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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Marsha Mallow
570
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 19:57:00 -
[91] - Quote
Heh well said on Kugu and FHC, I used to want to gouge my eyes out trying to keep up with 90 pages of drivel a day. I quite like the Eve-O forums though, always have. It's a diverse mix and sometimes the perspective of long term NPC players is interesting. I've just been semi active for months in an NPC corp and just logging in for five minutes and watching corp chat was amusing, not just for the hilariously silly discussions that take place. I forgot they do have a few vocal people who are actually long term players and fairly sociable, in some ways I can see some parts of being there as attractive.
If there is a real problem with these particular posters maybe the forum regulars need to be a bit more proactive reporting derailing posts asap. Actually a status between ISD and some of the forum regulars who contribute might be a good thing - if they report a post it gets prioritised? I know a few have been quite annoyed with some of the trolling recently and reporting certain people persistently.
Perhaps it's worth considering broader penalties for badposting too. If a player is persistently moderated, they get an insta ban (don't look at me like that ISDs, I'll behave) for a certain period. If a lot of players from specific corps do, the corp is, and the alliance and so on. I'm not talking perma bans, just a week/month gag or whatever. Maybe a stickied list announcing player gags (that would be hilarious) and linking the offending post so people don't keep repeating.
There probably should be a sticky somewhere on GD about forum etiquette. This was the first forum I ever interracted in and it is like learning a new language in some ways, sometimes you do misstep and derail or cause gross offence unintentionally (actually I found GD too hostile initially so spent years on sub-forums and just read this one).
Komi Toran wrote:How about you stop lying and misrepresenting what I'm saying, and I can stop correcting your mendacity? That sounds like a better idea to me. Is that Trippia? :P First the multi quoting, now the liar liar, desire to correct AND big words. Can't be coincidence.
Anyway, I'm not opposed to your suggestion and I think it's an interesting discussion which should probably be open more or less permenantly in some way. It boils down to - how can CCP & the playerbase create and promote an environment where people can chat, argue, banter and exchange ideas constructively. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Prince Kobol
1737
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 19:59:00 -
[92] - Quote
Over the years I have grown to hate NPC Corps and consider them a blight in our game.
To me a NPC corp should be a temporary place for a character to live whilst changing corps / selling a character / or if you plan on taking a break from Eve but do not want to stop your subscription.
I would love nothing more then NPC Characters not being able to make posts on the forum unless you are selling your character.
I would love nothing more if NPC Characters could not pick up say level 2+ missions.
I would love it if NPC characters took a huge hit in terms of cost / efficiency /refinery etc in regards to Industry and Market Jobs.
At some point CCP really need to take a good long hard look at NPC Corps because I am damn sure they did not want them to be used as they are today.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1162
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 20:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Over the years I have grown to hate NPC Corps and consider them a blight in our game.
To me a NPC corp should be a temporary place for a character to live whilst changing corps / selling a character / or if you plan on taking a break from Eve but do not want to stop your subscription.
I would love nothing more then NPC Characters not being able to make posts on the forum unless you are selling your character.
I would love nothing more if NPC Characters could not pick up say level 2+ missions.
I would love it if NPC characters took a huge hit in terms of cost / efficiency /refinery etc in regards to Industry and Market Jobs.
At some point CCP really need to take a good long hard look at NPC Corps because I am damn sure they did not want them to be used as they are today. And yet there isn't a single justifiable reason for any of these restrictions. Which actually demonstrates why restricting posting abilities in the greater forums from any specific group is a bad idea. One persons poor understanding of a play decision or their "feelings" about certain players in no way provides any sort of good reasoning for restricting access to the Devs or community. |
Rendiff
Funk Soul Brothers Northern Associates.
