Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 .. 98 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
korrey
Level Five
|
Posted - 2006.09.29 22:46:00 -
[2401]
Well there are a few of us who have mains that know what Amarr 'were' like. Amarr were overpowered but to get 'balanced' they actually got over-nerfed.
|
Complacency's Bane
|
Posted - 2006.09.29 23:03:00 -
[2402]
Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 29/09/2006 23:05:02 Battleship lasers are fine, the only problem with amarr there is how good EW is and how few midslots amarr battleships have.
Cruiser lasers are more iffy, mainly due to relatively high fitting requirements.
Frigate lasers are actually quite underpowered - medium pulse with high-damage ammo, for example, has less range, damage, and tracking, while being harder to fit and using more cap, then light ions with null and comparable ship bonuses.
|
Devoras2
Amarr Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 02:17:00 -
[2403]
O..M..F..G
Is this thread STILL going on?
Dev And they call me slow.... hey! Thats an insult!
|
Siro
Eye of God Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 08:23:00 -
[2404]
Originally by: Complacency's Bane Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 29/09/2006 23:05:02 Battleship lasers are fine, the only problem with amarr there is how good EW is and how few midslots amarr battleships have.
Battleship lasers are not fine when projectiles do as much damage on the same ship for no cap. The only reason to not fit projectiles over lasers (or even hybrids over lasers) is lack of training.
|
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 08:49:00 -
[2405]
Originally by: Siro
Originally by: Complacency's Bane Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 29/09/2006 23:05:02 Battleship lasers are fine, the only problem with amarr there is how good EW is and how few midslots amarr battleships have.
Battleship lasers are not fine when projectiles do as much damage on the same ship for no cap. The only reason to not fit projectiles over lasers (or even hybrids over lasers) is lack of training.
exactly. the advantages is that you can fit 8*800mm AC's and 2 dmg mods +tank on a apoc and do as much dmg as the apoc with megapulses+2engineering mods that is needed to fit it +tank and use less cap and get different dmg types that doesnt royally suck on armor while using the bonus cap that doesnt gets expended while shooting to tank better.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
|
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 08:51:00 -
[2406]
and you dont need to pack the equivilent of 16k shots to go out and shoot some i dunno what the tech2 crystals cost today since i havent bought any in a long while now but im sure its still pretty expensive.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
|
rataca
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 09:36:00 -
[2407]
just for giggles, talking to a mad friend of mine who also plays eve said something about the laws of physics breaking down when something travels faster than light (tachyon), and the chaos theory then comes in, i say give amarr a chaos theory weapon tht can do random dmge types to whatever and where, bit like a doomsday device, tht way amarr ships can have a good weapon, but only if they selfdestrcut.
|
Martinez
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 14:54:00 -
[2408]
BACK TO THE FRONT PAGE FOR YOU AMARR THREAD!!!
|
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 15:04:00 -
[2409]
Originally by: Martinez BACK TO THE FRONT PAGE FOR YOU AMARR THREAD!!!
There are times that I wished the mods took the time to enforce ALL forum rules. Bumping is NOT allowed, you know. It's ONLY allowed in the MARKET forums. This isn't a market forum. - Three years old |
Andreask14
Sensus Numinis Prime Orbital Systems
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 15:06:00 -
[2410]
Then there are times when i am painfully reminded that amarr is in dire need of a boost. It is good that you are not paranoid, yet, they might still be after you.
|
|
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 15:08:00 -
[2411]
Originally by: Andreask14 Then there are times when i am painfully reminded that amarr is in dire need of a boost.
Oh, posting with content is ok, but just plain bumping is stupid. Especially in this thred since any content and arguements it might've had is long lost now. Large threds are never read.
Also, nothing is in dire need enough to merit breaking rules, no? - Three years old |
HEINZ ZERO
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 20:30:00 -
[2412]
Hi Amarr pilots,
I have never wrote any post on this topic (but I read them all)!!!
I am a great fan to all amarr ships because they are looking awesome!!!
I like the (realy cool) looking lasers too... but I am a originally a caldari pilot ---> thats means I am a raven pilot
---> but!!!!: please boost all other races (+ amarr).. because it¦s very boooring to see only "tournament BS" Raven in eve tournament
|
Complacency's Bane
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 20:44:00 -
[2413]
Originally by: Siro
Originally by: Complacency's Bane Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 29/09/2006 23:05:02 Battleship lasers are fine, the only problem with amarr there is how good EW is and how few midslots amarr battleships have.
