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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Umbrarum Paradisi
364
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:23:00 -
[571] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote: 1400 dps of any damage type and the ability to disengage any time it wants wasn't enough for you??
How's that? Sure I scram you, you can't escape.. that doesn't mean you won't scram me too.. And for Torps you aren't exactly going to be a long way away from your target.. even with the scram bonus.. cause of the short torp range.. Change to Cruise and low it's doing less DPS than almost any other pirate ship.. Rethink your fit. Try cruise + AB + MJD + scram + web. You can leave any time you want. Doesn't change that it has lower DPS than any of the others "A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven."
-Jovian Proverb-á |
Rajeet Achmar
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:34:00 -
[572] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Rethink your fit. Try cruise + AB + MJD + scram + web. You can leave any time you want.
And? You can do this in almost any battleship in the current state anyway, MJD is like a get out of jail free card for battleships. |
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
197
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:40:00 -
[573] - Quote
As a historic champion of all thing Caldari and related to missiles I must say I am excited. That being said I have a suggested change to the line up. I think what is missing is not a change to improve kiting (speed) as that leads us down the OP road. What is needed is improved application. That said here is what I offer:
=======================================================================================
GARMUR
Caldari Frigate Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion radius
Gallente Frigate Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion velocity
Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity 50% penalty to missile flight time
Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers Fittings: 38 PWG, 178 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 680 / 590 / 560 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 400 / 2.05 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 415 / 3.2 / 987000 / 4.38s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 28km / 650 / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Signature radius: 32
=======================================================================================
ORTHRUS
Caldari Cruiser Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion radius
Gallente Cruiser Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion velocity
Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity 50% penalty to missile flight time
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 4L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers Fittings: 900 PWG, 460 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2950 / 2280 / 2100 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 1550 / 3.16 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 245 / .48 / 9362000 / 6.23s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 300 / 7 Sensor strength: 21 Signature radius: 120
=======================================================================================
BARGHEST
Caldari Battleship Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion radius
Gallente Battleship Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion velocity
Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity 50% penalty to missile flight time
Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 6L; 0 turrets, 7 launchers Fittings: 11600 PWG, 730 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7 Sensor strength: 29 Signature radius: 370
=======================================================================================
Think about it please.
Make these ships excel at delivering non-bonus missile damage with superior bonus application. Niched? Yes! Welcomed? Hell Yes!
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |
Caleb Seremshur
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
253
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:40:00 -
[574] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Xequecal wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:Rajeet Achmar wrote:Xequecal wrote:I honestly don't understand why people are so concerned about the cruiser. It's the same DPS and range as a Cerberus. Is a scram bonus and being somewhat faster that much better than the sig bonus, T2 resists, and non-****** capacitor? The Cerb is nowhere near OP, neither is this. This, everyone is freaking out so hard, its quite fun to watch. I've never seen a 1000dps Cerberus... Both the Cerb and the Orthrus have 10 effective launchers, so whatever DPS the Orthrus can do, so can the Cerb. Um, no. Because the orthrus can leave any time it wants, while the cerb is at its mercy. That scram/disrupts range bonus has been seen before - on the gallente recons. It never occurred to anyone that it's a big deal because the recons are slow, have a crap tank, and crucially can't project much damage to a distant target - for good reason. But the orthrus is different - it has teeth, it can dual Asb tank, move quickly and dish out a lot of hurt at long ranges. You can even dual prop it or 100mn AB it with a tank and excellent dps. The Cerberus is strong and can project some dps, but it can't force a target to stay and leave when it likes.
Have to agree with this. HACs get about 50% more EHP off the bat than most t1's but only due to their resist profile which means they can save on resist rigs/mods.
The Cerb seems to lose a lot of ground to this pirate cruiser but in having said that it all pans out to availability. Perhaps with some solid competition for a good missile cruiser we will see the cerb drop from 170mil back to a much more reasonable 120-130 and the mordu cruiser will probably stay above 200mil each just thanks to market supply lag. LP store weapon cost rebalance |
Rajeet Achmar
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:55:00 -
[575] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:As a historic champion of all thing Caldari and related to missiles I must say I am excited. That being said I have a suggested change to the line up. I think what is missing is not a change to improve kiting (speed) as that leads us down the OP road. What is needed is improved application. That said here is what I offer:
=======================================================================================
GARMUR
Caldari Frigate Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion radius
Gallente Frigate Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion velocity
Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity 50% penalty to missile flight time
Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers Fittings: 38 PWG, 178 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 680 / 590 / 560 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 400 / 2.05 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 415 / 3.2 / 987000 / 4.38s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 28km / 650 / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Signature radius: 32
=======================================================================================
ORTHRUS
Caldari Cruiser Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion radius
Gallente Cruiser Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion velocity
Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity 50% penalty to missile flight time
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 4L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers Fittings: 900 PWG, 460 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2950 / 2280 / 2100 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 1550 / 3.16 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 245 / .48 / 9362000 / 6.23s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 300 / 7 Sensor strength: 21 Signature radius: 120
=======================================================================================
BARGHEST
Caldari Battleship Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion radius
Gallente Battleship Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion velocity
Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity 50% penalty to missile flight time
Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 6L; 0 turrets, 7 launchers Fittings: 11600 PWG, 730 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7 Sensor strength: 29 Signature radius: 370
=======================================================================================
Think about it please.
