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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5304
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:37:00 -
[1891] - Quote
Tippia wrote:...gankers will really have to hope that people go hog wild with the expanders.
People almost always do.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6437
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:40:00 -
[1892] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote: No, no Goonie, I didn't say I didn't want a load of catalysts to be able to kill my Jump Freighter. I definitely did not say that. If I remember correctly and I could be wrong because I wrote it ages ago (like 10 minutes or something) and that's a very long time, was that this 6 billion isk ship should have much better defensive capabilities than it does at present and that it should not die to a relatively small number of very low skilled Goon alts in Catalysts, hence fitting a DCII is not unreasonable.
I think if you read back that is in fact what I said. And you do realise that when you talk about "new players" what you mean is the brand new high-sec ganking alt some bitter-vet just spawned, don't you?
Terrible.
I love how you think I'm a Goon. It shows a lot of your mentality if you don't think it's possible anyone can disagree with you in honesty.
No, by the way. That non combat ship should not have better defenses, and you should not be immune to the actions of a whole bunch of people just because your ship costs more than their ships. Asking to double your tank for a 1 million isk module is not reasonable.
What you're asking for is to have new players handcuffed by pricetags just because your entitlement tells you that you should never have to die.
Pathetic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1570
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:41:00 -
[1893] - Quote
just realised the amount of shield and armour tanks given and with the low slots naturally giving resistance options to the provi and obe, the fenrir is looking hard done to.
- add 2 CPU to resistance plating? - speed buff? capacity buff to obe level? - low slot shield mods that can only be fit to freighters? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Angelina Duvolle
Homeworld Technologies
37
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:42:00 -
[1894] - Quote
I've been pretty critical of the original changes, and to be honest did not believe they would be revised in this manner.
I appreciate Fozzie being willing to take a second look at this, and the CSM for working on it with him. Mynnna gets a gold star imho.
My biggest complaint was the cost restricting customization, and lack of useful rigs These changes do a good job of sorting those issues.
Fozzy; Are CPR cpu requirements going to be lowered? Any chance of a role reduction for pds's for the shield freighters?
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6437
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:42:00 -
[1895] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:just realised the amount of shield and armour tanks given and with the low slots naturally giving resistance options to the provi and obe, the fenrir is looking hard done to.
- add 2 CPU to resistance plating? - speed buff? capacity buff to obe level? - low slot shield mods that can only be fit to freighters?
I agree here. The Fenrir is the clear loser here, and the Providence the clear winner. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Valterra Craven
247
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:43:00 -
[1896] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote: - low slot shield mods that can only be fit to freighters?
PDU!!!!!! |
Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
19
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:45:00 -
[1897] - Quote
I think the change from rigs to low slots are an incredibly positive one that actually allows for interesting gameplay rather than set-it and forget it for your most common use case.
My only caution is that this also sounds like it heavily favors the armor-based hulls over the shield-based hulls. I've seen some discussion already about this but haven't run any numbers myself. I just hope the issue doesn't get lost in the noise and that the final EHP are either relatively balanced or that less EHP results in some other gain like slightly more cargo space? |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1570
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:45:00 -
[1898] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote: - low slot shield mods that can only be fit to freighters?
PDU!!!!!!
if thats a power dag, then cpu may be a bit of an issue... EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
293
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:46:00 -
[1899] - Quote
Now, we're talking, Fozzie. |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
13
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:48:00 -
[1900] - Quote
So after doing some more excel fun.... It looks pretty good. with 2 t2 expanded cargoholds and a t2 bulkhead you can get pretty sufficient cargo with a decent tank. My only real concern is what has been stated before with the slight imbalance given to the two armored ships vs shield tanks. I wouldn't expect them to be equal but given the set up i just listed for example the fenrir and charon are sitting in the 124 - 135 ehp while the providence is somewhere in the 165-180 ehp and the still tanky obelisk is in the 170 - 185 range. 40k ehp seems like a rather large gap especially when you consider this gap is only amplified after skills are taken into consideration.
