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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Xendie
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Posted - 2006.05.31 07:10:00 -
[1]
i dont see gallente using projectiles or minmatar using rails in order to tank and do dmg anywhere near what caldari can.
i gotta agree, something needs to be done to Amarr ships and guns.
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Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.03 08:38:00 -
[2]
unfortunetly Malken is no longer able to post so he cant reply to your post.
and its isnt about pure dmg it is total survivability in the end. a autocannon apoc with a 1600plate survives longer and kills more then a megapulse apoc who has higher cap use and less armour and only does 2dmg types. the autocannon apoc can do all dmg types thus being able to swap to the dmg needed wereas the megapulse apoc cannot. as for ammo cost i dont think you have seen the costs for tech2 crystals.
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Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.08 04:14:00 -
[3]
Originally by: The ArchWarder I dont see any reason why they cant just swap the EM and Therm dammage around so that lasers to more Therm dammage than EM.
Dont say nething about racial dammage either, just look at gallente and their kin dammage, minmitar with their (all) dammage and caldari with their (all) dammage.
looks to me that amarr needs to get up on the medium and long range dmg if that is going to be their role now. gallente had their boost now and is great for close range and very good for long range. minmatar and caldari does all dmg types so they should be lower in dmg output and stay there. amarr needs to be boosted.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.08 08:20:00 -
[4]
with tux's new idea of prolonging combat im miffed on how he thinks of doing that. if dmg is lowered across the board any other BS will be able to tank the amarr until they run out of cap wich no other race will do to the same extent. if resistances is increased across the board then amarr is screwed again due to the high resists of their main dmg type EM. if armor and shields are increased then its the same as armor got a huge resist to EM and its not so hard to get pretty good EM resist on shields either nowadays. and any combination of these will even further screw up amarr.
i fail to see how the Devs are thinking.
can we get the old "ship balancer" dev back pls?
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.08 09:26:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Xendie with tux's new idea of prolonging combat im miffed on how he thinks of doing that. if dmg is lowered across the board any other BS will be able to tank the amarr until they run out of cap wich no other race will do to the same extent. if resistances is increased across the board then amarr is screwed again due to the high resists of their main dmg type EM. if armor and shields are increased then its the same as armor got a huge resist to EM and its not so hard to get pretty good EM resist on shields either nowadays. and any combination of these will even further screw up amarr.
i fail to see how the Devs are thinking.
can we get the old "ship balancer" dev back pls?
How does increasing shield/armor hp act like a "huge resist to EM"? An HP increase is NOT the same thing as a resistance increase. Also, how exactly does increased HP only affect amarr?
a HP increase would hurt amarr ships the most. 3 races armor tanks their ships, amarr gallente and minmatar 2 of the races shield tank, Caldari and minmatar minmatar has extra resists versus amarr weapons with a increased armor on ships who armor tank and thus has the most armor to chew through would get even worse for amarr as amarr does primarily EM dmg wich is the absolutely highest average resisted dmg type.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.08 11:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Spartan239
Originally by: Rockbox Thanks for taking the time to proveme wrong.
Anyways...
Dps of Amarrian weaponry on tanked HPs..... discuss!
Hail and Barrage do kin/exp as do lots of the minimatar t1 ammo with the upped use of invuls on ships like ravens how come there not moaning
they got EMP ammo that does *shock* EM and Explosive dmg. also they can do over 3kdmg with one shot thus making it a theoretical 3k*6=18k dmg Amarr i think ive seen one shot ever over 2k and just barely, nevertheless 2k*8=16k dmg and no explosive dmg on the end for the armor. that is one extreme volley each and yes ive seen the over 3k with tech1 ammo on tech2 guns for minmatar, ive only seen 2k hits for amarr with gleam T2 crystal.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.08 12:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Xendie on 08/06/2006 12:03:18
and a tempest can get to 20x dmg modifier with arties while a apoc with tachs get what? 11-13?
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.08 17:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Al Haquis
Originally by: Xendie Edited by: Xendie on 08/06/2006 12:03:18
and a tempest can get to 20x dmg modifier with arties while a apoc with tachs get what? 11-13?
You didnt get the mail about the apoc beeing the tanker while the geddon is the dmg ship.
But the main bonus of amarrian ships is that they dont eat through ammo like rabit dogs.
Trust me this is a huge bonus.
With love from Al Haquis.
then why does a tier1 BS like the Domi have as good tank as a apoc or even the raven have as good if not better tank then the apoc? supposed to tank my ***.
as for not chewing up ammo? if you loose your raven with a few hundred tech2 torps what in isk value do you loose counting th ammo?, a couple of mill? when you loose a apoc fitted with tech2 crystals you loose 16 tech2 crystals wich total ranges from around 3mill-4mill a pop wich makes it around 48mill to 64mill in just ammo losses if you had both gleam and aurora on your ship for all the guns. thats 48 to 64 million isk in just ammo ??????????? almost a spare Battleship ????? half a HAC ?????
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.08 17:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: zapp brainigan Malken for president
w00t
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:26:00 -
[10]
ppl need to read abit i think.
this thread is not about nerfing others or saying that they didnt deserve the boost they have got now. the thread is about amarr ships being left behind with no boosts or "balancing" to make it a equal playing field.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.10 20:44:00 -
[11]
when you consider a tachyon2 setup on a apoc with long and short range T2 crystals the cost is staggering.
tachyon 2's = 40mill Aurora crystals = 40mill Gleam crystals = 35mill
thats 115mill worth just to power the highslots i seriously doubt that any other race with tech2 fittings are forced to load up with 115mill worth of highslots just to function ?
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.11 09:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: BlackHorizon A griffin, a Caldari tech 1 frig, has the same sensor strength as the geddon.
Boost amarr please, they need more help than simply a boost to lasers.
rofl, Tux balancing 4tL
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.11 15:39:00 -
[13]
funny stuff, griffin a T1 frigate i might add got a higher sensor strenght then a T2 Command ship the Absolution.
now something is wrong is this dont you think?
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.11 19:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Aemilus Brutus I don't much care about sensors. I think there are bigger issues with Amarr that need to be addressed. Adding sensors to the list may muddy the water a bit. I say look at tanks, damage, and fittings before sensors.
its another thing to add though. the Amarr ships dont shine at all in well to be frank... everything from dmg to tank or sensor strenght or economy. to be frank its not a viable race to play anymore if you want any value for the isk you put in to it. all the other races cost less to fit, tanks better, does dmg better.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.12 09:22:00 -
[15]
not much but still less 11313 armor+shields for the raven 10969 armor+shields for the apoc
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.12 10:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Forsch All Amarrian ships should just have an inbuilt laser cap reduction, not in form of a bonus. Free up the one bonus slot on many Amarrian ships and add something else. Amarrian technology should be the only one able to support the cap hungry lasers.
P.S. Yes, I'm also training projectiles currently and I'm pleasantly surprised. Choosing different ammo types tinkered for the specific encounter, not using any cap to fire, artillery for the 'BOOM' - big damage effect, autocannons for really good close range damage and insanely low fitting... can't really beat all those advantages. They are alot more fun to play with as well. *looks at lasers and sighs*
it feels very wrong though doesnt it?
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.12 23:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Forsch
Originally by: Talos Darkhart Amarr whining makes me laugh amarr are not bad it's just got more balanced gone are the days when a whole alliances fleet consisted of 90% Amarr battleships.
Hehe, that must have been an amarrian roleplay alliance, that is still trying to 'stick to their guns'. But hey, I can understand that more and more people train different races, even in the CVA.
with the character in wich ive mainly trained amarr with i do want to fly amarr ships with and use amarr guns but its becoming less and less fun to do that with the way amarr ships are atm
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.13 08:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Agama
I love my amarr ships but I have all but given up on them now. The crap CPU, next to no mid slots, crap gun bonus and the fact other races actually have useful cruisers, don't have ships with 1 mid slot!!! (wtf?), and actually have 2 good HACs, Assault ships, etc etc.
i totally agree with you, to much crap with to many amarr ships, it needs to be fixed.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.15 10:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: madaluap
What i do/dont support: 1. explosive crystals, c'mon just think it over gamebalance would die.
i dont see why not. if its such a gamebreaker then why is caldari and minamtar not breaking the game? if added properly it would work
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.15 16:39:00 -
[20]
Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 15/06/2006 11:53:10
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: madaluap
What i do/dont support: 1. explosive crystals, c'mon just think it over gamebalance would die.
i dont see why not. if its such a gamebreaker then why is caldari and minamtar not breaking the game? if added properly it would work
Whats properly? Give them low damageoutput with explosive and ammar would wine that it doesnt make a diffence, give them higher damageouput and it would be like:
F1-F7 shield gone, reload, F1-F7 armor gone boom, no other race would be able to match that. Minmatar have relativly low dps because they have coloured damage, caldari aswell because they have tank+multi coloured damage.
But it will never happen, its a wrong "fix" changing all ammar ships like that, dont forget npc and such. Angels are minmatar and deal mostly explosive+other damage. Would be weird if sansha start dealing that kind of damage.
Ammar simply have EM+therm damage and yes its true because of EAN2 this sucks now. But try to find a fix around this instead of changing damagetypes of a race.
thats why this thread is on its 23rd page now, we are trying to discuss different avenues. and your input is not input its crying and whining of the extreme kind, isnt it your bedtime soon?
as you would have seen in this thread (if you had read it) you would see that the problems go far beyond just poor dmg output. and adding the explosive crystals would solve that if tweaked properly.
as for your fears of ammo doing EM+Explosive have a look at the EMP ammo for minmatar, it havent broken the game yet and yes ive seen 2 tempests and one mega offloading one volley each and blow up a raven.
another ammo suggestion has been to swap the primary dmg from EM to Thermal wich is not a bad idea. other suggestions have been to tweak the bonus for the amarr ships in general and some specifics.
so maudalup discuss or go to bed just dont ramble on and cry pls.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.15 16:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 15/06/2006 14:49:42
Originally by: Exogene
Originally by: madaluap But well who cares, nobody flies hacs in pvp anyway, last zealots i saw were whoring lvl 4 missions or doing complex.
