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Tirabi
The New Era Spaceship Samurai
1
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Posted - 2014.05.19 01:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
What happened seriously?
Half of all 0.0 sov is held by Renters
NA./PBLRD/BOT
So many regions completely dominated by renters.
NC only have 2500 members in general yet over 6k in renters, P/L-BOT same sorta deal.
How long until pretty much most of 0.0 is renter corps, and its just 1 alliance vs another?
imo its pretty much ruined any sort of actual alliance warfare in regions.
Any thoughts? should this be limited? or will they continue to run all regions as renting alliances and have no room for new alliances/corps to step up? |
Garandras
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
172
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Posted - 2014.05.19 02:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
ATM that is where the meta lies.. only chance of another bloc war atm, is if HERO invades Provibloc, |
WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
354
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Posted - 2014.05.19 04:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
'cause of that dolla dolla bill yall!
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Tirabi
The New Era Spaceship Samurai
1
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Posted - 2014.05.19 05:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
yes I know its about the isk, however don't you think this destroys the whole concept of 0.0 space, and alliance holding, these days all you need to do is get some people to pay you isk for a system that's apparently under some alliance protection.
Just destroys the game for tbh, don't get me wrong, good idea, great way to make isk. (no I aint jealous I don't need isk) I just want the concept of space out there owned by alliances who are ether allied to each other or fighting one another, atleast the alliance would have taken the space for themselves instead of just paying for it.
anyway I hope CCP put an end to the madness that is renting space. |
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
156
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Posted - 2014.05.19 08:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tirabi wrote: Half of all 0.0 sov is held by Renters
They are just to strong to be stopped If you kill one, two new appear |
O'nira
United System's Commonwealth
6
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Posted - 2014.05.19 11:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
they would need to take a look at how easy it is for alliances to project their power over such vast distances, you can't nerf renter alliances without nerfing real alliances as well.
small alliances can't take space for themselves because a huge alliance will just jump to whatever area of space this small alliance is attacking and stomp them, might be able to attrition war them but that would require grinding the structures and then the big alliance come in their supercaps and grinds it back in 10 times less time and of course the small guys can't use their supercaps if they even have any because they are small.
You nerf force projection you nerf big space holding alliances.
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Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
156
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Posted - 2014.05.19 12:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
This man clearly knows what he is talking about.
Maybe they should nerf the fuel capacity of carriers? |
Tirabi
The New Era Spaceship Samurai
1
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Posted - 2014.05.19 21:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
thanks for the thoughts, imo this game is about control, strategy and all im seeing is big alliances sitting in there space under no threat at all just pulling in billions of isk made by other alliances.
0.0 space used to be a place that was deadly and hard to maintain/control, now it just seems if you got cash u got space.
would bringing back POS sov control fix this? :) |
Xeris 7
norse'storm battle group Fidelas Constans
4
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Posted - 2014.05.20 00:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
"Look, man. I only need to know one thing. Where they are... " - Vasquez, Aliens. |
Garandras
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
172
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Posted - 2014.05.20 03:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well until how sov works changes.. There will be N3/PL and CFC holding Null they are the player empires, they own pretty much it all and if you want to take advantage of the benefits of Null in a relatively safe environment you have to get permission from one or the other.
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Tirabi
The New Era Spaceship Samurai
1
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Posted - 2014.05.20 03:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
so what exactly was it that change so much to fall into this sorta chaos?
I remember the days of all of 0.0 held by alliances and most owned the whole region, everyone was at war with one another and it was a nice place to pvp in.
Now if you want to actually make an impact on an alliance in 0.0 hitting there renters won't really be very effective as they have so much ISK sitting in stores just rebuilding titans/supers as fast as they lose them.
renters paying 8 billion a month for maybe 1 or 2 systems its pretty much a new Supercarrier every 2 months just from 1-2 systems.. its just stupid.
No real threat to anything, and to be honest give it another 6-12 months there won't be any point in taking regions off alliances they will have so much money to just go back and take it again.
I figured losing a region or area of space is meant to cripple an alliance so they have to go away rebuild and come back, these days no need.
Take the invasion of N3/PL space down near Tenerifis, (oh look its all back in N3/PL's hands again) didn't take long did it.
0.0 space is free for all, now its turned into some government run alliance where u have to have permission to enter/build there? really...............sigh. |
Garandras
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
172
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Posted - 2014.05.20 03:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tirabi wrote:so what exactly was it that change so much to fall into this sorta chaos?
I remember the days of all of 0.0 held by alliances and most owned the whole region, everyone was at war with one another and it was a nice place to pvp in.
No one can agree on what should change
but i do believe you are looking at this though rose colored glasses..
There has pretty much always been collations and renters, back in the start it was more based on your nationality.. then there was BoB, which lead to CFC being created then you had HBC, N3, Stainwagon.
But what has changed is the power level.. so all you have now is CFC on one side and N3/PL on the other, they both have massive strength and the ability to move vast capitol fleet across the galaxy in short order, their only competition is the other and neither want to make the first move as with the current mechanics it would be a overly long and drawn out process of no real gains being made.