Again let me reiterate before Tippia comes in throwing her DA card, not looking for them to be equal but at the current set up i see the price in provies and especially obe's going up. i mean have you seen the ehp of the new obe with 3 bulkheads??? 200 + ehp before even taking skills into account holy hell! |
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1172
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:48:00 -
[1901] - Quote
And this is why at the end of the day Fozzie is a hero :D Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. Beware the french guy!
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Hiryu Jin
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
32
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:49:00 -
[1902] - Quote
Did you guys (ccp) get bored one day and decide to troll the **** out of everyone?
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Jattila Vrek
Green Visstick High
12
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:49:00 -
[1903] - Quote
If the 0,3 AU/s warp speed accellerators are affordable (although I doubt it), then there will be little reason to fit an Inertial Stabilizer, except on very short warps. This module may also be usefull on an Orca. For subcaps this module is quite underwhelming. |
Cielle Tische
Who Armed the Carebears CAStabouts
6
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:49:00 -
[1904] - Quote
Mmmmmm... I actually liked the Rigs idea better, and for one specific reason.
I could live with spending a couple hundred mil to get my cargo back up to what it is now (and actually higher) at the expensive of armor. T1 Capital Cargo Rigs == 15% Cargo, -10(5)% armor. I could live with 160m for three of those
I'm not sure, however, if I can live with Cargo Expanders. T2 Expanded Cargohold == +27.5% Cargo, -20% Structure. That's just too much tank loss for something that relies on structure tank.
OBELISK - CURRENT Shield: 5,313 Armor: 22,500 Structure: 120,000 (RHP: 147,813) Cargo-Skillless: 750,000 Cargo-Skilled: 937,500
OBELISK - RIGGED (3x cargo) Shield: 14,000 Armor: 34,295 Structure: 110,000 (RHP: 158,295) Cargo-Skillless: 669,185.00 Cargo-Skilled: 836,481.25
OBELISK - LOWS (3x expanders) Shield: 14,000 Armor: 40,000 Structure: 56,320 (RHP: 110,320) Cargo: 911,975.625 Cargo-Skilled: 1,139,969.53125
OBELISK - LOWS (2x expander + 1x bulk) Shield: 14,000 Armor: 40,000 Structure: 88,000 (RHP: 142,000) Cargo: 715,275.00 Cargo-Skilled: 894,093.75
Now then on top of that... Bulkheads were mentioned as being changed to reduce cargo instead of velocity, which then moots the point of trying to use one to counter the expanders' penalty. (Calculations above using currently listed freighter changes and currently ingame modules). Basically what I'm saying is... I think certain things need to be taken into consideration before these changes are made final. As long as Bulkheads don't take out of cargo, I think it'll be fine, because people who want "as close to now" can just do the 2x expander 1x bulk method, but if it does, it'll end up cutting that down to 795,743.43 cargo, which is far substandard compared to now. Developer of www.eveidb.com - Relational EVE database! [Still under construction] |
Valterra Craven
247
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:50:00 -
[1905] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote: - low slot shield mods that can only be fit to freighters?
PDU!!!!!! if thats a power dag, then cpu may be a bit of an issue...
yes, which is why I'm arguing for a role bonus to cpu fitting just like they did with bulkheads! |
Digger Pollard
Why So Platypus
7
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:51:00 -
[1906] - Quote
So we still cannot have old capacity and EHP back, and it's still a nerf. But I guess it's a bit less of a nerf, at least concerning Jita-bound freighters, they can now be somewhat more resilient towards easymode ganking, while being fit for capacity in general use hauling away from gank systems. But in the meantime, Obelisk is useless for the latter and Charon is useless for the former, with Fenrir being untankable without losing his prized agility, the title of The Freighter goes from Obelisk to Providence.
