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Tirabi
The New Era Spaceship Samurai
1
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Posted - 2014.05.23 05:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sorry if my ranting sounds bad, english isn't my first language.
What i am wanting is just information about when and what went wrong with eve 0.0 and hopefully write a document to CCP to organise getting some things rectified for all.
I believe there are alot of frustrations out there and would like to contribute to making eve a better place for all.
If i fail in my quest well then ill just have to play star citizen instead lol! |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
723
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Posted - 2014.05.23 11:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
These topics are fun, especially SOV discussions....
Why not just have CCP "free port" all Outposts and only allow Stations to have restricted access. That'll certainly slow down the proliferation of dropping them everywhere if everyone could access them.
Next would be to make Outposts destructible but I think thats a little ways out.
Honestly I'd like to see SOV removed completely turning 0.0 back into the wild wild west of sorts. Remove all the "reasons" for Coalitions to "need" to exist since the leaders will always find a "reason" they need them regardless of what tweaks are done to SOV. Just get rid of it and allow Alliances to drop something new like a giant Capital Station 1 per region so they can plant their "flag" etc.
Anyways, I've written about it before and I'm sure better iterations of it can be done but at this point CCP should be focused on turning 0.0 back into the "sand box" its supposed to be and not the slab of concrete SOV has made it at this point.
http://evesnotshot.blogspot.com/2013/02/fixing-null-sec-shuter-down.html?m=1
. Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á --áGÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" |
John Ending
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31
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Posted - 2014.05.28 05:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tirabi wrote:so what exactly was it that change so much to fall into this sorta chaos?
Tech |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
381
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Posted - 2014.05.28 11:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tirabi wrote: Well I don't think that was the complete intention of CCP's thoughts on 0.0!
It doesn't really matter what the intention was, the outcome is all that's important. CCP didn't think through the whole Supercap and Titan thing properly when they added them. The outcome is you need many of both to be a meaningful presence outside of high sec.
However its not like renters are a new thing, the current renting alliances are just a resurgence of an old idea used in areas of space which previously had no moon goo. Now that moon goo has been devalued alliances will look to the optimal income source, which happens to be renters. Its not actually a bad thing for the game as a whole by itself, some players don't want to deal with owning Sov and will pay someone else to do it. Its the Sov system itself which is broken.
None of this is the fault of the alliances or players in the game, its CCP's fault for not thinking things through. Its their sandbox and their tools that are used. CCP is choosing not to prioritise fixing any of it. |
45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
72
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Posted - 2014.06.04 00:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tirabi wrote:I fully agree Duck,
The only problem now is that N3/PL/GOONS have so many renters 18k renters atm just for P/L/N3 alone paying isk into there wallets, even if CCP changed something to do with Sov or capitals etc.. the vast wealth of these alliances is so far gone that it won't matter how u nerf them they will still come out on top.
The only way i can see any of this changing is putting an actual stop on allowing to rent space to alliances/corps in 0.0, its a place to be earnt and fought for (like you mentioned duck) about BS fleets and the like.
The other issue i see is when is CCP going to make another region for the power blocs to take control of, there are so many regions of EVE that has an outpost!! look at provibloc that is the stupidest thing ive ever seen.
I realise that in the past you used to have 3 stations in 1 constellation to gain SOV 4 or 5 to then build a super capital maintenance array to build titans etc.. but since that has been remove the stations still remain and more and more are being built.
CCP what happens when pretty much all of 0.0 systems have a station in them, what happens to the station platform? does it become obsolete or do u build another region, so that the power blocs move in and then that region will be hot dropped with stations aswell.
Building a station/supercapital etc etc used to take alot of time, effort, skill and was greatly respected on the field, i see a titan now or a supercarrier and don't even bat and eyelid at it.... because i know tomorrow there will be another and another and another and pretty much one dies, someone will buy 2 more the next day...
