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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.08 17:21:00 -
[451]
Edited by: Aramendel on 08/06/2006 17:23:32
Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd The damage Definately Doesn't need changing. its an energy based weapon. theres no physical way to make a laser deal kinetic/explosive damage.
As Godar said, it's a game.
And even ignoring that, that argument is just silly from a RL science point of view because lasers are already the most "illogical" weapons in EvE. (a little science ahead, skip if annoyed by that)
----- Guess what? There is no physical way for lasers to do *anything* even resembling EM damage. For which you need electromagnetic fields, for which you need a strong electric current. Lasers do not carry electrons or have an electromagnetic field, they are as neutral as stuff can get. Nevermind that while EM fields can wreck electronics they can (in RL) not really damage anything physical (like armor or structure).
Also, in RL lasers can create explosions as small seconardy effects. If you vaporize something you will have a bit of superheated vapor occupying the same volume as it did a second ago in it's old solid form. Volume of something in vapor form >> volume of something in solid form, so it will expand. If there is something in the way (like: armor) it could be teared apart.
If lasers would be "realistic" they would do something around 20 thermal, 1 explosive and would be weapons with an optimal of 1 km and a falloff of about 100 km (a laser beam does not suddenly "stop" at 20 km, it would grow progressively weaker over range because it is loosing focus (slowly)). -----
In short: if you want to say "explosive/kinetic/whatever is not realistic" please explain first how this "EM damage" works with lasers or what stops them suddenly at range x.
That being said, I would rather have them fix the mechanics which make lasers weak than adding new damagetypes to them.
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zapp brainigan
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Posted - 2006.06.08 17:39:00 -
[452]
Malken for president |
Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.08 17:41:00 -
[453]
Originally by: Al Haquis
Originally by: Xendie Edited by: Xendie on 08/06/2006 12:03:18
and a tempest can get to 20x dmg modifier with arties while a apoc with tachs get what? 11-13?
You didnt get the mail about the apoc beeing the tanker while the geddon is the dmg ship.
But the main bonus of amarrian ships is that they dont eat through ammo like rabit dogs.
Trust me this is a huge bonus.
With love from Al Haquis.
then why does a tier1 BS like the Domi have as good tank as a apoc or even the raven have as good if not better tank then the apoc? supposed to tank my ***.
as for not chewing up ammo? if you loose your raven with a few hundred tech2 torps what in isk value do you loose counting th ammo?, a couple of mill? when you loose a apoc fitted with tech2 crystals you loose 16 tech2 crystals wich total ranges from around 3mill-4mill a pop wich makes it around 48mill to 64mill in just ammo losses if you had both gleam and aurora on your ship for all the guns. thats 48 to 64 million isk in just ammo ??????????? almost a spare Battleship ????? half a HAC ?????
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.08 17:42:00 -
[454]
Originally by: zapp brainigan Malken for president
w00t
Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Araxmas
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Posted - 2006.06.08 17:47:00 -
[455]
With regards to t2 crystals how many shots do you get per crystal 1k or so isnt it, so you cant compare it to a few t2 missiles when you compare that price it gets a bit better and maybe t2 crystals require more mins to bulid which would explain the increased cost, and dosent eveyone on these forums keep mentioning that you cant use cost as a balliancg factor?
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2006.06.08 17:48:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 08/06/2006 08:41:50 Letifer:
I hope you know that megapulse t2 with multi has optimal of 15km and it barely hits targets moving at 150m/s at this optimal (dont remember exact value - im not in game atm to check). If target gets a bit closer then you start to see *miss* *miss* *miss*.
And with 15km range getting that *bit* closer is... well - too easy. One MWD/2x AB boost from enemy ship and suddenly megapulses dont hit at all.
Also one more q: do you fly amarr ships? Want to be sure...
I mainly fly gallente, but I do fly armas with this character from time to time and have amarr bs and large engy 5. On my alt I fly only MP armageddons.
"it barely hits targets moving at 150m/s at this optimal"
You mean to tell me 94% accuracy at 15km against a bs with 150m/s transversal is "barely hitting." I think not. Now, at ~9.5km w/o a web neut. and MP will have the same ~86% accuracy. If you add in a 90% web, then at 10km, oh man, MPs have nearly 100% accuracy from there down to ~4km. Neuts on the other hand will have ~87% accuracy at 10km, with accuracy rising until it peaks at 4.5km (at which point MP hit % is still nearly identical). Don't try and tell me MPs can't track BS.
