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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Kenneth Endashi
Green Skull LLC
24
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 19:29:00 -
[931] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Darkie Katelo wrote:CCP you have a beautifull game, with thing in space, please REMOVE THE ******** TOOLTIP, is insulting, and redundant, we play this game, because we are not idiots, turn it OFF!!! If I try to targe something in space in a tooltip list, then targets jump in another place, and i cant see nothing behind the black box of death. TURN THE DAMN THING OFF!!! Not delay, give us a function to TURN IT OFF! please dont consider us idiots. thank you. When you started playing you instantly knew what everything did and where to find it, right? He learned, is what he's trying to say. He learned it. I am very new to the game and I learned it. The tool tips are obtrusive and extremely unhelpful. |
Josie solo
Singular Motives
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 19:39:00 -
[932] - Quote
The issue that you don't seem to grasp is that this new way of displaying brackets is worse than the old way. It becomes more of an issue the more information (ships, asteroid belts, stations) there is on screen.
A good example is a gatecamp; the old way when you mouseover the brackets of ships, wrecks etc.. they move out of the way and you can still see the ships in space, moving about and their positions relative to each other. This information is vital to assess what you do next. Whereas now this big, black box covers everything up.
At least provide a slider to change the opaque level of these big intrusive boxes. |
Kenneth Endashi
Green Skull LLC
24
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 19:57:00 -
[933] - Quote
Josie solo wrote:The issue that you don't seem to grasp is that this new way of displaying brackets is worse than the old way. It becomes more of an issue the more information (ships, asteroid belts, stations) there is on screen.
A good example is a gatecamp; the old way when you mouseover the brackets of ships, wrecks etc.. they move out of the way and you can still see the ships in space, moving about and their positions relative to each other. This information is vital to assess what you do next. Whereas now this big, black box covers everything up.
At least provide a slider to change the opaque level of these big intrusive boxes. This is important. I had no trouble managing gate-camps before this update. I narrowly navigated null-sec hate bubbles and interceptors using on-screen information that told me what I needed to know without obscuring the field of play.
I feel like this idea for tool-tips was a good idea in perhaps a few instances of gameplay but has no place in space, where our overviews are already customized for purpose, and the hard work developers already didion the space interface in the past made us sharper pilots on the whole.
Thank you, CCP. I will gladly help you identify inefficiencies in the UI if you make an attempt to remove tool-tips from space. |
Arec Bardwin
1382
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 20:08:00 -
[934] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is? (a genuine question and please be specific, for example: "cannot point/target object is space", why not, what is the problem?) Most of the complaints I have seen about it is that you cannot click through it, but that was the case with the brackets before (we have old clients we can compare to). The delay has now been fixed, the opacity has been tuned down, the list only appears on clusters.... what else is so horrible except that it's new? Just so know, we are still keeping an eye on the situation, and have had a lot of discussions about it. What was wrong with the old system, except that it was old?
I don't have the old system available for comparison, but a few pointers:
1. No opacity changes as I have seen, If you can see through that box of death you must have some sort of super vision. The old system was vastly superior in this regard. There needs to be an option to adjust opacity and remove the friggin window frame.
2. Anchor the LEFT side of the list to the mouse pointer, not the friggin middle of the box! This way we can quickly flip left and then right again to refresh. PLUS less of the action is covered by the list.
3. Now EVERYTHING is truncated, so alot of potentially important information is not displayed. The old list was a lot more dynamic in this regard. You could actually interact outside of the list where the list entries were short. With the box of death there is just a friggin box (did I mention it was smack in the middle of the action?)
4. The best upgrade would be the old list with options to customize number of listings and ability to scroll with mouse wheel.
I still can't believe this design went to TQ, if I wanted to spend another 5 minutes I could probably draw a schematic to help out. But you guys are discussing this and keeping an eye on the situation, so this shouldn't be needed. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
305
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 20:26:00 -
[935] - Quote
The lack of empathy with new players present in this thread is saddening :(
Some legitimate complaints but a lot of people who don't remember what it was like to be new players just figuring out a confusing and complicated game for the first time.
