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Verone
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Posted - 2006.05.28 16:04:00 -
[31]
Im 18 months, I've seen it once from a guy I witnessed ransoming someone in local.
The victim lost a Thorax after paying for it's release, and I scanned out the agressor who was in a Cyclone and popped and podded him for his troubles.
Surprisingly enough the same person, who shall remain nameless as he's been killed several times for this once incident by various parties, has responded in this thread, hammering people who do it and saying they've never seen it.
Ironic, isn't it? 
VETO RECRUITMENT
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Krulla
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Posted - 2006.05.28 16:10:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Traeon
I always had the strong suspicion that unhonored ransoms are just a myth perpetuated by carebears. Why? I've never seen a pirate not keeping his word and podding his victim after he had paid. Ever.
QFT.
Not honoring ransoms is bad for buisness, clean and simple. Bad for the carebears too, as they will lose more ships.
Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs.
Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob
SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
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Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.05.28 16:46:00 -
[33]
I think people need to look at things in a different perspective, and put new labels on things.
A pirate is someone who will destroy a ship with no ransom, no conversation and no regard for you. They just want to destroy your ship and loot the wreckage.
A Privateer is someone who will warp scramble you, drop you to hull, then stop and offer a ransom. They want you to pay. They do it for the fun, and for the money. They pride them selves on their never destroying a ship unless the target smacks or ignores the ransom.
Pirates are plentiful. Privateers are not, and unfortunately are a dieing breed. From what I've read from teh vets, privateers used to be plentiful. But now they are not. Now Pirates are plentiful. Pirates make it hard for Privateers to do an honest days work.
then we have someone, who is neither pirate nor Privateer. They are the Alliance/Corp enforcer. They just kill anyone who's in their region whos not blue. The NBSI rule. This person WILL loot the wreckage, but their primary goal is to destroy invaders. That simple.
The problem is, all 3 of these to the carebare(read non PvP orientated player) are seen as Pirates. But they ARE 3 distinct groups. With distinctly different reasons for doing what they do. And people need to learn WHY they were killed. Was it for the kill, for the loot/ransom or to defend someone's territory.
The Brotherhood of Light. Small Corp. Big Fun. |
fmercury
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Posted - 2006.05.28 17:07:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Verone
Surprisingly enough the same person, who shall remain nameless as he's been killed several times for this once incident by various parties, has responded in this thread, hammering people who do it and saying they've never seen it.
the call is coming from inside the house
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JoeT
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Posted - 2006.05.28 18:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Morrigan Starlover
Putting words in my mouth now are ya? Maybe just followin me around, bringing up irrelevant topics. Whatever, i'll bite.
Your jab is wholey based around a 'dishonorable attack', words that only you have used this far, scratching my head as to why you put them in quotations..
When you enter lowsec, you do not automatically assume that most people are hostile, because most people aren't. Most people you can trust not to attack you.
So a blinking red blob warps in on a noob and demands payment.
First lets review the reasons that this noob should trust:
Now that we've covered that list, lets look at why this noob shoudn't trust you:
-You are flashing red.
-You have performed a random act of aggression.
-You've probably picked a target that has absolutely no chance in hell of defeating you in combat.
-etc
Yeah.. Whether or not most of you follow through on your promise is irrelevant to most. What matters is that everything about the situation is untrustworthy. Im shocked that you find it surprising.
random? its not random. NBSI. nothing more, nothing less.
---
Murder Murder, yes indeed, K-I-L-L-I-N-G
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Ctair Pilru
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Posted - 2006.05.28 18:48:00 -
[36]
Yeah..most people are really skeptical about ransoms. The typical ransom conversation is usually something like
Pirate: 5m or you pop
Pirate: 20 secs...
Victim: Okay
Pirate: 10 seconds!
Victim: Are you going to kill me anyways?
Pirate: No.