In the end this game has become such a bore, can't get decent pvp action most of the time, if your a super pilot yep u get to see pvp but only when another coalition does a full scale invasion or ur just hot dropping those lonely drakes again.
CCP fix this crap before u start losing everyone to StarCitizen instead.!!
Well if you want to go to StarCitizen go for it.
There is no loss for me as I enjoy EvE and CCP will not stop the corps or alliances renting from the major power blocs in 0.0
This is a sandbox game and you either enjoy it or you go and play another game.
I looked StarCitizen and they way I see it it could fail in some areas.
CCP please do not change the sov mechanics unless all of the EvE Community votes on it. I am not a CCP employee-ájust having a input in the EvE forum
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Arronicus
X-Prot Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
1072
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Posted - 2014.06.23 19:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
Star citizen is dying! What we need now is W-space renter alliances. Considering the way you can cycle wormholes fast in c5s and c6s, it should really be that hard for someone like PL to get a good protection racket going there. Once W-space and even npc null is rented out, then Eve can finally take up a new genre of MMO: Rent to Play. |
Valencia Mariana
The Red Circle Inc.
19
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Posted - 2014.07.01 08:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tirabi wrote:What happened seriously?
Half of all 0.0 sov is held by Renters
NA./PBLRD/BOT
So many regions completely dominated by renters.
NC only have 2500 members in general yet over 6k in renters, P/L-BOT same sorta deal.
How long until pretty much most of 0.0 is renter corps, and its just 1 alliance vs another?
imo its pretty much ruined any sort of actual alliance warfare in regions.
Any thoughts? should this be limited? or will they continue to run all regions as renting alliances and have no room for new alliances/corps to step up?
Because of terrible out dated null sec mechanics which push players this way. With no viable alternative new / fresh blood are forced to become vassals of massive nullsec coalitions. Valencia Mariana The Red Circle Inc. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
726
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Posted - 2014.07.01 18:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
We could start by decoupling sov and sov improvements from these ridiculous structures and multiple redundant timers. Why shoul dI have to SBU a system in order to shoot through timers on an IHUB, in order to shoot a Station/TCU.... come on. Just shoot what you want.
Want to destroy the infrastructure? Kill the IHUB. Want to capture the station? Go for it! Want to plant your flag? Make it happen. We should have to jump through a bunch of ridiculous hoops first.
Unfortunately, that doesn't fix the super-capital problem. It could actually amplify the problem. With sov even easier to take, leveraging supercapital projection to gain and hold sov would become easier. But then again, with increased usage comes increased opportunity for ganks. Unfortunately, I can't see any way to fix that without literally just removing them or imposing some pretty severe arbitrary restrictions, like only 1 per system per corporation or some other equally draconian measure. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥ -Grath Telkin, 2014. |
Spurty
V0LTA Triumvirate.
1360
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Posted - 2014.07.06 00:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
Garandras wrote:There is no way to stop 'Renting'
As it is a player mechanic there is no real way around it. people that want to PvE in Null will pay PvP alliances for the right to not be shot at
Of course there is.
CCP remove ability to send funds directly between individuals and remove private contracts. How's that money going to get there?
Also can make these large payments subject to scrutiny by the fraud department. Make those payments vanish into a black hole for two months.
Many ways to stop it.
Complete irradiacate it.
CCP chose not to so ... DOTA 2 update looks nice. Also FTL was on steam sales. Addicting!
*signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums* |
Garandras
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
212
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Posted - 2014.07.08 23:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Garandras wrote:There is no way to stop 'Renting'
As it is a player mechanic there is no real way around it. people that want to PvE in Null will pay PvP alliances for the right to not be shot at Of course there is. CCP remove ability to send funds directly between individuals and remove private contracts. How's that money going to get there? Also can make these large payments subject to scrutiny by the fraud department. Make those payments vanish into a black hole for two months. Many ways to stop it. Complete irradiacate it. CCP chose not to so ... DOTA 2 update looks nice. Also FTL was on steam sales. Addicting!