Let me restate: You want to put mega pulse back to how they were before their range was nerfed BECAUSE their range was too good for the damage and tracking they have AND THEN you want to boost their tracking? No. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2006.06.08 17:59:00 -
[457]
Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd
But It would most certainly be worth possibly ever so slightly increasing the damage or decreasing the cap usage when fitted.
Tach II on apoc with lvl 5 BS = 47.5 cap every 12.5 seconds = 3.8 cap/s. 425mm Rail II on Mega = 30 cap every 9.56 seconds = 3.14 cap/s.
MPII on apoc with lvl 5 BS = 20 cap every 7.88 seconds = 2.54 cap/s. Neutron II on Mega = 18.2 cap every 7.88 seconds = 2.31 cap/s.
Energy turrets are supposed to use more cap, so i feel that cap usage on tachs is fine (assuming tachs get their small damage increase Tux has proposed) and 10% more cap usage on MPs than neuts is fine too. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.06.08 18:06:00 -
[458]
You also fail to take into accoutn the apocs larger natural cap and larger natural recharger there btw
But yeah, whatever, why is this thread still here ?
The issue is in a choice you've got to make: - you either make the apoc a viable damage dealer -> nerf geddon - you do not make the apoc a viable damage dealer -> no change
Old blog |
Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2006.06.08 18:15:00 -
[459]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 08/06/2006 18:24:11
Originally by: Rod Blaine You also fail to take into accoutn the apocs larger natural cap and larger natural recharger there btw
But yeah, whatever, why is this thread still here ?
The issue is in a choice you've got to make: - you either make the apoc a viable damage dealer -> nerf geddon - you do not make the apoc a viable damage dealer -> no change
I agree, this threat shouldn't be here anymore. However, the only real way to increase damage on apoc (apart from increasing damage on energy turrets, which would cause tons of complications) would be to give it a 5% damage or ROF bonus instead of the cap capacity bonus. However, as I pointed out a long time ago in this thread, an apoc with a dmg/rof bonus would basically just be an uber arma.
Imagine this apoc (with 5% rof instead of 5% cap capacity):
Apocalypse
8x Mega Pulse Laser II
2xSensor Booster II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Warp Prohibitor I
3x Heat Sink II Large Armor Repairer II 3x 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
5962 shield 20100 armor 6000.0 cap
1043 DPS w/Conflag. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.06.08 18:32:00 -
[460]
Originally by: Araxmas
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo It's balanced. Minmatar do crap dps but varied damage type. Other races do pwnzor dps but restricted damage type. Caldari have to put up with missile delay and the ability to intercept their missiles.
Sssshhhh go away with yoru logic you will anger the evil Godar Marak and he will troll you with his rooley eyes
*removes hodded robe*
BOO!!!
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Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.06.08 18:43:00 -
[461]
Wonder - if all ppl say that "amarr are ok" then why i dont see em so often in actual combat? All i see is some apoc/geds in fleet combat... after that - nothing.
I rarely see zealots/mallers/prophs - saw more curses/pilgrims than those ships combined in last 1-2 months...
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Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.06.08 18:56:00 -
[462]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
The issue is in a choice you've got to make: - you either make the apoc a viable damage dealer -> nerf geddon - you do not make the apoc a viable damage dealer -> no change
Drugs are bad mkay?
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Nifel
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Posted - 2006.06.08 19:22:00 -
[463]
Originally by: Xendie Edited by: Xendie on 08/06/2006 12:03:18
and a tempest can get to 20x dmg modifier with arties while a apoc with tachs get what? 11-13?
No you can't. You get 18.3 with max skills, 3 gyro2 and 1x 3% damage implant (my fleet setup).
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) |
Nifel
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Posted - 2006.06.08 19:26:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Nifel
EMP also has lower raw damage than both AM and MF.
That doesn't count anymore. Projectiles have been boosted several times factoring in those numbers. They could have easily boosted EMP to 48 instead of buffing the dmg mod but they didn't and it doesn't matter.
You have me confused. What damage mod has been boosted? The only damage mod I'm aware of that has been boosted is the lower tier artillery which was sorely needed.
And we've been boosted several times? The only boosts to our weapons have been high tier ACs and lower tier artillery.