You really don't know what you are talking about
lol yeh i do, nobody flies hacs in pvp exept:
1. alliance bears 2. rich carebears, but he! they are carebears 3. You i guess?
And i mean flying them, not being ganged up with 35 other hacs slaying tech 1 cruisers, while having a full rack of stabs...
i have flown sacri,zealots,curse's,pilgrim's and still do when i feel like it on my other account. on this one i fly cerberus,rook's and falcon's and im no "alliance bear" or "rich carebear" i just try to use those tools when its needed and dont go on suicide runs with them.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.15 16:43:00 -
[22]
btw... i fly the gallente hacs and recons also and enjoy them much
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.16 10:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: twit brent Read the first post.
I will start believing amarr suck when i see a tempest or railthron get the 976 dmg/s my tachy geddon does with guns alone.
if you read through you will see that a mega with 425II's does about 5% more DPS then a tachyon poc.
someone did the calculations a few pages back.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.16 13:41:00 -
[24]
who cares about tach's ? i want to be able to have a decent tank while using megapulses on my apocs and do equal dmg and be able to tank equally much as other races can. today that isnt possible.
tachs are fine as they are imho, they work nice from long range wich they should but the problem is that you cant tank and do any kind of decent dmg at short range like ravens, megas and domis.
and then we have the cruiser problems wich really needs a whole new rework to function properly. and on top of that there is silly fitting problems for the amarr interceptors and frigates as the beam versions of small guns only fits on the cruisers and not on the frigates. imagine how much ppl would scream if their races cruisers could only fit small guns if they wanted a tank on the cruisers.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.16 17:31:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Spartan239
Originally by: Xendie who cares about tach's ? i want to be able to have a decent tank while using megapulses on my apocs and do equal dmg and be able to tank equally much as other races can. today that isnt possible.
Erm I'm kinda confused yoru saying you can fit a full rack of 800's on a pest and 2hvy nos/cruiser/seige with a decent tank without having to sehild tank and fit a load of pdu II's
Dual lar megatrhon +neutrons is still impossible
and fitting a x booster II on a raven with full rack of seige is nigh on impossible so maybe fittng top tier weapons is meant to be hard
i dont say that i should be able to fit it without any engineering mods but considering that there is no dmg bonus on the apocs and everyone says that apocs are supposed to be the great tanking ships it shouldnt take more then 2 engineering mods to fit 8 megapulses and dual rep with hardeners.
i can fit 8*800's with a dual rep and 3 hardeners and dmg mods on a apoc and by doing so does same dmg with better tanking. also when doing that there is no need to carry around 70+mill worth of ammo either.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.16 18:58:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Xendie on 16/06/2006 18:58:35 its not like ppl who use amarr guns can grab 250 shots of 2 types of ammo and thus getting away cheap, if using a apoc they have to take with them the value of ca:8000*2=16000 shots and thus around 70mill+ in just ammo.
quite unbalanced isnt it?
i wonder what every other BS pilot whould say if they had to carry 70+mill worth of ammo in their ships if they wanted to shoot tech2 ammo ?
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.17 10:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: twit brent The armageddon is the amarr gunship BS. Using the apoc to compare damage is just pointless.
so lets compare tanking with the dominix then? is that better? both gallente BS tanks better and does more dmg at the same time then a apoc so what do we compare to? amarr frigates?
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.17 11:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: twit brent
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: twit brent The armageddon is the amarr gunship BS. Using the apoc to compare damage is just pointless.
so lets compare tanking with the dominix then? is that better? both gallente BS tanks better and does more dmg at the same time then a apoc so what do we compare to? amarr frigates?
Did i say apoc tanks better, did i say apoc cant do damage and tank?
No, i said when comparing damage use the geddon so wtf are u quoting me for?
so tell me what is the apoc good for at close range? tanking?, nope Dmg dealing? nope little of both? nope
this thread was first and foremost about the apoc and why it is able to tank better using projectiles and having as good dmg with projectiles. and yes the apoc with pulses doesnt measure up to the apoc with autocannons.
also the geddon doesnt have any tank when using megapulses to do enough dmg. and this is where you scream and spout that it shouldnt have it either, i say why does the Dominix do comparable dmg while tanking then? dominix is a tier 1 and so is the geddon. only really good thing that geddon does now is as a tachyon sniper in wich case he needs to haul around 70+mill of ammo also
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.17 13:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Frools
Originally by: Xendie
also the geddon doesnt have any tank when using megapulses to do enough dmg. and this is where you scream and spout that it shouldnt have it either, i say why does the Dominix do comparable dmg while tanking then?
domi doesnt do comparable damage to a geddon... zealot outdamages a domi in raw dps its not damage that makes the domi great its the combination of decent damage, nos and ew geddon needs a little bit of cpu if anything, aside from that its fine and it rocks
domi does about same dmg and tanks well and can use ECM at the same time. why cant amarr atleast be able to fit a rack of megapulses with no engineering mods? if to fit a tank also then engineering mods should be needed. atm this is not the case.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.18 20:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Double TaP
Originally by: Imperial Coercion Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 17/06/2006 10:46:15
Originally by: twit brent my tach geddon will blow up any ship faster than a railtron can by a long way unless that ship is set for just EM + thermal tanking.
Pffft. I had an encounter with a Raven here the otherday. Range was about 100-ish. I got the raven to 60% shield when I was at 50% armour and had to warp out(because with tachs you cant even fit a repair module. Raven used cruise missiles and I used auroras.
And yes, I got all gunnery skills maxed out on top of bs lv5.
Oh so your tier one ship didn't beat a tier 2 ship that can mount a great tank?
i think someone used the argument earlier when they thought that the dominix should beat a Apoc. and if all ships are to be of as close to equal in dmg+tanking ability as any other BS then they need to look at the amarr ships.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.19 15:09:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Dano Sarum I wish tux would hold my hand and make a post here.
wont happen, he doesnt fly Amarr ships.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.19 16:46:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Dano Sarum I wish tux would hold my hand and make a post here.
wont happen, he doesnt fly Amarr ships.
Who's in charge of Amarr balancing then?
looks like Tuxford is but he is busy boosting gallente, caldari and minmatar. not he nor any other dev has responded to the facts that amarr ships are so royally screwed up atm due to all the boosting of every other ship that is not amarr.
personally i think its pretty weak of the devs to not look on the ramifications to one race when boosting the others. this is shown very clearly with the fact that all other ships generally is better choices then amarr for amarr specialized players in almost every aspect.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.22 04:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Rockbox
Originally by: The ArchWarder
The vengence is pretty much the only PVP viable AF for amarr and must fit dual lights in order to fit any kind of tank.
End
and the Vengence still blows at pvp, even after the changes +1 pg ftw \o/
what can you expect? we all know that Tux dont use any amarr ships by now.
the change to the vengeance still doesnt make it a viable option or even a comparable option to the jaguar, wolf, enyo, ishkur, harpy or hawk.
did you notice that none of those ships are amarr btw?
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.22 12:20:00 -
[34]
Originally by: The ArchWarder Yes raising the PG by 1 is a joke. If the PG is gona get raised well then ffs raise it by at least 5 so that it actually makes a difference.
i bet it was done so they could go back and say "look we did boost amarr"
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.23 13:46:00 -
[35]
Originally by: BurnHard
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Originally by: dabster People who keeps on chanting "Matar can change damage types", seriously cant be flying Matari themselves. This is the most moot and over-exaggurated 'advantage' there is.
It has absolute zero meaning in actual pvp 99% of the times, stop mentioning it ffs. Also, 10 seconds reload isnt exactly great you know.
Hey there.
Amarr bs lv5 and large beam spec and pulse spec lv4 here, and my tempest with named t1 guns and minmatar bs lv4 and large projectile lv4 still pwns my geddon.
I suppose it should too. Thats tier 1 v tier 2. Try doing an Apoc/Tempest or Geddon/Phoon comparison and then see what the results are. (I'm not having a go, just saying it might make a difference...).
so why does a dominix have any chance against a Apoc then? domi is tier1 and apoc tier2
your logic is flawed
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.23 13:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sniser
what tank? you already need 2 rcu t2 for taychons and 2 rcu t2 + pdu if you want use Large armor repair
but you can fit 8*800 AC and 2 Large T2 reps and 3 hardeners and 2 dmg mods on a apoc with no RCU2 or PDU2 and do equal to better dmg with less cap usage and do all dmg types.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.23 14:52:00 -
[37]
Originally by: korrey
Originally by: Xendie
but you can fit 8*800 AC and 2 Large T2 reps and 3 hardeners and 2 dmg mods on a apoc with no RCU2 or PDU2 and do equal to better dmg with less cap usage and do all dmg types.
Holy crap whats wrong with EVE...Look around you man. Thats the whole point of these 2,094 Amarr threads. The 'POINT' is that the best Amarr setups involve using AC's....thats screwed up. I see mallers with AC's, I see Prophs with AC's, I see Omens with AC's (Not very smart though). Everything is AC's.
And to the Devs who never respond anyways, dont you think somethings wrong when -**AMARR**- arent using -**LASERS**- ?
Amarr is a broken race. And its amazing that the devs dont seem to care at all. Im sure it wont affect there payroll but my $15 a month may drop. Its ghey when the race I spec in sucks so bad I have to go to another race.
thats pretty accurate and tux seems content with boosting gallente, caldari and minmatar and gives the suckiest amarr assault frigates 1 extra powergrid and 1 extra lowslot to fit something that takes only 1 powergrid so they can say that they actually boosted amarr, go figure.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.23 21:24:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Anal awereness
Originally by: Exogene
The apoc tank won't last as long as the Raven tank. That is your problem, you think but you don't know ****, excuse my french.
/off topic
Problem is, everytime a guy disagrees in these threads he gets flamed to the ground, called a frenchboy and told he doesnt know ****.
I have never seen such an unfriendly discussion before. Just being plain rude.
