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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Salami Swami
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Posted - 2006.05.29 20:41:00 -
[121]
a big anti-Amarr arguement seems to be based around the Geddon having a longer range... it seems iregardless either the Blasterboat or Autocannon ship makes it into their optimal an d wastes the Geddon as it wont have a tank... 1 LAR II, 1 PDU or RCU, 2 Tracking enhancer II, 4 Heat sink II where is the tank?!?
Also if you continue to classify the Geddon as a mid range ship and say thats why it cant equal the damage delt by the Mega because its a short range ship (which may be true) then I have to ask you... where is Amarr's short range high damage ship? Every time the Geddon will be used as such (short range high damage) and thrown into situations it cannot contend in quite often if you are correct in your critque
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Aemilus Brutus
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Posted - 2006.05.29 21:21:00 -
[122]
I just want a crystal that does some damage other damage than Em and them. Tanking changes and passive resist improvements make it hard to do our damage that everyone keeps calling great..... to get great damage you must screw up your tank, how many of you have actually flown a geddon,apoc, or maller lately?
Don't make it a long range crystal, then you don't have to worry about mega beam and 425mm rails that I keep reading about, over and over and over. Stop already! Mega beams and large rails and fleet battles are part of eve but not the only part.
Em resists are common and because of that our real-life damage output doesn't often match your nice calculations. You don't have to make the explosive or kinetic crystal long range or very high damage output, just give us a choice so we aren't so stuck with EM and Thermal. Just give the Amarr a new balanced option at mid and low ranges... it wouldn't take much.
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boost lasers
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Posted - 2006.05.29 21:29:00 -
[123]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: Deathbarrage
Originally by: General Apocalypse Dear knuckle heads and anti-amarr.
1)First of all learn to spell Amarr and then post.
2)Lasers are beam or pulses of artificially stimulated light. Light is composed of photons which are a pure form of energy. Photons can do ALL types of damage: itĘs just a matter of energy intensity and frequency . If u canĘt understand read a physics book.
3)Amarr ships are underpowered. And donĘt start whining whit boohoo Zealot or Absolution. We have just 1 damage or resistance bonus and lasers just donĘt have the power. Boosting lasers will be an act of balance. I use beam lasers and all of them except tachyon suck big time. Just for decent range and tracking u need a carload of weapon upgrades.
4)SHUT UP. You all had your love we had NONE. And that just because we play the game , we donĘt whine all day long.
actually the reason why lasers can do all types of damage eludes me completely
photons cause cause a thermic reaction and due to the heat atoms start moving(kinetic) that's as far as I'll get
Kinertik : Evrey thing in the universe has it's own mass. photons included. Use a high intensity beam or pulse photons and u get pressure on the spot where the beam is projected = kintyk dmg. If someone whant's more detalied explanations convo me in game Explosive : The heat caused by a laser causes materials to melt. Heat the molten material even further and it will boil ad even more heat it will evaporate but at 0 G it can't evaporate. So as the heat builds up the molecules tend to reach higher speeds. The iner forces will eventulay rip apart the molted material. This all hapends in less the a sec so the phenomenon is posible.
Your broken science makes me cry
Why can't we get guys like Ithildin on our side
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Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.05.29 21:51:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Ithildin
3. Statement, not fact. You tend to lack damage mods because of an already good damage.
I was reading through this thread when I read this.
How many times do we have to tell you that lasers only do thermal and em?
And whats the highest armour resistance most ships have?
Im going to continue reading through this thread now, I hope you wont let me down.
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Rockbox
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Posted - 2006.05.29 22:33:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Rockbox on 29/05/2006 22:34:43
Originally by: Godar Marak And whats the highest armour resistance most ships have?
Oh oh I know! its Explosive and Kinetic! Did I mention we should boost blasters they are waaaaaaaay under damaging and I should be able to run a Dual rep T2 tank on a T2 Neutron fitted blasterthron!
On a more serious note, I think it would be awsome if a dev could pop in and at least acknowledge this threads existance :D
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥ |
Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.30 00:59:00 -
[126]
i just want the Amarr ships to be able to compete on a level playingfield in the shortgame where atm a Apoc with 800mm projectile do more dmg and tank better then a Apoc with Megapulses. and still its not near the dmg output of a Raven/Domi/Mega at closerange with equal tanking abilities.
give Amarr some lub pls Tux, it needs it.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Sniser
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Posted - 2006.05.30 02:04:00 -
[127]
if em armor tanking is the problem then why not simple do conflagration ammo do 3/4 thermal and 1/4 em? also lowering a bit powergrid from their weapons?