71
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 20:20:00 -
[94] - Quote
ITT: Goonswarm complaining about meta. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3048
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 20:54:00 -
[95] - Quote
admiral root wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:In particular, I wouldn't mind seeing something such as a requirement to be in an npc corporation to start a thread in the Character Bazaar. A down side to that is that if you then don't find a buyer you've had to add a couple of extra lines to your employment history for no reason. Maybe that's no big deal, but what if you then try and sell the character a few months later, again without success? Also, the main character on each of my accounts is a corp director. Were I to sell any of them I'd want to be able to make use of their roles until I agreed a sale. To sell a character on the character bazaar, you must first be in an npc corporation. Otherwise, the thread is closed and we tell you why it was closed. If people could only post there with a character already in an npc corporation, it saves a step in the process and cuts down on threads that need to be closed. We don't like closing threads, but it's the rules. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Marsha Mallow
570
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 21:11:00 -
[96] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:To sell a character on the character bazaar, you must first be in an npc corporation. Otherwise, the thread is closed and we tell you why it was closed. If people could only post there with a character already in an npc corporation, it saves a step in the process and cuts down on threads that need to be closed. We don't like closing threads, but it's the rules. It's a nuisance, especially for character traders who need to be on the front couple of pages for a couple of hours to get some visibility. It's also another example of people blatantly breaking rules or gaming the system (often via alts) and even if reported it sometimes works in their favour. Character traders who do this persistently should be temp gagged imo, across their accounts. I saw one person persistently alt posting across various characters, visibly replying to themself at one point with nearly the entire first page of the CB covered.
We can ignore various misdemeanors such as excessive bumping, arguing in thread, people posting whilst in a player corp etc or watch it turn into a nasty spat continually bumping us down, so it's easier to report. Prob is we report, then the first page is sometimes filled with locked threads, which almost punishes us for acting, and rewards the offender with another period of visibility (particularly given that they can carry on trading ingame via mail/chat)
For the character bazaar in particular, it would be fairer to the players who do follow the rules if locked threads didn't instantly jump up to the top and push everything down. Particularly if they are the ones reporting them to try preserve a level playing field. A mechanic that locks threads where they are and preserves their position might be better.
On making threads, a popup with a condensed form of the terms for selling characters which people must click to accept would also be really handy. I know people insta click through TOS etc, but if formatted properly and concisely it might save a lot of workload and annoyance for those entirely new to it. People simply do not read the stickied threads. There are too many for a start and they aren't particularly concise. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
179
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:27:00 -
[97] - Quote
I believe this proposal to be wrong but I have trouble putting my finger on exactly where. Maybe the closest thing is related to:
La Nariz wrote:-It provides consequences/content for actions by exposing posters to war declarations should their posts be deemed unpalatable by other players,
This brings the question: are you entitled to retaliate against anyone you don't like?
Please don't start with choices and consequences mantra. There are lots of actions in EVE universe which bear no consequences worth talking about. Some because of technical limitations, some because it's practically unfeasible (So, of course I can wardec CFC because I don't like this thread, right? I can imagine all you guys laughing your asses off. Now, THAT's a consequence...).
If the quality of posts/threads is an actual problem either TOS/EULA should be updated or you should take a cup of HTFU all vets tend to offer anyone else around.
Rendiff wrote:ITT: Goonswarm complaining about meta.
This pretty much sums it. No offense, whole my post is with no ill will however from where I stand it looks like if Goons had too much of their own medicine.
To be a little bit on constructive side I think Malcanis' proposal with personal ignore lists is quite sensible. Another idea which I would accept (if it's not already proposed or implemented, I haven't checked) is to restrict some forums for trial accounts. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5065
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:31:00 -
[98] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:To sell a character on the character bazaar, you must first be in an npc corporation. Otherwise, the thread is closed and we tell you why it was closed. If people could only post there with a character already in an npc corporation, it saves a step in the process and cuts down on threads that need to be closed. We don't like closing threads, but it's the rules.
How would I express interest in purchasing a character if I can't post in there without being in an NPC corp? This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5065
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:32:00 -
[99] - Quote
Rendiff wrote:ITT: Goonswarm complaining about meta.
ITT: Renter misses the point & posts random stuff. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5065
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:33:00 -
[100] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Over the years I have grown to hate NPC Corps and consider them a blight in our game.
To me a NPC corp should be a temporary place for a character to live whilst changing corps / selling a character / or if you plan on taking a break from Eve but do not want to stop your subscription.
I would love nothing more then NPC Characters not being able to make posts on the forum unless you are selling your character.
