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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
57
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:39:00 -
[1081] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:I would really like if they switch from capital to large rigs. The prices are insane, for Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II x 2 you need 0.5b with cheapest order right now, who knows how much it will be after the change... and who knows how much Capital Transverese Bulkheads II will cost...
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity rigs don't cost that much to build. (It's about on par with CCCCs for T1; T2 is much cheaper than a T2 CCCC.) The thing is, though, nobody actually builds them, because nobody actually buys them... so currently the cheapest T1 one in Jita is 100M ISK for some insane profit if you ever manage to sell however many you build.
Edit for clarity: There's currently no market, so people price them at whatever the **** they want. If there was actually demand, someone would force the price down to sell theirs faster than the next guy's. |
Oxide Ammar
122
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:43:00 -
[1082] - Quote
Aerissa Nolen wrote:I've been working on a web tool to help wrap my head around these changes. Fairly limited right now but gets some basic info across. Works in IGB as well, does not require trust. http://xyjax.com/optimizer_kronos/index.html
God Bless You, Please post this in separate thread in science and industry section in forums, so you can get the feedback regarding this wonderful tool. |
Alexander McKeon
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
65
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:44:00 -
[1083] - Quote
Allowing modules to be fit to freighters opens up a huge can of worms, metaphorically speaking, which is why I advocated a subsystem-based approach. It would require more design time, possibly delaying the release, but it would permit a degree of tuning not otherwise possible and not require multiple hulls for different tasks. |
ELWhappo Sanchez
5
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:45:00 -
[1084] - Quote
3 low slots would work out a lot better than rigs that's for sure. I sold my freighter till all this blows over. if rigs get put in and the changes posted by fozzie go through I won't be buying another one. still a big hit to cargo space as it is I would have lost 350km3 out of my 850km3 if I wanted the same tank and align time. so my orcas are a better choice for hs hauling in the future. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:50:00 -
[1085] - Quote
mynnna wrote:
e: Has been pointed out to me that this module would instantly obsolete the new Angel bonuses. This is somewhat problematic, but for now I'm not going to worry about it.
Well, the same way omnis obsolete the domi, one would think. Worst case you could slap 500pg requirement on it. |
M'uva Wa'eva
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
32
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Posted - 2014.05.19 06:52:00 -
[1086] - Quote
Mynna's proposed solution with the use of low slots is, in principle, in a single word, brilliant. Thanks for putting some solid numbers and thought into the idea several of us have expressed already.
There remain tradeoffs between cargo and tank as with the rigs, but they are customisable and changeable rather than effectivcely permanent. They provide interesting gameplay choices for a freighter pilot every time they undock, and fully meet the risk/reward principle (more cargo, less tank; more tank, less cargo) so there is still most definitely no free lunch.
If there was a concer about subcaps gaining the warp speed rig, it could be handled like the Covert Ops Cloak for bombers, etc... with an absurdly high CPU requirement offset with a 100% reduction in CPU fitting cost for the freighter class. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
105
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:00:00 -
[1087] - Quote
M'uva Wa'eva wrote:If there was a concer about subcaps gaining the warp speed rig, it could be handled like the Covert Ops Cloak for bombers, etc... with an absurdly high CPU requirement offset with a 100% reduction in CPU fitting cost for the freighter class. They removed the CPU Requirement being the limiting factor a few updates ago.. it's now a "Can be fitted to" field.. As people found a way to make an Avatar fit it with the right Officer CPU mods lol.
But I agree..
OR, you can give it negative effects.. Max locked targets to 0, or something.. Would also be nice as you could still fit it, to quickly move a BS or something, but not viable in combat conditions. Give it a penalty to cargo so you still have to pick between space and speed.. |
M'uva Wa'eva
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
32
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:02:00 -
[1088] - Quote
Thanks for the correction, Sniper. I was going off the old behaviour - as you point out, it could be handled much more elegantly with the "Can be fitted to" field. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
22
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:09:00 -
[1089] - Quote
to hell with these changes.. thanks ccp fozzie for seriously running any remaining fun I had in this game.
now you've gimped freighters and provide no reason for someone to risk all that isk on a jump freighter.. you sir have provided more ammo to allow folks to play other games.
