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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Kelsi Monroe
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.05.18 02:24:00 -
[481] - Quote
I knew this was happening as I started this character today to use her as a freighter alt.
Jesus this is dumb and anyone thinking this was going to be well received by players should be ashamed. like if spending 1.4b in the most boring ship in game wasn-¦t enough now I have to pay 1b more to make it usefull.
Thanks CCP, good job.
You still rememer that this is a game and all the aspects of it should be fun, or at least not boring as hell, don-¦t you? |
Simulacrum Clone
Imperial Task Force
1
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Posted - 2014.05.18 02:26:00 -
[482] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone, here's the skinny on the rebalance to Freighters and Jump Freighters. As we announced at the Fanfest keynote, a big part of this rebalance is the ability to use rigs.
To compensate for the ability to use rigs, the base capacity of all Freighters and Jump Freighters is going down, by between 27 and 30%.
[...]
Base HP is dropping on all of these ships, but by a much smaller percentage than cargo. They are gaining armor and shield, and losing some hull. This is especially noticeable on the JFs, which are now getting racial T2 resists to armor and shield at the same level as Marauders. The extra resists mean that Jump Freighters end up with about the same EHP as before.
[...]
Let us know what you think! I think you are either morons or just hate certain playstyles in EVE; maybe both. It will now cost more for freighter pilots to have what they had before (same freighter cost + rigs) but gankers will be happier, because killing freighter pilots won't cost any extra and might cost less.
If you had any sincere compassion for freighter pilots, and a higher intelligence for customer satisfaction, you would have left the stats alone, but included 3 rigs for standard freighters, two for jump freighters and included one high, medium and low slot.
Every aspect of this game I've once enjoyed, you've managed to nerf. For quite some time you've made this game not worth paying real money for. I've been hanging on with PLEX. This imbecile nerf was unnecessary. You have lost me as a customer. The last subscription on my three accounts ends on May 30.
If your goal is simply to lose subscribers who don't PvP and enjoy large NullSec alliances, then congratulations; that is what you're accomplishing. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21863
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Posted - 2014.05.18 02:33:00 -
[483] - Quote
Simulacrum Clone wrote:If you had any sincere compassion for freighter pilots, and a higher intelligence for customer satisfaction, you would have left the stats alone, but included 3 rigs for standard freighters, two for jump freighters and included one high, medium and low slot. So now GǣcompassionGǣ and GǣintelligenceGǥ has been synonymous with Gǣthrowing balance out the windowGǥ and Gǣmaking changes without any concern for the repercussionsGǥ. InterestingGǪ
Wilfully breaking the game doesn't seem particularly compassionate or intelligent. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
416
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Posted - 2014.05.18 02:39:00 -
[484] - Quote
Normally I am all about how Eve is a harsh, dark universe where death and mayhem lurk around every corner, but some things in life just suck. Logistics is one of those things. If I had a forty right now, I'd pour some out for all the freighter and jump freighter pilots who got kicked in the crotch today.
This whole thing reminds me of the poor crippled kid joke. He's walking along with one arm all crippled and crooked and the other nice and strong and straight. He sees a church, goes inside and prays devoutly, "Dear Lord, please make both my arms the same." Our omniscient Creator hears his plea and promptly grants his wish. The kid now has two crippled and crooked arms. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Emizeko Chai
Freight Club The Marmite Collective
34
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Posted - 2014.05.18 02:40:00 -
[485] - Quote
Buzz Dura wrote:for those who missed some figures...