If you look at the holloween war, it was a very slow start, N3's main tactic was to over power Stainwagon by putting 150 Arcons on the objective and Stainwagon didn't have the power to compete vs that.. so they Cyno jammed key systems. The CFC weighed in and things started to move back in Stainwagon/CFC favor.. the B-R happened was a massive victory, CFC then cut a deal which saw their assets safe and withdrew.
N3/PL then reformed and came back at Stainwagon hard, which quickly fell apart due to the onslaught and poor leadership decisions.
The only real thing at this stage which would break the current state of affairs is if you nerf capitol ships into the ground.. which is just a ******** idea in general |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
2019
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Posted - 2014.05.20 10:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Garandras wrote:ATM that is where the meta lies.. only chance of another bloc war atm, is if HERO invades Provibloc,
Currently the only 2 groups that havent sucumbed to renting yet, I'm sure you would love to see us fight, and what happens when one side wins?
Provi has no intention if attacking HERO, I just hope HERO picks long term planning over short term greed and doesnt start a war with us either. BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty. |
Black Canary Jnr
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
107
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Posted - 2014.05.20 12:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
It's hard to get into 0.0 except for Provi, since you need caps and supers to grind or a large number of people willing to put up with grinding. Then you have to hope who-ever you're invading doesn't actually want that space and won't wipe you off the map.
It's easier to rent and not worry about sov then a) have the numbers to hold sov b) have the TZ coverage to hold sov c) have the ships and skills to hold sov. |
rsantos
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
7
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Posted - 2014.05.20 13:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Because... SOV sucks, BLOBS Win, BOTLORD, and renters like someone on there backs, breathing on there neck! |
Garandras
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
172
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Posted - 2014.05.21 00:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
The article on TMC today put some reasoning behind the current situation..
and when you put in the BOTLORD which is the exact opposite of content creation.
Only the people who are living in NPC Null are the ones having fun without a massive blue list |
DeadDuck
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
74
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Posted - 2014.05.21 12:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
0.0 sov warfare is complety broken in game. What we are seeing today is just the logic result of a very big mistake from the game developers a few years ago: the introduction of Super Capitals.
While a few years ago the players alliances were battling each other with BS fleets and a little after, Capitals, there was still space for new alliances to impose them selves in 0.0. Capital Ships are powerfull but still able to be beaten by conventional fleets.
With the introduction of Super Capitals the end game raised to a whole new level where is just pretty much impossible to deal with the forces of the Super Power Blocks. What happened in south is just a good example of what happens when one of the sides has the super cap advantage. They are so powerfull that unless you can pretty much field similar numbers you're gonna lose, and lose fast.
The arms race between the 2 super powers continues in game, but this time raising the level again. If about 2 years ago what was important was the number of Super Carriers, today is the number of Titans (the botlord agreement is just that), and again the potential to introduce new alliances in 0.0 decreases even more.
Any alliance holding 0.0 piece of land not aligned with any of the blocks is doomed to be destroyed sooner or later. No matter what numbers they can bring how competent their FC's are, or how active their member base is, they gonna lose they simply dont have the power or the resources to compete with these alliances owning the numbers of supercaps these alliances can field.
N3 is now deploying to Querious area, I dont know if to conquer new land or just to play with the current owners. Has anyone any doubts that if one of those Super Powers want that region for new renter space the current owners will be kicked very fast ?
The introduction of Super caps created such a gap in game that 0.0 is pretty much doomed to stay like it is or even worst (only about 2-3 regions besides the NPC ones are still owned by lets say not alligned enthities). Unless CCP makes something drastic, regarding Sov, warfare, holding, or boosts caps, TBH SOMETHING !! things can change again. Until then... |
Tirabi
The New Era Spaceship Samurai
1
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Posted - 2014.05.22 03:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
I fully agree Duck,
The only problem now is that N3/PL/GOONS have so many renters 18k renters atm just for P/L/N3 alone paying isk into there wallets, even if CCP changed something to do with Sov or capitals etc.. the vast wealth of these alliances is so far gone that it won't matter how u nerf them they will still come out on top.
The only way i can see any of this changing is putting an actual stop on allowing to rent space to alliances/corps in 0.0, its a place to be earnt and fought for (like you mentioned duck) about BS fleets and the like.
The other issue i see is when is CCP going to make another region for the power blocs to take control of, there are so many regions of EVE that has an outpost!! look at provibloc that is the stupidest thing ive ever seen.
I realise that in the past you used to have 3 stations in 1 constellation to gain SOV 4 or 5 to then build a super capital maintenance array to build titans etc.. but since that has been remove the stations still remain and more and more are being built.
CCP what happens when pretty much all of 0.0 systems have a station in them, what happens to the station platform? does it become obsolete or do u build another region, so that the power blocs move in and then that region will be hot dropped with stations aswell.