An option to turn off tool-tips is fine, but removing them entirely? No, they're useful for newer players who are still learning the UI and gameplay. |
Kenneth Endashi
Green Skull LLC
24
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 20:29:00 -
[936] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:The lack of empathy with new players present in this thread is saddening :(
Some legitimate complaints but a lot of people who don't remember what it was like to be new players just figuring out a confusing and complicated game for the first time. I am new to the game and find the tool-tips detract from the experience. Even if I was "brand new" to the game, I would wonder why the tool-tip says the same thing as the thing to which it's supposed to be "tipping" me off.
And I would probably assume it's an artifact left behind from an incomplete job. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5890
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 21:03:00 -
[937] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: An option to turn off tool-tips is fine, but removing them entirely? No, they're useful for newer players who are still learning the UI and gameplay.
I don't think anyone here has seriously promoted removing tooltips entirely, however turning them off would be welcome there's no reason to force unnecessary clutter and complication on everyone especially when this "feature" obviously wasn't out of alpha, and clearly was not completely thought out.
Futzing-about trying to tweak this on the live server is truly laughable, I sure hope this latest experience causes CCP to really rethink their present QA practices given their new release schedule.
/who am I kidding... The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
John Lawyer
Rusty Spewns
12
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 21:18:00 -
[938] - Quote
Ok, let's not fool ourselves about newbies! I remember well when I was newbie and how happy I was to find all necessary info just one click away (RMB --> Show Info). Of course, some descriptions were not completely clear for me but that is another story.
P.S.: my subscription has expired - still waiting for adequate solution as for 'tooltips' case. P.P.S.: CCP, you are doing a good game, thank you for this, but these tooltips are ... weird. Really. |
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
473
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 21:36:00 -
[939] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is? (a genuine question and please be specific, for example: "cannot point/target object is space", why not, what is the problem?) Most of the complaints I have seen about it is that you cannot click through it, but that was the case with the brackets before (we have old clients we can compare to). The delay has now been fixed, the opacity has been tuned down, the list only appears on clusters.... what else is so horrible except that it's new? Just so know, we are still keeping an eye on the situation, and have had a lot of discussions about it.
If there is huge lag (which we have not experienced), then please file a bugreport on it. Running the logserver and submitting that file might be a good idea, so we can better investigate potential issues. As I grow accustomed to using the new in-space tooltips to navigate, I find it generally clear and easy to use.
However, there are certain circumstances in which I'd like to see some more improvements:
The number of characters visible often clips longer names, making it impossible to identify or differentiate between similarly named destinations, eg. multiple asteroid belts. After mousing over a bracket cluster on the edge of the screen, moving the cursor onto the tooltip in order to select one of the presenting items occasionally causes the tooltip to disappear as if I'd moved my mouse away from the bracket cluster. When following the yellow autopilot pathway, if the bracket navigation tooltip is populated with more than 10 items, scrolling through feels like an unnecessary chore (I don't recall this being a problem with the previous system). Could the yellow target item be given priority and moved into the initially visible 10? It would also be useful to have the highlighted yellow bracket made more prominent when in a bracket cluster - white and yellow are difficult to distinguish. When using multiple monitors and moving the mouse cursor away from the EVE client, the departing cursor often triggers a tooltip which remains for the duration of the absent cursor. When mousing over single brackets at the right edge of the screen, the resulting (non-tooltip) text flickers. EVE Online: The Text Adventure --- GameSkinny Correspondent --- Freebooted Blogger |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
227
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 21:52:00 -
[940] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is? (a genuine question and please be specific, for example: "cannot point/target object is space", why not, what is the problem?) Most of the complaints I have seen about it is that you cannot click through it, but that was the case with the brackets before (we have old clients we can compare to). The delay has now been fixed, the opacity has been tuned down, the list only appears on clusters.... what else is so horrible except that it's new? Just so know, we are still keeping an eye on the situation, and have had a lot of discussions about it.
Thank you for caring! I think much of the other feedback for this question on page 47 is spot on. I would rate the feedback on page 47 a 10/10, would read again. I also think it cannot be stressed enough that there are useful tooltips and non-useful tooltips. Useful tooltips display information, usually numbers, which I cannot usually get anywhere else. Non-useful tooltips communicate redundant or trivial information only some of which would be useful for even a 1 day old character. I also agree with the comment that the little GÇ£quick fadeGÇ¥ animation the tooltips have when you stop mousing over them is annoying. The tooltips should simply disappear once you remove your mouse.