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) |
General Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.06.08 19:31:00 -
[465]
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 08/06/2006 19:33:09 Dear players and imbecils. Don't post unless u read several pages in this topic . So saying "lasers can't do explosive damage" is unfonded as lasers can do all type of damage. "Lasers are balanced how they are now" . 100% wrong. Lasers where fine but they got nerfed and the other weapons got boosted. So atm using lasers on your ship is like using a carachter named "pls kill me". You don't belive me Fine , then fit an Apocalypse whit lasers and fight whit it agans a Megatron , a Raven and a Tempest. Fight someone that has your same sp. Unless u're fighting a total noob or using all faction and officer items u're going to loose 95% of the time. We're going to whine about lasers and Amarr ships as Sarmaul did for minmatar and other guys did for gallente. So unless u love bing falmed stop being such a pain in the neck.
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Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.06.08 19:49:00 -
[466]
All hail General Apocalypse!
Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!. |
Araxmas
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Posted - 2006.06.08 20:33:00 -
[467]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
But yeah, whatever, why is this thread still here ?
comeon why
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Mang0o
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Posted - 2006.06.08 20:44:00 -
[468]
Originally by: Malken
with the Mega now able to wtfpwn at close range and long range Minmatar use no cap on their guns and.... yeah need alittle more loving though. and the Domi is the wtfpwn iwin button at close range Caldari still got the wtfpwn recon jammer, Raven wtfpwning at long range and close range
Amarr got the geddon that does good dmg with no tank on and the apoc that does more dmg with projectiles then megapulses
can we get our explosive crystals soon?
YES PLZ!!! 100% trueeee!!!
I love you Mang0o, take a guess why -Eris |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:35:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Rod Blaine But yeah, whatever, why is this thread still here ?
Probably because the real issues are still there.
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Rockbox
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:50:00 -
[470]
Originally by: General Apocalypse Edited by: General Apocalypse on 08/06/2006 19:33:09 Dear players and imbecils. Don't post unless u read several pages in this topic . So saying "lasers can't do explosive damage" is unfonded as lasers can do all type of damage. "Lasers are balanced how they are now" . 100% wrong. Lasers where fine but they got nerfed and the other weapons got boosted. So atm using lasers on your ship is like using a carachter named "pls kill me". You don't belive me Fine , then fit an Apocalypse whit lasers and fight whit it agans a Megatron , a Raven and a Tempest. Fight someone that has your same sp. Unless u're fighting a total noob or using all faction and officer items u're going to loose 95% of the time. We're going to whine about lasers and Amarr ships as Sarmaul did for minmatar and other guys did for gallente. So unless u love bing falmed stop being such a pain in the neck.
Bout sums it up... we are almost at the magical point where we break through the dev Ships & Mods filter that gets rid of threads under 20 pages :D
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥ |
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Meridius
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Posted - 2006.06.08 22:19:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Nifel
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Nifel
EMP also has lower raw damage than both AM and MF.
That doesn't count anymore. Projectiles have been boosted several times factoring in those numbers. They could have easily boosted EMP to 48 instead of buffing the dmg mod but they didn't and it doesn't matter.
You have me confused. What damage mod has been boosted? The only damage mod I'm aware of that has been boosted is the lower tier artillery which was sorely needed.
And we've been boosted several times? The only boosts to our weapons have been high tier ACs and lower tier artillery.
Quote: Projectile Improvements Autocannons have had an increase in Tracking and Damage. Artillery Damage and Optimal Range have been increased. Howitzers now do additional Damage.
From: Build 3106 to 3211
Yes quite a long time ago.
What, did you seriously think this was the first projectile boost since EMP has done 44dmg (since like forever) - _____
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Mollari Cotto
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Posted - 2006.06.08 22:26:00 -
[472]
I'm sick of people trying to make all of the races the same. Minmatar get the mulit damage types. gallente get drones. caldari missiles..... this game will SUCK the day CCP makes all of the races the same.
Its better to know me and not need me than need me and not know me. |
Traeon
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Posted - 2006.06.08 22:32:00 -
[473]
Edited by: Traeon on 08/06/2006 22:33:00 Giving lasers explosive damage seems a bit much. One should go with small improvements and see what they do. Then perhaps add some explosive damage, but only to T2 crystals.