P.S. If the bulkheads are really changed to take out cargo, then the nerf is too massive and I prefer staying unsubbed. |
Takanuro
Kill-Switch Engage
112
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:51:00 -
[1907] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:So after doing some more excel fun.... It looks pretty good. with 2 t2 expanded cargoholds and a t2 bulkhead you can get pretty sufficient cargo with a decent tank. My only real concern is what has been stated before with the slight imbalance given to the two armored ships vs shield tanks. I wouldn't expect them to be equal but given the set up i just listed for example the fenrir and charon are sitting in the 124 - 135 ehp while the providence is somewhere in the 165-180 ehp and the still tanky obelisk is in the 170 - 185 range. 40k ehp seems like a rather large gap especially when you consider this gap is only amplified after skills are taken into consideration.
Again let me reiterate before Tippia comes in throwing her DA card, not looking for them to be equal but at the current set up i see the price in provies and especially obe's going up. i mean have you seen the ehp of the new obe with 3 bulkheads??? 200 + ehp before even taking skills into account holy hell!
I was thinking the Providence with a couple of A-Type Adaptive Nano Platings would offer a pretty reasonable armor tank in future? I don't have the tools to theory craft it though. Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
606
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:52:00 -
[1908] - Quote
Quote:GÇó The permanence of customizability that relies completely on rigs. not a real issue.
Quote:GÇó The relative lack of interesting choices for Jump Freighter pilots. yes, well I was hoping for some new cap rigs.
Quote:They will have very restrictive powergrid and cpu totals this is why I did not want slots. It's not completely bad.. but I am a little disappointed. Please do not use this change as an opportunity to leave freighters in a worse spot then they were before the change.. that's all I can ask at this point.
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2407
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:53:00 -
[1909] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lara Divinity wrote:so basicly i have been training for a month for somthing that is now gonna get nerfed like hell n dont even feel like buyin nomore bcos of it There was a reason for you to invest in the skill books and start training, right? That reason will not go away with the patch. Whatever problem you were having that you thought you would need a freighter to solve, you'll still need a freighter to solve. Just keep plugging away at those skills GÇö the needs and solutions will remain the same as always.
This is so true. People will still be using freighters no matter what since they will still be the only class to move large amounts of material with some degree of protection/safety.
These changes may in fact help. If you are moving lots of expensive stuff, but not going to be filling up your cargo hold then you'll want to go for tank. If you are going to be moving lots of inexpensive stuff, then you may end up going for cargo space.
The cargo space nerf is, IMO, a weak argument. Nobody (with half a brain) fills up their obelisk with more than about 700 million in cargo anyways. Unless you are moving vast amounts of veldspar, you will rarely fill a freighter up. So taking even a big hit on the cargo space is not something most people will be crying over. Now having the ability to add more tank means you can move your stuff with even more safety/protection (although not 10%).
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Kaius Fero
46
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:55:00 -
[1910] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Victoria Sin wrote: No, no Goonie, I didn't say I didn't want a load of catalysts to be able to kill my Jump Freighter. I definitely did not say that. If I remember correctly and I could be wrong because I wrote it ages ago (like 10 minutes or something) and that's a very long time, was that this 6 billion isk ship should have much better defensive capabilities than it does at present and that it should not die to a relatively small number of very low skilled Goon alts in Catalysts, hence fitting a DCII is not unreasonable.
I think if you read back that is in fact what I said. And you do realise that when you talk about "new players" what you mean is the brand new high-sec ganking alt some bitter-vet just spawned, don't you?
Terrible.
I love how you think I'm a Goon. It shows a lot of your mentality if you don't think it's possible anyone can disagree with you in honesty. No, by the way. That non combat ship should not have better defenses, and you should not be immune to the actions of a whole bunch of people just because your ship costs more than their ships. Asking to double your tank for a 1 million isk module is not reasonable. What you're asking for is to have new players handcuffed by pricetags just because your entitlement tells you that you should never have to die. Pathetic. Fuk yeah, I like it! How about you and you buddies get down to Somalia, buy some cheap ass speed boats and start ganking those carebear american freighters? Then send us some selfie's from the captain cabin? Now that would be cool! And don't forget to send a GF in local! |
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Midori Tsu
Evolution Northern Coalition.