Battleship lasers are not fine when projectiles do as much damage on the same ship for no cap. The only reason to not fit projectiles over lasers (or even hybrids over lasers) is lack of training.
Youre going to get the same damage from projectiles on an arma as you will from lasers?
I'm very interested in your 1300 DpS projectile arma setup.
Oh, right - this is one of those 'not true at all' kind of lies which you make up to support your incorrect point. Got it.
|
Siakel
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 21:54:00 -
[2414]
Originally by: Complacency's Bane Youre going to get the same damage from projectiles on an arma as you will from lasers?
I'm very interested in your 1300 DpS projectile arma setup.
I'm very interested in your 1300 DPS Laser Armageddon setup.
|
Raven LeSage
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 22:18:00 -
[2415]
Originally by: Complacency's Bane
Originally by: Siro
Originally by: Complacency's Bane Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 29/09/2006 23:05:02 Battleship lasers are fine, the only problem with amarr there is how good EW is and how few midslots amarr battleships have.
Battleship lasers are not fine when projectiles do as much damage on the same ship for no cap. The only reason to not fit projectiles over lasers (or even hybrids over lasers) is lack of training.
Youre going to get the same damage from projectiles on an arma as you will from lasers?
I'm very interested in your 1300 DpS projectile arma setup.
Oh, right - this is one of those 'not true at all' kind of lies which you make up to support your incorrect point. Got it.
Perhaps I am wrong but I think he meant that you get the same DPS from projectiles as you get from lasers without the cap loss BUT ONLY if you use a ship that doesnt have a damage or range bonus. If a ship has +5% to laser bonus per lvl of course it will do more damage with lasers then with projectiles.
However I do wonder one small detail. If a ship has no bonuse to energy turrets (range or damage)wouldn't projectiles or even hybrids do more damage then lasers?
At my skill lvl I could only try a comparison with a T1 frigate (punisher). Ohhhh - I have a pretty ship now. |
Siakel
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 22:22:00 -
[2416]
Originally by: Raven LeSage
Perhaps I am wrong but I think he meant that you get the same DPS from projectiles as you get from lasers without the cap loss BUT ONLY if you use a ship that doesnt have a damage or range bonus. If a ship has +5% to laser bonus per lvl of course it will do more damage with lasers then with projectiles.
However I do wonder one small detail. If a ship has no bonuse to energy turrets (range or damage)wouldn't projectiles or even hybrids do more damage then lasers?
At my skill lvl I could only try a comparison with a T1 frigate (punisher).
Yeah, that's what they are saying. And the DPS using Projectiles on an Amarr ship with no Laser damage bonus isn't as good as Laser DPS, but the damage types are far better, the fitting requirements are far lower, and they use no capacitor, so it's still a very good choice.
|
Complacency's Bane
|
Posted - 2006.09.30 22:25:00 -
[2417]
Originally by: Raven LeSage Perhaps I am wrong but I think he meant that you get the same DPS from projectiles as you get from lasers without the cap loss BUT ONLY if you use a ship that doesnt have a damage or range bonus. If a ship has +5% to laser bonus per lvl of course it will do more damage with lasers then with projectiles.
However I do wonder one small detail. If a ship has no bonuse to energy turrets (range or damage)wouldn't projectiles or even hybrids do more damage then lasers?
At my skill lvl I could only try a comparison with a T1 frigate (punisher).
Lasers get progressively worse as you go down in ship size. Large lasers are fine, medium lasers are sort of broken, and small lasers are loltastic.
Theyre right that on ships with no laser damage bonuses that other weapons systems are viable (or in cases better). The problem is that on ships with a damage bonus, lasers are lethal - increasing laser damage to help non-bonus ships brings back the gankageddon syndrome. Originally by: Siakel
Originally by: Complacency's Bane Youre going to get the same damage from projectiles on an arma as you will from lasers?
I'm very interested in your 1300 DpS projectile arma setup.
I'm very interested in your 1300 DPS Laser Armageddon setup.