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.30 03:29:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Sniser if em armor tanking is the problem then why not simple do conflagration ammo do 3/4 thermal and 1/4 em? also lowering a bit powergrid from their weapons?
its not just armor tanking that is the problem. the other races can do more dmg and tank at close range while amarr cant do either satisfactory enough to be on par.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2006.05.30 04:12:00 -
[129]
First off, give us back our old radio crystals,second a 25% damage to them and center that towards thermal.
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.30 04:50:00 -
[130]
no-no, amarr ships are fine for long range but its atm a one trick horse wich is only good at range with both BS.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Ganandorf
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Posted - 2006.05.30 05:44:00 -
[131]
i suppose if you see geddon as the uber dmg dealer, the only range where conflag crystals are useful is also within the range any b-thron will wtfbbqpwn you
also note the b-thron doing 900DPS from guns alone with a dual large repped tank
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.30 06:45:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Ganandorf i suppose if you see geddon as the uber dmg dealer, the only range where conflag crystals are useful is also within the range any b-thron will wtfbbqpwn you
also note the b-thron doing 900DPS from guns alone with a dual large repped tank
add T2 drones to the equation and its silly compared to the geddon wich cant fit a tank to get close to that. not to mention the apoc wich will need to his "MINMATAR" guns to do any respectable dmg at all close range.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.05.30 07:54:00 -
[133]
I fail to see how the devs has failed completly to realise this.
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Tassi
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Posted - 2006.05.30 07:57:00 -
[134]
I don't see the point of the "gallente-whiners" in this thread. Their dominix is simply on a killing spree and OMGWTFOVERPOWDERED. Megathron gets boosts here and there.
Geddon gets pwnd by mega+domi. Apoc has slight chances with neuts+nos/ecm.
You guys also have the best hac. Taranis after drone-boost is awesome aswell and kills everything if plated/dmg control.
You say amarr are fleetships? AND WHY DO WE NEED 2x RCU t2 TO FIT TACHS? You fit your 425t2's without 1 RCU my friends, I say you have the fleet ship!
You say stuff like "Mega pulse is very good!" and the geddon still gets slaughtered by a blastermega ...
The only section where amarr are nicer than gallente is in the recon section IMO. Curse + pilgrim ftw
However, I don't see any boosts coming for the closerange amarr anway. Hope the abaddon solves this with some nasty nos + drone bonus
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Rockbox
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Posted - 2006.05.30 08:27:00 -
[135]
If the Abbadon turns out to be that awsome, can you imagine the huge mass of Gallente and Caldari whiners that are gonna scream bloody murder for a nerf
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥ |
Tassi
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Posted - 2006.05.30 08:34:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Rockbox If the Abbadon turns out to be that awsome, can you imagine the huge mass of Gallente and Caldari whiners that are gonna scream bloody murder for a nerf
It doesn't need a nos bonus at all, just MASS grid and the arbitrator drone bonus together with a nice dronebay
Oh they would cryyyyyyy
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.30 08:38:00 -
[137]
abbadon is still months away. so to take a ship we have no clue about into consideration is not right.
this is here and now.
Devs have done a great job at boosting every other race in some way and by doing so they have pushed the amarr ships out the door. i dont think that the Devs had any consideration on how all their changes would affect the amarr ships.
to me it just looks like they dont care about balance and only cater to those who whine the most. if so its time for all who drive amarr ships to constantly whine 24/7 on these forums until we get something that resembles balance.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.05.30 08:46:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Tassi I don't see the point of the "gallente-whiners" in this thread. Their dominix is simply on a killing spree and OMGWTFOVERPOWDERED. Megathron gets boosts here and there.
Geddon gets pwnd by mega+domi. Apoc has slight chances with neuts+nos/ecm.
You guys also have the best hac. Taranis after drone-boost is awesome aswell and kills everything if plated/dmg control.
You say amarr are fleetships? AND WHY DO WE NEED 2x RCU t2 TO FIT TACHS? You fit your 425t2's without 1 RCU my friends, I say you have the fleet ship!
You say stuff like "Mega pulse is very good!" and the geddon still gets slaughtered by a blastermega ...