Wait so your solution.. is to make the game unplayable.. and because they wont you are going to play a different game o_0 |
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Nick Actilete
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.07.09 03:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
Because ISK |
lost packet
GamCorp Almost Broken
12
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Posted - 2014.07.09 13:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
pimps and prostitutes. |
Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
473
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tirabi wrote:yes I know its about the isk, however don't you think this destroys the whole concept of 0.0 space, and alliance holding, these days all you need to do is get some people to pay you isk for a system that's apparently under some alliance protection.
This is how it has been everywhere since someone invented the bigger stick. |
RedVox
Knight Templar. Northern Associates.
0
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Posted - 2014.07.11 08:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Very nice concept, take a loot at it CCP. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
279
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Posted - 2014.07.11 09:51:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tirabi wrote:NC only have 2500 members in general yet over 6k in renters, P/L-BOT same sorta deal. If that's true I wonder what could happen if they all collectively decided not to pay...
Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification. |
Phantra
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
96
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Posted - 2014.07.11 12:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
This is really a double edged sword.
On one hand, we spent weeks grinding the space, put vast time and resources into taking these regions and spend countless hours managing the residents. We provide access for new and older pilots to nullsec space that they otherwise wouldn't have had access to and we do so at a fair price, indiscriminately.
On the other hand, for small or medium alliances wishing to plant their flag in nullsec, you've no hope right now without at least some aspect of diplomacy or striking a rental deal.
It's a game of have and have-not's my friends. Welcome to nullsec 2014. |
Dream Raven
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.07.16 10:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:Tirabi wrote: Well I don't think that was the complete intention of CCP's thoughts on 0.0!
It doesn't really matter what the intention was, the outcome is all that's important. CCP didn't think through the whole Supercap and Titan thing properly when they added them. The outcome is you need many of both to be a meaningful presence outside of high sec. However its not like renters are a new thing, the current renting alliances are just a resurgence of an old idea used in areas of space which previously had no moon goo. Now that moon goo has been devalued alliances will look to the optimal income source, which happens to be renters. Its not actually a bad thing for the game as a whole by itself, some players don't want to deal with owning Sov and will pay someone else to do it. Its the Sov system itself which is broken. None of this is the fault of the alliances or players in the game, its CCP's fault for not thinking things through. Its their sandbox and their tools that are used. CCP is choosing not to prioritise fixing any of it.
While supercaps are overpowered and should be nerfed (or removed from the game entirely), they are not the reason why a lot of eve is renter space. It's a direct result of space being incredibly expensive to hold, as in much too expensive to be covered by moon goo, and as such if you want to keep all that space you conquered you need people in the systems. |
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
181
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Posted - 2014.07.16 11:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:Tirabi wrote:NC only have 2500 members in general yet over 6k in renters, P/L-BOT same sorta deal. If that's true I wonder what could happen if they all collectively decided not to pay... They will get kicked out of the renter alliance and can't dock anymore. |
Hans Zwaardhandler
Borealis Mining Concern Nerfed Alliance Go Away
103
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Posted - 2014.07.16 17:19:00 -
[49] - Quote
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:Tirabi wrote:NC only have 2500 members in general yet over 6k in renters, P/L-BOT same sorta deal. If that's true I wonder what could happen if they all collectively decided not to pay...
1) Sov drops and they cheer happily. 2) 300 supercarrier armada grinds the sov back. 3) Renters locked out of station. 4) Renters firesale anything.
And that would be that. |
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
181
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 09:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
Why would there be any sov drop? |
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Doris Dents
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
394
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 13:35:00 -
[51] - Quote
Cos empire pubbies bawwed until owning 0.0 was complete **** even if it requires millions of nerd hours to take and maintain and the SRP must flow. |
Blood Siphon
The Ostrogoths Curatores Veritatis Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 17:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lets see who has it better....
