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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Abla Tive
Serpent.Sisters.of.Eve
58
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Posted - 2014.05.18 00:36:00 -
[451] - Quote
The EvE economy just got a lot less efficient.
This may be a good thing.
Freighter pilots just got an enormous buff.
Slower aligns and smaller holds will require more money per jump and more trips to move the same amount of stuff.
Jita got double nerfed. (first with the scrap metal nerf/ compressed ore buff and now with the freighter nerf.)
Moving stuff around is therefore more expense and that makes the economy less efficient.
I wonder if this is a stealth attempt to break up the single central hub on the Chinese server.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21859
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Posted - 2014.05.18 00:37:00 -
[452] - Quote
Axe Coldon wrote:What I don't get is why is a cargo nerf necessary to this change. Because you'd be able to get too much cargo space otherwise. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kaahles
Jion Keanturi
29
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Posted - 2014.05.18 00:39:00 -
[453] - Quote
Axe Coldon wrote: A RHEA with 2 t2 rigs and no nerf would have been over 500k. So for those willing to spend the bucks they could move sov upgrades
Ever thought about the fact that the sov upgrades might be designed to not fit into a JF? |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1511
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 00:39:00 -
[454] - Quote
Axe Coldon wrote:What I don't get is why is a cargo nerf necessary to this change.
Daichi Yamato wrote:Batolemaeus wrote:baltec1 wrote:[
Its to stop us shipping capitals into jita. Increasing repackaged values of capital ships and sov upgrade mods is one sql query away. so why not just allow freighters to carry 20mil m3 and make repackaged capitals 21mil m3? Because theres a point where logistics becomes too easy and transforms competition from effort and risk taking to simply having a skillbook trained or not. With across the board increases to capacity with no trade offs, importing items becomes easier, safer and faster, and that means it becomes cheaper. Prices level across the galaxy which means the rewards are less for anyone who does any work. its a nerf to ppl who set up shop in a certain location to build and sell certain items. its a nerf to ppl who pay attention and use escorts when they haul. its a nerf to inter-regional traders. the real beneficiaries of making all this easier to do is ppl who dnt really pay attention to where they set up shop, cant be bothered to check regional prices and afk haul. you want things to be harder, because u want to be rewarded for ur efforts and u want ur competition to lose out for being lazy or dying in a fire because hes bad at space ships.
that and the fact u could carry capitals into hi-sec. And t1 rigs also exist for ur freighters btw. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
142
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Posted - 2014.05.18 00:39:00 -
[455] - Quote
I'm going to side on the "what the ****" side of this argument. You could have just made packaged capitals unhaulable rather then nerfing freighters/JF down to where the whole rig announcement is almost useless. Yes, overall they got a 'bonus', but a few % AFTER they apply the new rigs isn't a bonus, it's a slap in the face to those who pilot these ships.
Disapprove =/ Dear lord, please help me deal with the insufferable.... |
Kristalll
Valkyrie Professional Resources
273
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 00:46:00 -
[456] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Cyran Reinhard wrote:Well, Jump Freighters are meant to jump....if you aren't Jumping, why do you have a JF? Because they have more EHP and travel faster than a normal freighter, both of which improve survival chances by a fair amount. They also don't sucker you into filling up on too much valuables, which is a bonus since it lets those main traits work their magic. Actually, when I run the numbers (from the OP, which curiously enough don't always agree with EFT or Pyfa), it's not quite as bad as feared.
They also cost 6x as much, GREATLY increasing your chances of gank.
The EHP difference doesn't mean anything to the people that can do freighter ganking, and your speed won't save you from the bumping Mach.
GÇ£Die tryingGÇ¥ is the proudest human thing. |
Kristalll
Valkyrie Professional Resources
273
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Posted - 2014.05.18 00:47:00 -
[457] - Quote
Spectre Wraith wrote:I'm going to side on the "what the ****" side of this argument. You could have just made packaged capitals unhaulable rather then nerfing freighters/JF down to where the whole rig announcement is almost useless. Yes, overall they got a 'bonus', but a few % AFTER they apply the new rigs isn't a bonus, it's a slap in the face to those who pilot these ships.
Disapprove =/
Well **** balancing I guess.
Reducing the cargo capacity had nothing to do with hauling capitals, it had everything to do with balance.