As for the problem with the bracket list: I've explained much of this in previous posts, but let's go through the problems. The general issue is that brackets are for finding information IN SPACEGÇönot for finding information in space which then gets transferred to a list. Take a look at this screenshotGÇöa random SS from a normal interaction in EVE, in this case while PVEing: http://i.imgur.com/uGPnptA.jpg?1
I am not being condescending, but I am going to explain the problems as if I were explaining them to a programmer or gamer who did not play EVE:
1) The first thing you notice about this screenshot? There is way the heck too much information going on. Like seriously too many lists / blocks of information. Even if you had zero clue what any of the lists communicated, you will likely also notice that the one that is most disruptive is the one that is taking up a big portion of the middle of the screen, where all the GÇ£actionGÇ¥ seems to be happening.
2) You might also notice that the big block of text in the middle is just a jumble of information. It doesn't have ordering options, but even if it did you already have a list with ordering options to the far right.
3) When I am interacting with things in spaceGÇöinstead of on the UIGÇöI use things like GÇ£depth perceptionGÇ¥ and zooming in and out to maneuver, find targets, find where my own ship is located, find where other ships wrapped to or what direction they are flying in, etc. Having a big list pop upGÇöeven if transparentGÇöprevents me from doing that. It messes with depth perception and zooming, for instance, or it limits the ability to manually pilot, particularly in hectic areas.
Plus all the other stuff people have said. |
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Eodp Ellecon
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 22:37:00 -
[941] - Quote
Suddenly 40+ pages, TL;DR.
I like tool tips and use them often...saw some requesting ability to turn off due to familiarity which I understand. I couldn't think of how to turn off only some categories and not others soooo...I'd like to have a mobile window for these tips so I can place them out of the way but easy to reference, ala those invisible windows for dmg done or targeted items move around. For my purposes, this window would show all tips, whether skills, PI info, etc.
At the same time I want to be able to move the HUD readout (Approaching, Orbiting, etc) to another location. It gets in the way when you have many targets locked but the locked targets bar down close to the modules themselves when mounted on the bottom portion of the screen.
ty, Eo |
Lexiana Del'Amore
Nouvelle Rouvenor
62
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 22:57:00 -
[942] - Quote
i'm reasonably happy with the introduction of a slider for tooltips, but would much prefer a on/off funtion or at least a 10 second longer delay if you have slider set to longest delay... No matter how usefull a tooltip might be to a person, at some point you have learned what it is it's teaching you. At that point it becomes a cause of major frustration. University students don't start each class with a recitation of their ABC's...
About the ingame brackets...
The old system was far superior from a interactive standpoint, especially in pvp situations where every second and click or misclick can count. It did not obscure your field of vision in a way that the new system does.
As a pilot who flies logistical ships in small/medium faction war fleets i'll give you a example...
We are about to jump into a system where a enemy fleet is at the sun... a pilot in our comms but not in our fleet has tackle on a enemy battleship. As a logi pilot i want to provide logistics for our non fleeted tackler friend as soon as we land on grid. With the old system i could pick him out of a gaint blob with pinpoint accuracy and get him locked up to provide reps ASAP. Now with the new system i get the giant black box of death where i would have to scroll through a list losing valuable time. meanwhile this box obscures whatever is going on behind it.
The old system felt like a surgeon's knife, new system feels like a hammer... |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
496
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 22:59:00 -
[943] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is? (a genuine question and please be specific, for example: "cannot point/target object is space", why not, what is the problem?) Most of the complaints I have seen about it is that you cannot click through it, but that was the case with the brackets before (we have old clients we can compare to). The delay has now been fixed, the opacity has been tuned down, the list only appears on clusters.... what else is so horrible except that it's new?
Oh, come on!!! Seriously??? In the name of anything and everything that's ever been held holy, you cannot be serious.
Prior to your post, you have FORTY-SIX PAGES of posts telling you what's wrong with it.
The detail stuff sometimes varies from one player to another, but from what I can see just about everyone is unanimous about one thing:
It's a RUDDY GREAT BLACK BOX sitting smack in the middle of the screen where no such thing should be appearing.
Boxes of additional explanatory text inside or alongside existing information boxes are just about acceptable but in-space information should appear only as discreet, unobtrusive floating text - no box and no black background.
So, apart from all the other considerations, this massive, intrusive, in-your-face black monstrosity totally destroys any sense of immersion.
GET RID OF IT.
