with other players tend to be the ones that stay. Well if that's the case and you want to do something to encourage new players to engage with other players, then instead of having the new player experience being nothing more than an introduction on how to run missions by yourself, why not instead have a new player experience that focuses instead on player interaction? Here's a random thought. Instead of having new players start off in an NPC corp, why not have them start off in a Faction Warfare militia instead, and have a few extra simple missions just for brand new characters to ease them into it. They can always leave of course and revert to an NPC corp once they've completed the tutorial.
The thing that keeps me in Eve and has driven all my online friends away is the lack of skill and loot grind. Most mmo's have in place a mechanism that rewards those that can raid 23/7 to get the most level and loot. This is not the case in eve. If I play for ten years I will have more SP and options than the 1 month old player. Most newer players canGÇÖt get past this and donGÇÖt understand you have to find the role your SP allow to fill and one you like. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
6426
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote: The thing that keeps me in Eve and has driven all my online friends away is the lack of skill and loot grind. Most mmo's have in place a mechanism that rewards those that can raid 23/7 to get the most level and loot. This is not the case in eve. If I play for ten years I will have more SP and options than the 1 month old player. Most newer players canGÇÖt get past this and donGÇÖt understand you have to find the role your SP allow to fill and one you like.
Welp, that's stroke #4 I've had caused by clicking the like button, check your EVEmail tomorrow for the bill to my obamacare premiums that are now sky high.
|
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
537
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Posted - 2014.05.12 17:58:00 -
[54] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Why do PvP and PvE have to be different things? I don't drive to work in the morning and say oh I'd better not get into a crash because this isn't my PvP car. It's stupid.
CCP had said at some time they wanted to make PVE and PVP same. |
Dave Stark
5544
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 18:00:00 -
[55] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Welp, that's stroke #4 I've had caused by clicking the like button, check your EVEmail tomorrow for the bill to my obamacare premiums that are now sky high.
move in with one of your british EVE buddies and enjoy the glory of the NHS. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4146
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 18:00:00 -
[56] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:E-2C Hawkeye wrote: The thing that keeps me in Eve and has driven all my online friends away is the lack of skill and loot grind. Most mmo's have in place a mechanism that rewards those that can raid 23/7 to get the most level and loot. This is not the case in eve. If I play for ten years I will have more SP and options than the 1 month old player. Most newer players canGÇÖt get past this and donGÇÖt understand you have to find the role your SP allow to fill and one you like.
Welp, that's stroke #4 I've had caused by clicking the like button, check your EVEmail tomorrow for the bill to my obamacare premiums that are now sky high.
I too have had a similar injury
I reported it to my NHS doctor and he said that he will consult a consultant about the resultant injury in 2D6+4 years "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
498
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 18:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
The thing that keeps me in Eve and has driven all my online friends away is the lack of skill and loot grind. Most mmo's have in place a mechanism that rewards those that can raid 23/7 to get the most level and loot.
It's also worth noting that, at a fundamental level, the game design and business model of most MMOs revolves around providing the player with the illusion of accomplishment.
You go out and do some quests and level up and there's a celebratory Ding! with some pretty particle effects and you're a big winner who just "accomplished" something, even though you really didn't - on a long enough timeline, you could do nothing but roll your face across the keyboard and you would, eventually, accomplish the exact same thing.
That illusion of accomplishment is exactly what a lot of MMO players are looking for, and that's fine, but it isn't something that Eve is very good at providing, because Eve is PvP-centric. For the most part, you can't get a cookie just for showing up - you have to go out and find someone who has a cookie, knock their ass in the dirt, and take their cookie from them... which is great fun for people who enjoy that sort of thing, but is off-putting for people who, having arrived in the game, are ready to start feeling accomplished any second now, simply because they've bothered to show up. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4886
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 18:03:00 -
[58] - Quote
If only the PVe content was hybridized with PVP.
Oh think of the possibilities! And think of generations of players who started out on PVP from day one by design.
The game might even become too popular.
Unfortunately the cost and time to develop such a system to prevent "noob harvesting" would be immense. And we know there are no shortage of "the kind of people" who will do just that. I forget the name of some other MMO that I watched some kids try out where basically, if you go in alone and don't have friends waiting for you to cover for you, you will be turbo-stomped by people who have nothing better to do but wait for brand new players to gank. The reaction? About 5 minutes of trying then "screw this".
I think it can be done somehow, but it will take a lot of experimentation and it will be up to us to be patient. (meaning, don't go screaming in the forums every time CCP changes something) Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Prince Kobol
1712
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Posted - 2014.05.12 18:04:00 -
[59] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
The thing that keeps me in Eve and has driven all my online friends away is the lack of skill and loot grind. Most mmo's have in place a mechanism that rewards those that can raid 23/7 to get the most level and loot. This is not the case in eve. If I play for ten years I will have more SP and options than the 1 month old player. Most newer players canGÇÖt get past this and donGÇÖt understand you have to find the role your SP allow to fill and one you like.
I know a lot of people who have tried Eve and there biggest complaint was that trying to find a decent corp to play the game with people was next to impossible.
Not one of them even mentioned the lack of skil or loot grinding, heel they came to Eve to get away from that rubbish.
Every person I know who has played and then left complained that it was next to impossible to find a decent corp.
Recruitment Section of forum is useless to new players as they minimum sp requirements / must be able to fly x ship, must have active killboard blah blah blah.
The in game recruitment channel is just a cesspit.
The in game corp finder is also terrible.
The most difficult thing for a new player in Eve to do is find a decent corp.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
498
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 18:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:
I know a lot of people who have tried Eve and there biggest complaint was that trying to find a decent corp to play the game with people was next to impossible.
So you know a lot of people who have tried Eve and you never bothered to tell them about Eve-Uni or Brave Newbies? And for the most part, they all failed to make it to the newbie Q&A forum, where either/both of those are commonly suggested for new players? |
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