Megapulse, conflag, damage mods, and drones. Go do the math.
|
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2006.10.01 01:07:00 -
[2418]
Originally by: Complacency's Bane
Originally by: Siro
Originally by: Complacency's Bane Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 29/09/2006 23:05:02 Battleship lasers are fine, the only problem with amarr there is how good EW is and how few midslots amarr battleships have.
Battleship lasers are not fine when projectiles do as much damage on the same ship for no cap. The only reason to not fit projectiles over lasers (or even hybrids over lasers) is lack of training.
Youre going to get the same damage from projectiles on an arma as you will from lasers?
I'm very interested in your 1300 DpS projectile arma setup.
Oh, right - this is one of those 'not true at all' kind of lies which you make up to support your incorrect point. Got it.
if yoiu read anything of this thread you would know that the armageddon isnt the only amarr BS, infact the armageddon and the arbitrator is the only tech1 ships that are decent. try setting up a apoc with the 8 AC's and 2dmg mods and you will see. and you can tank better then also.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
|
Nahia Senne
Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.10.01 01:20:00 -
[2419]
boost amarr! and please make them easier to fit ^^
|
Ituralde
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.10.01 01:35:00 -
[2420]
I have been thinking (they repealed the law against that IIRC) and I guess I should put my Amarr ***** here.
Ok, first of all, Tachyon Beam Lasers. I like my Tachyons, I don't mind having to gimp my setup to fit them, but 2 RCUIIs? I think a slight decrease in PG requirement would be appropriate so the extra lowslot normally stuffed with the second RCUII can be put to good use.
Second, Megapulses. Yes, they BBQ pretty well, but a blasterthron or ACpest with a clue will turn you to cheese before you really knew what hit you. The Megapulse does less damage than the blasterthron, but you can't even really fit a half-decent Armor tank to compensate near sufficiently. Ideally, a Pulsegeddon works great at ~25km or so, since it outdamage the Blasterthron and ACpest by far at that sort of range, but there is basically no way to hold that sort of distance without a tackling friend. The Cap draw is really high too, so you can't use your own MWD and sustain combat with a Blasterthron or ACpest because as soon as your cap goes, you stop and have no tank at all, and the Pest or Thron will still have enough cap to finish you off. Decrease the Cap draw on the megapulses and decrease the PG requirements on Megapulses please. The fact that an 8x Megapulses and a tank is completely unsustainable (and un*****ble with a Cap Booster) even on an Apoc is really messed up.
If you want the Amarr to be good at Armor tanking, than make their extra bonus lowslots be useful for tanking as opposed to necessarily being shoved full of PDUs, RCUs, and Cap Power relays. The Amarr in my opinion should with the right skills be able to fit and operate decently a full rack of Megapulses and a tank with 2x EANMIIs, Active hardeners, a Large repper II(or two), and a 1600mm plate without too much trouble. It should be such that while the Megapulse II may not compare equally for damage on an Apoc against a ACpest or Blasterthron, the tanking should be able to compensate. The geddon obviously is more Damage oriented and would keep more its current role, but the ability to throw a 1600mm or 2 (maybe a repper, or perhaps fit a cap booster in the meds?)in the lows to make a semi-passive tank and the cap use such that it could fire sustainably with an AB running(and perhaps at least handle decently capwise with a MWD) would be much appreciated. It might make a Med-range engagement possible too. Make the Full-gank tankless geddon run on Megabeams at ~50km or so, or further gimped for tachyon sniping instead of a "please don't shoot me MR. Battleship" 25km sitting duck of a BBQ-ing Machine.
T1 Cruisers face similar problems of the battleships, namely with the weapons doing crap damage relative to Hybrids and Projectiles, Having a minimum range on Heavy Pulses, and despite the crap damage and little range differential a tank being impossible to fit and sustain given the absurd cap drain. The Heavy Beam Laser also is the absolutely most useless module in t1 cruiser combat since it plain sucks fitting wise, Cap use wise, and damage wise - which brings me to Frigates.