Now instead of getting cargo capacity and tank, you get to choose which one you want more at a sacrifice to the other. Y'know...like fit a ship for a purpose. GÇ£Die tryingGÇ¥ is the proudest human thing. |
TehCloud
Mastercard. Swipe Here
231
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Posted - 2014.05.18 00:49:00 -
[458] - Quote
Steijn wrote:sorry, but that is nothing more than a massive nerf.
This is exactly what freighter pilots asking for rigs wanted. Well then again, they of course wanted rigs and no drawbacks. But people told them what would happen if they kept asking for it :D Now here we have it. I like the changes. Can't wait for the tiers of people fitting 3 Cargorigs and getting suicided then complaining, that freighters need more tank. My Condor costs less than that module! |
Digger Pollard
Why So Platypus
0
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Posted - 2014.05.18 00:50:00 -
[459] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Steijn wrote:sorry, but that is nothing more than a massive nerf. +1 massively nerfed. My freighter alt is going for unsub. Probably the same for my friend's acc who were training for JF. "Player Ignorance Happens" (c). FTFY, Fozzie just gave most risk-averse gankers what they asked for.
FTFY.
Freighter was already too vulnerable, now it's even more vulnerable, hauls less, and costs another freighter to make it just a bit less terrible and still a lot worse than it were. Every time Fozzie touches industry, this happens. I've been unsubbed for months after he went bull-in-the-china-shop over mining, now that I subbed back to look at Kronos, it turns out I stepped into some big pile of Fozzie again.
No wonder those changes announcement was withheld till two weeks before release, because that is seriously atrocious. At least rebalance of deep space transport ships were useless - in a sense that those ships weren't cost-efficient anyway, so nobody cared about them, but freighters are different story, they have no alternatives, and now we don't have freighters either, because hair-thin line of imaginary risk which prevented people from ganking freighters by crimeflag cooldown just went razorblade-thin. If somebody pulls down his pants and drops another Fozzie on it, in form of tiniest gankship buff, and poof, you lose $60 and you have absolutely nothing you could've done about it,except maybe making 10 runs in a tanked orca with even worse agility than current freighters (and by freighters I mean freighter, because pretty much everything but Obelisk is a gank-on-sight), which would've taken about 2 forevers and 1 ever of your time, depriving you from any chance to finish hauling before seeing your grandchildren.
I'd say it's another milking scheme to trick people into making orca alts, as after this change orca will remain the only hauler not covered in Fozzie, but since orca rebalance is on the table, and it's probably lets-hit-the-dead-dog-called-mining-again-by-nerfing-retriever-and-mack-to-useless Fozzie is doing it, I'd say the orca will be hit so hard that we'll be left with no haulers - hisec nerf will be completed, and the only trade routes left will be those of sov null, where everyone is blue to each other and no unreported gankers within 15 systems are present.
Well, Fozzie happens. |
Kristalll
Valkyrie Professional Resources
273
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Posted - 2014.05.18 00:54:00 -
[460] - Quote
Rittel wrote:Can you not just give freighters a sub-system slot with the option between 3 systems based around Cargo, Agility and Tank?
That way we can have the choice to fit how we see fit without having to rip out 2 T2 rigs or buy a whole new freighter!
Yes, lets jsut make all rigs removable while we're at it. GÇ£Die tryingGÇ¥ is the proudest human thing. |
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Maxdig
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
0
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Posted - 2014.05.18 00:58:00 -
[461] - Quote
Just because I was told nobody has said it; I don't believe it but more crying wont help so:
"gee this is awesome!" |
Hauling Hyena
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
3
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Posted - 2014.05.18 00:59:00 -
[462] - Quote
Attention, please welcome sarcasm on the stage!
Maxdig wrote:"gee this is awesome!" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21859
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:12:00 -
[463] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:They also cost 6x as much, GREATLY increasing your chances of gank. Not particularly greatly unless someone is specifically out to hurt your wallet rather than pad their own.
I mean, sure, I hear the argument a lot and it makes sense, but it requires a very different and much rarer intention on the gankers' part, so it's not nearly as bad as it's often made out to be.