Renters and big alliances / coalitions get to have 70% of all regions in null sec , means 80% of them are empty systems with maybe 1-2 logistics corps managing them just for the pos incomes , you may have 1-2 systems with bunch of players in them , maybe a few more.
Which also means your intel channels are mediocre at best, you may get lucky and get a 3 jump intel on a enemy coming towards your miners, if that.
Now for providence, we have active fleets going at almost any time, they may vary from 5 members up to 200 depending on time of day, we dont have to go far because you travel the 30+ jumps to fight us.
Why do you travel to fight us? Oh thats right because we actually have active members in almost all of our systems , a fully operating coalition that works together rather then worrying about invading target a or target b, we rather role play a bit and have fun enjoying a game instead of bothering with a bunch of renters.
Because you waste the time to go 30+ jumps we hardly have to leave home to kill you, in which you say that we will never go far? We see you coming as soon as you step foot in the region, we are able to mobilize within a reasonable time frame because our intel is actually active, we have players constantly going in and out of them to use them rather then having to look for a target.
If you really think about it, we have gone farther than any other coalition because we focus on what matters most, having fun , holding our region , enjoying the game to the fullest without the drama of renters , or having a bunch of unused space. Most fights between the bigger coalitions almost have to be planned out because your so spread out.
So yes we are rich. Rich in content that just naturally occures for us rather then having to be forced to generate. |
Phantra
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
98
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 08:42:00 -
[53] - Quote
Blood Siphon wrote:Lets see who has it better....
Renters and big alliances / coalitions get to have 70% of all regions in null sec , means 80% of them are empty systems with maybe 1-2 logistics corps managing them just for the pos incomes , you may have 1-2 systems with bunch of players in them , maybe a few more.
Which also means your intel channels are mediocre at best, you may get lucky and get a 3 jump intel on a enemy coming towards your miners, if that.
Now for providence, we have active fleets going at almost any time, they may vary from 5 members up to 200 depending on time of day, we dont have to go far because you travel the 30+ jumps to fight us.
Why do you travel to fight us? Oh thats right because we actually have active members in almost all of our systems , a fully operating coalition that works together rather then worrying about invading target a or target b, we rather role play a bit and have fun enjoying a game instead of bothering with a bunch of renters.
Because you waste the time to go 30+ jumps we hardly have to leave home to kill you, in which you say that we will never go far? We see you coming as soon as you step foot in the region, we are able to mobilize within a reasonable time frame because our intel is actually active, we have players constantly going in and out of them to use them rather then having to look for a target.
If you really think about it, we have gone farther than any other coalition because we focus on what matters most, having fun , holding our region , enjoying the game to the fullest without the drama of renters , or having a bunch of unused space. Most fights between the bigger coalitions almost have to be planned out because your so spread out.
So yes we are rich. Rich in content that just naturally occures for us rather then having to be forced to generate.
Yeah but when all is said and done; you're still in CVA.
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VegasMirage
Reikoku Pandemic Legion
1559
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Posted - 2014.08.31 13:02:00 -
[54] - Quote
what does it mean when players don't log in for isk anymore either... no more games... it's real this time!!! |
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution
297
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 17:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
Phantra wrote:This is really a double edged sword.
On one hand, we spent weeks grinding the space, put vast time and resources into taking these regions and spend countless hours managing the residents. We provide access for new and older pilots to nullsec space that they otherwise wouldn't have had access to and we do so at a fair price, indiscriminately.
On the other hand, for small or medium alliances wishing to plant their flag in nullsec, you've no hope right now without at least some aspect of diplomacy or striking a rental deal.
It's a game of have and have-not's my friends. Welcome to nullsec 2014.
How we've all been mistaken. PL are the real saviours of nullsec.
Don't Panic.