The Amarr t1 frigate lineup is pretty acceptable - barring the 100% useless excuse for a missile ship that is supposed to be our damage frigate. Frankly, when Amarr touch missiles the role should be armor tanking missile boat ideal for med range rapage. Some Laser support. That's not possible for a few reasons: Sacrelidge has no missile bonus. Has too few Lowslots to fit a decent tank. Vengeance has no missile bonus (ok, w/e) and more importantly needs a second launcher slot.The Vengeance should be able to gimp a tank and fit 2x Standard launcher/2x Med beam Laser II but even if it had the second missile slot, the Medium Beam Laser II cannot be fitted at all decently at all on anything(Ha, Ha, 3x medium beam II 1x standard 2 setup.. sux2bu useful Vengeance setup) T1 Missile frigate blows in every way.
Basically Ammar should be the lords of Medium Range combat. (CTD)
Fear is the mind-killer. |
|
Ituralde
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.10.01 02:32:00 -
[2421]
Edited by: Ituralde on 01/10/2006 02:32:42 Medium range combat does not exist because there really is no viable setup. For med range to be worthwhile, it needs to be able to: -> Tank comparable (i.e. same ship size class) long range damage without breaking a sweat such that with an AB it can expect to close a distance and begin to shoot back at extreme ranges for its weaponry. -> Tank survibably against short-range damage such that it has a chance when shelling a hostile vessel starting at med range and closing to short, else have the Cap to attempt to try to maintain range (though be sure not to have the speed such that catching it is impossible, the idea for amarr should be armored pwnage, not weasily dancing outside of range. Maybe give the matari a role there, they can use a bit of a boost too.) -> Significantly outdamage long range weapons, and have weapons designed for it, I.E. for battleship class would have a min range of ~10-15km (short range would have optimal of 20)and a max range of 100 Km(max optimal~80 or so?)(up to 125 or so with t2) and be able to outclass by far the damage of short range weapons with long range ammo and long range weapons with short range ammo. -> Be able to run an Afterburner, Tank, and Guns with little net cap drain with appropriate skills. -> Have the medslots to support a stasis web and an Afterburner to help slow down the short range WTFpwnmobiles that come to tear you a second *******.
So, how? Keep Tachs for the Amarr long range, Boost Heavy Beams for a more viable long range but boost further Focused Medium Beams to be the med-long range cruiser weapon. The Megabeam, Focused Medium Beam, and Dual Light Beam should be the best med range damage of all the races, with Pulses emphasizing the only the shorter end of the medium range. There should be t2 ammo that encourages the following (very basic sketch of an idea):
Megabeam med range - 50km optimal, Optimal + falloff to 65km, realtively low Damage increase but should have increased tracking. Should be effective (i.e. able to hit, obviously it should not be a wtfdamage crystal) at relatively short ranges. Other crystal should be the existing Long range crystal. Give it a minor cap use penalty perhaps to balance it out.
Megapulse (damage crystal) - 25km optimal, Optimal + falloff to 35km, hard to hit frigs in general (recuced tracking perhaps, increased cap use?)nigh impossible <25km hard to hit then even, Cruisers <20km should be impossible to hit, BS <5 should also take reduced damage Megapulse other crystal should have relatively little to no damage increase based on an already relatively lower camage crystal, but slightly longer range (30 optimal or so) but massively increased tracking. What, don't like the idea of Battleship-sized anti-small ship ammo idea, Mr. Precision Cruise missile/Javelin Torpedo?
Amarr also has an annoying weakness of Sensor strength, but that is a somewhat acceptable downside I would say if there is a minor ECM nerf. RPwise, the relatively lower sensor strength is understandable, but the handicap I would say is too high as things are.
Thats enough for now really. I guess I will conclude with a sample idea of new ideal ship roles for Amarr:
Apocalypse(same bonuses) - tanking/decent damage Midshort/Mid(Read, Megapulse)range boat, 8-slot sniper. The bananna boat also needs a little more agility too, reason under abbadon's description. Armageddon(same bonuses) - Damage Machine with moderate tank, Better sniper than Apoc (much as things are now), most agile of the Amarr BS Abaddon(Lets be honest, the Tier3 Battleships are there to give the Caldari a Rail BS, but lets keep the same bonuses) - Basically should be designed around uber med range megabeamage, make its tank the uber hardest to break, give it a huge base cap such that it can operate well long-term and is easily modified, but make the thing basically next to immobile. It should not be running from anything, it should sit, unload damage and be able to take serious pain.