Make these ships excel at delivering non-bonus missile damage with superior bonus application. Niched? Yes! Welcomed? Hell Yes!
If any of these bonuses are OP feel free to adjust them but reliance on rigs is hereby gone and it allows you to curb it once you introduce modules that improve missile damage application.
So your idea is to completely remove the whole point of these ships being fast kitey ships with long point range and make them an average DPS ship? No thanks, they have like no tank and no cap. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
791
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 23:18:00 -
[576] - Quote
Rajeet Achmar wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Rethink your fit. Try cruise + AB + MJD + scram + web. You can leave any time you want.
And? You can do this in almost any battleship in the current state anyway, MJD is like a get out of jail free card for battleships.
I think you're ignoring the scram range superiority of the barghest. IT gets to choose when to leave, not the non-Mordus opponent.
Pvp is as much (more) about dictating the terms of the encounter as anything else. The Mordus ships hold all the cards in this respect without having to give up speed, damage or tank.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Rajeet Achmar
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 23:26:00 -
[577] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Rajeet Achmar wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Rethink your fit. Try cruise + AB + MJD + scram + web. You can leave any time you want.
And? You can do this in almost any battleship in the current state anyway, MJD is like a get out of jail free card for battleships. I think you're ignoring the scram range superiority of the barghest. IT gets to choose when to leave, not the non-Mordus opponent. Pvp is as much (more) about dictating the terms of the encounter as anything else. The Mordus ships hold all the cards in this respect without having to give up speed, damage or tank.
You might want to look at how much PG they are getting and fit one up before you say they don't sacrifice tank. And the barghest isnt mind blowing on the DPS scale. The only main benefit I'm seeing from these ships is nice point range and engagement distance, they are not tanky, they have no cap, and the low PG makes fits tight. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
791
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 00:02:00 -
[578] - Quote
Rajeet Achmar wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:Rajeet Achmar wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Rethink your fit. Try cruise + AB + MJD + scram + web. You can leave any time you want.
And? You can do this in almost any battleship in the current state anyway, MJD is like a get out of jail free card for battleships. I think you're ignoring the scram range superiority of the barghest. IT gets to choose when to leave, not the non-Mordus opponent. Pvp is as much (more) about dictating the terms of the encounter as anything else. The Mordus ships hold all the cards in this respect without having to give up speed, damage or tank. You might want to look at how much PG they are getting and fit one up before you say they don't sacrifice tank. And the barghest isnt mind blowing on the DPS scale. The only main benefit I'm seeing from these ships is nice point range and engagement distance, they are not tanky, they have no cap, and the low PG makes fits tight.
You can download the data files for eft from reddit. I've already put together some fits to check the numbers. Of course there are compromises, but the results are staggering.
The best dps I got from the cruiser was 1200(!!) overheated. This was with t2 hams, 4 faction bcu, t2 damage rig and some implants.
This is a *lot* of damage from a dual Asb tanked cruiser that absolutely dictates range and delivers its massive dps at range.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2128
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 00:21:00 -
[579] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:As a historic champion of all thing Caldari and related to missiles I must say I am excited. That being said I have a suggested change to the line up. I think what is missing is not a change to improve kiting (speed) as that leads us down the OP road. What is needed is improved application. That said here is what I offer:
=======================================================================================
GARMUR
Caldari Frigate Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion radius
Gallente Frigate Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion velocity
Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity 50% penalty to missile flight time
Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers Fittings: 38 PWG, 178 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 680 / 590 / 560 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 400 / 2.05 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 415 / 3.2 / 987000 / 4.38s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 28km / 650 / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Signature radius: 32
=======================================================================================
ORTHRUS
Caldari Cruiser Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion radius
Gallente Cruiser Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion velocity
Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity 50% penalty to missile flight time
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 4L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers Fittings: 900 PWG, 460 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2950 / 2280 / 2100 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 1550 / 3.16 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 245 / .48 / 9362000 / 6.23s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 300 / 7 Sensor strength: 21 Signature radius: 120
=======================================================================================
BARGHEST
Caldari Battleship Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion radius
Gallente Battleship Bonus per level: 25% bonus to missile explosion velocity
Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity 50% penalty to missile flight time
Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 6L; 0 turrets, 7 launchers Fittings: 11600 PWG, 730 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7 Sensor strength: 29 Signature radius: 370
=======================================================================================
Think about it please.