This chart lists the Charon and Obelisk twice, and doesn't list the Fenrir or the Providence at all. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3622
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Posted - 2014.05.18 02:46:00 -
[486] - Quote
I was looking forward to the ADDED CHOICE these changes would bring, but instead they REMOVE CHOICE
Pre-Kronos Charon: 785,000 Post-Kronos Charon: 550,000
Post-Kronos Rigs: Rig 1: No choice - Capital Cargohold Optimization II (20% for 660,000), -150 Calibration Rig 2: No choice - Capital Cargohold Optimization II (20% for 792,000), -150 Calibration Rig 3: Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I, -50 Calibration Cost: 1.45 billion ISK at current market prices [likely higher post-Kronos]
Can't fit a structure rig as it will reduce cargohold /facepalm |
Sturmwolke
568
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Posted - 2014.05.18 02:49:00 -
[487] - Quote
About 37.5% extra mass on the Obelisk? Not enough. Double or triple it please
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Neoxan
WALLTREIPERS The Initiative.
1
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Posted - 2014.05.18 02:51:00 -
[488] - Quote
You Fozzie clearly have no clue about rebalancing freighters, In any case they need to stay as they are now and give them the rigs, you can perfectly gank them with 15-20 catalyst, they are killing freighters with 300m in the cargo nowadays, because the useless soundwave make the security status useless with the tags, you can gank everythin so easily, cause ive been in both sides, ganking and moving freighters and i can tell you that if freighters needed something is a low slot, not useless rigs who make your ship role static and if you want to achieve something, cargo, tank or speed, at best you can get what you had before, you fozzie are bad, really bad please stick to pvp ships and let the people who knows industry as ytterbium do it. |
Marcus Gord
Stormcrows
52630
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:01:00 -
[489] - Quote
so the post Kronos Charon will have less cargo at freighter 5 than the Fenrir gets right now, with freighter 0.
this smells rotten.
You can't take the sky from me
".....Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well....." |
Demonica Mortis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:08:00 -
[490] - Quote
Gamberone wrote:This change is stupid. You don't need to change anything on the JF to allow cargo rigs. Increasing the size of capitals and station freight containers makes sense.
CCP Fozzie are you saying here that JF's were OP? Why do they need this Nerf, please explain.
I agree; they shouldn't nerf the cargo capacity of the JF.
It's almost disingenuous; the very hull and structure of the ship itself IS the cargo bay.
I hope between now and the Summer that they re-allocate the characteristics of the JF to allow for player to up-armor the thing with low slots, or mid-slots for shields. Anything, but don't nerf the sine qua non of the class of ship, which is the ability to HAUL things. Please. |
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Demonica Mortis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:09:00 -
[491] - Quote
Demonica Mortis wrote:Gamberone wrote:This change is stupid. You don't need to change anything on the JF to allow cargo rigs. Increasing the size of capitals and station freight containers makes sense.
CCP Fozzie are you saying here that JF's were OP? Why do they need this Nerf, please explain. I agree; they shouldn't nerf the cargo capacity of the JF. It's almost disingenuous; the very hull and structure of the ship itself IS the cargo bay. I hope between now and the Summer that they re-allocate the characteristics of the JF to allow for player to up-armor the thing with low slots, or mid-slots for shields. Anything, but don't nerf the sine qua non of the class of ship, which is the ability to HAUL things. Please.
It's almost as if they're using this as an opportunity to "give back" what you've already had in your ship, but now you have to PAY to gain that old ability.
Is it intended to be an ISK sink?! |
Demonica Mortis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:13:00 -
[492] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:I was looking forward to the ADDED CHOICE these changes would bring, but instead they REMOVE CHOICEPre-Kronos Charon: 785,000 Post-Kronos Charon: 550,000 Post-Kronos Rigs: Rig 1: No choice - Capital Cargohold Optimization II (20% for 660,000), -150 Calibration Rig 2: No choice - Capital Cargohold Optimization II (20% for 792,000), -150 Calibration Rig 3: Limited Choice, 100 Calibration Cost: 1.45 billion ISK at current market prices [likely higher post-Kronos]Can't fit a structure rig in the optional slot, as it will reduce cargohold /facepalm The only logical possibility is a Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I or II.
WHY should ships that large...be limited to only three (3) rig slots? Seriously. Why not allow ships of that size class five (5) rig slots?