/back on topic
That guy said that tanking basicly is crap. I replied saying: isnt that the source of the entire problem
people tanking EM/THERM. I just found that odd, thats all.
what do you expect with a name like anal awareness and comes here and have no clue what you are talking about? especially since you said that you didnt bother reading the earlier posts in the thread.
btw.. isnt your name against the naming conventions somehow?, atleast i find your name very offensive mr alt.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.24 01:05:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Amanda Zeherah These were my thoughts while reading the 28 pages-topic:
LOL what a noob (the OP)... surely he does not know the devastating power of lazors
Anyway I kept reading this topic to stay in touch of my beloved and specialisING race... the powerful and superior Amarr
Hmmmm... topic seems to suggest the all-mighty lazor sucks...
Nah... its a lie... those fools...
Ohhhh... some convincing data that the Amarrian ships and lazors I'm specialising in REALLY sucks...
Having played purely Amarr for nearly 9 months now... I realised Im the inexperience fool... but how could it be? Something is really wrong..
OMG OMG OMG... Lazors sucks... Amarr sucks... The ships Im specialised in sucks... MY 9 month old character sucks...THIS GAME SUCKS!!!
My eyes are bleeding... where are those devs!!! Someone please tell me I havent wasted nearly 4 months worth of training to be an AMMARIAN specialist...
the op has all amarr ship skills bar command ships to L5, he also had small and medium pulse and beam spec to5 and large pulse and beam spec to 4. furthermore the op has done pvp for a couple of years in his amarr ships. i do think that the op has some clue on amarr ships.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.24 10:14:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Amanda Zeherah
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Amanda Zeherah These were my thoughts while reading the 28 pages-topic:
LOL what a noob (the OP)... surely he does not know the devastating power of lazors
Anyway I kept reading this topic to stay in touch of my beloved and specialisING race... the powerful and superior Amarr
Hmmmm... topic seems to suggest the all-mighty lazor sucks...
Nah... its a lie... those fools...
Ohhhh... some convincing data that the Amarrian ships and lazors I'm specialising in REALLY sucks...
Having played purely Amarr for nearly 9 months now... I realised Im the inexperience fool... but how could it be? Something is really wrong..
OMG OMG OMG... Lazors sucks... Amarr sucks... The ships Im specialised in sucks... MY 9 month old character sucks...THIS GAME SUCKS!!!
My eyes are bleeding... where are those devs!!! Someone please tell me I havent wasted nearly 4 months worth of training to be an AMMARIAN specialist...
the op has all amarr ship skills bar command ships to L5, he also had small and medium pulse and beam spec to5 and large pulse and beam spec to 4. furthermore the op has done pvp for a couple of years in his amarr ships. i do think that the op has some clue on amarr ships.
My previous post was about my thoughts (in bold) when I started reading the OP until the end...
I thought the OP was a joke and lazors were balanced... noobie me...
However responses from other players strongly suggest that Amarr technology is getting out-dated/behind the other races...
Hopefully by the time my 9 month old character is ready for PvP, this issue would be solved/improved... otherwise im stuffed... badly screwed... well all pure Amarrs are/will...
In the end, I dont think my upcoming Absolution ship will be the beast I was hoping for...
absolution is a pretty nice machine, but we werent talking the pimped T2 ships here but the basic tech1 ships wich are in a shamble due to crappy overall balancing of the game.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.24 14:34:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth Edited by: Mahavy Seth on 24/06/2006 13:37:24 What about modifgy amarr weapons cap bonus into a 12% cap usage per level instead of 10? And also increase all base amarr ships capacitor by 5% or 8%?
You will give a boost, stay in balance, do not give the same used to be DAMAGE BOOST that all pray always for, and stay in line with amarr philosophy of tanking and NOS ships. Also, may be a good thing to make t2 crystals last nearly forever.
In my opinion this will solve the problem without adding another pathetic damage boost...
Edited: one of the major problem peoples seem to whine at, is the fact that amarr ships use a ship bonus for a "bonus" that do not truly is a bonus... 10% is not suffice for be compared with a +5% damage of other races.
you would still do better dmg and tank better with a full rack of autocannons then with a rack of megapulses.
fittings need to go down cap use needs to go down, the reasons for adding the high cap usage and the bonus to cap usage is gone as i doubt we will see oldschool scorps wtfpwn with their tachyons.
dmg needs to go up slightly by either swapping EM/thermal ratios or add the explosive crystals that were slated for release until all gallente and caldari and minmatars spammed the forums against it.
Apoc will still not be a dmg beast so it will need a new resist bonus or some kind of armor bonus to take its place as tanker doing decent dmg as it should be.
small and medium sized beams and pulses needs their fittings sorted as almost all T1 frigs and cruisers for amarr works better with autocannons then what they should use. the same goes for Prophecy.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.25 00:43:00 -
[42]
Tsual, you forgot the part where you cannot use small sized beams on frigate sized amarr ships. they are only usable on cruisers due to silly fittings.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.26 01:44:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sarmaul So far the only argument I've seen is "EANM tanks hurt amarr battleships". If you really think that's a good enough reason to get explosive crystals than I'm glad you don't work for CCP.
Yes, I'm fully aware that other arguements have been put forward as well but most if not all of them have been wrong/lies/biased/bull****.
so its wrong/lies/biased/bull**** that you... 1. can fit 8*800mm AC + dual rep tank with 3 hardeners and capinjector and 2dmg mods and do more average with no engineering mods on a apoc? 2.that a apoc with said setup can tank better and do same/better/more varied dmg? 3. state of small beams fittings is screwed up? 4. that the prophecy and maller works very well with autocannons? 5. aurora+gleam crystal set sets you back 60-75mill for a apoc
im pretty sure i forgot a few things along the way since its so many things with amarr thats screwed up.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.26 04:38:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sarmaul Edited by: Sarmaul on 26/06/2006 02:15:23 "1. can fit 8*800mm AC + dual rep tank with 3 hardeners and capinjector and 2dmg mods and do more average with no engineering mods on a apoc?"
Sadly you run out of CPU before all that fits unless you use the best named passive hardeners and the worst named web.
i can fit all that + scram and web on my poc, infact i have that right now.
Quote:
"2.that a apoc with said setup can tank better and do same/better/more varied dmg?"
I'll agree it can run a better tank due to the projectiles. As for damage, lets compare it with a DHPL II Apoc with 2 damage mods.
DHPL2 would/should be more equal to 650's and not 800's.
Quote:
With no resistances applied, the DHPL does more damage. With 5 55% hardeners, they do virtually identical damage for the first 5km until the projectile falloff kicks in. DHPL then do more damage. Against EANM tanks we all know projectiles win, but that's because they can target the weaker resistances.
and what is the major type of tank for pvp nowadays?, thats right EANM tanks where the projectiles on the apoc does more dmg since beams/pulses do EM dmg so much wich is silly resisted with such tanks. thnaks for making my point even clearer again.
Quote:
"3. state of small beams fittings is screwed up?"
I believe tux has said this needs to be corrected.
tux dont comment on amarr issues as he dont fly them at all he only boosts other races all the time, next question?
Quote:
"4. that the prophecy and maller works very well with autocannons?"
That's because it's still viable to fit oversized plates in PVP. By using autocannons you can free up more grid. Vagabonds, Muninns and Deimoses work well with lasers in certain situations as well.
wich means that something is wrong, all amarr ships should have a inherent bonus to fittings on beams and pulses then right so they dont have to use autocannons or rails due to grid issues. as for PVE with beams on a vaga, mininn or deimos, its not amarrs fault that some ppl are dumb.
Quote:
"5. aurora+gleam crystal set sets you back 60-75mill for a apoc"
And I've burnt that much in ammo on my projectile ships. You forget that you have to carry around a full cargo hold of ammo (3-4 different types in large quantites) unless you want to run back to the station every 5 minutes. As for the pricing of the T2 crystals, that's the T2 market for you.
you are not forced to take 60-75mill worth of ammo with you to shoot one shot with each gun, you can load 1 ammo in each gun for that.
Quote:
The reason T2 explosive crystals were pulled was because it would hurt minmatar too much. The devs stated that they won't make it back into the game until Minmatar get something equally as sexy. Come up with that and you'll get explosive crystals. Remember, it has to be as good if not better than doing "wtfpwn" explosive damage.
its not as bad as amarr weapons cant kill a vagabond with a EM hardener on unless theres 5+ of them shooting at it. 90%+ res against amarr's primary dmg type 4tl very balanced already isnt it? how about making minmatar being only able to shoot kinetic and explosive and have amarr ships have those hardened to 90%+ with 1 hardener, balanced yes or no?
Quote:
edit: sorry for the bad formatting, it's 3am and I really need some sleep :P
yes you do, goodnight
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.28 19:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth I have readed that TomB Himself will reply to this only when we reach page 50 or more.
propably because Tux looked up "Amarr" in the dictionary and he couldnt understand what we were talking about
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.28 21:33:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Commander Thrawn just give us explosive t2 crystal and 15% less cap instead of 10%. done and done :)
Think up something just as good for Minmatar and you'll get explosive crystals.
I really wish the devs hadn't even mentioned them tbh :/
dont you already have that in your tech2 ships?, almost total immunity against current amarr dmg ?
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.28 23:08:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Commander Thrawn just give us explosive t2 crystal and 15% less cap instead of 10%. done and done :)
Think up something just as good for Minmatar and you'll get explosive crystals.
I really wish the devs hadn't even mentioned them tbh :/
dont you already have that in your tech2 ships?, almost total immunity against current amarr dmg ?
We have the lowest DPS, hence getting explosive damage.
Do you really think Amarr should get almost the top DPS and crystals to target the most common weakest resistance? Think very carefully about your answer.
You're *****ing about not being able to kill 2 HACs and 2 Assault Frigates easily. I can't kill Caldari ships easily as they get damage bonuses to my weakest resist. Shall I cry on the forums about it and claim all Minmatar ships are useless because I have a hard time with some Caldari ships?
And remember, conflag is almost 50/50 EM/Thermal. Yes I know it messes up your tracking but so does hail, which is completely useless against Amarr T2 ships due to their super-high explosive resistances.