Digger Pollard wrote:Freighter was already too vulnerable, now it's even more vulnerable, hauls less, and costs another freighter to make it just a bit less terrible and still a lot worse than it were. Nah. They weren't particularly vulnerable to begin with and now they can be made very sturdy indeed. The entire point with this change, as the proponents so often pointed out, is that now you get to choose what it will be good at. Making them less vulnerable is one of those options. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3145
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:13:00 -
[464] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Rittel wrote:Can you not just give freighters a sub-system slot with the option between 3 systems based around Cargo, Agility and Tank?
That way we can have the choice to fit how we see fit without having to rip out 2 T2 rigs or buy a whole new freighter!
Yes, lets jsut make all rigs removable while we're at it.
This would have far-reaching implications that would need them all to be balanced downwards. Rigs are meant to be permanent design choices of the ship you are flying.
I would agree that wanting the best of both worlds, and the drawbacks of neither, does seem to be a common theme in this thread though. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Rockstara
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
35
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:13:00 -
[465] - Quote
wow.
This is a terrible balance. I expect better from fozzie. |
El Space Mariachi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
92
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:21:00 -
[466] - Quote
yessss go- i mean CCP Fozzie, nerf the freighter EHP! We here at Finkelberg, Weinstein and Associates' Freighter Asset Repossession Team thank you for your good work. You're a true edel mensch. Hope you got the kickback slider we sent as thanks!
Heh heh heh.... all according to keikaku . |
Ersahi Kir
Fault Line Industries
390
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:27:00 -
[467] - Quote
Without a low slot this update is nothing but herp a derp.
I am actually embarrassed for the balance team. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21859
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:33:00 -
[468] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:Without a low slot this update is nothing but herp a derp.
I am actually embarrassed for the balance team. Why would you want to see them even more nerfed than this? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Aram Kachaturian
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
58
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:37:00 -
[469] - Quote
Solid balance, thanks CCP.
This fanfest was one of the best and the company seems stronger than ever.
Cant wait the new skins for freighters ;-) !
Official Poster:-áhttp://i.imgur.com/oTdKSTi.jpg (Limited stock, contact me to order) |
It Maybeatrap
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:38:00 -
[470] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ersahi Kir wrote:Without a low slot this update is nothing but herp a derp.
I am actually embarrassed for the balance team. Why would you want to see them even more nerfed than this? Next change: Freighters get +1 low slot and lose 80% hull hp. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21859
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 01:42:00 -
[471] - Quote
It Maybeatrap wrote:Next change: Freighters get +1 low slot and lose 80% hull hp.
80% would probably be overkill, but since even a T1 suitcase doubles your hull EHP, a reduction in the 50% region wouldn't be at all surprising. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Ironathel
Lost Society Get Off My Lawn
3
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:42:00 -
[472] - Quote
I'm going to preface this by saing that I generally don't complain about all the rebalancing and tweaks that cpp make, at least they are trying to make the game more interesting.
But I'm afraid I can't say I share the same view with these changes. Lets just take a reality check here - these are ships used to haul crap from A to B they are not some OP combat machine. It is probably the most boring and pointless part of the game - I'd challenge ccp to demonstrate how any of this actually adds value to a players experience more than any other activity they could be doing with their time. The reality is you either have a bunch of people wasting their time manually flying or an army of afk autopiloting toons slowly migrating between trade hubs in hisec. At the end of the day what does any of this activity achieve for the game - not much as far as I'm concerned.
So basically all I see from these changes is I get to spend more isk using more jump fuel, moving smaller amounts of m3, in an even more expensive ship and taking longer to do it.... there are some stats Fozzie seems to have forgotten in the equation ... boredom +10%, time wasting +5%, fun -5% ...
Why would I continue to pay for my sub when I'm getting to spend less time actually doing something fun? At this rate I might as well go buy train simulator or something and be done with it.
Just my 2 cents.
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2240
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:44:00 -
[473] - Quote
Kaahles wrote:And for JF's? TBH those nerfs don't go far enough as far as I am concerned because if you have half a functioning brain and know how the game works the likelyhood of losing your JF is pretty damn slim to almost nonexistent. Breaks the whole risk vs reward thing.
Everyone loves to throw around Risk vs reward like they know wtf they are talking about.
There is more to risk than just how easy or hard it is to die.
Everytime I undock a JF I am putting a 6.2 bil hull at risk. That alone is a pretty big risk.
When I run a 0.0 jump freighter contract I could easily have upwards of 5bil of cargo in the hold. Thats 11.5 Billion isk I'm putting at risk jumping into hostile 0.0 space.