Make these ships excel at delivering non-bonus missile damage with superior bonus application. Niched? Yes! Welcomed? Hell Yes!
If any of these bonuses are OP feel free to adjust them but reliance on rigs is hereby gone and it allows you to curb it once you introduce modules that improve missile damage application.
You are quite clearly not fit to give suggestions on anything missile related.
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
389
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 00:24:00 -
[580] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
The Cerberus is strong and can project some dps, but it can't force a target to stay and leave when it likes.
Exactly. This is why the Orthus is scary and the Cerberus is not.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
|
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
389
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 00:27:00 -
[581] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Pvp is as much (more) about dictating the terms of the encounter as anything else. The Mordus ships hold all the cards in this respect without having to give up speed, damage or tank.
This dude gets it, but I still think the Barghest will not be that popular unless it can do more paper DPS. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Mingja
Perkone Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 00:33:00 -
[582] - Quote
I came excited..
I saw:
No application No mids for Application mods
I am disappointed till we get application mods for lowslots.. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
197
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 00:33:00 -
[583] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:You can download the data files for eft from reddit. I've already put together some fits to check the numbers. Of course there are compromises, but the results are staggering.
The best dps I got from the cruiser was 1200(!!) overheated. This was with t2 hams, 4 faction bcu, t2 damage rig and some implants.
This is a *lot* of damage from a dual Asb tanked cruiser that absolutely dictates range and delivers its massive dps at range.
The main problem with the ship is the same problem as the Cerb and every other medium-sized missile ship - medium-sized missiles can't apply damage to small targets. HAM or HML fit, you're going to get soloed by a Malediction and it's going to be embarassing. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2128
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 00:43:00 -
[584] - Quote
http://puu.sh/8Kvy8.png
Stealing this from sharpt..
That is pretty much my definition of ******* broken. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Mordus Angels
894
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 00:54:00 -
[585] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:http://puu.sh/8Kvy8.png
Stealing this from sharpt..
That is pretty much my definition of ******* broken.
With LG snakes, a billion in booster (not to mention the second toon) etc etc.
Looks like the nerf T3 argument, blow two bil on ships boosters and implants .....for a cruiser.....and whine about it being broken. |
Syzygium
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
41
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 00:55:00 -
[586] - Quote
The Comparison of the Orthrus to "other speed kiters" is silly.
Cerb: - limited to kinetic damage - 30% less speed - 20% less agility - 20% less damage
Cynabal: - comparable speed, comparable tank - less agility - 20% less damage closerange, 70% less damage longrange - tracking issues at very high speeds
Vagabond: - see Cynabal, just a few percent inferior
Vigilant: - 25% less tank - less agility - comparable DPS shortrange, zero DPS longrange (Blaster) - comparable DPS midrange, 50% less DPS longrange (Railguns) - heavy tracking issues at high speeds (no tracking bonus on ship, bad base tracking of rails)
NavyOmen - 50% less tank - 20% less speed - 30% less DPS
All ships that can compare in Speed have a FAR lesser damage projection, a FAR lesser point range and/or a significantly lower survivability. All ships that can compare in Damage Projection have a FAR lesser Speed, Agility and rawDPS or DamagetypeLimits.
Reconsider!
|
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
197
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:00:00 -
[587] - Quote
Syzygium wrote:The Comparison of the Orthrus to "other speed kiters" is silly.
Cerb: - limited to kinetic damage - 30% less speed - 20% less agility - 20% less damage
Where does this keep coming from? Cerb and Orthrus have the same number of effective launchers. The DPS difference between the two is two light drones, not 20%. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Mordus Angels
895
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:02:00 -
[588] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Syzygium wrote:The Comparison of the Orthrus to "other speed kiters" is silly.
Cerb: - limited to kinetic damage - 30% less speed - 20% less agility - 20% less damage Where does this keep coming from? Cerb and Orthrus have the same number of effective launchers. The DPS difference between the two is two light drones, not 20%.