Finally, please try and remember the big picture. Explosive crystals won't make you able to kill 4 minmatar ships easier, it will let you kill virtually everything easier.
maybe amarr shouldnt get explosive, maybe they should. one thing is sure though that even though conflag got 50/50 EM/Thermal it is totally useless against vagabonds that can go over 3k/sec and have over 90%+ EM and Thermal resist. maybe we should nerf the vagabond instead seeing as it is way to fast or have way to much resist at the same time.
personally id be happy with getting a useful bonus to the ships instead of a wasted on and to have the guns sorted for fittings by either a grid increase on the ships or by a grid reduction on the amarr guns. also a swap of thermal to primary dmg on crystals would be very welcomed.
a laser beam that hits a surface produces alot of heat and not electromagnetic interference wich is what EM is.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.28 23:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Commander Thrawn Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 28/06/2006 22:48:46
Originally by: Sarmaul
Finally, please try and remember the big picture. Explosive crystals won't make you able to kill 4 minmatar ships easier, it will let you kill virtually everything easier.
as apposed to not being able to kill anything easier AKA: em dmg
ya id like that. it doesn' have to be a crystal that does mad dmg, just a crystal that gives us the option
Anything not running an EANM tank (i.e. everything besides a couple of battleships) will have resistances that are virtually the same, meaning the type of damage you do isn't important, it's how much damage in total you do.
dmg from amarr guns was balanced to how resists worked before the EANM2 tanks with the compensation skills came about together with the introduction of the dmg control units.
now amarr's main DMG EM is the most resisted one compared to what it was before those modules/skills was introduced. it was balanced dmg/res before now it isnt.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.29 10:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: eLLioTT wave can the non amarr supporters please stop posting in this thread, you arent helping our cause
thx
If you can't defend your arguments for getting Amarr boosted then please stop posting, you aren't helping your own cause.
Last time I checked this was a "discussion forum", not a "one-sided discussion forum".
well you arent discussing atm, you are just trolling.
and yes ppl used to have 3 active hardeners before EANM2 came along and none of those were EM hardeners so now with EANM2 tanks you get your others up to the same level they were with 3 active hardeners and you get a boost of your EM resistance wich breaks the dmg balance that amarr had. i think someone calculated it earlier and the relative increase in EM resistance were 80% higher then what you had before.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.29 11:04:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: eLLioTT wave can the non amarr supporters please stop posting in this thread, you arent helping our cause
thx
If you can't defend your arguments for getting Amarr boosted then please stop posting, you aren't helping your own cause.
Last time I checked this was a "discussion forum", not a "one-sided discussion forum".
well you arent discussing atm, you are just trolling.
and yes ppl used to have 3 active hardeners before EANM2 came along and none of those were EM hardeners so now with EANM2 tanks you get your others up to the same level they were with 3 active hardeners and you get a boost of your EM resistance wich breaks the dmg balance that amarr had. i think someone calculated it earlier and the relative increase in EM resistance were 80% higher then what you had before.
Refuting and debating the points being raised isn't trolling.
EM resistances with 3xEANM tanks have gone up to 80%, which is an increase of 50% (i.e. one active t1 hardener), and have gone up to just over 80% if you add another damage control (which works out as about 1 T2 hardener).
now you arent reading at all just rambling on harping the same thing, read it again abit closer and with more attantion.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.29 11:28:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sarmaul
You clearly state that the relative increase in EM resistance was 80% higher than it was before. If you were actually suggesting was that the average EM armour resistance is 80% - higher than before, then I suggest you try typing it instead of flaming people for your mistakes.
again you are not reading properly, i stated that there was a "relative" increase of 80% resist with a EANM2 tank on EM resist while the other dmg types have stayed about the same on a EANM2 tank as they were with the old style Kin/Exp/Therm active hardener tank to wich the amarr dmg output where balanced. ppl only fitted a EM active hardener when they were 100% sure they would meet 7 heatsink gankageddons. and today even ravens use the EANM2 tanks in pvp and fill their mids with ECM.
and no its not like amarr got anything close to add one hardener and be untouchable by minmatars like you can do in a vagabond and cruise around at over 3k/sec at the same time.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.30 17:13:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Deathbarrage i think the idea is, amarr have nothing they're better at then other races, except for mining, and we should have some benefit of our backstory roles like uber tank/dmg. We have the penalties (sensor strength, sensitive to TD) but we don't have the benefits
not even mining since the mining barges came.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.07.01 16:29:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Xendie on 01/07/2006 16:29:28
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Originally by: Sarmaul
Compare pulses to blasters and autocannons please.
To be the devils advocate here I have to say that everytime someone mentiones the damage output of other races theres always some smart type that posts a graph of tach geddon vs other non Amarr ships and say
'look here you win amarr is the uber'
That's because the tach-geddon, a long-range setup, kicks out more damage than most close-range setups (autopest and siege-raven sping to mind). The fact that people want long-range range, close-range damage and a full tank shows you how little grasp they have of game mechanics and balance.
once again you seem to have missed reading and understood this thread. a apoc with 8*800mm autocannons and 2 dmg mods still does more dmg and does more dmg types and tanks better then a megapulse apoc with equal setup - the dmg mods as there has to be 2 fitting mods instead to fit megapulses over 800's and it is forced to carry 70mill in crystals to do less dmg and tank less then a 800mm AC apoc.
how is that right or even balanced, the apoc has nothing speaking for itself, it cant do enough dmg, it cant tank enough, not enough mids to do lots of EW. so what is it good for?
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.07.01 22:00:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nifel Edited by: Nifel on 01/07/2006 17:32:57
Originally by: Xendie once again you seem to have missed reading and understood this thread. a apoc with 8*800mm autocannons and 2 dmg mods still does more dmg and does more dmg types and tanks better then a megapulse apoc with equal setup - the dmg mods as there has to be 2 fitting mods instead to fit megapulses over 800's and it is forced to carry 70mill in crystals to do less dmg and tank less then a 800mm AC apoc.
how is that right or even balanced, the apoc has nothing speaking for itself, it cant do enough dmg, it cant tank enough, not enough mids to do lots of EW. so what is it good for?
Base damage with max skills and no fittings for 800mm AC T2: 0.901097 damage modifer per second Base damage with max skills and no fittings for MPII: 1.0033312
Take into account that you fight in falloff with acs most of the time, while using a really slow boat and lasers have higher damage + way better optimal which suits the amarr boats, and I have absolutely no clue what you're on about.
did you take into account the 2 dmg mods you can fit on the AC-Apoc that you cant fit on the megapulse-Apoc?
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.07.02 01:20:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Nifel
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Nifel Edited by: Nifel on 01/07/2006 17:32:57
Originally by: Xendie once again you seem to have missed reading and understood this thread. a apoc with 8*800mm autocannons and 2 dmg mods still does more dmg and does more dmg types and tanks better then a megapulse apoc with equal setup - the dmg mods as there has to be 2 fitting mods instead to fit megapulses over 800's and it is forced to carry 70mill in crystals to do less dmg and tank less then a 800mm AC apoc.
how is that right or even balanced, the apoc has nothing speaking for itself, it cant do enough dmg, it cant tank enough, not enough mids to do lots of EW. so what is it good for?
Base damage with max skills and no fittings for 800mm AC T2: 0.901097 damage modifer per second Base damage with max skills and no fittings for MPII: 1.0033312
Take into account that you fight in falloff with acs most of the time, while using a really slow boat and lasers have higher damage + way better optimal which suits the amarr boats, and I have absolutely no clue what you're on about.
did you take into account the 2 dmg mods you can fit on the AC-Apoc that you cant fit on the megapulse-Apoc?
No since you said equal fittings. I would however like to point out that I then don't understand why you're whining about that since it gives amarr ships the option of being versatile. Go full gank with lasers or go full tank with projectiles/missiles.
And I'm far too tired of this topic to go do setups. Why don't you post the setups you had in mind when you wrote about this great injustice?
with equal fittings there is room for 2 dmg mods on the AC apoc where the pulse apoc needs 2 engineering mods instead, hence why it does more dmg. but as i guessed you didnt want to incorporate that in your nifty calculation as it would be a totally another set of numbers.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.07.02 10:42:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Nifel
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Nifel
No since you said equal fittings. I would however like to point out that I then don't understand why you're whining about that since it gives amarr ships the option of being versatile. Go full gank with lasers or go full tank with projectiles/missiles.
And I'm far too tired of this topic to go do setups. Why don't you post the setups you had in mind when you wrote about this great injustice?
with equal fittings there is room for 2 dmg mods on the AC apoc where the pulse apoc needs 2 engineering mods instead, hence why it does more dmg. but as i guessed you didnt want to incorporate that in your nifty calculation as it would be a totally another set of numbers.
There... I was nice enough to fatten the parts where I explained why I didn't. Don't take it out on me when what you write misleads other people. And it's not me that should post setups. It's you that wants to boost amarr, so it's you that needs to do that.
and you seem to fail the obvious advantages of using AC on the apoc. as in 2 lowslots less used for engineering mods that will be used for damage mods instead wich makes the dmg output higher with similar fittings on the rest of the ship, dual rep, EAMN2 tank, Cap injector, web, scram. was that part so hard to understand or did you only want to try and talk down the fact that it actually does more dmg and can do more dmg types in the process?. seems to me that you are only posting here and diluting the thread with your nerf amarr sentiments. your calculation didnt reflect the actual AC apoc so it was wrong.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.07.02 11:27:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 02/07/2006 11:03:59
Originally by: Xendie with equal fittings there is room for 2 dmg mods on the AC apoc where the pulse apoc needs 2 engineering mods instead, hence why it does more dmg.
To repeat myself:
You do not need 2 engineering mods on the apoc for pulses.