And for what? Maybe a 150-200mil reward? I'd be hard pressed to believe that anyone actually doing this is sitting there thinking "oh yea this is totally OP, I should be easier to kill"
Yes if I do everything right my overall risk of death is fairly low. Yet there are still thousands that get killed. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1074
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 01:52:00 -
[474] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It Maybeatrap wrote:Next change: Freighters get +1 low slot and lose 80% hull hp. 80% would probably be overkill, but since even a T1 suitcase doubles your hull EHP, a reduction in the 50% region wouldn't be at all surprising.
Buying and fitting a DCU would not be as hard of a cost hit as fitting 2 capital rig...
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1074
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 02:00:00 -
[475] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Kristalll wrote:Rittel wrote:Can you not just give freighters a sub-system slot with the option between 3 systems based around Cargo, Agility and Tank?
That way we can have the choice to fit how we see fit without having to rip out 2 T2 rigs or buy a whole new freighter!
Yes, lets jsut make all rigs removable while we're at it. This would have far-reaching implications that would need them all to be balanced downwards. Rigs are meant to be permanent design choices of the ship you are flying. I would agree that wanting the best of both worlds, and the drawbacks of neither, does seem to be a common theme in this thread though.
The issue I personally see with the change is to integrate some options, they pretty much jacked the price of freighter/JF up a lot. If they had went with 2 low slots limited to only bulkhead, inertia stab and cargo expander, they would introduce pretty much the same choice (tank/agility/cargo) without needed to slap hundred of millions worth of rigs on them. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1511
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 02:01:00 -
[476] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Tippia wrote:It Maybeatrap wrote:Next change: Freighters get +1 low slot and lose 80% hull hp. 80% would probably be overkill, but since even a T1 suitcase doubles your hull EHP, a reduction in the 50% region wouldn't be at all surprising. Buying and fitting a DCU would not be as hard of a cost hit as fitting 2 capital rig...
no, where in lies the opposite problem. doubling ur tank for next to nothing.
it would take a much greater shift of HP's from structure into shield and armour to stop the DC from being stupidly powerful. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Ben Hatton
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.05.18 02:06:00 -
[477] - Quote
Cool so, um, can you forget we ever asked for rigs or to be able to modify our freighters and lets just keep what we have? Please?
Cool thanks |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1074
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 02:14:00 -
[478] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Tippia wrote:It Maybeatrap wrote:Next change: Freighters get +1 low slot and lose 80% hull hp. 80% would probably be overkill, but since even a T1 suitcase doubles your hull EHP, a reduction in the 50% region wouldn't be at all surprising. Buying and fitting a DCU would not be as hard of a cost hit as fitting 2 capital rig... no, where in lies the opposite problem. doubling ur tank for next to nothing. it would take a much greater shift of HP's from structure into shield and armour to stop the DC from being stupidly powerful.
If your hull HP take a 50% hit with the addition of low slot, a DCU barely give you anymore HP in the form of resist to armor and shield. I definitely don't think it should get a low slot at no cost. |
Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
142
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 02:20:00 -
[479] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Spectre Wraith wrote:I'm going to side on the "what the ****" side of this argument. You could have just made packaged capitals unhaulable rather then nerfing freighters/JF down to where the whole rig announcement is almost useless. Yes, overall they got a 'bonus', but a few % AFTER they apply the new rigs isn't a bonus, it's a slap in the face to those who pilot these ships.
Disapprove =/ Well **** balancing I guess. Reducing the cargo capacity had nothing to do with hauling capitals, it had everything to do with balance. Now instead of getting cargo capacity and tank, you get to choose which one you want more at a sacrifice to the other. Y'know...like fit a ship for a purpose.
You say that, yet in the same post they list the cargo reduction, they make note of increasing packaged capitals. Hauling capitals was infact a consideration to this cargo reduction. Dear lord, please help me deal with the insufferable.... |
Emizeko Chai
Freight Club The Marmite Collective
34
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Posted - 2014.05.18 02:23:00 -
[480] - Quote
beerthief wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values.
CCP Fozzie wrote: and with T1 cargo rigs their cargo holds will be between 4 and 7% smaller than current.
one of these is not like the other
Your first quote is referring to T1 freighters. Your second quote is referring to T2 jump freighters. |
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