133
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Posted - 2014.05.21 15:58:00 -
[1911] - Quote
is it intended that the JFs won't be able to put on a single T2 CPR? |
Ammzi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1774
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 16:00:00 -
[1912] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Can you, at least on the JF....maybe on the Freighter....put a little more wiggle room with the CPU to fit a DCU?
At least on the JF, which is extremely expensive! It should have ALOT more tanking abilities then it's T1 counterpart. With it's already smaller cargohold, players will be deciding to pick Cargohold expanders...which reduce tank, as we already know. Or go full tank and loose precious cargo space.
It's a good balance!
No - not unless hull is going to be cut by 60 %. DC is way too overpowered on a freighter. You are already looking at very high ehp post kronos. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1571
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 16:00:00 -
[1913] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Can you, at least on the JF....maybe on the Freighter....put a little more wiggle room with the CPU to fit a DCU?
....
It's a good balance!
FFS. READ.
Xander Phoena wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Ok, these changes I'm happy with!
Now, can we get the CPU to 30 to put a DCU II on there? Then I'll happily buy one and use it alot! It was done this way to specifically avoid you being able to double your tank with one module. This. You aren't getting DCUs on a freighter. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Lyn Fel
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
55
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:02:00 -
[1914] - Quote
Just trained Astronautics Rigging IV on 6 characters... Can I has my SP back? |
Hiryu Jin
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
32
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:02:00 -
[1915] - Quote
so instead of a kick in the balls, we're supposed to be happy with a punch to face? |
Valterra Craven
247
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:03:00 -
[1916] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:You aren't getting DCUs on a freighter.
My kingdom for a PDU instead? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6437
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:03:00 -
[1917] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Can you, at least on the JF....maybe on the Freighter....put a little more wiggle room with the CPU to fit a DCU?
At least on the JF, which is extremely expensive! It should have ALOT more tanking abilities then it's T1 counterpart. With it's already smaller cargohold, players will be deciding to pick Cargohold expanders...which reduce tank, as we already know. Or go full tank and loose precious cargo space.
It's a good balance! No - not unless hull is going to be cut by 60 %. DC is way too overpowered on a freighter. You are already looking at very high ehp post kronos.
Well, unless you use cargo mods anyway.
Now the price to get your old cargo numbers back is a higher hitpoint loss than before, since cargo modules cost structure, where rigs cost armor. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3297
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 16:07:00 -
[1918] - Quote
Ncc 1709 wrote:you have started in the first post the use of capacitor power relays on jf's when they don't have enough cpu to fit one T2 one, is there any reasoning behind this?
The Meta 4 cap relay has a base CPU requirement of 3.
This is reduced by energy Grid upgrades to 2.25 (if you have it at 5. 25% reduction)
All the JF have a CPU of 5. Which is increased to 6.25 by CPU Management 5.
So you'll be able to fit 2, no problem.
And if you want to get fancy, take a look at the Type E CPR. Which has a CPU requirement of 1. Now, it's only a 10% bonus, but it'll neatly drop into that space. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5243
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:07:00 -
[1919] - Quote
Hiryu Jin wrote:so instead of a kick in the balls, we're supposed to be happy with a punch to face? Yes. The Paradox |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1903
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:08:00 -
[1920] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Can you, at least on the JF....maybe on the Freighter....put a little more wiggle room with the CPU to fit a DCU?
At least on the JF, which is extremely expensive! It should have ALOT more tanking abilities then it's T1 counterpart. With it's already smaller cargohold, players will be deciding to pick Cargohold expanders...which reduce tank, as we already know. Or go full tank and loose precious cargo space.
It's a good balance!
Ammzi wrote:No - not unless hull is going to be cut by 60% I never knew you were a Dev? (Only Devs can say no to something, not a player, get over yourself.)
Ammzi wrote:DC is way too overpowered on a freighter. You are already looking at very high ehp post kronos. I was reffering to the JF with a "Maybe" on the Freighter.
Simply because of the cost difference between the two ships and how easy it is to gank both of them.
I hope everyone voted in the CSM elections! Thank you to those who actually supported my campaign! Even if I don't get elected in, I hope that the CSM that do, and Devs actually use my ideas somewhere! |
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