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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
464
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:11:56 -
[61] - Quote
Blood Siphon wrote:Lets see who has it better....
Renters and big alliances / coalitions get to have 70% of all regions in null sec , means 80% of them are empty systems with maybe 1-2 logistics corps managing them just for the pos incomes , you may have 1-2 systems with bunch of players in them , maybe a few more.
Which also means your intel channels are mediocre at best, you may get lucky and get a 3 jump intel on a enemy coming towards your miners, if that.
Now for providence, we have active fleets going at almost any time, they may vary from 5 members up to 200 depending on time of day, we dont have to go far because you travel the 30+ jumps to fight us.
Why do you travel to fight us? Oh thats right because we actually have active members in almost all of our systems , a fully operating coalition that works together rather then worrying about invading target a or target b, we rather role play a bit and have fun enjoying a game instead of bothering with a bunch of renters.
Because you waste the time to go 30+ jumps we hardly have to leave home to kill you, in which you say that we will never go far? We see you coming as soon as you step foot in the region, we are able to mobilize within a reasonable time frame because our intel is actually active, we have players constantly going in and out of them to use them rather then having to look for a target.
If you really think about it, we have gone farther than any other coalition because we focus on what matters most, having fun , holding our region , enjoying the game to the fullest without the drama of renters , or having a bunch of unused space. Most fights between the bigger coalitions almost have to be planned out because your so spread out.
So yes we are rich. Rich in content that just naturally occures for us rather then having to be forced to generate.
I like reading posts from CVA people. They're so disjointed from reality it helps pass the time while waiting for them to undock and actually fight.
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DeadDuck
Mining Industry Exile Foundation The Camel Empire
127
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Posted - 2014.09.26 14:12:55 -
[62] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote: I like reading posts from CVA people. They're so disjointed from reality it helps pass the time while waiting for them to undock and actually fight.
Dude if there is a region in wich you can expect a fight, that region is Providence. Now if you go there with a blob and expect to fight or are just baiting to drop a BOP's gang on some unaware guy, they will just say f**k you and do nothing. |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
464
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Posted - 2014.09.26 18:53:50 -
[63] - Quote
Those old assumptions don't always apply, just ask Kadeshi and Darkness about their disastrous series of engagements with EG. |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
390
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Posted - 2014.09.27 11:15:30 -
[64] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:Terrible sov mechanics + limited number of income sources/sites per system + huge barrier to entry = Renting
If you force us to "use our space" to hold it, we will just get serfs to work the farms. Social Engineering, deal with it.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
New Order Diplomat, contact me for all your New Order enquiries!
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Eryn Velasquez
75
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Posted - 2014.09.29 18:17:07 -
[65] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:Mr Omniblivion wrote:Terrible sov mechanics + limited number of income sources/sites per system + huge barrier to entry = Renting If you force us to "use our space" to hold it, we will just get serfs to work the farms. Social Engineering, deal with it.
It won't make any difference to only grant the ability to gain sov if the system is "used". But if you change the pricing of SOV so, that every week a system is not "used" (military/mining level stays at zero) the bill gets doubled - than many systems would not be claimed.
But this also would'nt change anything, because everytime a new owner wants to claim the SOV, one of the big guys will come and offer his "protection" for a fee. Same as renting before.
_GÇ£A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.GÇ¥-áGÇò Jean-Jacques Rousseau-á_
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boliano
Arch Angels Assault Force The Kadeshi
11
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Posted - 2014.09.30 12:55:52 -
[66] - Quote
Tirabi wrote:thanks for the thoughts, imo this game is about control, strategy and all im seeing is big alliances sitting in there space under no threat at all just pulling in billions of isk made by other alliances.
0.0 space used to be a place that was deadly and hard to maintain/control, now it just seems if you got cash u got space.
would bringing back POS sov control fix this? :)
They need to make it so holding space means u have to use it to keep it. Which is why all major sov alliances all agreed on this. |
Garandras
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
242
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Posted - 2014.10.01 05:09:58 -
[67] - Quote
boliano wrote:They need to make it so holding space means u have to use it to keep it. Which is why all major sov alliances all agreed on this.
The don't 'Need' to
a % of the player base would like it that way as it makes sense to them.. and the base idea is fine. The hard part would actually be implementing such a change.