The only section where amarr are nicer than gallente is in the recon section IMO. Curse + pilgrim ftw
However, I don't see any boosts coming for the closerange amarr anway. Hope the abaddon solves this with some nasty nos + drone bonus
hum Tryingg ot fit a meg with 425 T2 ok with max skill this leave me 2100PG and 280 CPU. put a Large armor rep and there is 100PG and 233 cpu left... Yeah Thats what i call so much PG... WE FIT 7 GUNS U FIT 8 so yeah we use less PG stop complaining bout this.
With 8 tachyon 2 3dmg mod and Gleam u get 712.322 dps... With 7 425 rail 3dmg mod and i would get 645.643
AND This is with BS 5 spe 4 all gunnery 5. should i remind the 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per bs lvl for gallente... with BS 1 megatron do 542.338 dps when appoc dont dmg dont change.
It has always been like this megatron is a high end BS u need more skill for it to be effective. its hard to fit a BS yeah.
For the Blasteron POWN evrything do you really think combat always engage with max cap at 10km? put 4 nos on a poc you will pown any blasteron... They to much revelant of capacitor.
Evry ship have his weakness just try to think why bonus are for...
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:01:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Nadec Ascand
Originally by: Tassi I don't see the point of the "gallente-whiners" in this thread. Their dominix is simply on a killing spree and OMGWTFOVERPOWDERED. Megathron gets boosts here and there.
Geddon gets pwnd by mega+domi. Apoc has slight chances with neuts+nos/ecm.
You guys also have the best hac. Taranis after drone-boost is awesome aswell and kills everything if plated/dmg control.
You say amarr are fleetships? AND WHY DO WE NEED 2x RCU t2 TO FIT TACHS? You fit your 425t2's without 1 RCU my friends, I say you have the fleet ship!
You say stuff like "Mega pulse is very good!" and the geddon still gets slaughtered by a blastermega ...
The only section where amarr are nicer than gallente is in the recon section IMO. Curse + pilgrim ftw
However, I don't see any boosts coming for the closerange amarr anway. Hope the abaddon solves this with some nasty nos + drone bonus
hum Tryingg ot fit a meg with 425 T2 ok with max skill this leave me 2100PG and 280 CPU. put a Large armor rep and there is 100PG and 233 cpu left... Yeah Thats what i call so much PG... WE FIT 7 GUNS U FIT 8 so yeah we use less PG stop complaining bout this.
With 8 tachyon 2 3dmg mod and Gleam u get 712.322 dps... With 7 425 rail 3dmg mod and i would get 645.643
AND This is with BS 5 spe 4 all gunnery 5. should i remind the 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per bs lvl for gallente... with BS 1 megatron do 542.338 dps when appoc dont dmg dont change.
It has always been like this megatron is a high end BS u need more skill for it to be effective. its hard to fit a BS yeah.
For the Blasteron POWN evrything do you really think combat always engage with max cap at 10km? put 4 nos on a poc you will pown any blasteron... They to much revelant of capacitor.
Evry ship have his weakness just try to think why bonus are for...
what about inside 15k? 90% of battles take place inside warpscrambling range. and im not talking about what ppl call fleet battles where you warp in at 200k and everyone shoot at one BS and then warps out. fit a tank to that domi or raven or mega and as much dmg you can also and then compare it to what a geddon that fits for equal dmg can tank. you will be suprised how little it can tank.
and then you will say hey use a apoc it can tank!! yeah it can tank but not do any dmg compared to a gallente tier2 or caldari tier2 infact it can tank and do more dmg if i fit it with "MINMATAR" autocannons.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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MacQueen
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:02:00 -
[140]
Just in my opinion, Amarr suppose to be an owesome tanking race which is showed up nicely in their frigate and Cruiser class ships.
However, that ability is totally missing in Battleship class, laser using way too much CPU and Grid for both geddon and apoc to have proper tanking or in anotherhand, we can say Amarr BS is not actually designed good enough to cope with laser for both maintaining a reasonable firepower and a good tank but have to totally polarised in one side: no tanking for good damage output or a damage output like wet paper for a reasonable but still not good enough tanking ability.
Geddon almost cant tank at all when fit 7 Mega Pulse II, yes, we still can have a large rep and 1600mm plate on it, but after a couple Heat sink IIs and some pvp equipments on mid slot, ie. Warp disruptor and web, they dont have cpu left for hardeners at all, crappy capacitor also mean you can only run the rep for a couple cycle before therre's no cap left. Unless you want to add some faction hardeners and ready to spend it in pvp. Fitting Tach on Geddon make it much worse: 2 RCU II for grid and almost no CPU and Grid left for anything else. Most of the case, we wont be able to fit anything on our 8th hislot as well.