I would love nothing more if NPC Characters could not pick up say level 2+ missions.
I would love it if NPC characters took a huge hit in terms of cost / efficiency /refinery etc in regards to Industry and Market Jobs.
At some point CCP really need to take a good long hard look at NPC Corps because I am damn sure they did not want them to be used as they are today.
They should just remove them or make them wardeccable imo.
Edit: I'm more in favour of the latter. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
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Marsha Mallow
577
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:52:00 -
[101] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:To sell a character on the character bazaar, you must first be in an npc corporation. Otherwise, the thread is closed and we tell you why it was closed. If people could only post there with a character already in an npc corporation, it saves a step in the process and cuts down on threads that need to be closed. We don't like closing threads, but it's the rules. How would I express interest in purchasing a character if I can't post in there without being in an NPC corp? It's just the sale character required to be in an NPC corp, but yeah the rules are a bit opaque. Reasons being, impersonation (you're also supposed to send corp-wide mails when you sell your charactaer - not sure how often that happens lol) but also to prevent firesales during hacking etc. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2343
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:53:00 -
[102] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:I believe this proposal to be wrong but I have trouble putting my finger on exactly where. Maybe the closest thing is related to: La Nariz wrote:-It provides consequences/content for actions by exposing posters to war declarations should their posts be deemed unpalatable by other players, This brings the question: are you entitled to retaliate against anyone you don't like? Please don't start with choices and consequences mantra. There are lots of actions in EVE universe which bear no consequences worth talking about. Some because of technical limitations, some because it's practically unfeasible (So, of course I can wardec CFC because I don't like this thread, right? I can imagine all you guys laughing your asses off. Now, THAT's a consequence...). If the quality of posts/threads is an actual problem either TOS/EULA should be updated or you should take a cup of HTFU all vets tend to offer anyone else around.
You're asking for me to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without the peanut butter, choices and consequences are part of the driving features of the game.
To answer your question, yes I am if I'm willing to make the choice to do so and handle the consequences for my actions. This all assumes following the TOS/EULA/forum rules.
Yep that's exactly what you can do, you can war dec the entire CFC and attempt to bring about a consequence for my posting. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2343
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:56:00 -
[103] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Over the years I have grown to hate NPC Corps and consider them a blight in our game.
To me a NPC corp should be a temporary place for a character to live whilst changing corps / selling a character / or if you plan on taking a break from Eve but do not want to stop your subscription.
I would love nothing more then NPC Characters not being able to make posts on the forum unless you are selling your character.
I would love nothing more if NPC Characters could not pick up say level 2+ missions.
I would love it if NPC characters took a huge hit in terms of cost / efficiency /refinery etc in regards to Industry and Market Jobs.
At some point CCP really need to take a good long hard look at NPC Corps because I am damn sure they did not want them to be used as they are today. And yet there isn't a single justifiable reason for any of these restrictions. Which actually demonstrates why restricting posting abilities in the greater forums from any specific group is a bad idea. One persons poor understanding of a play decision or their "feelings" about certain players in no way provides any sort of good reasoning for restricting access to the Devs or community.
My suggestion doesn't restrict access to devs or the community I specifically leave F&I, recruitment, new citizens and bazaar open. It does not prevent the ability to read threads or send eve-mail either so there is still participation in the community. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Marsha Mallow
578
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:06:00 -
[104] - Quote
Delaying new characters from posting outside of various forums and funneling them into New Citizens might not be a bad thing - it saves us answering questions we've seen a squillion times before, and it saves them having their head ripped off for making an innocently foolish remark/query/request or observation.
I'm not suggesting new players should be marginalised so the vets can disregard or stomp them, tbh I think they should be protected from the baddies and eased in more carefully. Perhaps new players need their own subforums, with gradual interraction with the wider playerbase. I've often wondered why the really obnoxious players aren't gagged when they openly smack new players who really don't deserve it a lot of the time. They should definitely be allowed to post on OOPE though, I think it's the only subforum I've ever seen dedicated to banter with residents worth bantering with. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1231
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:09:00 -
[105] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:To sell a character on the character bazaar, you must first be in an npc corporation. Otherwise, the thread is closed and we tell you why it was closed. If people could only post there with a character already in an npc corporation, it saves a step in the process and cuts down on threads that need to be closed. We don't like closing threads, but it's the rules.