Building a station/supercapital etc etc used to take alot of time, effort, skill and was greatly respected on the field, i see a titan now or a supercarrier and don't even bat and eyelid at it.... because i know tomorrow there will be another and another and another and pretty much one dies, someone will buy 2 more the next day...
In the end this game has become such a bore, can't get decent pvp action most of the time, if your a super pilot yep u get to see pvp but only when another coalition does a full scale invasion or ur just hot dropping those lonely drakes again.
CCP fix this crap before u start losing everyone to StarCitizen instead.!! |
Garandras
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
174
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Posted - 2014.05.22 05:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
There is no way to stop 'Renting'
As it is a player mechanic there is no real way around it. people that want to PvE in Null will pay PvP alliances for the right to not be shot at |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
2022
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Posted - 2014.05.22 12:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tirabi wrote:look at provibloc that is the stupidest thing ive ever seen.
Dude....Ouch... BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty. |
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Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
156
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Posted - 2014.05.22 13:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tirabi wrote: CCP fix this crap before u start losing everyone to StarCitizen instead.!!
ahahaha your posts get better and better |
Black Canary Jnr
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
107
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Posted - 2014.05.22 14:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:Tirabi wrote:look at provibloc that is the stupidest thing ive ever seen. Dude....Ouch...
It only took what, 5/6/7 years of NRDS control to put like 50 stations in a region, there's not even a station in every system, even though we pay our tithes to the empiress and say our prayers every night before bed :( |
Natas Dog
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'm betting on moon being nerfed as an alliance level income and the continuing super capital arms race. |
Natas Dog
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'm betting on moon being nerfed as an alliance level income and the continuing super capital arms race.
Double Post |
Tirabi
The New Era Spaceship Samurai
1
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Posted - 2014.05.22 22:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
but moons is one thing, however renting income is another... u nerf one they still got the other, kinda irrelevant if you ask me.
no disrespect CVA on the provibloc I meant that region has so many stations that I bet they aren't even being used how they were intended, its pretty much just a safe dock point for most of the pilots in the area to not be attacked.
starcitizen is around the corner, maybe ill invest in that instead....
eve just aint really getting any better after the past 10 years, except making the rich, richer, looking at making changes to things that aren't really broken and leaving the capital backbone of pretty much all of 0.0 to last to make modifications.
fix ships like the Nidhogger that have been here since the start!!!
tune in next time for more ranting and raving at crap that doesn't work in this game :) |
WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
358
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Posted - 2014.05.23 01:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
The Nidhogger has been around since the start? News to me. |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
420
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Posted - 2014.05.23 01:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
To address the OP (and ignoring the idiotic drivel that follows it):
A year ago everyone was complaining that sov 0.0 was empty and there wasn't anything to kill when you roam. Now space is being inhabited and used by tens of thousands of active and new players, and killboards are thriving with activity again... but people still find a reason to complain about it because the new inhabitants weren't masochistic enough to grind through millions of hit points of station and I-hubs themselves? Whatever yo vOv |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2649
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Posted - 2014.05.23 02:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
This is a direct result of the supercap/sov meta. Ultimately if the only way to successfully defend your space is to pack on the super firepower you need a lot of isk to do it. |
Tirabi
The New Era Spaceship Samurai
1
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Posted - 2014.05.23 02:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
This is a direct result of the supercap/sov meta. Ultimately if the only way to successfully defend your space is to pack on the super firepower you need a lot of isk to do it.
there lies the broken mechanic? So you HAVE to have alot of SUPERCAPS in order to control 0.0 space? Well I don't think that was the complete intention of CCP's thoughts on 0.0!
0.0 has always been inhabited, its just now more any more corps/alliances don't have the ability anymore to even take space like we used to back in the day using battleship fleets etc and pos bashing with such dreads.
You don't own a super, you don't get space... don't tell me thats what the game has turned into.. so what went wrong here?
CCP made the supers to OP? Taking away POS sov control changed the mechanic of 0.0 warfare? allowing less small fleet engagements with something less than capitals?
Im sure most like myself don't want to play in a universe where you can't own/control something without having 100's billions of isk lying around to field a supercapital fleet to even stand a chance of owning a region/constellation (this excludes renting, doing it on your own)
Prob why more and more corps/alliances move to NPC null, its a great stepping stone but u can't make isk like u can in non NPC regions to build your HUGE super capital fleet and actually fight for a region.
I'm sure the post from the PL player isn't to fussed since his alliance isn't affected in anyway and pulls in alot of isk and he is having a wonderful time, however the other corps/alliances which make up what say 30-40% of the rest of eve, don't stand a chance lol
Finding solo ratters and explorers in rented space i don't classify as a great pvp fight, its boring enough trying to find them to begin with.
Invasions and regional wars make the impact however you got CFC and N3/PL thats it, no one else, no other threats, one side owns half the universe and the other side owns the other half, where is there room for others? |
WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
358
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Posted - 2014.05.23 03:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
So what do you want? Sov changes? Everyone in nullsec right now wants sov to be changed to something different. Your talking to the wrong people about this. |
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