Let us outfit and customize our beloved freighters. Let us at least make an attempt to outfit them versus ganking. Give us some REAL options, please. Pretty please. |
Axe Coldon
Coldon Enterprises Axion Bionics
30
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:17:00 -
[493] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Axe Coldon wrote:What I don't get is why is a cargo nerf necessary to this change. Because you'd be able to get too much cargo space otherwise.
That is absurd. Nerf the normal freighters cargo I don't care. but getting 500k in a jf is not too much.
Its like CCP is trying to force us into building in null. Its a sandbox. Where we build should be up to us. Not make draconian changes so we have to follow their idea of where and how industry should be conducted.
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Demonica Mortis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:18:00 -
[494] - Quote
Marcus Gord wrote:so the post Kronos Charon will have less cargo at freighter 5 than the Fenrir gets right now, with freighter 0.
this smells rotten.
What we need is a consortium of players who can put forward proposals advocating changes (buffs/nerfs) to freighters. Buffs. In other words, the experts in the field--those who live and breath these classes of ships.
Also, anyone on CCP who, in their heart, can be an ADVOCATE of haulers. And the players who represent what is best of the haulers should be in contact with his counterpart (the "Hauler Ombudsman," let's say) who can together propose changes to that class of ships. Right now, it feels that nobody is defending our interests.
What say ye?
Let's recommend an Ombudsman. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:19:00 -
[495] - Quote
I dont get why everyone is so upset, this is EXACTLY what you argue for, when arguing for streamlining and balance.
A dull game where you have none of those. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3435
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 03:19:00 -
[496] - Quote
I am quite sure they were not nerfed to make room for the rigs. Those were just an afterthought to sell the straight up nerf of the freighters that were considered too good at what they were doing. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
53
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:20:00 -
[497] - Quote
OK, I am trying to be nice, thoughtful and concise
I even made a spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TYU__8DwIT0Qa7NphPZnDCOhGpzIKJ2aEd-k3EOUHu0/edit?usp=sharing
The biggest qualm I have with all of this is the efficiency of a JF
If you look at the isotope per M3 for each JF, they all got a boost, except the Rhea, it numbers are almost stagnant. Personally, I would like to see fuel burn normalized, but not nerfing the cargo nearly as much would also be an outcome I would scream about.
I also added in the additional fuel burn and it get even more skewed
I'm not saying not to do the change, just wondering why the Rhea took such a large (87,000m3) hit when the rest took a much smaller (75,000 - 78,000m3) hit |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1368
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:21:00 -
[498] - Quote
The tears in this thread are almost as delicious as being able to make a freighter have a better tank. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
216
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:24:00 -
[499] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Normally I am all about how Eve is a harsh, dark universe where death and mayhem lurk around every corner, but some things in life just suck. Logistics is one of those things. If I had a forty right now, I'd pour some out for all the freighter and jump freighter pilots who got kicked in the crotch today.
This whole thing reminds me of the poor crippled kid joke. He's walking along with one arm all crippled and crooked and the other nice and strong and straight. He sees a church, goes inside and prays devoutly, "Dear Lord, please make both my arms the same." Our omniscient Creator hears his plea and promptly grants his wish. The kid now has two crippled and crooked arms.
^^THIS^^ A Thousand times this! |
Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
117
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:26:00 -
[500] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Simulacrum Clone wrote:If you had any sincere compassion for freighter pilots, and a higher intelligence for customer satisfaction, you would have left the stats alone, but included 3 rigs for standard freighters, two for jump freighters and included one high, medium and low slot. So now GǣcompassionGǣ and GǣintelligenceGǥ has been synonymous with Gǣthrowing balance out the windowGǥ and Gǣmaking changes without any concern for the repercussionsGǥ. InterestingGǪ Wilfully breaking the game doesn't seem particularly compassionate or intelligent. Of course, the real problem here is that the intelligent thing to do would have been to ignore all the requests for fitting options on freighters, but unfortunately the devs are if anything too compassionate and just wanted to give these players what they had been begging for for so long.