Not to mention a significant advantage on tank in the resist and sig departments. |
Syzygium
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
41
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:11:00 -
[589] - Quote
just go an build it in EFT. Cerb with RLMs Fury, 2 Ballistics, T2 Damagerig and 3 Warrior II is 558 DPS Orthrus with RLMs Fury, 2 Ballistics, T1 Damagerig and 5 Warrior II is 659 DPS
So either the EFT is broken, or the Cerb is at around 15% lower DPS and significantly lesser speeds. While the DPS is not what matters. What matters is, that you can easily catch the Cerb with Speedcruisers while you cannot catch the Orthrus with anything that survives the approach. |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3569
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:13:00 -
[590] - Quote
Many of us been waiting a long time for a missile-based Pirate ship, so could some of you please stop trying to kill these before they're even released?
The Cerberus deals 738 damage (868 overheated) out to 37.9km with Rage heavy assault missiles ... The Tengu deals 886 damage (1042 overheated) out to 25.2km, also with Rage heavy assault missiles... And the Orthrus does 738 damage (868 overheated) out to 25.2km as well, again with Rage heavy assault missiles. These numbers are with V skills and 4x T2 BCUs.
I'm honestly not sure where some of you are getting your numbers from, but even with +5 implants and Faction BCU's you'll be hard-pressed to break 1000 dps (even overheated) in the Orthrus. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
|
Syzygium
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
41
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:17:00 -
[591] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Many of us been waiting a long time for a missile-based Pirate ship, so could some of you please stop trying to kill these before they're even released?
The Cerberus deals 738 damage (868 overheated) out to 37.9km with Rage heavy assault missiles ... The Tengu deals 886 damage (1042 overheated) out to 25.2km, also with Rage heavy assault missiles... And the Orthrus does 738 damage (868 overheated) out to 25.2km as well, again with Rage heavy assault missiles. These numbers are with V skills and 4x T2 BCUs.
I'm honestly not sure where some of you are getting your numbers from, but even with +5 implants and Faction BCU's you'll be hard-pressed to break 1000 dps (even overheated) in the Orthrus. No one with a brain will fly these ships shortrange with Rage HAMs. Everything on that ship screams KITE KITE KITE. |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cult of Mooby
183
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:23:00 -
[592] - Quote
Syzygium wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Many of us been waiting a long time for a missile-based Pirate ship, so could some of you please stop trying to kill these before they're even released?
The Cerberus deals 738 damage (868 overheated) out to 37.9km with Rage heavy assault missiles ... The Tengu deals 886 damage (1042 overheated) out to 25.2km, also with Rage heavy assault missiles... And the Orthrus does 738 damage (868 overheated) out to 25.2km as well, again with Rage heavy assault missiles. These numbers are with V skills and 4x T2 BCUs.
I'm honestly not sure where some of you are getting your numbers from, but even with +5 implants and Faction BCU's you'll be hard-pressed to break 1000 dps (even overheated) in the Orthrus. No one with a brain will fly these ships shortrange with Rage HAMs. Everything on that ship screams KITE KITE KITE. I think the point was more that, even with the highest damage fit possible, the numbers aren't nearly as OP as has been stated. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
197
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:24:00 -
[593] - Quote
Syzygium wrote:just go an build it in EFT. Cerb with RLMs Fury, 2 Ballistics, T2 Damagerig and 3 Warrior II is 558 DPS Orthrus with RLMs Fury, 2 Ballistics, T1 Damagerig and 5 Warrior II is 659 DPS
So either the EFT is broken, or the Cerb is at around 15% lower DPS and significantly lesser speeds. While the DPS is not what matters. What matters is, that you can easily catch the Cerb with Speedcruisers while you cannot catch the Orthrus with anything that survives the approach.
That's because the Cerb has a RoF bonus which empties the RLMLs faster. With any other missile system the DPS is the same. |
Syzygium
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
41
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:30:00 -
[594] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: I think the point was more that, even with the highest damage fit possible, the numbers aren't nearly as OP as has been stated.
The point is, that you cannot just compare DPS and say "oh looks fine!". You need to compare how these ships are used and how they can apply the damage, how they can survive and how they can dicate the fight.
And on all those fields the orthrus is so much more capable than the Cerb, that it is not even funny. The only scenario where Cerbs might be the better choice is with massive Scimitar/Basi Support in larger Gangs because then is when resist and sig count.