You need 1 RCU2. And *only* if you want to use a dual LAR2 setup. Seriously, Xendie, actually try out a setup before you are posting crap.
i dunno about you but i need 2 engineering mods to fit 8*megapulse2 and a dual rep tank with a cap injector, not needed with 8*800mm ACs.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.07.02 11:29:00 -
[58]
Originally by: BirdBleed
Originally by: Nifel Edited by: Nifel on 01/07/2006 17:32:57
Base damage with max skills and no fittings for 800mm AC T2: 0.901097 damage modifer per second Base damage with max skills and no fittings for MPII: 1.0033312
Take into account that you fight in falloff with acs most of the time, while using a really slow boat and lasers have higher damage + way better optimal which suits the amarr boats, and I have absolutely no clue what you're on about.
do those factor in ship bonuses ?
xendie dunno what you are on about but u are doing amarr no favours :P
all that needs to be changed is
***EAMNs need EM resist removed/reduced, likewise for invul and explosive ***APOC needs cap bonus changed to resist bonus ***retri needs mid slot and minus useless hi slot ***t2 crystals that have less shots but are eaiser to make (20 mil in crystals is more reasonable than 60) ***OMEN/ZEALOT need 5th turret slot (this will bring both ships max DPS on par with other hacs/t1 cruisers max DPS) ***lazer cap bonus needs to be changed from 10% per lvl to 12.5% per lvl ***khanid ships need rework ... see sarmauls thread :)
do the minny/gallante whiners have any problems ? or are these changes too much to ask ?
to start with you are quoting a calculation that isnt calculated in the right perspective, its missing 2dmg mods for the AC's other then that i agree with the changes you listed.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.07.19 02:20:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth Aramendel is right cause I like chinese girls
lol and can we let this thread die now? it is obvious that Tuxford or CCP wont do anything to help the amarr players anyway.
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.28 11:13:00 -
[60]
minmatar got the perfect long range alpha strike fleet battleship full rack of 1400's, 4 SB2, 2 tracking comps, 1 med rep, 2 tracking enhancers and 3 gyro2's that should fit nicely with the stats that are out so far. and it will be a mean tanker that can shoot and tank at the same time
the rohk will be a 200k+ sniper with tech1 gear, cheap in fittings and usage, awesome with tech2 gear it will propably pretty nasty at close range also. and yes it will be able to shoot and tank at the same time
gallente will get the nastiest blasterboat ever with its higher speed and lower inertia it will be ontop of anyone really fast and then eat them up. havent seen the stats on this one but i assume it will be able to shoot and tank at the same time.
then we have the Tier1 and Tier2 BS also where most can shoot and tank at the same time. ships that come to mind is megathron, raven, domi, phoon, tempest, apoc with pitiful dmg, geddon with smallest large guns.
and then the amarr get the abbadon wich cant shoot and tank at the same time. the maelstrom will be able to tank better then the abbadon and shoot at the same time. im pretty sure that any other ship then amarr's will be able to do that. with the cap usage at 100% on amarr gun on that ship it will need 2 cap injectors to have a chance of staying alive. ah yes i forgot to mention that the stats also says that the abbadon will have the smallest cargobay also so it cant carry all the cap boosters it would actually need. with this configuration every abbadon pilot will need someone in a bestower to follow him around and hand him cap boosters every 2min. to bad that the bestower isnt bulletproof wich will get him killed right off the bat and then leaving the abbadon without cap boosters anyway.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.08.04 10:39:00 -
[61]
with EAMN2+DCU everyone who used to have 60% EM resist now has 80% EM resist.
that is a decrease of 50% effective dmg by energy weapons wich is amarr's main weapon type.
that is the main problem. how would everyone else think if their dmg got nerfed by 50%.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.08.06 10:49:00 -
[62]
screw amarr, train for another races ships instead as tuxford and CCP apparently has it in for anyone flying amarr ships.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.08.11 06:11:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Zaethiel
Originally by: Krulla
Originally by: Zaethiel So what do you suggest be done to fix the imbalance with Amarr?
Nerf EANMII and Amarr are fine.
The whole reason i used the NPCs as an example was to show you EANMII arent the problem. The Tyrant has an abnormaly low resistance EM/Therm on its armor. Lasers don't do as much as they should against its armor. The only reason people feel EANM are the problem is because people use them to boost 3/4 of the resists but incidently boost EM at the same time, they effect the damage yes, but its not the main problem they are just a small part of it.
can i have some of that minnie stuff you are smoking?
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.11 20:33:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/08/2006 14:46:55 I had originally posted about the EANMII + DC hidden nerf to amarr weeks before this thread. If I remember correctly, I got labled as a clown until other Amarr pilots started to notice the same thing recently.
Now, first of all, EANMII's should not be nerfed - Why? Just make the compensation skill boost active hardners from 55% to 65-70%. That way people will go back to Active hardners and suffer the gimpage in damage output that Amarr pilots are used to.
Secondly, if Compensation skills are not boosted, then there is one small change that simple to implement and will cut down the whines.
Give lasers perfect tracking. (This is different from saying Guarenteed hit, read below)
Yes, for a long time now people say "How can a laser miss, Projectiles should miss! L0lzEr!". Why dont we fix this so that amarr have perfect tracking, and only miss due to signature size vs turret resoultion. I for one, would accept perfect tracking in exchange for the gimped damage output.
With that said, all is forgiven if the Abaddon is a Missile or Drone boat!
now theres a fun idea.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.15 15:51:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Xendie on 15/08/2006 15:51:25
Originally by: Lickity Split i think most people posting keeping this thread going just want a response from devs or anyone at ccp. well you may ask "what would that do"? well if the devs say there is nothing wrong then the people that have spent a year + in specialzation could quit wasting time with amarr and switch. yeah there will be some *****ing but hey that is ok. well lets say devs say there is a problem and it is going to be looked into. that would give the people that have spent that year doing amarr hope. then anti amarr people will *****, and to would be ok.
1. the 2nd amarr bonus is crap. 10% to make guns useable is not a bonus. 2. ccp wants fights to take longer. so energized adaptive nanos are not going to be nerfed. 3. amarr have basically no capiblity of ew, so they need to be the hardest to jam. 4. the small and med laser guns are way to hard to fit. unless you have max skills you cannot fit a omen almost at all with 4 guns. similar issues with frigs. 5. they are also to easy to defend against due to the lack of damage variety. 6. a amarr ship or any other ship should not be better with another races guns on it. example autocannons on maller and apoc.
all those pearls of wisdom has gone totally by the responsible ones at CCP in favour of their own favoured ship they use. the balancing is not balancing at all but just personal preference of the person current in charge of balancing so his preferred race will perform better.
it should be quite obvious as when a thread asking for dev responses about caldari or gallente ships get "dev" input after a few posts listing what they are going to improve for them. yet amarr goes 60+ pages now and multiple threads about similar things about amarr gets totally ignored.
no communication is bad and has always been bad. either they need to fezz up and say that they will fix it and bring up what their plan of action will be or just say that amarr is fine so ppl can stop training for amarr ships and weapons any further or cancel their accounts.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.16 15:47:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
So why dont you give us a solution insted of not saying anything constructive?
propably because nifel being bob and all is to uber to read or understand what this thread is about since its not about the raven or tempest or his moms car not being a ferrari.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.20 07:46:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Samuel Vimes At one point they did say that they were looking into the fitting requirements for medium beams, although I do believe that was some years ago now.......
yeah that one has stuck in there for awhile and has still been ignored.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.23 12:41:00 -
[68]
nomatter what something needs to be done.
some kind of fix has to be thought out to fix the amarr race.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.24 11:12:00 -
[69]
was fitting out a crusader this morning. ended up repackaging it and fitted out a crow and a ranis instead i have lots of small beams in my hangar but nothing that they will fit on.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Hunter Killers
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Posted - 2006.09.02 11:29:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Andreask14 Edited by: Andreask14 on 02/09/2006 10:49:23 I realized something.
I realized taht it only takes a weak to train for each race¦s BS and another few days to train all its basic weapon systems.
Voila, if i cut that one week off my Amarr BS lvl 5 training i will be abelt o fly a raven with torps and never need to complain again.
IN short: I gave in to the dark side.
i sold my amarr spec character, no point in having it when this character with 10mill less skillpoints can do everything that one could or better, mostly better.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Hunter Killers
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Posted - 2006.09.21 03:31:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Azaries Even if the damage types were just switched from primary EM to primary Thermal this would be a start.
the em/thermal swap will help some but im afraid that it wont be enough to put amarr on par with the other races.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Hunter Killers
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Posted - 2006.09.21 13:27:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Alekzander Edited by: Alekzander on 21/09/2006 04:10:59 Would this thread PLEASE JUST DIE. How can you Amarr generate this much garbage? Your putting the minmatar to shame for jeebus sakes. I should pod malkan for making this thread 4 months ago.
maybe it is because there is a imbalance.
the minmatars ships are working very nice so i dont know why you would pull them into the discussion.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.27 20:44:00 -
[73]
Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 27/09/2006 19:05:09
Originally by: Godar Marak
Originally by: The ArchWarder
Now with the Nos nerf on the horizion,the pilgrim / curse, the only class of ship that amarr are the best at is now also at risk of becoming obsolete.
Why havent anyone questioned Tuxford competance? I mean, what the HELL is he doing?
Just a question ... with the nerf on NOS I can assume that ALL the Amarr ships except the Pilgrim and the Curse will benefict from that ... arent this good news ?
you are propably assuming to much. the pilgrim/curse/arbitrator is the best line of amarr ships and the only ships that tuxford havent broken yet. if it is even remotely possible to break those ships he most certainly will manage to do it because it is the tuxford way to break amarr ships.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.30 08:49:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Siro
Originally by: Complacency's Bane Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 29/09/2006 23:05:02 Battleship lasers are fine, the only problem with amarr there is how good EW is and how few midslots amarr battleships have.