Thanks for setting me straight - I've never sold a character so didn't realise this was the case. Yeah, the restriction you suggested makes perfect sense, then. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1074
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:13:00 -
[106] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:hmskrecik wrote:I believe this proposal to be wrong but I have trouble putting my finger on exactly where. Maybe the closest thing is related to: La Nariz wrote:-It provides consequences/content for actions by exposing posters to war declarations should their posts be deemed unpalatable by other players, This brings the question: are you entitled to retaliate against anyone you don't like? Please don't start with choices and consequences mantra. There are lots of actions in EVE universe which bear no consequences worth talking about. Some because of technical limitations, some because it's practically unfeasible (So, of course I can wardec CFC because I don't like this thread, right? I can imagine all you guys laughing your asses off. Now, THAT's a consequence...). If the quality of posts/threads is an actual problem either TOS/EULA should be updated or you should take a cup of HTFU all vets tend to offer anyone else around. You're asking for me to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without the peanut butter, choices and consequences are part of the driving features of the game. To answer your question, yes I am if I'm willing to make the choice to do so and handle the consequences for my actions. This all assumes following the TOS/EULA/forum rules. Yep that's exactly what you can do, you can war dec the entire CFC and attempt to bring about a consequence for my posting.
The principle of "your action have consequence" was sent into the trash can the very moment someone found out they could use alt to "protect" their main. You yourself said you were using this game play "feature" by creating awoxing alt and turning them into sellable character when they get too hot. What's the consequence of awoxing if you can get rid of the characer and then create a new one and start over with a blank rapsheet?
This drive em to the point that there is no need to enforce what you propose in this thread because it is not enforced even in the game itself. When the game stop having loopholes to dodge consequence, then it might become relevant to enforce the same thing on the forum. |
Iudicium Vastus
Incognito Holdings and Savings
262
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:15:00 -
[107] - Quote
Isn't this game about specialization. We have scout alts, PI alts, FW alts, mining alts, market alts, etc. This is a whole character slot taken up for forum purposes that I could have been using for other purposes.
Also, thinking more on the daft mantra of bringing 'consequences for actions' on the forums, I am less inclined to believe it is about consequences, and more about opening up a whole new forum related meta. A very ugly and terrible wave of silencing and censorship.
If something was done to bring forced mains to the forums, the forums would quickly devolve into nothing but preaching to the choir as only powerblocs, large pirate alliances, and the merc alliances would be heard. For example, dissenting opinions on any wardec threads would be hunted in-game and put under fairly certain long-term wardec by those already in power and force until they stopped posting on the forums. Don't make any illusions that it wouldn't happen. This is Eve we're talking about here.
The only thing that should be expanded upon for cleaning up the very few trolls around are ISD options. What are current rules anyhow for dealing with them? If a character/account is banned from the forums, is it currently also banned from game? If not, then that should be looked at. Along with a much quicker escalation from warning/infractions/bans to a full outright permaban. Troll forums, lose the entire account, including the high SP main. That's consequence, and a real deterrent from trolling. However it is not a deterrent to differing opinion, which some here are actually proposing under guise of "cleaning up the forums"
Consequence for action? Forced mains would just lead to consequence for differing perspectives. Player-on-player silencing and censorship would be the newest meta. Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW? No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too) |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2344
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:18:00 -
[108] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Delaying new characters from posting outside of various forums and funneling them into New Citizens might not be a bad thing - it saves us answering questions we've seen a squillion times before, and it saves them having their head ripped off for making an innocently foolish remark/query/request or observation.
I'm not suggesting new players should be marginalised so the vets can disregard or stomp them, tbh I think they should be protected from the baddies and eased in more carefully. Perhaps new players need their own subforums, with gradual interraction with the wider playerbase. I've often wondered why the really obnoxious players aren't gagged when they openly smack new players who really don't deserve it a lot of the time. They should definitely be allowed to post on OOPE though, I think it's the only subforum I've ever seen dedicated to banter with residents worth bantering with.