In Smallscale/Solo both does not matter that much. Speed & Damageprojection is what counts. And currently, the Orthrus just outclasses any other ship when it comes to these abilities, by far. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2129
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:30:00 -
[595] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:http://puu.sh/8Kvy8.png
Stealing this from sharpt..
That is pretty much my definition of ******* broken. With LG snakes, a billion in booster (not to mention the second toon) etc etc. Looks like the nerf T3 argument, blow two bil on ships boosters and implants .....for a cruiser.....and whine about it being broken.
Balance by cost doesn't really work.
It especially doesn't work when you aren't putting most of your isk at any real risk. These ships are dumb without links. With links they are broken as all hell. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3571
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:35:00 -
[596] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:I think the point was more that, even with the highest damage fit possible, the numbers aren't nearly as OP as has been stated. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. For starters, a T2 damage rig and a fourth Faction BCU is only going to add a few %; max. Implants will get you another 10-12%, again - max. I get 899 damage with 4x Faction BCUs, a T2 Warhead Calefaction rig and a pair of +5 implants. 1060 overheated. Aside from the fact that damage application is not going to be great against anything other than slowboating cruisers, there's the abysmal range of just over 25km. And we haven't even touched on the fact that this adds close to $750-million to the cost of a supposed PvP fit. So can we stop with the hysteria and theatrics? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cult of Mooby
183
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:37:00 -
[597] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:I think the point was more that, even with the highest damage fit possible, the numbers aren't nearly as OP as has been stated. That's exactly the point I was trying to make.For starters, a T2 damage rig and a fourth Faction BCU is only going to add a few %; max. Implants will get you another 10-12%, again - max. I get 899 damage with 4x Faction BCUs, a T2 Warhead Calefaction rig and a pair of +5 implants. 1060 overheated. Aside from the fact that damage application is not going to be great against anything other than slowboating cruisers, there's the abysmal range of just over 25km. And we haven't even touched on the fact that this adds close to $750-million to the cost of a supposed PvP fit. So can we stop with the hysteria and theatrics? No! Competitive missiles are bad, mmkay? |
Syzygium
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
41
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:38:00 -
[598] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:I think the point was more that, even with the highest damage fit possible, the numbers aren't nearly as OP as has been stated. That's exactly the point I was trying to make.For starters, a T2 damage rig and a fourth Faction BCU is only going to add a few %; max. Implants will get you another 10-12%, again - max. I get 899 damage with 4x Faction BCUs, a T2 Warhead Calefaction rig and a pair of +5 implants. 1060 overheated. Aside from the fact that damage application is not going to be great against anything other than slowboating cruisers, there's the abysmal range of just over 25km. And we haven't even touched on the fact that this adds close to $750-million to the cost of a supposed PvP fit. So can we stop with the hysteria and theatrics? Congratulations, you just named all the points why no one will use HAMs on that ship. Good that we agree here.
However, you still seem to be unable to understand how kiting ships are flown and why a 400 DPS kiting ship blows the **** out of a 1000 DPS brawler any time it can avoid being catched. Maybe at some point you will. |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3572
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:51:00 -
[599] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:No! Competitive missiles are bad, mmkay? Here's the reality: For PvP you're going to run T2 launchers, 3x T2 BCU's, a DC and Faction ammunition. You're not going to run flares, rigors or catalyst rigs - it'll be field extenders or trimarks. Maybe a pair of +3 implants. So what are the "real" numbers?
GÇó T2 rapid light missile launchers/Faction ammo ... 534 dps-burst (344 eps-actual) GÇó T2 heavy missile launchers/Faction ammo ... 453 dps GÇó T2 heavy assault missile launchers/Faction ammo ... 612 dps
Where on Earth some of you are getting 1200+ dps for a PvP fit is beyond me, because no one in their right mind is going to take a $1-billion plus ship out for sh*ts and giggles. PvE is another matter entirely, but it always is. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3572
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 01:56:00 -
[600] - Quote
Syzygium wrote:Congratulations, you just named all the points why no one will use HAMs on that ship. Good that we agree here.
However, you still seem to be unable to understand how kiting ships are flown and why a 400 DPS kiting ship blows the **** out of a 1000 DPS brawler any time it can avoid being catched. Maybe at some point you will. Not Rage heavy assault missiles, anyway. Faction or Javelin are a distinct possibility. Rapid light launchers are most likely going to be the preferred medium of choice for PvP brawling. And I'm not disagreeing about your assessment, but there's a very big difference between an actual 400 dps kiting ship and the 1200+ dps monster that's been suggested. What we've got is a 400-600 dps ship that's not substantial different from the Cerberus or Tengu in terms of damage application. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
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