Now come the Apoc, 7500 cap with BS level 5, yes, horible amount of cap, but is it great enough ?? Let see if we put some Mega Pulse II there, no guns damage bonus come up with wosre dps output not to mention how good is their damage type. Oh yes, you can have 2 large rep IIs there and run for few cycles but you also will see your capacitor quickly drain out as your reps and guns running, the 5 low slots left, you would sit down for hrs and dont know what to put in there??? No heat sinks ???? Just to survive a bit longer and still cant deal enough damage to the opponent ?? Or a couple heat sink to lift up danage a bit but still nothing to compare with the rest and a crapy tank as well ??
That's only my experiences and it's up to you how to look at it.
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:07:00 -
[141]
Originally by: MacQueen Now come the Apoc, 7500 cap with BS level 5, yes, horible amount of cap, but is it great enough ?? Let see if we put some Mega Pulse II there, no guns damage bonus come up with wosre dps output not to mention how good is their damage type. Oh yes, you can have 2 large rep IIs there and run for few cycles but you also will see your capacitor quickly drain out as your reps and guns running, the 5 low slots left, you would sit down for hrs and dont know what to put in there??? No heat sinks ???? Just to survive a bit longer and still cant deal enough damage to the opponent ?? Or a couple heat sink to lift up danage a bit but still nothing to compare with the rest and a crapy tank as well ??
That's only my experiences and it's up to you how to look at it.
or you fit 800mm autocannons and remove the 2 CPR's that you need to use with a laser setup and put 2 gyroII's there and hey presto you got a ship that does more dmg and tanks better. funny isnt it?
balance for amarr ships versus others are ****e now.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Raznarok
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:16:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Malken
with the Mega now able to wtfpwn at close range and long range Minmatar use no cap on their guns and.... yeah need alittle more loving though. and the Domi is the wtfpwn iwin button at close range Caldari still got the wtfpwn recon jammer, Raven wtfpwning at long range and close range
Amarr got the geddon that does good dmg with no tank on and the apoc that does more dmg with projectiles then megapulses
can we get our explosive crystals soon?
Werd Or at least turn the Apoc into a missile boat. . . . . . . . . Joke.
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Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:21:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Malken
Originally by: MacQueen Now come the Apoc, 7500 cap with BS level 5, yes, horible amount of cap, but is it great enough ?? Let see if we put some Mega Pulse II there, no guns damage bonus come up with wosre dps output not to mention how good is their damage type. Oh yes, you can have 2 large rep IIs there and run for few cycles but you also will see your capacitor quickly drain out as your reps and guns running, the 5 low slots left, you would sit down for hrs and dont know what to put in there??? No heat sinks ???? Just to survive a bit longer and still cant deal enough damage to the opponent ?? Or a couple heat sink to lift up danage a bit but still nothing to compare with the rest and a crapy tank as well ??
That's only my experiences and it's up to you how to look at it.
or you fit 800mm autocannons and remove the 2 CPR's that you need to use with a laser setup and put 2 gyroII's there and hey presto you got a ship that does more dmg and tanks better. funny isnt it?
balance for amarr ships versus others are ****e now.
FUNNY... yeah funny to compare 800mm T2 fitting requierement with Tachyon T2... should i remind BEAMS are long range PULSE short range. Put 8 Mega PULSE laser T2 u have 3695 pg left and 300CPU enough to put 3 dmg mod 1 large acco 3 hardener. or 3dmg mod 1 Large acco 2 hardener 1 1600 mm plate...
when u speack of something try something u can compare.
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Lucre
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:27:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Malken I would not mind loading my beams or pulses with 25-100 crystals that costs a few isk per shot so i dont have to carry 25mill+ in ammo on every ship.
i bet you dont see a mega toting around constantly with 25+mill in ammo in their cargo all the time now do you?
QFT. And for fitting a T2 fleet BS this makes loss (which can easily happen in a lagfest) far less affordable.
WTB lower cost T2 crystals with fewer shots! Please?