Victim: Okay *sends isk*
well, that or they start cursing you out and trying to win the fight
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DruzidelCastro
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Posted - 2006.05.28 20:11:00 -
[37]
If any VHI dishonors a ransom or smack talks they'll be finding the door very quickly. As for dishonoring ransoms, it goes a bit like this: Some pirates make most of their money off ransoms, so it would be pointless to kill the target after they send money. They would never trust you again, so should you run into them a second time they won't pay. They would tell all of their friend's that X corp are a bunch of *******s who cannot be trusted, and business would be ruined. Not only that, but anti-pies have a habit of sitting there with a group of 20 battleships sitting on the gate while smack talking the alleged pirate, so it'd be bad to have them specifically looking for you. And guess what? I ran into a cyclone today and ransomed him for 15mil. He was taking too long so I decided to finish him off. A few minutes after he popped, I realized that he had actually paid me 15mil a split second before he died and my wallet had lagged. I re-opened a convo with him and sent the money back, to which he responded "If you ever need any help and I'm around just call me." ........... then I sold him back his loot for 11mil  Just goes to show what being fair can get you.
--------------------------------------------------
ehy. ehy damn u. :D ARRR |
Requiescat
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Posted - 2006.05.28 20:20:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Eternal Fury
I think people need to look at things in a different perspective, and put new labels on things.
A pirate is someone who will destroy a ship with no ransom, no conversation and no regard for you. They just want to destroy your ship and loot the wreckage.
A Privateer is someone who will warp scramble you, drop you to hull, then stop and offer a ransom. They want you to pay. They do it for the fun, and for the money. They pride them selves on their never destroying a ship unless the target smacks or ignores the ransom.
Pirates are plentiful. Privateers are not, and unfortunately are a dieing breed. From what I've read from teh vets, privateers used to be plentiful. But now they are not. Now Pirates are plentiful. Pirates make it hard for Privateers to do an honest days work.
then we have someone, who is neither pirate nor Privateer. They are the Alliance/Corp enforcer. They just kill anyone who's in their region whos not blue. The NBSI rule. This person WILL loot the wreckage, but their primary goal is to destroy invaders. That simple.
The problem is, all 3 of these to the carebare(read non PvP orientated player) are seen as Pirates. But they ARE 3 distinct groups. With distinctly different reasons for doing what they do. And people need to learn WHY they were killed. Was it for the kill, for the loot/ransom or to defend someone's territory.
err... no?
a privateer is someone contracted by a country's government to pirate another country's ships. privateers have never existed in eve, as there's no real way to implement that sort of thing with eve's system.
what you've messed up is the difference between a pirate and a murderer. murderers are cool, don't get me wrong, but pirates are much cooler.
there is a problem with dishonorable pirates, noob pirates who want to be able to brag (yeah, i killed him anyway muahahaha) and stuff like that, but the antipirates are much worse...
Max sig image dimensions are 400w x 120h & 24,000 byte filesize. --Jorauk |
Ehker Gerete
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Posted - 2006.05.29 02:22:00 -
[39]
All I have to say is if anyone in my corp or who I'm flying with doesnt honor the rasom they wont need to take a trip home.
--------------
blah blahblah blah blah blow up stuff blah blahblahblah kill blah blahblahblah destroy |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.29 04:38:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Logan Xerxes
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Samirol
It is the 2% that don't
Where do you get this 2% from? >.<
86% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Lies, it's 93%.
I would imagine a more practical 'kill after ransom' figure would be 0.2%. Ransoms happen a ton, and it's just the few loud screams that will make it seem worse. I doubt any committed pirate does it, because its just bad for their business. Pirates would always ransom someone when it was worth it, which usually ment merchants or nobility/royalty. In EVE, it's abit broader. Alot of people can shell out a few million isk to save their pod and unless the pirate is some corpse-collecting freak, or the victim is smacking like a 'tard, there's really no reason for them to not honor the ransom*.
*I'm aware there are 'other reasons'. 
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Lojik
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Posted - 2006.05.30 01:03:00 -
[41]
Originally by: gooeyhuz
Edited by: gooeyhuz on 28/05/2006 09:57:48
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: goohuz
Well, I don't know about you, but I've read that here myself in this very forum, posted by pirates bragging about how they collect ransoms and still kill the ship/pod anyways. It does seem to be a minority, but anyone who says they've never read a pirate post such bragging here is either full of crap, or has serious difficulties with reading comprehension. I've only been playing Eve for 3 months, and I know I've read a few such posts already.