This is a pretty good idea have some sort of shunt that directs new players right to new citizens as their main page of the forums. It'd reduce their exposure to some of the decreased quality this suggestion aims to fix and take them directly to resources they can use. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2344
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: The principle of "your action have consequence" was sent into the trash can the very moment someone found out they could use alt to "protect" their main. You yourself said you were using this game play "feature" by creating awoxing alt and turning them into sellable character when they get too hot. What's the consequence of awoxing if you can get rid of the characer and then create a new one and start over with a blank rapsheet?
This drive em to the point that there is no need to enforce what you propose in this thread because it is not enforced even in the game itself. When the game stop having loopholes to dodge consequence, then it might become relevant to enforce the same thing on the forum.
I exchange all of that SP for isk and a free slot, that's the consequence of selling it. Much like my suggestion advocates that NPC alts exchange their broadened posting abilities for safety. So no you are wrong there are plenty of consequences for what I do and I would do it with my main if it wouldn't inconvenience our wonderful auth team who are always patient with the people I get from recruitment chat that get their recruitment instructions messed up. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2344
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:26:00 -
[110] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:Isn't this game about specialization. We have scout alts, PI alts, FW alts, mining alts, market alts, etc. This is a whole character slot taken up for forum purposes that I could have been using for other purposes.
Also, thinking more on the daft mantra of bringing 'consequences for actions' on the forums, I am less inclined to believe it is about consequences, and more about opening up a whole new forum related meta. A very ugly and terrible wave of silencing and censorship.
If something was done to bring forced mains to the forums, the forums would quickly devolve into nothing but preaching to the choir as only powerblocs, large pirate alliances, and the merc alliances would be heard. For example, dissenting opinions on any wardec threads would be hunted in-game and put under fairly certain long-term wardec by those already in power and force until they stopped posting on the forums. Don't make any illusions that it wouldn't happen. This is Eve we're talking about here.
The only thing that should be expanded upon for cleaning up the very few trolls around are ISD options. What are current rules anyhow for dealing with them? If a character/account is banned from the forums, is it currently also banned from game? If not, then that should be looked at. Along with a much quicker escalation from warning/infractions/bans to a full outright permaban. Troll forums, lose the entire account, including the high SP main. That's consequence, and a real deterrent from trolling. However it is not a deterrent to differing opinion, which some here are actually proposing under guise of "cleaning up the forums"
Consequence for action? Forced mains would just lead to consequence for differing perspectives. Player-on-player silencing and censorship would be the newest meta.
I don't see this slippery slope of "silencing and censorship" occurring in CAOD where my suggestion is already in place. My suggestion specifically accommodates for your doomsday scenario you presented.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5075
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:32:00 -
[111] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:What's the consequence of awoxing if you can get rid of the characer and then create a new one and start over with a blank rapsheet?
The character is a lot harder to sell for one & the new character has to be trained, plus people don't blindly trust new players like they used to. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Iudicium Vastus
Incognito Holdings and Savings
262
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:38:00 -
[112] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:
I don't see this slippery slope of "silencing and censorship" occurring in CAOD where my suggestion is already in place. My suggestion specifically accommodates for your doomsday scenario you presented.
Possibly because a larger deal of participants there are already involved with large enough entities for protection. And the other matter is that in there, there isn't very much talk about new features or balancing, in which all voices and perspectives should be represented. The theme in there are the politics to begin with, not balancing and mechanics.
As previously touched upon, I believe we should first lay out and clarify what exactly are all the tools and powers available to ISD. Then we can figure out where it is lacking and could be improved on. It is why they're here. To clean up the trolls and derailments. It's their job to enforce consequence for trolling, not ours. Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW? No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too) |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1074
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:39:00 -
[113] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Iudicium Vastus wrote:Isn't this game about specialization. We have scout alts, PI alts, FW alts, mining alts, market alts, etc. This is a whole character slot taken up for forum purposes that I could have been using for other purposes.
Also, thinking more on the daft mantra of bringing 'consequences for actions' on the forums, I am less inclined to believe it is about consequences, and more about opening up a whole new forum related meta. A very ugly and terrible wave of silencing and censorship.