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Pestario Vargas
The Conference Elite CODE.
0
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:12:00 -
[1090] - Quote
Thank you for these changes CCP. I can hardly wait. |
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Dave Stark
5798
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:22:00 -
[1091] - Quote
Theng Hofses wrote:Dave Stark wrote:no, i'm telling you that you've offered no proof that it is. It is obvious to any reasonable person that does not have an ulterior motive.
really? explain how it's obvious that he's multiboxing. |
Dave Stark
5798
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:27:00 -
[1092] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Dave Stark wrote:[quote=Maldiro Selkurk]I want gank pilots to have to scan my Charon to see what defenses (or k thereof) I have on my ship. [/qu,ote] so you're willing to take a massive freighter nerf, just so gankers have to click 1 more button before they gank you? There is no nerf, if rigs AND MODS are added to freighters it just makes them like all the other ships in the game (i.e. meaningful choice at a cost). Let me ask you this, what if every ship in the game had no rigs and no mods, you got hull bonuses and that was it? Would you even be playing this game? alternatively, you could just answer the question that i put to you. There is no nerf under the plan I proposed no matter how many times I have to restate that fact it isn't going to change. You can adjust the hulls and then make rigs - mods to either put it back exactly like it is now or choose to rig + mod differently if you so choose just like all the other ships in the game. Now its my turn to ask you to respond to my question because it is relevant to the seriously restricted options currently available to freighter pilots.
OP disagrees. it's quite obvious any fitting slot is accompanied by a nerf.
get your head out of the clouds. |
Dave Stark
5798
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:29:00 -
[1093] - Quote
Sweet Times wrote:so ccp you say you listen to your player base and their opinion matters
so you have heard what the players think what are you going to do about it
i say fire Fozzie and get in a dev who doesnt cause players to cancel subs
i'd honestly rather see people like you quit, than see fozzie leave/get fired.
you whine like a ***** about a change people have asked for for a long time, fozzie on the other hand has merely given people what they ask for (which is something most other companies won't even consider doing).
i know i can be very critical of CCP at times, but all these calls for fozzie to leave/quit/go to riot/etc are totally unjustified and juvenile. |
Gumpy Bitterhawk
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:38:00 -
[1094] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: you whine like a ***** about a change people have asked for for a long time, fozzie on the other hand has merely given people what they ask for (which is something most other companies won't even consider doing).
55 pages later and you are still shitting up the thread with your 'told you so' comments.
People asked for customization options, not a total nerf to pretty much all important stats, and then a 1.5b isk solution to unfuck one of those nerfs. That it had to come at some penalty p much everyone knew, but not a goddamn nerf across the board.
Plus, most of the people you are trolling right now with your ****** comments are actually people that never asked for anything as far as freighters and jump freighers go (running logistics is already enough of a ****** job as it stands), and got into this thread by reading about the major (!) changes they are planning to make. So tell me, is there any specefic reason you mention the 'told you so' thing in about every post you make here, other then trolling or boasting? |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
22
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:47:00 -
[1095] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Sweet Times wrote:so ccp you say you listen to your player base and their opinion matters
so you have heard what the players think what are you going to do about it
i say fire Fozzie and get in a dev who doesnt cause players to cancel subs i'd honestly rather see people like you quit, than see fozzie leave/get fired. you whine like a ***** about a change people have asked for for a long time, fozzie on the other hand has merely given people what they ask for (which is something most other companies won't even consider doing). i know i can be very critical of CCP at times, but all these calls for fozzie to leave/quit/go to riot/etc are totally unjustified and juvenile.
dave I disagree, these changes he's making are way obvious he doesn't understand the full effect this will have on new players and cost.. the dude is thinking about his major alliance buddies specifically helping those folks.. and he's doing an impressive job on making matters worse for folks that's not apart of those huge alliances.. this will result in way more subs dropping.