Battleship lasers are not fine when projectiles do as much damage on the same ship for no cap. The only reason to not fit projectiles over lasers (or even hybrids over lasers) is lack of training.
exactly. the advantages is that you can fit 8*800mm AC's and 2 dmg mods +tank on a apoc and do as much dmg as the apoc with megapulses+2engineering mods that is needed to fit it +tank and use less cap and get different dmg types that doesnt royally suck on armor while using the bonus cap that doesnt gets expended while shooting to tank better.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.30 08:51:00 -
[75]
and you dont need to pack the equivilent of 16k shots to go out and shoot some i dunno what the tech2 crystals cost today since i havent bought any in a long while now but im sure its still pretty expensive.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.01 01:07:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Complacency's Bane
Originally by: Siro
Originally by: Complacency's Bane Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 29/09/2006 23:05:02 Battleship lasers are fine, the only problem with amarr there is how good EW is and how few midslots amarr battleships have.
Battleship lasers are not fine when projectiles do as much damage on the same ship for no cap. The only reason to not fit projectiles over lasers (or even hybrids over lasers) is lack of training.
Youre going to get the same damage from projectiles on an arma as you will from lasers?
I'm very interested in your 1300 DpS projectile arma setup.
Oh, right - this is one of those 'not true at all' kind of lies which you make up to support your incorrect point. Got it.
if yoiu read anything of this thread you would know that the armageddon isnt the only amarr BS, infact the armageddon and the arbitrator is the only tech1 ships that are decent. try setting up a apoc with the 8 AC's and 2dmg mods and you will see. and you can tank better then also.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.01 02:41:00 -
[77]
i agree that minmatar should have more agile BS then they have now, maybe 10% more agile and faster amarr should have easier fittings so the lowslot advantage isnt taken up by engineering mods making the lowslot advantage moot. amarr should also get the weapon energy bonus built in on every amarr ship and another bonus be used as second bonus. furthermore to make amarr the tankers why not make them have 5-7,5% more armor per level as bonus instead as second bonus, that would fit better with the amarr way as tankers. and swap EM/Thermal on the crystals
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.01 22:50:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Von Munhausen
Originally by: Pesadel0
QFT this thread really needs to be locked down.
Agree and i think there is only one way. Lets see a dev blog for amarr. This will kill the tread.
propably would. and some kind of "looking into/fixing" statement with some info would definetly close this thread i think. but if it is a statement that "all is fine" it wont die at all. just a bunch of amarr accounts that will be canceled then propably.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.02 21:57:00 -
[79]
one solution to the crystal cost problem would be to have crystals that burn out after 1shot and thus making it use 1 shot/crystal. and during a patch just change all tech2 crystals to 1000rounds -the dmg on the crystals and make the BP's do 5k runs like all other tech2 ammo BP's
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.02 22:43:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Horza Otho The last 80 pages in this thread has been full of Amarr retards pulling every excuse out of their hat to whine about another race. This thread should have been locked long ago on account of the idiocy being spilled out onto other threads.
to start with why are you even bothering if you have nothing constructive to add? personal insults to whoever you was directing your comment at is still not allowed on these forums and trolling is not either. go train your forum f00 on the wow forums instead.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.03 03:11:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Lazy8s Edited by: Lazy8s on 02/10/2006 23:25:23
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Murukan K nub your first poitn is a big **** no cause that trivializes minmatar ammo. When i can reload my guns in one second and have my ammo take very little cargo space then maybe.
Actually the reload time is included in the gun stats. For example compare a heavy beam + 50% cap bonus vs a 250mm rail + 25% damage bonus and the rail does 7% more base damage/time. Now calculate this for a 40 shots + 10 sec reload period and it does only 2% more damage. Both guns have about the same cap/sec drain (with the laser one being slightly higher).
And while needing no real ammo is a (logistic) advantage (ratting in an AC cyclone these days, so I know about this) this advantage on the t1 lvl is quite easily balanced by the situation on the t2 lvl. 1 t2 crystal is holds on average for 1000 shots. 1000 tremor L costs in jita right now 600k. 1 aurora L 1900k. Also, while you'll be just fine with 1k-2k tremor for PvP you'll need 1 crystal for every laser. So for longrange ammo you have to take about 1 mil worth with you with a tempest while on an apoc you have to carry 15 mil in ammo with you.
Just a quick comment I'm sure I will get flammed for. Everyone says the amarrs get screwed because of crystal price. Look at caldari, they pay 10mil+ PER siege launcher. T2 drones are a couple mil a piece and gallente carry how many per ship? T2 425mm rails by me are 15-18mil each while T2 tachs (most expensive I could find out here) are only5mil each.
Sure the ammo may be more but in the end it works out about the same or less. No T2 battleship is cheap to lose and amarr definately is not more expensive, people just complain because the ammo is alot more. Now, if all you do is mission/rat with T2 ammo this hurts but since people know T2 ammo on missions or for ratting is a waste of money we can assume it's used for pvp and therefore it all costs about the same.
and what drives down demand? and what drives up demand?
the less ppl that use a certain gun the cheaper it gets basically. now go wonder again if your post was a foot in your mouth.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.07 10:35:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Hijara I think amarr could use a bonus to make our tanks better. If we becoem the ultimate tankers, that gives us an edge we don't have atm. lazers are supposed to eat cap, the prolem is that we waste a bonus, or 2 JUST making our guns viable, before mods or anything. If amarrian ships had just HIGHER cap to begin with, might that work? Overall however, amarr are pretty ok to me. Maybe no the Uber ship of the month/patch, but not useless.
something needs to be done about it sooner or later anyway. less and less ppl choose to train up the amarr skilltree from start.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.07 19:41:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Nir Edited by: Nir on 07/10/2006 17:49:19
Originally by: Cosmo Raata 90% of those still training amarr instead of switching aren't doing it because they think amarr is fine, they do it with Faith that CCP will see the light.
Actually tons and tons of people come into the world of EVE without knowing anything about ship balance, hence you will always see at least a certain amount of people in Amarr ships of all sizes. Ignorance is bliss, after all.. I think this is where the majority of Amarr flyers come from.
I think a better gauge of the Amarr situation would be to look for veterans with Amarr skills, that still fly their Amarr ships in PvP today. Not just those who jumped the bandwagon when the Armageddon was FOTM for about 6 months. I see more Amarr characters cross training to Bthons and Dominix than any other race..
the vets that you see in amarr ships basically all fly geddons/curse/pilgrims/absolutions also, all ships that does work as the rest of amarr's ships indeed isnt working properly
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.07 22:22:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Cosmo Raata
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Nir Edited by: Nir on 07/10/2006 17:49:19
Originally by: Cosmo Raata 90% of those still training amarr instead of switching aren't doing it because they think amarr is fine, they do it with Faith that CCP will see the light.
Actually tons and tons of people come into the world of EVE without knowing anything about ship balance, hence you will always see at least a certain amount of people in Amarr ships of all sizes. Ignorance is bliss, after all.. I think this is where the majority of Amarr flyers come from.
I think a better gauge of the Amarr situation would be to look for veterans with Amarr skills, that still fly their Amarr ships in PvP today. Not just those who jumped the bandwagon when the Armageddon was FOTM for about 6 months. I see more Amarr characters cross training to Bthons and Dominix than any other race..
the vets that you see in amarr ships basically all fly geddons/curse/pilgrims/absolutions also, all ships that does work as the rest of amarr's ships indeed isnt working properly
You hit the nail on the head. I fly exactly those ships and those ships only. I did use the malediction once this year, but mostly just for getting on killmails with fast lock and a scram.
i used to use the crusader as a expensive slightly faster shuttle but thats about it.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.09 18:12:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Originally by: Cosmo Raata When i speak of "We" I'm talking about all the demands from Amarr pilots, even the ridiculous ones. Honestly the ideas that I've posted are very reasonable. Lets see, Do you really think CCP is nerfing webs, dampenders, tracking disrupters, ECCM's, Scrams, Cap Boosters, Afterburners, MWD's and Target Painters? You gave one example of a med slot being possibly nerfed....which is ECM, Nos is High. So please, do everyone a favor and delete your very uninformed alt post.
WTF are you talking about?
I mention the two modules that are confirmed to be looked at towards reducing there effect and "whatever changes happen in future" meaning after ECM/NOS we'll see what everyone whines about and gets nerfed... I never said anywhere that web, tp, ab ect are getting nerfed. How is that uninformed?
I never said mid slots so why make a point about the only mid slot I mentioned being ECM? Because Amarr have low number of mids? I guess that means all mids are for reducing dps/tanks, oh look shield tanking.... so with Amarr being kings of gank/tank any shild tankers who can't reduce the dps of amarr are screwed.
And another great arguement of "uninformed" to add to your "your biased". Please make your posts clearer and not just random ranting with put downs instead of real points ignoring the main points of my posts.
you are even more "misinformed" then you think. the only ships that has a good use of NOS is the curse and the pilgrims. we are not asking for any boost of those, infact we will get a nerf to those modules. making 2 of the 4 usable amarr ships worse then they are now.
what do we have left?, yeah the geddon i dont think anybody claimed that the geddon needed a huge boost of any kind. and the geddon only has 3 mids and lower sensor strenght then a merlin
the apoc, maller, prophecy all function a whole lot better in tanking with minmatar guns while doing same dmg as with amarr guns, go figure the thought from the "balancing" team there.
btw, isnt amarr missing a frigate also? and when will amarr specialized players be able to use the small beams on frigates?, fittings for the medium beams that are small beams are way to big to be used on any frigate sized ship.
and on and on and on and on and on.... you get the picture.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.10 14:10:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Jazz Bo
Originally by: Stephar
You completely missed his point. He said that blasters outdamage lasers, but lasers have a "built in damage bonus." It would appear that blasters have a built in damage bonus as well. So why do lasers use over twice the cap of blasters if they both have built in damage bonuses?
I agree that blasters should outdamage lasers... but lasers use twice the cap. If laser cap use was cut by 50%, blasters would still outdamage lasers as well as consume less cap.
1. Blasters have vastly inferior range 2. if you want a valid comparison, try Ion Blasters vs. Mega Pulse. Neutrons are all but impossible to fit (considering you can't undock without a MWD and Cap Injector) 3. If you factor in the -50% cap use from the amarr ship skill, blasters only use a bit less cap. A Blasterthron only has a little over 4k cap, and runs out of it faster than you can say "800 Cap Charge".
what are you smoking Jazz? mega pulses are the biggest close range gun for amarr, neutrons are the biggest for gallente. why on earth would you measure amarrs biggest vs gallentes medium? you trying to bend numbers and stats now?