Protip: try playing the game yourself, then you might begin to see what we mean.
|
Alexis Nightwish
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 00:20:00 -
[944] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:I just wanted to say that we are still taking onboard the feedback in this thread and elsewhere. We are continuing to work on improving the overall experience with tooltips and contextual information in general.
I understand where some of the concerns about abandonment of this package of features 'as is' are coming from but that is definitely not an option as far as we are concerned.
We're looking to put out a patch tomorrow fixing some specific defects but also putting in some delay configuration options.
Please make it an option. Take a look at my previous, wonderful overview.
Now, look at the travesty it has become!
It's worthless now! |
Jimmy Prophet
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 00:36:00 -
[945] - Quote
Something else i have noticed. When having the delay set to maximum for in flight settings i hover over something and wait for a tooltip but when i move the mouse to another object the tooltip for the new object appears alomost instantly instead of the long delay |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
360
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 00:38:00 -
[946] - Quote
make it an option CCP , make it by default OK , so new players can have it but for vets no need that , don't do like the other things when you waited 3/4 month to understand our voices.
Thx RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2403
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 06:58:00 -
[947] - Quote
CCP have foolishly backed themselves into a corner over this by stating that they will not provide an off button.
The only 'adjustment - tweak' which will satisfy most of the player base is an an off button.
CCP need to man up, recognize that even though they tried to do a good thing, they have simply got this wrong by an order of magnitude, and give their player base an off button.
Have I mentioned that we want on off button? This is not a signature. |
Darkie Katelo
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 07:46:00 -
[948] - Quote
Let me make it clear why i need a OFF button My desktop with "ToolTips" http://imgur.com/gWrU71m My desktop without "ToolTips" http://imgur.com/aQ6VKQB That is the "ToolTip" for me in space, a BIG BLACK Sticky note with redundand information blocking my view for whats behind it. Every new player learns this in tutorial, what is a Stargate, Station, ETC. You consider us childs who dont know what are we doing in space. We do know what to do. Please for the sake of everything what is nice in this game, please give us a OFF BUTTON!! |
Eurynome Mangeiri
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 08:31:00 -
[949] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is? (a genuine question and please be specific, for example: "cannot point/target object is space", why not, what is the problem?) Most of the complaints I have seen about it is that you cannot click through it, but that was the case with the brackets before (we have old clients we can compare to). The delay has now been fixed, the opacity has been tuned down, the list only appears on clusters.... what else is so horrible except that it's new? Just so know, we are still keeping an eye on the situation, and have had a lot of discussions about it.
If there is huge lag (which we have not experienced), then please file a bugreport on it. Running the logserver and submitting that file might be a good idea, so we can better investigate potential issues. .....last time i will answer you guys, it's like speaking to a wall it seems:
page 1 post #17
1- the tooltips get in the way and prevent UI usage in critical situation 2- the tooltips content is useless since it shows LESS info than previous one, and said few info is redundant 3- we want the ability to TURN THEM OFF (at least the in space one)
what in hell is hard to understand in this? |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
361
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 09:09:00 -
[950] - Quote
This ^
and OK ok no no i get it they can turn it off because of code Ok BUT
BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT considering you have just done it
INCREASE THE DELAY TO X seconds ... X= 5min or MORE so (it would be like it was turn off. )
You see we are not deafs CCP , don't be evil. RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
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Locii
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
35
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 10:43:00 -
[951] - Quote
can you just attach tool tips to the same delay tool as for radial menus. I find both annoying and really don't need to see them |
Orla- King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
77
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 13:15:00 -
[952] - Quote
Just pointing out here, we now have a couple of sliders (anyone else remember that show?), set it to long and you actually have to try to see them. |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
331
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 13:46:00 -
[953] - Quote
Thanks. Well that didn't seem so hard, although an off button would have been preferable.
And since you are probably reading this thread while ignoring another thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4630311#post4630311 How about a delay slider on the gate jump graphics? Some of us could then set the delay long enough to have the graphics overridden by the display of the new system due to the session change into the new system. Again though, an persisting off button for the jump (and another for the autoscan) visuals would be preferable. CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, please give us an off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals. |
Lisa Gentilette
The Scope Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 14:49:00 -
[954] - Quote
Dear dev's, while you're busy making our EVE game lives a little less annoying from this great UI add-on, could you also look into this next thread and see if you can get rid of the pop-up windows that take our control completely away while flying around in important spaceships?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346524
It's 2014, a don't show this again button would be nice with a tiny replacement countdown clock somewhere at a corner for standard downtime messages.