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
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Posted - 2014.09.05 21:40:00 -
[56] - Quote
Terrible sov mechanics + limited number of income sources/sites per system + huge barrier to entry = Renting |
fatima'blush
Nova Albion
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 23:20:00 -
[57] - Quote
because no one wants to unite against a common enemy ....they are afraid if they set to many people blue wont have enough targets to shoot at. ive heard many alliance say that last statement. eyeroll. so now here we are. |
45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
91
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 00:52:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tirabi wrote:I fully agree Duck,
The only problem now is that N3/PL/GOONS have so many renters 18k renters atm just for P/L/N3 alone paying isk into there wallets, even if CCP changed something to do with Sov or capitals etc.. the vast wealth of these alliances is so far gone that it won't matter how u nerf them they will still come out on top.
The only way i can see any of this changing is putting an actual stop on allowing to rent space to alliances/corps in 0.0, its a place to be earnt and fought for (like you mentioned duck) about BS fleets and the like.
The other issue i see is when is CCP going to make another region for the power blocs to take control of, there are so many regions of EVE that has an outpost!! look at provibloc that is the stupidest thing ive ever seen.
I realise that in the past you used to have 3 stations in 1 constellation to gain SOV 4 or 5 to then build a super capital maintenance array to build titans etc.. but since that has been remove the stations still remain and more and more are being built.
CCP what happens when pretty much all of 0.0 systems have a station in them, what happens to the station platform? does it become obsolete or do u build another region, so that the power blocs move in and then that region will be hot dropped with stations aswell.
Building a station/supercapital etc etc used to take alot of time, effort, skill and was greatly respected on the field, i see a titan now or a supercarrier and don't even bat and eyelid at it.... because i know tomorrow there will be another and another and another and pretty much one dies, someone will buy 2 more the next day...
In the end this game has become such a bore, can't get decent pvp action most of the time, if your a super pilot yep u get to see pvp but only when another coalition does a full scale invasion or ur just hot dropping those lonely drakes again.
CCP fix this crap before u start losing everyone to StarCitizen instead.!!
And No I will not be going to Star Citizen I have seen what its like and it is nothing like EvE Online.
EvE Online is a lot different in the way you play the game.
Dose SC has it own Market, Mining, PvP, PvE, Etc to be like EvE Online I do not think so that SC will do the same.
I think CCP will make vast improvements to a game that we all love to play.
There has been a lot of negativity in the Forum about CCP and EvE.
And over the years there has been some good changes and bad changes that CCP need to fix.
Let see what happens in EvE in the near future and let CCP decide what the future will hold for EvE.
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Fret Thiesant
The Imperial LansDrahd LOADED-DICE
42
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Posted - 2014.09.23 23:42:00 -
[59] - Quote
From a non null person I can't imagine why I'd bother with sov mechanics when I can just pay someone to deal with all that for me.
I guess it's the idea of caving out an empire that is so appealing.
But lets be honest, most players lack time for that...or underestimate the enormous effort it'd take; dream about it or fail horribly.
Some succeed though, even at this late date, and I think that is amazing given the age of this game.
Most will fail though so
Why not just pay someone to do it
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DeadDuck
Mining Industry Exile Foundation The Camel Empire
99
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 08:51:00 -
[60] - Quote
Fret Thiesant wrote:Why not just pay someone to do it
Because you will be in line to be the 1st victim of a sov dispute. Renters for the landlords are just isks cows. They only care for one thing: your corp has to pay the bill each month or else.
They really don't care if your corporation loses everything or not. They will care if the "big numbers" from rent income start to suffer but until then... don't think for a second they will go to help your corp/alliance if you are in any kind of troubles. If they have to throw you under a bus cause it suits them, they will, and they will do it while laughing.
These big landlords, despize their renters. Renters are seen like 2nd degree 0.0 entitys and a lot of times, the directors of the "landlord alliances" have to intervene in order their member base don't shoot the renters. Why you may ask ? Because the member base dont respect you. You haven't conquered or fought for anything. They did. And that makes all the diference for them.
And you know one thing? They are right.
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