he's giving folks reason to leave.. and your comment on "folks like you should leave" only hurts this games numbers.. I mean seriously get off your ego abit and think about if you stand for the game expanding both in content and more importantly new players joining.. or a huge bust of subs dropping and making another company rich cause that company is listening and doing what the fanbase is asking for.
keep it up and I promise eve online is going to choke on its own blood.. and fozzie will be long gone before that you wake up about it. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
271
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:47:00 -
[1096] - Quote
The stated aim in the Fanfest mention of this was greater customisation. And yet the choice was Rigs?!? The value of customisation is surely that the ship can be adjusted to suit needs which may be different today than they were yesterday and will be tomorrow (I'm going to Jita today, I'll fit for as many EHP as possible; tomorrow I'll be moving veldspar three jumps from the corp mining op to a station with a good refinery...). Rigs aren't suitable for that task, they're far too permanent.
So was the only reason for the choice how potentially tough a freighter with a DCII would have been?
Additional thought:
One of the things which drove freighter capacity very particularly was always the size of Outpost Eggs and so forth. Are all those null infrastructure operations going to required cargo rigs to make them more vulnerable? |
Anathema Device
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:51:00 -
[1097] - Quote
Lithorn wrote:I had trained for these ships (jump freighters) but now the changes being made have certainly made up my mind as to whether I will ever buy them, decidedly no. Compared to this, other capital ships with some hauling capability are a far better trade-off for most tasks, especially now after these proposed changes. Better fuel usage, better jump range, better price. Surely you must admit they would still have a role as an in-systems hauler between stations.
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Feffri
Death By Design Did he say Jump
50
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:52:00 -
[1098] - Quote
Posting to agree with comments made from before these changes are horrible and not well thought out at all. Fozzie take the weekends off as you obviously don't do your best thinking on weekends. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
511
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:56:00 -
[1099] - Quote
I must be 1 step away from the funny farm when a Goons ideas for how to make freighters configurable, is far better than what CCP suggest..
Now you just need to get CCP to listen Myanna. |
Dave Stark
5798
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 07:59:00 -
[1100] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:keep it up and I promise eve online is going to choke on its own blood.. and fozzie will be long gone before that you wake up about it.
people like you have promised that for the last 10 years. |
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Oxide Ammar
122
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Posted - 2014.05.19 07:59:00 -
[1101] - Quote
If these changes are going through, I highly suggest to punish Fozzie of manually piloting freighter for 35 jumps a day for 1 week with these modified freighters... soul crushing punishment. |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
204
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:00:00 -
[1102] - Quote
Dear CCP Fozzie,
The number one reason for using (Jump) Freighters is hauling stuff about across space.
When you lower the base cargo capacity of all (Jump) Freighters by between 27 and 30%,
And then add the use of Rigs to compensate for the ability to haul stuff about across space,
You should lower the total ship material costs (including the extra materials pre-Kronos) by between 27 and 30%.
This reflects the base cost of the ship versus the purpose of the ship it is mainly build or bought for.
The cost to build or buy a (Jump) Freighter will be higher after Kronos because of the need to add Rigs on them,
Which are permanent ship modifications that will be destroyed if they are removed or if the ship is repackaged.
Regards, a Freelancer
Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Dave Stark
5798
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 08:03:00 -
[1103] - Quote
Gumpy Bitterhawk wrote:So tell me, is there any specefic reason you mention the 'told you so' thing in about every post you make here, other then trolling or boasting?
because it's still more constructive than the constant whining going on, since you know... we've already had the discussion about freighters getting rigs in several other threads over the last god knows how long.
people who wanted something for nothing obviously weren't going to get it; freighters were already balanced, if you wanted extra things it was obvious you had to give something up for it.
this is also a feedback thread; i've given my feedback. other people have simply come in here and just cried, and stomped feet, and been less constructive than me. however apparently your issue is with me. interesting.