Pretty much. Everyone who wanted rigs or fittings for Freighter / JF are dumb imo. They are perfectly balanced the way they are now. |
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Saint Hecate
Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn
9
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:44:00 -
[501] - Quote
I personally feel like these changes are a bit heavy handed. The jump freighters especially bother me. As with those changes, almost every aspect of the freighter is reduced. Having the option to rig the ships allows for some customization but at the end of the day, all the rigs do is Maybe bring ONE of the freighter back to its previous stats with little to no net positive :/. So i could restore part of my Cargo capacity at the cost of losing a large chunk of my EHP AND still having the nerf to align time.
I think its good if the freighters are toned back a bit but not to such a heavy degree. For example instead of reducing the Ark's cargo bay by 76000. Reduce it by 40000. That way if you rig for cargo you will have a reasonable net positive which may out way the negative of losing so much EHP. I think the biggest problem I have with the changes is that it feel like you lose out pretty heavily no matter what rigs you use. Seems almost more worthwhile to leave it unrigged and hemorrhage your losses.
I think it would be cool if you could introduce freighter specific rigs that do interesting things that may alter decision making/gameplay. I always liked the idea of a JF rig that would increase Jump range by 15% but if you are utilizing that range it would also have a 25% increased fuel cost for the extra distance traveled. So if say I jump to a beacon that is 10 LYs away im still within the standard range of the freighter so i dont receive the fuel penalty but say I jump to a beacon 13 LY away, because im utilizing the extra range I eat the 25% fuel penalty for the extra 3 LY used.
I also feel like this change is aimed pretty heavily towards incentivizing nullsec industry over importing which I suppose is a healthy thing for the game considering that by importing everything it leaves a lot of players in nullsec without anything to build.
Id say tweak the numbers some more so that the player doesnt feel like they are losing out on all sides regardless of what rig you pick. Im completely okay with the ships power being reduced I just dont want to feel like im losing out so much.
I am no expert on balance nor am I very good at trying to come up with solutions to EVE many many complex systems, I usually leave that to other people that are far smarter than I haha but I feel very strongly about this subject and I want to try and offer some constructive criticism.
Thanks for your time Saint
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Axe Coldon
Coldon Enterprises Axion Bionics
30
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:45:00 -
[502] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Kaahles wrote:And for JF's? TBH those nerfs don't go far enough as far as I am concerned because if you have half a functioning brain and know how the game works the likelyhood of losing your JF is pretty damn slim to almost nonexistent. Breaks the whole risk vs reward thing. Everyone loves to throw around Risk vs reward like they know wtf they are talking about. There is more to risk than just how easy or hard it is to die. Everytime I undock a JF I am putting a 6.2 bil hull at risk. That alone is a pretty big risk. When I run a 0.0 jump freighter contract I could easily have upwards of 5bil of cargo in the hold. Thats 11.5 Billion isk I'm putting at risk jumping into hostile 0.0 space. And for what? Maybe a 150-200mil reward? I'd be hard pressed to believe that anyone actually doing this is sitting there thinking "oh yea this is totally OP, I should be easier to kill" Yes if I do everything right my overall risk of death is fairly low. Yet there are still thousands that get killed.
I agree. I think most that think this is great is because they are planning to kill jf's not fly them. If you make 100mil fee per trip its 60 trips to break even if you die..it will be 75 after if yoiu have t2 rigs.