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:51:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Nadec Ascand
Originally by: Malken
Originally by: MacQueen Now come the Apoc, 7500 cap with BS level 5, yes, horible amount of cap, but is it great enough ?? Let see if we put some Mega Pulse II there, no guns damage bonus come up with wosre dps output not to mention how good is their damage type. Oh yes, you can have 2 large rep IIs there and run for few cycles but you also will see your capacitor quickly drain out as your reps and guns running, the 5 low slots left, you would sit down for hrs and dont know what to put in there??? No heat sinks ???? Just to survive a bit longer and still cant deal enough damage to the opponent ?? Or a couple heat sink to lift up danage a bit but still nothing to compare with the rest and a crapy tank as well ??
That's only my experiences and it's up to you how to look at it.
or you fit 800mm autocannons and remove the 2 CPR's that you need to use with a laser setup and put 2 gyroII's there and hey presto you got a ship that does more dmg and tanks better. funny isnt it?
balance for amarr ships versus others are ****e now.
FUNNY... yeah funny to compare 800mm T2 fitting requierement with Tachyon T2... should i remind BEAMS are long range PULSE short range. Put 8 Mega PULSE laser T2 u have 3695 pg left and 300CPU enough to put 3 dmg mod 1 large acco 3 hardener. or 3dmg mod 1 Large acco 2 hardener 1 1600 mm plate...
when u speack of something try something u can compare.
to start with a tank for pvp close range very much consists of 2 large reps or it will just die faster then anything else, are you one of those caldari that runs a civilian shield booster on your raven? and how do you intend to run both guns and rep long enough to kill something? remember that dmg is alot less then a megathron or raven or domi even with 800mm autocannons. sure you can kill something now and then but thats most likely to be because the other pilot is crap in his skills or has fitted his ship like a nub.
heck you can even use lower version of autocannons and still do more dmg then megapulses. and since autocannons dont use cap at all you dont have the powerguzzling of the megabeams to worry about but you can instead use that surplus power to survive longer while doing more dmg instead with autocannons.
doesnt anyone see the really wrong thing about this?
btw... someone mentioned the geddon vs the mega and said something about a tier2 were supposed to be superior to a tier1 BS, i give you the DOMINIX wich is the "inside25kwtfpwnmachineofthegame" btw.. dominix is a tier1 BS wich pretty much smokes most things inside 25k straight away unless the driver is a dumb person.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Kinsy
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:55:00 -
[146]
I dont want another nosdronejamboat.
Yuck.
I trained Amarr for one thing and one thing only.
Damage.
The Amarr design method is simple and honest. Armor and high damage. This is reflected by slot layout and crap CPU.
Give us the explosive damage.
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Edward Sarum
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Posted - 2006.05.30 10:38:00 -
[147]
Okay skipped through this thread alot to get to the bottom. While I agree that the Amarr need a new weapon for more verisilte damage types I disagree with explosive crystals. Enegery weapons would not explode on contact. They could create an explosion by hitting a fuel tank of ammo bay but that is it.
Now if you wanted to really add balance I might suggest that a ship carrying an ammo based weapon, such as projectiles, Hybrids and Missiles has the potential on each hit to take additional explosive damage to relfect a possible hit on an ammo location.
As for Amarr weapons, iftting within the science part of science fiction I would suggest that particle beam weapons be allowed to do kinetic damge. This is one of the nice features of particle weapon developement, that fact it punches through armor. As this is still a beam weapon it fits with Amarr style and backstory and also makes sense within the science of the game.
===============================================
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Dimitri Vorski
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Posted - 2006.05.30 10:42:00 -
[148]
I agree with the kinetic damage as the photons from lasers will cause atoms to heat up and this causes movement AKA thermal+kinetic damage
The EM damage is basically bull****
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.05.30 10:58:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Aramendel on 30/05/2006 11:03:00 *sigh* For the Xth time, this "movement" of atoms IS thermal damage. This is the very thing what thermal energy causes. Thermal Energy Definition
It's no "mix" of kinetic and thermal damage because there is nothing to mix. The only thing which happens when you heat something up is that it's atoms get more and more movement energy. If you define that as kinetic damage you have nothing left which is thermal damage and vice versa.
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Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.05.30 11:08:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Edward Sarum Okay skipped through this thread alot to get to the bottom. While I agree that the Amarr need a new weapon for more verisilte damage types I disagree with explosive crystals. Enegery weapons would not explode on contact. They could create an explosion by hitting a fuel tank of ammo bay but that is it.
Yes, by all means lets bring realism in to this argument
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