These changes would be a nice start:
- Crystals changed into two lines: one with heavy EM damage, one with heavy thermal damage, and the damage ratios are changed accordingly. Using small crystals in this example:
Multifrequency: 7 EM + 5 THERM --> 8 THERM +4 EM Gamma: 7 EM + 4 THERM --> 8 EM + 3 THERM Xray: 6 EM + 4 THERM --> 7 THERM + 3 EM Ultraviolet: 6 EM + 3 THERM --> 7 EM + 2 THERM Standard: 5 EM + 3 THERM --> 6 THERM + 2 EM Infrared: 5 EM + 2 THERM --> 6 EM + 1 THERM Microwave: 4 EM + 2 THERM --> 5 THERM + 1 EM Radio: 5 EM unchanged
- A "Load all with:" option when right clicking on turrets.
- Fix the reloading glitches with crystals. Make it a smooth and quick operation rather than a click (wait to gun to deactivate), right-click, load a different crystal, wait, when it is loaded, go on to the next. If one doesn't follow these steps the guns will try to load the same crystal "stealing" it from the previous gun that was attempting to load it. Unless this has already been fixed, i haven't flown with lasers in a while.
Not laser related, but give amarrian pilots a sixth frigate, and one with 3 med slots, thanks. I think amarr is a bit underplayed because the Punisher, allthough good in some situations, is lacking in PvP. Similar situation with the Maller. Oh and execute whoever came up with the Inquisitor. It's the worst ship concept in Eve, seriously. It's like giving caldari a drone based frigate.
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Rockbox
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Posted - 2006.06.08 22:52:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Mollari Cotto I'm sick of people trying to make all of the races the same. Minmatar get the mulit damage types. gallente get drones. caldari missiles..... this game will SUCK the day CCP makes all of the races the same.
Bwahahaha... the last thing we want is to be the same... now dont post again untill youve read the better part of these 17 pages
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥ |
Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.06.08 22:54:00 -
[475]
Edited by: Godar Marak on 08/06/2006 22:54:47
Originally by: Mollari Cotto I'm sick of people trying to make all of the races the same. Minmatar get the mulit damage types. gallente get drones. caldari missiles..... this game will SUCK the day CCP makes all of the races the same.
....and we are sick of tardbot's eneting threads without knowing what they are about.
reading not only for students
/|\ /\
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Araxmas
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Posted - 2006.06.08 23:10:00 -
[476]
Originally by: Godar Marak Edited by: Godar Marak on 08/06/2006 22:54:47
Originally by: Mollari Cotto I'm sick of people trying to make all of the races the same. Minmatar get the mulit damage types. gallente get drones. caldari missiles..... this game will SUCK the day CCP makes all of the races the same.
....and we are sick of tardbot's eneting threads without knowing what they are about.
reading not only for students
/|\ /\
Trolling gets you nowhere why dont you just reply constructivly
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Rockbox
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Posted - 2006.06.09 02:30:00 -
[477]
Edited by: Rockbox on 09/06/2006 02:31:12 Bump/Whipmiester
Discuss the indadiquicys of amarrian ships and weapons and my faulty spelling
/me cr@cks whip
Any more suggestions for the balancing issues?
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥ |
Principe
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Posted - 2006.06.09 03:25:00 -
[478]
classical Amarrian design philosophy: if it's strong, sturdy and packs a punch, it's ready for action.
I think I missed the fine print on the bottom of the page
All claims of uber tank and damage are only against sanchas NPC's and beltrats in empire space, use in pvp against other races ships is discouraged
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Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.06.09 06:30:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Araxmas
Originally by: Godar Marak Edited by: Godar Marak on 08/06/2006 22:54:47
Originally by: Mollari Cotto I'm sick of people trying to make all of the races the same. Minmatar get the mulit damage types. gallente get drones. caldari missiles..... this game will SUCK the day CCP makes all of the races the same.
....and we are sick of tardbot's eneting threads without knowing what they are about.
reading not only for students
/|\ /\
Trolling gets you nowhere why dont you just reply constructivly
Its not trolling to tell people that post in a 17 page thread that they are morons for not reading the entire thread before posting.
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Mihoshi Tsunami
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:50:00 -
[480]
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned.
How about this idea about lasers PG and making it undesirable for the other race to use.
Instead that each Amarr ship get a 10% reduction in Medium Energy Weapon capacitor use change it to xx% PG reduction in energy turrets use and in default lower energy turrets cap use built in per energy turret sort off hidden bonus. Perhaps the PG needs to be increased too make this change undesirable for the other races.
Or give all amarr ships a 3rd bonus like battlecruiser "99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules." xx% reduction in Power grid use in Energy turrets.
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