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.10 15:03:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 10/10/2006 14:43:54 Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 10/10/2006 14:42:14
Originally by: Proxay
Originally by: Mila Prestoc Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 10/10/2006 14:28:14 Mega with T2 Neutrons using: Null = 469 dps with about 12km range, Void = 629 dps with about 4km range.
... that all????
Just turret comparison. No drones or damage mods as both effect each ship the same.
Both can fit 5x heavy drones. They have same number of lows so posibilities are the same for damage mods, both gain the same %age increase from damage mods.
Edit: for reference max skills and 5x T2 heavy thermal drones (ogres) give an extra: 317dps.
I'll add this to my orginal dps post.
the armageddon can fit 5 heavies yes but the thread isnt about the only usable amarr battleship. measure the amarr tier2 vs the gallente tier2.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.11 11:30:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Aramendel
So, with the first ship bonus:
Tach II DPS w/Multifreq = 20.74 (5.4 / 12.5 * 48) 425mm Rail II w/Anitmatter = 20.71 (3.3 / 9.56 * 48 * 1.25) 1400 II w/EMP = 17.13 (6.9 / 23.63 * 44 / 0.75)
So, yes, taychons are the highest dps longrange weapon. By 0.1% more than a 425 rail. And only in BASE damage. The majority of a ships HP is nowadays in armor.
how very exactly to the point.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.12 09:46:00 -
[89]
well it is a discussion forum and as such people including myself throw ideas around for input and we also spot flaws and bonuses in other peoples ideas and discuss them. it doesnt make either you or me or anyone else more or less lunatic. if you do so maybe you need proffessional help because you are reading way to much into the discussions.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.12 10:52:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Dragy
Originally by: Nyxus
Originally by: Dragy would be really unfair cause all t2 ammo types have only 2 dmg types, not 3
Then how about a T1 version. Or even a T2 version that had less base damage than the others.
Expl 20 Therm 16
Even that would be preferable even if it was a close range ammo only, just as EMP is close range only.
Nyxus
Still would be unfair. Energy turrets are more damaging and have bigger range. It doesn't matter that apoc deals more dps with ac's then with energy turrets ... cause it's not a ship that is meant for damage, but for tanking ! *cough* used in missions often *cough*. And look at minny race if you ever get that crystal ... their ammo usage is so high that they run out of it before end of a battle, you use cap for weapons, but don't need to care about ammo cause there is none. This is not a solution. If you get this crystal ac's should be boosted (less ammo usage, more dps).
what do you mean??? "dont need to care about ammo" ??? so toting around with equivilent of 16k ammo valued 60-70mill everytime nomatter how short or long the fight is doesnt matter? any other race can grab a few hundred ammo and not loose 70mill in ammo value alone if they get popped. amarr pilots got the worst tanking BS, they dont have the best dmg dealer, they have the easiest to jam, they have to carry a extra BS in ammo value. when will balance come?
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.12 13:57:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Dragy what you've been smoking ? 1) the t2 crystal prices are irrelevant here. it's caused by t2 market, not that amarr suck 2) in many battles minmatar just dont have enough ammo ... due to too big ammo usage, small cargohold and if you decide to fit 800 cap boosters (which is a must) you really can't pick your damage type. 3) now was talking mostly about t1 ammo. you think that you have the worst tanking bs ? think again. compare tempests, apocs and megathrons tank.
if you want to compete anywhere near other BS and kill any you will need all dmg you can dish out with a amarr ship due to the huge EM boost resist on armor due to EAMN2+DCU tanks. and any ship with 5 lowslots to dedicate to tanking can have as good a tank as a apoc. 2*LARII+2*EAMN2+DCU
all other races still do as much dmg to armor as before EAMN2+DCU tanks except Amarr since the EAMN2+DCU Tanks now boosts armor up to same levels as the other resists. and amarr needs more engineering mods to fit their guns+tank then other races.
now i ask you "what the heck are you smoking?"
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.13 15:20:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow 5 Months later and you lot are still at it?
Give up, train Minmatar. Its what i did.
working on gallente to carriers now but that doesnt mean i wont moan about amarr as much as i can until they either let me respec all my amarr skillpoints or fire tuxford or if he by any divine intervention would happen to actually fix amarr.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.14 14:31:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: Hakera
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
did you know the Apoc needs an RCU II even if you switch down to Mega Beam IIs? Can only fit 7 of those too. Thats without fitting an MWD, btw.
but then the apoc have the low slots for that :) Ive always been of the opinion that tachyons are an exception and that mega beams are more comparible myself anyway to the other turrets.
The Mega has 7 lows aswell you know. And more CPU, last i checked.
I long thought that Tachyons were a higher class aswell, and it was true like 2 years ago. Back when Amarr where Flavour of the Month, and every Amarr gun rocked. Nowadays, theyre just a different class when it comes to fitting.
Even if we assume them to be still a higher class, my point stands for Mega Beam IIs.
Mega Beam IIs have an optimal of 48km(16km), 425 IIs have 58km(24km). Falloff in brackets. Thats base, obviously. The difference becomes bigger with skills involved. Even Tachyon IIs have shorter optimal AND falloff then 425 IIs.
The times that Tachyons were of a higher class are, sadly, over.
And frankly, i disagree with the 'the apoc has the lowslots for it'. But thats more of an idea then anything. Every gun, ship and module has disadvantages in this game. Yet ship bonusses are always designed to make the disadvantage smaller. Essentially making every ship the same. The fact that an Apoc has more lowslots (it doesnt, btw) means it should be able to use those to fit modules to set it apart from the rest. Instead, you end up fitting modules to make it similar to the rest.
Boring.
precisely.
the so called lowslot advantage that could make amarr the uber tankers they could be is gone with the forced engineering mod fittings that others dont have to use. and the other does more dmg also while tanking as well.
amarr ships that have a "lowslot advantage" over other ships really cant use it.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.14 16:31:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 14/10/2006 16:14:18
This thread is really in need of locking and sending to the graveyard...
I have in fact read through the entirety (I want my Saturday back), the first 15 pages consisted of irrelevant arguments over the physics of lasers interacting with armour and DPS comparisons between AC Apocalypse and Megapulse Apocalypse (I'm quite dubious as to the effectiveness of the AC setup with no MWD...) using flawed setup comparisons (e.g. adding a second fitting module to the Megapulse setup when only one is necessary)
Around about page 40 there is some decent discussion, though I don't believe the impact of some of the proposed changes has been thought through (time and again in this game, subtle changes have been shown to be far more effective than sledge-hammer solutions), IÆll list some the 'sledgehammer solutions', that have zero chance of being implemented:
Explosive Crystals Nerfing EANM down to 15% Perfect tracking for lasers () Go back to the old stacking penalty () Make armour resistances uniform Take 20% off EM resistance Give lasers a 50% Cap reduction Give the Apocalypse a damage bonus
...reminds me of some of the crazy ideas that were being thrown around for Blasters (+20% damage and tracking anyone?)
Subtle changes are needed, and despite some of the brash statements here to the contrary, I'm certain things ARE being discussed by the developers.
Oh and finally, game balance! = balance for 1 vs. 1 scenario. It has been said time and again, Amarr Battleships in particular, are not 1 vs. 1 machines but rather small group/large fleet platforms. The Armageddon is no Blasterthron equivalent, nor should it be û the game would get pretty boring very quickly if every race was fundamentally the same.
Beyond that, the majority of the thread is mindless bumping (not allowed), flaming each other or Tuxford (not allowed), blatant trolling on both sides of the argument (not allowed), personal attacks (not allowed) and general spam.
And people wonder why Tuxford won't touch this thread with a barge pole...
once again ppl take the armageddon as a example wich is wrong. the geddon is one of the very few usable amarr ships out there, the one closest to being balanced towards other races battleships. im not saying that it is balanced but its not to far away.
and i know why tuxford dont touch this thread with a barge pole as you put it, he dont fly amarr.
there has been a number of items or suggestions spilled into this thread, lots of good stuff and lots of not so good stuff and also just stuff to get people to wind up their brains and start thinking about amarr inbalance. personally i think that it is great that everyone adds to this thread since the more things and ideas we discuss the more options the devs that actually read the forums have to throw around when they start thinking about fixing amarr, and yes they are definetly aware of this thread as it would be very hard for them to ignore a thread thats almost 100 pages long and ends up on the first page every day for the last 6months.
so what have we actually come up with in this thread by now?
some people said that explosive crystals is impossible?, i beg to differ as we have seen here on page 93. look at amarr's arch enemy the minmatar, phased plasma that have extreme amounts of thermal dmg that just happens to be amarr's weakest resists. the minmatars do however have insane resists to amarr's dmg types, ever tried shooting a minmatar tech2 ship with pulses when it has 1 EM hardener on?, takes a while.
as for people saying that amarr isnt designed to be balanced 1v1 agains other races BS, why are all the other races BS resonably balanced when compared to eachother?
lowslot advantage?, gone straight away as amarr need engineering mods to fit their most damaging guns wich still do less dmg then others.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.14 16:35:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/10/2006 16:20:35
They really should lock this thread. It was annoying at around 70 pages. Now its something I dont think anyone except the writers read anymore.
Im not saying Amarr is fine, but this thread wont change a thing. The Tempest needs a buff too, but I dont think that will ever happen.
perhaps it is annoying to some ppl and with good reason i hope. so the writers of this thread by your saying isnt allowed to share ideas and discuss?, what a odd phenomenon.
amarr isnt fine and if the thread dont change anything then i guess i will see you here many more times when we gets closer to 200 pages then.
and yes some minmatar ships need a fix also but you can go start a thread called minmatar if you want to discuss that.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.15 15:01:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: Pesadel0 Maller,apoc,recons,carriers,dreadnought the list can go on you know?