Its a big oh well. If ccp sticks to their guns we live with it and life goes on. but they ask for feedback.so hope they rethink part of this. |
Draconus Lofwyr
UK Corp RAZOR Alliance
102
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:49:00 -
[503] - Quote
Allison A'vani wrote:Tippia wrote:Simulacrum Clone wrote:If you had any sincere compassion for freighter pilots, and a higher intelligence for customer satisfaction, you would have left the stats alone, but included 3 rigs for standard freighters, two for jump freighters and included one high, medium and low slot. So now GǣcompassionGǣ and GǣintelligenceGǥ has been synonymous with Gǣthrowing balance out the windowGǥ and Gǣmaking changes without any concern for the repercussionsGǥ. InterestingGǪ Wilfully breaking the game doesn't seem particularly compassionate or intelligent. Of course, the real problem here is that the intelligent thing to do would have been to ignore all the requests for fitting options on freighters, but unfortunately the devs are if anything too compassionate and just wanted to give these players what they had been begging for for so long. Pretty much. Everyone who wanted rigs or fittings for Freighter / JF are dumb imo. They are perfectly balanced the way they are now. This feels incarna level stupid. Might be time to purge Fozzie from the dev team and get someone new.
I am really thinking that CCP Fozzie is the most appropriate named Dev on the team, as in Fozzie bear, known for the bad jokes and dumb ideas. can someone please tell us he has been an elaborate joke on the EvE player base for the last few years?
this reminds me a LOT of the first mothership "buff" that had to be totally scrapped and rethought due to the overwhelming player outcry. |
Isky von Purps
Caldari Solutions
0
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:50:00 -
[504] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Tippia wrote:SeeGǪ there was a reason why I was against rigs on freighters from the very startGǪ T2 capital rigs and a significant reduction in survivability requried and/or speed to get them back to where they were. Gee thanks. T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values.
Oh that's nice. Do they also simultaneously bring it back to the same EHP, align time and speed too? Then will the materials needed to make a JF / F be adjusted down to cover the cost of rigs?
If the answer to either of these is No, then this is an outright nerf. At least give it the ability to run a DCU II and Bulkheads. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2241
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Posted - 2014.05.18 03:53:00 -
[505] - Quote
Saint Hecate wrote:Stuff about Jump freighters
I think you missed this key quote from #14
CCP Fozzie wrote:But yes, the fact that this is a small reduction in Jump Freighter power is completely intended. |
stoicfaux
4829
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Posted - 2014.05.18 04:04:00 -
[506] - Quote
So. We're doing this to ensure that miners deliver their ore directly from the mining ship to a PoS ore compression array, because 25 pre-nerf freighter trips to transfer enough ore bought on the market in a station to a PoS for compression to fill a JF with compressed ore wasn't enough disincentive?
I too, am underwhelmed by needing to buy capital rigs to get my Providence back where it was.
How about introducing the Providence Mk II, which can be rigged, while leaving the original Providence as is? Let new customers buy the Mk II version of the various freighters for when a "customized" freighter is needed.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3624
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Posted - 2014.05.18 04:07:00 -
[507] - Quote
As an industrialist, I find it really telling that all the proposed industry changes make me want to stop doing industry.
CCP Seagull wrote:There are some people who make things work - they pre-fit ships for a fleet op, they run mega-spreadsheets for the industry production lines needed to equip the war effort, build tools to manage a corporation or command large fleets. Their activities enable others to have fun in EVE. What we have here is a failure to communicate. |
Cloora
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
130
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Posted - 2014.05.18 04:10:00 -
[508] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Told you so. e: Dammit!! Missed by one post again.
Why the hell are you telling me this? I didn't ask for any freaking changes to my Rhea I liked it the way it was. http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
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Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
260
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Posted - 2014.05.18 04:10:00 -
[509] - Quote
Odds that Fozzie posts in or even reads this thread again after today? Near zero I would bet. |
Axe Coldon
Coldon Enterprises Axion Bionics
31
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 04:13:00 -
[510] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:I am quite sure they were not nerfed to make room for the rigs. Those were just an afterthought to sell the straight up nerf of the freighters that were considered too good at what they were doing.
Too good? you must not play the same eve as i do. Freighters are super easy to gank as it is. Now they will be worth more..and be even more of a gank target.
When pilots wanted rigs (and slots) was to get their freighter beefed up. Not to make it more expensive to fly the same thing.
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