Fear is the mind-killer. |
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2006.10.01 02:41:00 -
[2422]
i agree that minmatar should have more agile BS then they have now, maybe 10% more agile and faster amarr should have easier fittings so the lowslot advantage isnt taken up by engineering mods making the lowslot advantage moot. amarr should also get the weapon energy bonus built in on every amarr ship and another bonus be used as second bonus. furthermore to make amarr the tankers why not make them have 5-7,5% more armor per level as bonus instead as second bonus, that would fit better with the amarr way as tankers. and swap EM/Thermal on the crystals
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
|
Ituralde
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.10.01 02:52:00 -
[2423]
Zealot is fine. Sacrelidge - Mid range Missile + Beam boat. Emphasis on heavy tanking. Give it a missile bonus, make the beams be secondary/support weapons for the missiles.
Vengeance - Bonuses are acceptable, give it a second missile slot so it can run a good 2xStandard/2xMed Beam II setup. Retribution - Its fine. Beautiful even. 1 Medslot is annoying but a bit of a boost to Amarr small weapons (see below) will make it better.
Amarr Interceptors - Boost the Dual light beam and Dual light Pulse IIs a bit(Perhaps something along the lines of the T2 crystal suggestions above@battleships?), Taranis does best short range, Crow is best at long, Crusader can move really fast and maintain a really close orbit, I have a great setup but my dual light beams do no damage. It makes me sad that I can't really operate well against cepters without going for a crazy tricksy wannabe-crow malediction setup.
Omen should fill the role of a hybrid proposed Geddon/proposed Apoc, Leaning towards the agility/damage side but a moderate tank should also be possible. Maller should fill the role of the proposed Apoc and proposed Abaddon, leaning towards the heavy tanked immobility of the Abaddon. A little love to those Amarr small weapons will help this out a ton. Auguror needs to be scrapped entirely, looks like I took an axe to a refrigerator as it is... I really don't care too much though. Arbitrator is fine.
Curse and Pilgrim are fine.
The T1 frigates are fine, save that abombination of a missile frigate is UGLY, needs to be redesigned and re-released as a damage-oriented t1 version of the proposed Vengeance. I saw another thread somewhere that had a good idea if I remember correctly.
So, yeah, CCP, you have plenty of ideas here to work with. Throw us a bleeding bone here perhaps? This many pages deserves at least some sort of ackgnowledgement, I bet you have read most of this, so a little update as to what is being done, maybe a CCP opinion on the matter would at least give us a clue that our views our being heard. Thanks.
Fear is the mind-killer. |
Pesadel0
Vagabundos
|
Posted - 2006.10.01 08:31:00 -
[2424]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Martinez BACK TO THE FRONT PAGE FOR YOU AMARR THREAD!!!
There are times that I wished the mods took the time to enforce ALL forum rules. Bumping is NOT allowed, you know. It's ONLY allowed in the MARKET forums. This isn't a market forum.
QFT this thread really needs to be locked down.
|
Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.01 08:43:00 -
[2425]
Amarr is supposed to be kings of medium range combat? Then reduce pg for lasers, give ships web and scram range bonus.
|
Von Munhausen
Caldari Automated Industries
|
Posted - 2006.10.01 08:52:00 -
[2426]
Originally by: Pesadel0
QFT this thread really needs to be locked down.
Agree and i think there is only one way. Lets see a dev blog for amarr. This will kill the tread.
|
Miri Tirzan
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.10.01 11:13:00 -
[2427]
I agree that if Amarr is the tanking king then up the armor on the ships and let one of the bonuses be either more resistance or more armor. Also think the thermal and EM damage should be switched with Thermal being the main damage and EM secondary.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
|
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2006.10.01 22:50:00 -
[2428]
Originally by: Von Munhausen
Originally by: Pesadel0
QFT this thread really needs to be locked down.
Agree and i think there is only one way. Lets see a dev blog for amarr. This will kill the tread.
propably would. and some kind of "looking into/fixing" statement with some info would definetly close this thread i think. but if it is a statement that "all is fine" it wont die at all. just a bunch of amarr accounts that will be canceled then propably.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
|
XGS Crimson
|
Posted - 2006.10.02 00:11:00 -
[2429]
2459
|
Lady Tammy
|
Posted - 2006.10.02 00:12:00 -
[2430]
oops, cant count... 2461
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 .. 98 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |