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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Mag's
the united
17273
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:53:00 -
[901] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:If you don't know how to launder your loot with the fleet hangar in an Orca, you really shouldn't be ganking. the freighters picking up the loot are as safe as a baby in its mother womb Could you explain to me how you pick up a freight package of, let's say 200.000m3 without either your Orca or your Freighter pilot going suspect? Magic?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6357
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:53:00 -
[902] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:If you don't know how to launder your loot with the fleet hangar in an Orca, you really shouldn't be ganking. the freighters picking up the loot are as safe as a baby in its mother womb Could you explain to me how you pick up a freight package of, let's say 200.000m3 without either your Orca or your Freighter pilot going suspect?
Especially since, by definition, the gankers themselves are unable to protect their looting ship since they are all in station waiting out criminal timers. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21950
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:54:00 -
[903] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:If you don't know how to launder your loot with the fleet hangar in an Orca You mean the one that can't fit many of the things that a freighter will carry? Yeah, no. That's not a very good way of doing things. Oh and hey, it doesn't remove the risk of the freighter getting ganked by the way.
Agh. Quote limit. Let's do it this way.
Digger Pollard wrote:1. Target is a freighter - zero tanking variety. 2. It must be sitting on top of a freighter or they won't make it to counter gank. 3. Gank fleets being ganked are simply impossible 4. There are things like freight containers you can deploy from your freighter and put stuff there with another account 5. Loot fairy? You can't have it both ways in a single occurrence, but you WILL have it both ways in a long run 1. Incorrect. 2. Incorrect. 3. Incorrect. 4. Wow. Actually correct, assuming the loot is small enough, which is far from guaranteed. It doesn't remove it as a risk factor though. After all, people around here claim that freighter ganks happen for all kinds of reasonsGǪ 5. Which means it's an indisputable risk.
Quote:So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve. In other words, you are fundamentally ignorant about everything even remotely related to ganks and even more clueles about risk as a concept. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Dave Stark
5785
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:55:00 -
[904] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:If you don't know how to launder your loot with the fleet hangar in an Orca, you really shouldn't be ganking. the freighters picking up the loot are as safe as a baby in its mother womb Could you explain to me how you pick up a freight package of, let's say 200.000m3 without either your Orca or your Freighter pilot going suspect? Especially since, by definition, the gankers themselves are unable to protect their looting ship since they are all in station waiting out criminal timers. even more so that you can't even put 200k m3 in an orca.... |
Mag's
the united
17273
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:57:00 -
[905] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:If you don't know how to launder your loot with the fleet hangar in an Orca, you really shouldn't be ganking. the freighters picking up the loot are as safe as a baby in its mother womb Could you explain to me how you pick up a freight package of, let's say 200.000m3 without either your Orca or your Freighter pilot going suspect? Especially since, by definition, the gankers themselves are unable to protect their looting ship since they are all in station waiting out criminal timers. even more so that you can't even put 200k m3 in an orca.... Unless it's a magic Orca.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1539
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:57:00 -
[906] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.
u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Digger Pollard
Why So Platypus
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:57:00 -
[907] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:So tell us, how do you spot a booster ship that can be active anywhere in the system? Right after you tell us how booster ship boosts hull tank of a freighter.
...all right, I'll tell you anyway - you fit a ship scanner with a cargo scanner on your NPC scanning alt you scan freighters with. With amount of non-hull tank on a freighter, it's gotta be active all the time or it'll be too late. Not to mention that a booster will not boost freighter ehp more than 1%-2%, which is negligible. |
M'uva Wa'eva
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
32
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:58:00 -
[908] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:Did anyone take a look at that post I made a while back suggesting the use of subsystems instead of rigs? It would allow Freighters & JFs to be customized differently, permit JFs to be given rage / fuel consumption modifications without affecting any other capitals and avoid needing an across-the-board nerf to prevent freighters from over-excelling in any one area because the trade-offs are built into the subsystems.
Seems like an elegant solution to many of the concerns raised in this thread.
Yes, that's a much more elegant solution than I suggested regarding customisability via slots. I'd be very happy if it could be adopted as a route forward. Obviously it'd push the changes to freighters and jump freighters back a monthly release or two, but that would be worth it to enable a properly thought-out solution and giving pilots the true customisation that would help the humble freighter to shine. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11642
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:00:00 -
[909] - Quote
Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:baltec1 wrote:Whats with this 500,000 freighter pilots? Did you even bother to read what I said?
Also please post said empty freighters. Yes, I did indeed read what you posted earlier, and what I quoted in one of my previous posts: baltec1 wrote:We worked out that there are greater chances of you being struck by lightning in RL than getting ganked. Unless you do something silly like stuffing 10 billion in the hold. However, first things first. I am unsure whether the forum allows direct KB links from this discussion, so you will have to look up the candidates I dug out for you: KillID: 23370943, 23370340, 23342061, 23317011 and 23261890. Please let me know if you are having difficulties using these numbers, and I will try to guide you. These suicide ganks took place in Isanamo in the month of May 2014, and where the freighter was either completely empty, or very nearly so, to the point where there was no hope of making a profit from the gank. Additionally the pilots were all in NPC corporations, so these kills cannot be explained as being due to pilot error during live wardecs. There were many more ganks in Isanamo in May, but the pilot was either in a player corp, or the cargo wasn't empty. Please let me know if you are with me so far. Don't worry, we will take this in small steps, so I don't loose you along the way.
The average month sees around 30 to 40 ganks. Now, we dont work out the chance based on per pilot but per trip and we do not include people who made themselves a target by stuffing billions in the hold. There are millions of trips made by Freighters each and every month. Over the span of the last decade, taking into account the number of freighter trips made the numbers work out as being much lower than being struck by lightning. Granted you are still more likely to be ganked than win the lottery.
This is what you ignored. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21953
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:00:00 -
[910] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:Not to mention that a booster will not boost freighter ehp more than 1%-2%, which is negligible. Incorrect. Even more so with these new numbers. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6358
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:00:00 -
[911] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Unless it's a magic Orca.
That's it, I am renaming mine to Puff the Magic Orca. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11642
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:01:00 -
[912] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:baltec1 wrote:So tell us, how do you spot a booster ship that can be active anywhere in the system? Right after you tell us how booster ship boosts hull tank of a freighter. ...all right, I'll tell you anyway - you fit a ship scanner with a cargo scanner on your NPC scanning alt you scan freighters with. With amount of non-hull tank on a freighter, it's gotta be active all the time or it'll be too late. Not to mention that a booster will not boost freighter ehp more than 1%-2%, which is negligible.
So not only do you know nothing about ganking but also nothing about booster ships. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Digger Pollard
Why So Platypus
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:01:00 -
[913] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.
u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog.
Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods. You can make it less profitable, but not avoid it. Losing a freighter, even an empty one, is bad enough to call it a huge risk to pilot one. |
Dave Stark
5786
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:02:00 -
[914] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.
u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog.
so if you're playing better than a dog, the ehp nerfs shouldn't be an issue since ganks are trivial to avoid. yes? |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1079
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:04:00 -
[915] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Not to mention that a booster will not boost freighter ehp more than 1%-2%, which is negligible. Incorrect. Even more so with these new numbers.
I wonder if the best use is gonna be armor rigs + armor boost + slave set now. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21953
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:04:00 -
[916] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods. So how do you explain its monumental rarity and how people can go through their entire account lives without being victims of (or even seeing) one?
Frostys Virpio wrote:I wonder if the best use is gonna be armor rigs + armor boost + slave set now. It kind of looks like it because they're going to end up with an awful amount of armour it seems. I'm guessing that it's to slightly compensate for the assumed astronautic rig penalties, since even Caldari freighters will benefit immensely from armour boosting. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11642
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:04:00 -
[917] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.
u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog. Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods. You can make it less profitable, but not avoid it. Losing a freighter, even an empty one, is bad enough to call it a huge risk to pilot one.
30-40 ganked freighters a month out of the millions of trips made is a "huge risk". Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Narjack
CragCO
5
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:05:00 -
[918] - Quote
Not the first to suggest this in this thread but I'm ok with forcing pilots to make a choice in how they set up their ship...more tank or more cargo etc.
But for us small folk out here that don't have trillions of isk I really can't have 1 JF for tank, 1 for heavy cargo etc. Nor will I waste money ripping off rigs every time I need to change. Would rather see the ships have zero rig slots and have fitting option (a couple of low slots?) or something. Then I have to fit to mission. I'd be ok with that. |
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
42
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:05:00 -
[919] - Quote
Somehow i feel that a free for all community channel for bored gankbears in dessies are in order if this patch goes live, the tearharvesting for lost rigs and isk will be enormous.
Wonder how long hisec can burn before the obvious hits.. |
Mag's
the united
17273
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:05:00 -
[920] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods. So how do you explain its monumental rarity and how people can go through their entire account lives without being victims of (or even seeing) one? I covered this one in post 901.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
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Digger Pollard
Why So Platypus
4
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Posted - 2014.05.18 19:05:00 -
[921] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods. So how do you explain its monumental rarity and how people can go through their entire account lives without being victims of (or even seeing) one?