If something was done to bring forced mains to the forums, the forums would quickly devolve into nothing but preaching to the choir as only powerblocs, large pirate alliances, and the merc alliances would be heard. For example, dissenting opinions on any wardec threads would be hunted in-game and put under fairly certain long-term wardec by those already in power and force until they stopped posting on the forums. Don't make any illusions that it wouldn't happen. This is Eve we're talking about here.
The only thing that should be expanded upon for cleaning up the very few trolls around are ISD options. What are current rules anyhow for dealing with them? If a character/account is banned from the forums, is it currently also banned from game? If not, then that should be looked at. Along with a much quicker escalation from warning/infractions/bans to a full outright permaban. Troll forums, lose the entire account, including the high SP main. That's consequence, and a real deterrent from trolling. However it is not a deterrent to differing opinion, which some here are actually proposing under guise of "cleaning up the forums"
Consequence for action? Forced mains would just lead to consequence for differing perspectives. Player-on-player silencing and censorship would be the newest meta. I don't see this slippery slope of "silencing and censorship" occurring in CAOD where my suggestion is already in place. My suggestion specifically accommodates for your doomsday scenario you presented.
CAOD had a reason to have those rules enforced because of what the forum is supposed to be about. Character bazar also already have restriction because of the goal of that sub forum. Cleaning GD for example won't be done by preventing people from posting unless they satisfy condition X. It will be cleaned when the god damn moderation is worth anything. Getting a post deleted because it was a troll is stupid. Let the ban hammer and the kicking boot fly with account wide suspension and you will see the troll have consequence for their trolling without having to put any limitation on legitimate players from posting.
Get rid of the trolls completely instead of just putting a stupid barrier in front of them which they can easily jump over.
Your suggestion would be skirted around by people creating the character "Troller McBadpoast" and parking him in the corp "forum shitter inc". His signature will even read "Feel free to dec our shitpoasting corp." |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2350
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:42:00 -
[114] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:La Nariz wrote:
I don't see this slippery slope of "silencing and censorship" occurring in CAOD where my suggestion is already in place. My suggestion specifically accommodates for your doomsday scenario you presented.
Possibly because a larger deal of participants there are already involved with large enough entities for protection. And the other matter is that in there, there isn't very much talk about new features or balancing, in which all voices and perspectives should be represented. The theme in there are the politics to begin with, not balancing and mechanics. As previously touched upon, I believe we should first lay out and clarify what exactly are all the tools and powers available to ISD. Then we can figure out where it is lacking and could be improved on. It is why they're here. To clean up the trolls and derailments. It's their job to enforce consequence for trolling, not ours.
Its because it hasn't happened I've watched CAOD for a long time your gloom and doom scenario has no precedence. The ISD have said before they don't ban but beyond that I have no idea. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2350
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Posted - 2014.05.17 23:44:00 -
[115] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
CAOD had a reason to have those rules enforced because of what the forum is supposed to be about. Character bazar also already have restriction because of the goal of that sub forum. Cleaning GD for example won't be done by preventing people from posting unless they satisfy condition X. It will be cleaned when the god damn moderation is worth anything. Getting a post deleted because it was a troll is stupid. Let the ban hammer and the kicking boot fly with account wide suspension and you will see the troll have consequence for their trolling without having to put any limitation on legitimate players from posting.
Get rid of the trolls completely instead of just putting a stupid barrier in front of them which they can easily jump over.
Your suggestion would be skirted around by people creating the character "Troller McBadpoast" and parking him in the corp "forum shitter inc". His signature will even read "Feel free to dec our shitpoasting corp."
Its a meaningful :effort: barrier like I said CAOD quality improved once that change was put in effect there is precedent for it working. If you have a better idea feel free to share it with us. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5080
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:47:00 -
[116] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:The ISD have said before they don't ban but beyond that I have no idea.
I can confirm this. Everytime I've been banned from the forums it was handed down by CCP. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Iudicium Vastus
Incognito Holdings and Savings
262
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:47:00 -
[117] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:
Its because it hasn't happened I've watched CAOD for a long time your gloom and doom scenario has no precedence. The ISD have said before they don't ban but beyond that I have no idea.
Bolded for emphasis, on the fact that is what may need to be looked at and changed then. I would hope you would agree, that it truly is a moderating entity's job and position to enforce, clean, and provide consequence for bad/troll posting, rather than ours. Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW? No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too) |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2350
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:50:00 -
[118] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:La Nariz wrote:
Its because it hasn't happened I've watched CAOD for a long time your gloom and doom scenario has no precedence. The ISD have said before they don't ban but beyond that I have no idea.
Bolded for emphasis, on the fact that is what may need to be looked at and changed then. I would hope you would agree, that it truly is a moderating entity's job and position to enforce, clean, and provide consequence for bad/troll posting, rather than ours.
As long as we have IA to audit what they do that sounds like a good idea to me. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1074
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 23:58:00 -
[119] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
CAOD had a reason to have those rules enforced because of what the forum is supposed to be about. Character bazar also already have restriction because of the goal of that sub forum. Cleaning GD for example won't be done by preventing people from posting unless they satisfy condition X. It will be cleaned when the god damn moderation is worth anything. Getting a post deleted because it was a troll is stupid. Let the ban hammer and the kicking boot fly with account wide suspension and you will see the troll have consequence for their trolling without having to put any limitation on legitimate players from posting.
Get rid of the trolls completely instead of just putting a stupid barrier in front of them which they can easily jump over.
Your suggestion would be skirted around by people creating the character "Troller McBadpoast" and parking him in the corp "forum shitter inc". His signature will even read "Feel free to dec our shitpoasting corp."
Its a meaningful :effort: barrier like I said CAOD quality improved once that change was put in effect there is precedent for it working. If you have a better idea feel free to share it with us.
Harsher account wide moderation. Don't probate/ban the toon but do it on the account level. The stupid people will either be gone or have to PLEX more and more account to keep trolling.
The current moderation is bad because the ISD have no efficient tools and the enforcement of the rules is never harsh. Even thread created by CCP in F/I can loose pages after pages of post because people were shitting them up and you still see the same stuff posted over and over again. Why aren't those poster just gone?
@ISDs : To be clear, I am not saying you are not doing your job, I am saying your mandate and powers are not correct for the actual cleaning to happen. |
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1481
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 03:58:00 -
[120] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:~Stuff about Character Bazaar rules and their enforcement~ There is something in the works to completely overhaul character sales. I am being vague because I have no details, but rest assured, the ad-hoc Character Bazaar has its days numbered.
Frostys Virpio wrote: Harsher account wide moderation. Don't probate/ban the toon but do it on the account level. The stupid people will either be gone or have to PLEX more and more account to keep trolling.
The current moderation is bad because the ISD have no efficient tools and the enforcement of the rules is never harsh. Even thread created by CCP in F/I can loose pages after pages of post because people were shitting them up and you still see the same stuff posted over and over again. Why aren't those poster just gone?
@ISDs : To be clear, I am not saying you are not doing your job, I am saying your mandate and powers are not correct for the actual cleaning to happen.
Banning and account-wide actions are completely out of ISD territory. Here is what we as ISD can do:
- Lock/unlock threads
- Edit posts that only partially break the rules
- Delete posts that entirely break the rules
- Delete threads that are so bad even the memory of them has no value (e.g. RMT ads, botting guides)
- Be helpful, spread awareness of the rules, and support constructive discussion
- Contact CCP for everything else
Tools to track repeat offenders are poor/nonexistent, so banning mostly comes from one ISD thinking "huh, I've seen a lot of crap from this one poster" or "wow, that is spectacularly awful on a new level", pointing it out to the CCP Community Team, then the Community Team acting on it as appropriate (and as detailed in the "Reprimand Policy" section of the forum rules).
Basically everything is managed by hand, and the hands are few and working based on very limited information. If you would like to help, please make reports of rule-breaking as detailed as possible. Letting us know via a report that someone is being a recurring problem makes it much more likely someone will look into the problem poster.
Oh, and quick note: URLs in reports are bad. All the text in a report after a "?" is truncated for some reason, so all we ever see is "https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx", which is not useful at all. ISD LackOfFaith Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums. |
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