Goo
Since theres a search function I'd appreciate you linking those posts.
In fact, since ur pretty new I'll give you 2 mill ISK for every thread you link where people brag about getting a ransom and then killing the ship / pod.
Any self respecting person would go out of their way to kill such a "pirate".
So goohuz, come on, back up your words. Now you have a good incentive too.
Actually, the isk isn't an incentive at all, because as a miner I can make that amount a hell of a lot quicker than it takes to scan through the back posts. However, I will find the posts and link them, just because, I guess It'll take me a day or so, as I took a quick peek and I have about 40-ish pages of threads to go through.
-edit- oops, posted with an alt, but it's fairly obvious he's mine /shrug.
Goo
It has been two days, i dont want to be pushy but i would realy realy like to see those posts you claimed you read. I personnaly belive that any pirate who dis honours a ransom should be tortured until death, cloned, then tourtured again. 
Sig has been hijacked :(
The Newb with an Attitude |
Dentara Rast
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Posted - 2006.05.30 02:00:00 -
[42]
whats wrong with dishonouring a ransom exactly?
A true pirate is someone who will take you for all he can before disposing of you.
As far as im concerned, im going for the kill but if I can get isk out of victim first, I will.
Do you really think in the age of the buccaneer pirates would attack a ship, board it and say give us your money and we will let you go and then honour it?
No, they would get what they can from the victims, promising safety if they cooperated, find all the secret stashes on the ship, then kill them and 'send a prize crew' or sink the ship.
Your confusing pirates with country men who were granted a letter of 'marque' authorising them to plunder enemy ships. Ransoming was a part of this process as the sovereignty took a percentage of the loot, and or wanted prisoners that would be held to ransom.
A pirate is a murderer, plain and simple.
Those that ransom dont deserve the title pirate.
This is why im the best
This one is for the Forum Mods :)
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Jaos Nekri
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Posted - 2006.05.30 02:55:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Jaos Nekri on 30/05/2006 02:56:00
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=330478
Post by JoeT
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=330478&page=5
Page 5 of same post, by Draquin (Person destroyed after paying randsom)
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=330478&page=6
Amuse -- Another pilot destroyed
I don't request any cash for these links, but there's enough other ones in this forum(I just happened to remember this thread) to create enough distrust of pirates in general that to most (myself included) it's not worth loosing your ship and several million ISK.
[EDIT] Thank you to the above poster for proving our points and validating our distrust.
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Guntaro
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Posted - 2006.05.30 06:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dentara Rast
whats wrong with dishonouring a ransom exactly?
Because being a pirate does NOT automatically mean you are also a LIAR.
So if you don't honor your ransoms that makes you both a pirate and a liar.
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.30 07:00:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Guntaro
Originally by: Dentara Rast
whats wrong with dishonouring a ransom exactly?
Because being a pirate does NOT automatically mean you are also a LIAR.
So if you don't honor your ransoms that makes you both a pirate and a liar.
my several years long experience in this game clearly shows that pirates keep their word much much better then a non-pirate.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:07:00 -
[46]
I love ransom topics.
My Advice is don't ransom unless its a freighter. I've made more from the kills recently than from the possible ransoms.
Ransomming takes time and its making a bad name for honest pirates who want to simply kill everything they see for the loot.
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:28:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Dentara Rast
whats wrong with dishonouring a ransom exactly?
A true pirate is someone who will take you for all he can before disposing of you.
As far as im concerned, im going for the kill but if I can get isk out of victim first, I will.
Do you really think in the age of the buccaneer pirates would attack a ship, board it and say give us your money and we will let you go and then honour it?
No, they would get what they can from the victims, promising safety if they cooperated, find all the secret stashes on the ship, then kill them and 'send a prize crew' or sink the ship.
Your confusing pirates with country men who were granted a letter of 'marque' authorising them to plunder enemy ships. Ransoming was a part of this process as the sovereignty took a percentage of the loot, and or wanted prisoners that would be held to ransom.
A pirate is a murderer, plain and simple.
Those that ransom dont deserve the title pirate.
The answer to this statement is obvious, and you sir are a fool. And furthermore apparently a blagard!
It isn't necessarily about keeping our word (although it is for me). If every pirate in eve ransomed ships and then killed them, who would pay ransoms? No-one.
I'd love every victim to pay me ransom, seriously, because from the majority of ships I kill I get a t1 mining laser and an expanded cargo hold 1.
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
ReaperOfSly
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:52:00 -
[48]
Watched a fraps vid a while ago where a pirate got his victim to sing "like a virgin" over TS, pay 20mil and then popped him anyway. And the first 20 posts in that thread were congratulating the pirate 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Ayame Mishima
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Posted - 2006.05.30 10:21:00 -
[49]
Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd
Ransomming takes time and its making a bad name for honest pirates who want to simply kill everything they see for the loot.
If I see a mining barge full of ore, that is hardly worth the loot (I tend to destroy these strip miners and cargo expanders sadly  ) It is definitely more interesting to put up a ransom than to simply blast them away... what shall I do with 4000 m¦ of Jaspet etc.?
Or if you find a BS with mining lasers sitting at an asteroid... the loot would mostly consist of Mining Lasers, Drones and Stabs.
Anyone considering a difference between ransoming pirates and those who don't just doesn't seem to get the point. Both do it for the same reasons. To get valueable things, be it either money or loot from the target. There is no one having a better name. It is simply that when you ransom someone you do it because you think you can get more out of that than out of the loot.
Just one thing you shouldn't do. First ransom and then when the ransom is payed blast him. That is bad for buisness... IRL you would harldy meet him again, but IG you will... and dead people IG tend to be very very talkative on the boards. 
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smartass
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Posted - 2006.05.30 11:02:00 -
[50]
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Watched a fraps vid a while ago where a pirate got his victim to sing "like a virgin" over TS, pay 20mil and then popped him anyway. And the first 20 posts in that thread were congratulating the pirate
yeah, i remember this one. I believe it was mang0o from cosmic fusion in his nosf Apoc. When people "like" a corp/person, keeping the word doesnt really matter i guess.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.05.30 11:11:00 -
[51]
CCP have stated they are moving NOS and warp scrambling to a % basis ie attacker versus defender with stats say 9 to 1 giving the attacked player a 10% chance of warp out per cycle or attempt - if they pursue this avenue ransoming will become much less certain as pods might get away unless u have like 20 points scramble on em.
This might alter things on that front - i have seen ransoms not honoured but its usually alt spies - rapid change type characters in terms of lots of corps or even NPC corp (noobie corp solo pirates - pilots - PVPers) that can get away with it given their lack of political association - most real pirate cors are at least hounrouable to let u go if u pay a ransom
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Elegant
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Posted - 2006.05.30 18:09:00 -
[52]
The whole forum battle about ransoming is really amusing. I've got a question for the pirates in the room;
Who cares?
A ransom is generally mutually beneficial. If someone won't pay it has the same result no matter what rubbish they use to justify it.(The result generally being a satisfying explosion.) No skin off your back.
Don't fool yourself into thinking that this whole ruckus is influencing anyone. Just look at the people who use the argument; They're so full of impotent rage that you'd infringe on their gaming experience that they feel the need to show token resistance. They'd do it even if they couldn't spout the tired old line of dishonoured ransoms.
Those who actually can be persuaded to pay ransoms generally will be if you approach them in the right way. Focus on them and kindly oblige the resident anti-ransom victims in their earnest desire to wake up with that fresh-clone taste in their mouth.
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Dirtball
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Posted - 2006.05.30 18:23:00 -
[53]
We always honor ransoms.
If you dont want to lose your ship say so in local, scoop your drones(if they are not dead already), velocity = 0.
If you have friends in local you might not get the option to ransom until your in a pod.
Unless we are full of loot we will not be the ones offering to ransom your ship, but pods will always be privatly convo'd.
5 Reasons why you got pod killed.
1. War Target
2. Almost at jump/dock range
3. Didnt accept convo/blocked(we keep all ransoms private, incase your friends are the dont pay ransoms type that may give you crap)
4. Scanner detected additional warships which results in immediate podding
5. Fight is still going on and allowing you to redock and come back out does not seem to be a good option
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Jason Marshall
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Posted - 2006.05.30 19:46:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Morrigan Starlover
Let me explain oh great and honorable pirate.
We carebears view random acts of aggression as dishonorable, imagine that!
Those who hold you hostage for a ransom are performing a random act of aggression, and are therefore considered dishonorable by us carebears.
Thus, we carebears do not trust dishonorable players who perform dishonorable actions, to honorably follow through on a promise. And those who do are fools.
That definitive enough for ya oh Miss Honor?
Hmm,i kinda disagree, yes they are being agressive. and no thats not a reason not to trust them. Ive said this before most of em are nice guys and ladies that decide to make there living locking down ships at gates and either ransoming them or destroying them. The thing i see is that they will honor the ransom....if they even bother =\ i hardly ever get ransomed its jsut one big 'target, lock, shoot loot' fest. but meh
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Bentguru
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Posted - 2006.05.30 20:06:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Jaos Nekri
Edited by: Jaos Nekri on 30/05/2006 02:56:00
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=330478
Post by JoeT
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=330478&page=5
Page 5 of same post, by Draquin (Person destroyed after paying randsom)
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=330478&page=6
Amuse -- Another pilot destroyed
I don't request any cash for these links, but there's enough other ones in this forum(I just happened to remember this thread) to create enough distrust of pirates in general that to most (myself included) it's not worth loosing your ship and several million ISK.
[EDIT] Thank you to the above poster for proving our points and validating our distrust.
The post by Joet is stating that he will blow up a hauler that wants to pay, not that he will accept the ransom and THEN blow it up.
Draquin states that he was blown up by somebody after paying the ransom, then says that he will from now on. From his posts I gather that he is not a pirate, but rather somebody who's mad. Still, he also didn't name the person, so there's no way to make sure he's telling the truth.
Same situation with Amuse.
So we have two un-confirmed reports that it happend to them. Personally I'd take screenshots or, better yet, fraps for proof, since i'm naturally distrusting.
Still only 2 reports of it, and probably over 200 ships get poped/ransomed every day. Thats a low number.
And add petition inc's name to the list of corps that will instantly boot and pod anybody who dishonors a ransom.
--
New Petition Inc Vid
This signature is protected by the pattented NoDev 2000 technology. THERE WILL BE NO COLORS
But colors are fun!!-Kaemonn
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Yeux Gris
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Posted - 2006.05.30 20:31:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Dentara Rast
Do you really think in the age of the buccaneer pirates would attack a ship, board it and say give us your money and we will let you go and then honour it?
Actually piracy is still alive and thriving in this day and age..
drug lords luxury yachts cost them a mere pitance of the true value gotten from real life pirates who board the ship put the ocupants into a live raft and set them afloat.
Why you ask?
Simple they KNOW they are insured. will get another boat and that can be stolen too :)
Why milk a cow then cook it the next day when you can have milk for several year?
that makes no sence.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Ren Dition
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Posted - 2006.05.30 20:53:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Since theres a search function I'd appreciate you linking those posts.
In fact, since ur pretty new I'll give you 2 mill ISK for every thread you link where people brag about getting a ransom and then killing the ship / pod.
Any self respecting person would go out of their way to kill such a "pirate".
Here is one.Number 40 in this very thread.
Quote:
As far as im concerned, im going for the kill but if I can get isk out of victim first, I will.
By the way, do you think that you could give me that 2,000,000ISK in cash? My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax bracket.
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Jaos Nekri
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Posted - 2006.05.30 21:09:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Bentguru
Still only 2 reports of it, and probably over 200 ships get poped/ransomed every day. Thats a low number.
Speaking of making up numbers...
You don't trust people to report truthfully that they were randsomed then podded, yet you expect trust that you'll not blow someone up after you've randsomed them?
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Lala Ru
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Posted - 2006.05.30 21:51:00 -
[59]
Question: People say that a pirate will honor a ransom because if they don't their reputation will be ruined. In that case, what's to stop someone from saying that a pirate dishonored a ransom when (s)he really didn't? Who do you trust, the pirate or the person making the accusation?
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Superbus Maximus
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Posted - 2006.05.30 22:01:00 -
[60]
No one ever pays me so I never bother to ask, unless its a 1v1.
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