Hm, having written that, how about an option on your beloved tooltips to have a "do not show this again" button somewhere while pressing ALT or something when hovering over the wonderful tooltips which are often not tool tips but just plain information, but that aside.
Please? |
Mag's
the united
17289
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 14:56:00 -
[955] - Quote
Eurynome Mangeiri wrote:CCP karkur wrote:Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is? (a genuine question and please be specific, for example: "cannot point/target object is space", why not, what is the problem?) Most of the complaints I have seen about it is that you cannot click through it, but that was the case with the brackets before (we have old clients we can compare to). The delay has now been fixed, the opacity has been tuned down, the list only appears on clusters.... what else is so horrible except that it's new? Just so know, we are still keeping an eye on the situation, and have had a lot of discussions about it.
If there is huge lag (which we have not experienced), then please file a bugreport on it. Running the logserver and submitting that file might be a good idea, so we can better investigate potential issues. .....last time i will answer you guys, it's like speaking to a wall it seems: page 1 post #171- the tooltips get in the way and prevent UI usage in critical situation 2- the tooltips content is useless since it shows LESS info than previous one, and said few info is redundant 3- we want the ability to TURN THEM OFF (at least the in space one) what in hell is hard to understand in this? Oh they understand it completely. But they are now so concerned with protecting the idea, they care not to change it in a way that removes it. With seemingly such an easy request, I find it mind boggling that they refuse to implement it.
Much like the other changes that were made and asked for ways to turn off. Options are bad it seems.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc The East India Co.
32
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 17:08:00 -
[956] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Today's patch notes: Added a couple of new options in the settings menu for controlling the tooltip display delay and the bracket list display delay Is it possible to make that value zero would just remove transition effect? I mean tooltips will just appear and disappear instantly. Would be very nice. |
Colman Dietmar
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
53
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 17:20:00 -
[957] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is?
1) When cursor moves over different brackets accidently, the popup list tends to get re-generated, making its position and contents somewhat unpredictable and jumpy. In the old system, the list would cover or at least touch most of the brackets around what you pointed at, pulling all those icons into the list, thus making sure they all are accessible and not triggering subsequent list generation.
2) The popup list sometimes blocks access to brackets. In the old system, the icons beneath a list would be put into it, making sure everything remains accessible.
3) Since you've made the popup list have maximum width, there now needs to be an extra tooltip, which would show the full name of the list entry under the cursor. |
Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc The East India Co.
32
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 17:32:00 -
[958] - Quote
Colman Dietmar wrote:[quote=CCP karkur]3) Since you've made the popup list have maximum width, there now needs to be an extra tooltip, which would show the full name of the list entry under the cursor. Lets add a skill which adds more tooltips http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/we_5ee8cf_287774.jpg
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10060
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:40:00 -
[959] - Quote
Colman Dietmar wrote:CCP karkur wrote:Could you please explain to me what your huge problem with the bracket list is? 1) When cursor moves over different brackets accidently, the popup list tends to get re-generated, making its position and contents somewhat unpredictable and jumpy. In the old system, the list would cover or at least touch most of the brackets around what you pointed at, pulling all those icons into the list, thus making sure they all are accessible and not triggering subsequent list generation. 2) The popup list sometimes blocks access to brackets. In the old system, the icons beneath a list would be put into it, making sure everything remains accessible. 3) Since you've made the popup list have maximum width, there now needs to be an extra tooltip, which would show the full name of the list entry under the cursor. I think I'm just going to repost this every day until CCP gets it. If I remember, that is. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10060
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:54:00 -
[960] - Quote
Yes this information is very suited for tooltips thank you.
Why even have tooltips here at all? I can open the item description and attributes very easily by clicking the little white circle with an i in it for info. And don't even tell me that someone might not know to do that, because if you've figured out how to use fitting management to the point of getting to this page then you definitely already know how to access info on an item, and even if you don't it's still pretty obvious that you can access it by either right clicking -> Show Info, or clicking the white circle i. I think double clicking also works but I'm not sure.
But the main point is, do you even have any clue what tooltips are for? Certainly not for the presentation of FOUR PARAGRAPHS. That's just absurd. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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