Somebody other than Tippia should ask me this so I could answer. |
Dave Stark
5787
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:05:00 -
[922] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Tippia wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Not to mention that a booster will not boost freighter ehp more than 1%-2%, which is negligible. Incorrect. Even more so with these new numbers. I wonder if the best use is gonna be armor rigs + armor boost + slave set now.
i think, based on quick maths and some one else's calculation of the bonus of a slave set... even a 3 trimark slave'd obelisk would have less armour HP than hull HP. there aren't even any t2 resists on an obelisk to offset that fact. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3439
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:06:00 -
[923] - Quote
Even I know how to pick up cargo from a can and warp off in the same tick, eliminating any threat from a suspect timer. Yay for counter can-flipping. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1081
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:06:00 -
[924] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.
u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog. so if you're playing better than a dog, the ehp nerfs shouldn't be an issue since ganks are trivial to avoid. yes?
Well if your dog is better than you, the ship might never undock because dogs have trouble with using mouse. If he manage to click the button, now you are **** out of luck and will die as you drift slowly away from the station because a dog definitely won't need less than a full day to select anything and then warp to is. |
Ammzi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1768
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:06:00 -
[925] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:
Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods. You can make it less profitable, but not avoid it. Losing a freighter, even an empty one, is bad enough to call it a huge risk to pilot one.
100 % impossible? I can avoid gank with minimum effort. I can avoid almost all ganks with more effort. And webbing is only one of like 10 different tools you can use to protect your freighter. Alas people who think "My freighter is empty, therefore I should INVULNVERABLE!" are so utterly wrong. If people want to kill you for any reason what-so-ever they can probably muster the effort to do so. And if you know they are coming for you, you can prepare yourselves in a variety of ways.
There is no mother-of-all counter, on both sides. That's how it works. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1081
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:07:00 -
[926] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:Tippia wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods. So how do you explain its monumental rarity and how people can go through their entire account lives without being victims of (or even seeing) one? Somebody other than Tippia should ask me this so I could answer.
So how do you explain its monumental rarity and how people can go through their entire account lives without being victims of (or even seeing) one? |
Dave Stark
5787
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:07:00 -
[927] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.
u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog. so if you're playing better than a dog, the ehp nerfs shouldn't be an issue since ganks are trivial to avoid. yes? Well if your dog is better than you, the ship might never undock because dogs have trouble with using mouse. If he manage to click the button, now you are **** out of luck and will die as you drift slowly away from the station because a dog definitely won't need less than a full day to select anything and then warp to is.
are you calling Mr. Fuzzywiggles stupid? how dare you. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21954
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:09:00 -
[928] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:Tippia wrote:So how do you explain its monumental rarity and how people can go through their entire account lives without being victims of (or even seeing) one?
Somebody other than Tippia should ask me this so I could answer. I have no answer. Yeah, that's what happens when you pull such nonsensical ideas out of nowhere.
By the way, would you like to venture a guess at how much a Charon GÇö decidedly not an armour tanker GÇö benefits from having armour boosting in the system? Would you like to revise your 1GÇô2% number for something more realistic?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1540
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:10:00 -
[929] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote: Right after you tell us how booster ship boosts hull tank of a freighter.
...all right, I'll tell you anyway - you fit a ship scanner with a cargo scanner on your NPC scanning alt you scan freighters with. With amount of non-hull tank on a freighter, it's gotta be active all the time or it'll be too late. Not to mention that a booster will not boost freighter ehp more than 1%-2%, which is negligible.
more like 10% (will be more now that freighters are getting more hp into armour and shield) and logi reps.
Digger Pollard wrote: Currently avoiding gank is 100% impossible even for gods. You can make it less profitable, but not avoid it. Losing a freighter, even an empty one, is bad enough to call it a huge risk to pilot one.
Hard to prove that. all i can say is i freighter a lot, and have never once been successfully ganked.
Dave Stark wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.
u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog. so if you're playing better than a dog, the ehp nerfs shouldn't be an issue since ganks are trivial to avoid. yes?
without trying to paint a bulls eye on my head, i intend to fit 3 cargo rigs on all my freighters. I expect the methods i use to keep myself safe now will continue to keep me safe. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1081
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 19:10:00 -
[930] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Digger Pollard wrote:
So with those answers in mind, I feel pretty confident than the only real risk in ganking is being worse than my dog at eve.
u say that as if avoiding ganks requires u to be better at playing the game than a dog. so if you're playing better than a dog, the ehp nerfs shouldn't be an issue since ganks are trivial to avoid. yes? Well if your dog is better than you, the ship might never undock because dogs have trouble with using mouse. If he manage to click the button, now you are **** out of luck and will die as you drift slowly away from the station because a dog definitely won't need less than a full day to select anything and then warp to is. are you calling Mr. Fuzzywiggles stupid? how dare you.
He's not stupid, it's mostly a problem with using a mouse with PAWS! |
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