Please go on. The Maller is hardly as good as f.e. the Thorax or Rupture. The Apoc is pure ****, read the rest of the thread for the reasoning. Noone is whining about Recons. Same for Carrier. I could point out why the Revelation is the ****tiest Dread to have if youre up against an opponent that is willing to defend his POS, but really why bother? (Hint: Fly it before you comment on it.)
Originally by: Pesadel0 Well you can have the explosive ammo (i'am 30M sp in minmatar ships ) when they decrease your rof,tracking,and put some kind of ammunition to relod 20 seconds plus the need to use amunition, and on top off that a lousy optimal.
Sure. While your add it though, triple our Damage Mod, give us 4 types of damage, reduce the grid and CPU for our guns by about 50%, and triple our falloff aswell. Oh and give us a double damage bonus, ofcourse.
Originally by: Pesadel0 You ever flown other races BS?
Yea, youll find all of them are quite capable of closerange 1v1. Mega, Domi, Tempest, Raven. Weve just got the Geddon which is only decent in a gang because you cant tackle for ****.
Originally by: Pesadel0 Cry me a river mate try fiting a mega with the most damaging guns and tank...A tempest with 800 and a mean tank...
A deimos a munnin ..ohh S*** they cant all fit the most damaging guns without engineering mods ...
Please do read the rest of the thread. Particularly the 10 posts above yours. Were talking about longrange guns here. You want to know why this thread got derailed? Its because of all the Minnies being afraid that we might achieve balance again. Like, oh, you.
i couldnt have said it better myself, hats off for Elve
as for Pesadel0's insinuations that i have no clue on any ships i can with 100% certainty claim that he has not a single clue in the world. i have been flying all ships except minmatar elite frigates and capital ships on another character and on this one im highly specialized in caldari ships and small and medium minmatar ships. /me tosses a clue to Pesadel0
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:07:00 -
[97]
FIX AMARR!! this century pls.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.18 11:40:00 -
[98]
i used to fly amarr almost exclusively. not i fly caldari and gallente, go figure
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.19 07:26:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Grytok I allready posted this elsewhere, but I will do so here again.
Amarr-Ships are just fine, as long as you don't use Lasers
The best setup so far working on a Prophecy for example is to go with 250mm Rails. They need less powergrid and less capa, so you can set up a decent tank, not needing any powerups for the weapons. I've tried it out with same skills in Energy- and Hybrid-Weapons. As long as you don't have Insane skills like Advanced Weapon Upgrades LVL 5, you're not able to fit Heavy Beams to a Prophecy without at least one RCU, which would take a piece of your tanking-ability. And when you have those skills, then there is so much powergrid left, if you put on Rails instead of Lasers, that you can tank even more
Amarr need to be made even again, not uber, but even. Cut down on a bit the powergrid- and capacitor-needs for Lasers, so they can be fitted without nerfing the tank.
And at least I repeat my previous postings: Swap EM for Thermal damage. Lasers do damage due to heat and not due electro-magnetics. Where did you go to school to miss that one
what you are describing are one of the points of this thread. minmatar shouldnt be more effective with rails and they arent but some amarr ships work better with rails or projectiles.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.19 16:27:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Misanth
Fairly new player to EvE, pure Amarr so far.. and it saddens me alot but this is the conclusion I came to as well. Waiting to see more news about the new ships and while going there I'm just maxing drone skills and similar which I could make use of whichever race I use.
w00t Drones and blasters and rails and torps and everything but beams and pulses ftw
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.19 19:56:00 -
[101]
Originally by: ****c The proposed HP boost just made this thread 50% more relevant
If you thought lasers sucked against armour at the minute - just wait till after kali, you'll be able to go have dinner come back and still not be through 50% more armour :(
assuming you actually have the cap ofc
/sarcasm but on the plus side, the sac will have more grid and cpu \o/ yay /sarcasm
with the abbadon and without 8 accounts ferrying capboosters to you you will be dead before you get to the kitchen to get your coffe.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.19 19:58:00 -
[102]
Originally by: ****c
/sarcasm but on the plus side, the sac will have more grid and cpu \o/ yay /sarcasm
the sac "modification" is just a play for the gallery so he can say "look i did fix amarr" when he infact took one of the worst hacs and did alittle to it.
what about the rest of amarr issues Tuxford?
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.19 21:06:00 -
[103]
looks like he wants everyone to **** around in nos domi's with shedloads of ECM
tuxford is a **** that has no clue on the inner workings and interactions between the different races in this game. why on earth anyone would employ someone like him just to drive their customers away i cannot understand. because i doubt that CCP is intending to drive away their customers.
...or are they?
maybe seeing as they let that incompetent person still work for them.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.20 06:14:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Shugo Kazuma I dunno about anyone else, but shouldn't someone who's in charge of game balance play all 4 races?
Good thing I still have a bunch of generic all race skills left to train, or I would probably be hitting up some alternate racial ships myself.
i would guess that proper knowledge of the job and what makes the different races and ships tick would be a requirement, not so for tuxford he just wings it daily.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.20 17:41:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Warnings
And, ADD the SECOND damage on the radio lense !!! Why the amarr have only ONE damage on the long range lense ???
the gankageddons used Radio with megapulses and sat 60k out with 8 heatsinks and raped ppl. it wasnt balanced. the aproach CCP and especially tuxford has is to totally axe anything that needs balancing. he has no clue whatso ever on how to do small incremental tweaks at all.
so with the geddons like that they changed the radio crystal to EM only, they changed the range on megapulses, they implemented the stacking nerf. instead of tweaking away a imbalance they axed everything about the race. why? incompetence is the only reason i can think of.
now you know why i have no faith in him leaving the curses main weapon NOS usable on the curse after he has been fiddling with it.
tuxford is systematically making the game worse and worse for amarr players. he has himself stated that he has no clue whatsoever what makes amarr ships and weapons work. he is incompetent and would be fired if his superiors actually looked at the state of the game.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.22 09:43:00 -
[106]
Tuxfords compete knowledge about amarr is confined to the forums as by his own admission. does that sound like someone competent at his job?
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.22 10:36:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
Originally by: Xendie Tuxfords compete knowledge about amarr is confined to the forums as by his own admission. does that sound like someone competent at his job?
Are you his Boss at work to judge that ? No , then stfu . Just coz he doenst tailor the game to ppls whines doenst make him incompetent.
I agree that this post realy needs to die according to the person who stated the reasons above .
MODS plz Lock their oversized whine thread.
one can only assume that you are equally incompetent at forumwhoring in a proper manner as tuxford are incompetent at balancing the game.
as for being a whine thread, indeed it has been a whine thread of gigantic proportions but most whining has been done by people like you trying to keep the game inbalanced in favour of gallente and caldari specialized characters. we all see through your petty stalkings and tiresome and predictable trollings on these forums yazoul.
you need a proper hobby that you are good at since the forums really isnt your cup of tea.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.22 11:33:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
Originally by: Xendie
one can only assume that you are equally incompetent at forumwhoring in a proper manner as tuxford are incompetent at balancing the game.
as for being a whine thread, indeed it has been a whine thread of gigantic proportions but most whining has been done by people like you trying to keep the game inbalanced in favour of gallente and caldari specialized characters. we all see through your petty stalkings and tiresome and predictable trollings on these forums yazoul.
you need a proper hobby that you are good at since the forums really isnt your cup of tea.
-Keep insulting the devs , it will work awesoem for u when u get eventualy banned . -sicne you say its a whine thread then why u arguing in the first place. -Yes Tuxford takes his instructions from me and other caldari and gallanet biased players coz we just tell him to do so or prob coz i pay more than u do , read what ur saying ffs !!! -Stalking !!! Who are u ? Realy i have no idea who the heck r u ! -Plz more personal attacks so u can enjoy a nice long ban some day.
its not a personal attack, its a astute observation on your behaviour on these forums. you rarely if ever have anything to back up any claims you spout out. your favourite pasttime on these forums is to stalk welsh wizard and the rest of celest and smacktalk with little to no real content in your posts. you have shown that you are nothing better then a incompetent troll at these forums.
we are atleast trying to get people to open their eyes about the lack of skill that tuxford has at doing his job. he has publically let it be known that he knows nothing of how amarr ships and weapons work, he has publically admitted to ever have used a amarr ship. that amarr part is around 25% of the game wich he so conveniently ignored.
if you had a job wich i doubt you have you would be fired in a heartbeat if you refused to learn 25% of the job you have to know.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.22 11:35:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Godar Marak
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
-Plz more personal attacks
Funny part is that you blatantly deserve them.
You accuse others of getting personal yet here you are with your rude posting and 'wtf idiot cry babies/whiners' replies. Then whenever someone calls your bull**** you get on the defensive and acting all suprised why people think of you as a retard.
his trollings are so very transparent that he isnt worth the trouble. he is trying to aggrevate ppl so they get ****ed at him and then he petitions them for harassment and personal attacks.
his forum f00 is extremely poor.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.22 11:38:00 -
[110]
Originally by: eBail Jerbal The problem is easly fixed by mounting Projectiles on Ammar apocs but seriously we will be going back 2 years ago after the first laser nerf
btw congratulations on post #3000 in this thread
one solution for remedy with the EAMN2+DCU issue and the advertized idiotic 50% HP boost would be to roll back the pulse nerf, the radio nerf, the crystal nerf and the stacking nerf.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.22 11:53:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: eBail Jerbal The problem is easly fixed by mounting Projectiles on Ammar apocs but seriously we will be going back 2 years ago after the first laser nerf
btw congratulations on post #3000 in this thread
one solution for remedy with the EAMN2+DCU issue and the advertized idiotic 50% HP boost would be to roll back the pulse nerf, the radio nerf, the crystal nerf and the stacking nerf.
The bolded bit demonstrates exactly why people like yourself are not responsible for balancing this game but rather Tuxford is...
i think you fail to see the similarity in tuxfords sweeping changes with no clue to what i said.
the game would surely be way more balanced with those nerfs rolled back if the proposed HP boost comes in.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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