I don't really want any of these changes, just like most other people. the difference is, i'm not whining about it. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
22
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:07:00 -
[1104] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:keep it up and I promise eve online is going to choke on its own blood.. and fozzie will be long gone before that you wake up about it. people like you have promised that for the last 10 years.
people like me haven't been playing the game for 10 yrs check that crap dude. however a player like me that does have wide experience in how mmo's are developed with irrational plans end up dying due to *****ful thinking on the other hand is a warning to those that be.. which obviously fozzie doesn't care about.. guess one can assume he's already spruced up his resume for his next job. im just saying. |
Lara Divinity
Seles Deep Space Industries Order of the Exalted
8
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:07:00 -
[1105] - Quote
ELWhappo Sanchez wrote:3 low slots would work out a lot better than rigs that's for sure. I sold my freighter till all this blows over. if rigs get put in and the changes posted by fozzie go through I won't be buying another one. still a big hit to cargo space as it is I would have lost 350km3 out of my 850km3 if I wanted the same tank and align time. so my orcas are a better choice for hs hauling in the future.
damm right they are a better choice cheaper tougher faster more versatile and good enuff for hsinstead of spending billions on a crappy freighter buy 4 orcas ehp on the orca is like twice the amount of a freighter when fitted right
is it an airplane ...is it a submarine oh no its a nerfed freighter from eve online goin to the trashbin |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
519
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:15:00 -
[1106] - Quote
Aerissa Nolen wrote:I've been working on a web tool to help wrap my head around these changes. Fairly limited right now but gets some basic info across. Works in IGB as well, does not require trust. http://xyjax.com/optimizer_kronos/index.html
That's awesome! |
Gumpy Bitterhawk
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:18:00 -
[1107] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Gumpy Bitterhawk wrote:So tell me, is there any specefic reason you mention the 'told you so' thing in about every post you make here, other then trolling or boasting? because it's still more constructive than the constant whining going on, since you know... we've already had the discussion about freighters getting rigs in several other threads over the last god knows how long. people who wanted something for nothing obviously weren't going to get it; freighters were already balanced, if you wanted extra things it was obvious you had to give something up for it. this is also a feedback thread; i've given my feedback. other people have simply come in here and just cried, and stomped feet, and been less constructive than me. however apparently your issue is with me. interesting. I don't really want any of these changes, just like most other people. the difference is, i'm not whining about it.
Telling random people who complain about these changes 'i told you so', indifferent if they have anything to or not to do with asking for these changes, every other post you make, isnt constructive, and is far from feedback. So again, poaching or trolling?
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Dave Stark
5798
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:21:00 -
[1108] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:people like me haven't been playing the game for 10 yrs check that crap dude.
"i an quitting eve" ~ some irrelevant nobody, 2003. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=18822
so yes, people whining and threatening to quit the game every time a change is made have been playing for 10 years. i did check that crap, dude. |
Dave Stark
5798
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:23:00 -
[1109] - Quote
Gumpy Bitterhawk wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Gumpy Bitterhawk wrote:So tell me, is there any specefic reason you mention the 'told you so' thing in about every post you make here, other then trolling or boasting? because it's still more constructive than the constant whining going on, since you know... we've already had the discussion about freighters getting rigs in several other threads over the last god knows how long. people who wanted something for nothing obviously weren't going to get it; freighters were already balanced, if you wanted extra things it was obvious you had to give something up for it. this is also a feedback thread; i've given my feedback. other people have simply come in here and just cried, and stomped feet, and been less constructive than me. however apparently your issue is with me. interesting. I don't really want any of these changes, just like most other people. the difference is, i'm not whining about it. Telling random people who complain about these changes 'i told you so', indifferent if they have anything to or not to do with asking for these changes, every other post you make, isnt constructive, and is far from feedback. So again, poaching or trolling?
actually, it is constructive when people keep asking "why?" which, they do.
it's rude not to answer people's questions. |
Gumpy Bitterhawk
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:27:00 -
[1110] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:
actually, it is constructive when people keep asking "why?" which, they do.
it's rude not to answer people's questions.
It might be rude to not answer peoples questions, but im pretty sure they would rather have no answer then a random and indifferent 'i told you so' comment from you.
People like you remind me why i stopped reading eveo forums years ago. |
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