The biggest challenge is what happens to current Sov if they overhaul the current mechanic. When Dominion SOV came in there was a mad rush to put SBU/TCU/iHubs down, and that was in the 'old' days where we didn't have superpowers that could move mass fleets of supers all over the place in a instant. While I think some yay some fleet brawls, I also think I can see it getting very mess very quickly as the big boys take all.. then work on the minimum required to hold it with their renters. (Or just 'keep' the same ares of space even without their flag there.. just dunk whoever tries to claim it.. so holding the same space just with a cheaper sov bill)
Now for a technical thing.. This will be a lot of new coding for CCP, who knows they may of already been working on it for the last year.. but even if they are working on a occupancy sov system I wouldn't expect it out anytime soon |
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
243
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Posted - 2014.10.01 12:43:32 -
[68] - Quote
Why take all? They allready posses all. I really doubt that any sov changes would reset the current sov holders because that would understandably **** off all the people currently holding it. But it doesn't even need to reset anything because a new system that needs and allows you to actually use your sov to hold it would automatically free up all the unused space in whatever way the new sov system works.
For example if suddently your sov costs in a system you don't use starts to rise until you have to pay a shitton of isk to hold it, the holder either has to start using it to get the cost back to normal or abandon the system -> BAM there you go new space for someone else to take |
flaming phantom
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
42
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Posted - 2014.10.01 16:18:30 -
[69] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:We could start by decoupling sov and sov improvements from these ridiculous structures and multiple redundant timers. Why shoul dI have to SBU a system in order to shoot through timers on an IHUB, in order to shoot a Station/TCU.... come on. Just shoot what you want.
Want to destroy the infrastructure? Kill the IHUB. Want to capture the station? Go for it! Want to plant your flag? Make it happen. We should have to jump through a bunch of ridiculous hoops first.
I like this, I could see 0.0 space becoming much more dynamic and dangerous.
I will also add my idea for needing to "use" your systems that I psoted in another thread:
I think it would be great if people had to use their system. The way I propose this would be as if each sysem that you had soverignty over had a "status bar", kind of similar to the faction warfare meter. You wouldn't do pointless plexes though, but utilizing things in your system would increase the bar up to 100%. Things to increase it would be like doing anaomlies, DED sites, killing asteroid rats, mining, using station services, etc.
Why though? My idea is that at 100% (i.e. you have used your system "enough") nothing happens. But if you're at a lower amount, your system defences take damage at DT. Not enough to cripple them in one night to be destroyed, but maybe after 5 or 7 days your system would be ripe for the picking.
the "lore" behind this would be simply that the npc pirates or drones plan to attack you, since you are in the system. However, by killing the rats and mining their materials, they lose recourses, so they attack with less and less, up to that 100% threshold. Some people in the other thread were confused, and seemed to think that I meant there would be an actual fleet of npcs attacking your system. I don't mean that, just a roleplaying explanation.
I also like the idea of not having to do all this stupid ****, just to shoot at the ihub like Soldarius mentioned. I think both of these could make it more dynamic with ownership, and you wouldn't be able to bite off more than you could chew per say, since you would need to use your systems, otherwise if neglected enough they would be super easily captured by other groups.
This would hopefully get more people in space, and small groups could actually fight for space. Sure they might lose it again, but if the bigger bog has taken too much, it will all crumble away from him. Since it would be much easier for system control to flip, I think it would be nice when a station switches controlers, there is a 24 hour grace period of entry from previously allowed people.
There could still be cyno inhibitors and stuff, but they would be more attackable, and stuff like that would be the first things to take damage at DT if they didn't use their system enough.
There is still the issue of super capitals, but other than nerfing them I don't have an immediate idea for solving that one.
Ideas? comments? |
Khema Fera
Brave Pros Incorparated
1
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Posted - 2014.10.09 15:54:00 -
[70] - Quote
Garandras wrote:ATM that is where the meta lies.. only chance of another bloc war atm, is if HERO invades Provibloc, It's going to be the other way around soon. Provi will be going for catch. |
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Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
809
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Posted - 2014.10.09 17:40:03 -
[71] - Quote
Rental is a dirty word but it's really about a lack of contract options.
It would have been nice to see a polar opposite of War Dec where we could contract blue standings and let some role play corp that fancies themselves professional Ice miners, a 3 month contract to certain systems. The rental system is really about private contracting of smaller corporations by larger, military ones. It just needs legitimate mechanics to make it legitimate. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
2143
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Posted - 2014.10.09 17:52:00 -
[72] - Quote
Khema Fera wrote:Garandras wrote:ATM that is where the meta lies.. only chance of another bloc war atm, is if HERO invades Provibloc, It's going to be the other way around soon. Provi will be going for catch. Only thing Provi would ever do is take back the systems that belonged to us in the first please, Greater Provi. BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty. |
ArmyOfMe
PILGRIMS Advent of Fate
362
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Posted - 2014.10.09 20:44:03 -
[73] - Quote
Once forceprojection gets nerfed we will see a lot of smaller alliances stop renting space. Cause lets face it, why pay for something that nobody will be willing to help you protect.
QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken
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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
464
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Posted - 2014.10.10 14:13:50 -
[74] - Quote
Ocih wrote:Rental is a dirty word but it's really about a lack of contract options.
It would have been nice to see a polar opposite of War Dec where we could contract blue standings and let some role play corp that fancies themselves professional Ice miners, a 3 month contract to certain systems. The rental system is really about private contracting of smaller corporations by larger, military ones. It just needs legitimate mechanics to make it legitimate.
A long time ago, CCP once stated that the contract system would be reworked to include treaties and such. There is nothing wrong with renting or protection rackets in EVE if people are willing to set them up and others are willing to pay.
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KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
2178
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Posted - 2014.10.10 19:12:16 -
[75] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:Ocih wrote:Rental is a dirty word but it's really about a lack of contract options.
It would have been nice to see a polar opposite of War Dec where we could contract blue standings and let some role play corp that fancies themselves professional Ice miners, a 3 month contract to certain systems. The rental system is really about private contracting of smaller corporations by larger, military ones. It just needs legitimate mechanics to make it legitimate. A long time ago, CCP once stated that the contract system would be reworked to include treaties and such. There is nothing wrong with renting or protection rackets in EVE if people are willing to set them up and others are willing to pay.
I actually agree, I never saw renting as a dirty word, there was obviously some demand for it as you can tell by the size of the renting alliances.
Ofcourse if there was more NRDS space, there would be less renter demand.
BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Phoebe:_ Remember remember the fourth of november._
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Mr Management
Anger Management
13
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:20:52 -
[76] - Quote
Increase the size of the tank so the little fish can avoid the sharks.
Remove Capitals, Remove Sov, Increase the size of 0.0.
The game was more fun without these and with less people 0.0 looked big and fun. |
Midnight Firestarter
Anger Management
27
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:23:18 -
[77] - Quote
I rent because its the only way I get to have fun in 0.0 and play the game.
If we turned up and started doing x in system y then we would last 10 seconds.
Give us a solution |
Treyah
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
4
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Posted - 2014.11.10 01:40:51 -
[78] - Quote
O'nira wrote:they would need to take a look at how easy it is for alliances to project their power over such vast distances, you can't nerf renter alliances without nerfing real alliances as well.
small alliances can't take space for themselves because a huge alliance will just jump to whatever area of space this small alliance is attacking and stomp them, might be able to attrition war them but that would require grinding the structures and then the big alliance come in their supercaps and grinds it back in 10 times less time and of course the small guys can't use their supercaps if they even have any because they are small.
You nerf force projection you nerf big space holding alliances.
Which is exactly what CCP did -- should be interesting now at least. |
Signal11th
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1442
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Posted - 2014.11.10 09:23:33 -
[79] - Quote
Tirabi wrote:What happened seriously?
Half of all 0.0 sov is held by Renters
NA./PBLRD/BOT
So many regions completely dominated by renters.
NC only have 2500 members in general yet over 6k in renters, P/L-BOT same sorta deal.
How long until pretty much most of 0.0 is renter corps, and its just 1 alliance vs another?
imo its pretty much ruined any sort of actual alliance warfare in regions.
Any thoughts? should this be limited? or will they continue to run all regions as renting alliances and have no room for new alliances/corps to step up?
Humm ok let me explain a few things,
I've been around the block in 0.0, pretty much spent my whole eve life in 0.0, small gang,10 hour fleets grinds,running a corp in 0.0 etc etc been there done it all pretty much. Now after a 6 month break from all that what am I now, yep a lowly renter and you know what I actually like it. Let me tell you why....
Log on when I want, Do what "I" want, Don't have people you would quite gladly stick in a decomp chamber telling you what to do because they are the "boss" Do I want to rat ...yep ok I will rat..Do I want to go kill stuff ..cool I will do that.
I literally have no one tell me what to do and I get all the benefits of 0.0. Yes I have to pay for that privilege but it's isk and I pay it and it's done, In the big old alliance for all of these pleasures I have to be at someone's beck and call for the whole month.
If I want to join the 0.0 big battle I can because I'm still blue to the big mothership and what's even better because I'm a renter this means de-facto everyone thinks I'm a scrub and expects nothing from me.
After 5 years of going from one 0.0 battle to another I can tell you it's all pretty pointless because it's just the same thing over and over again, you win some you lose some but in the end you nearly always end up with you and some other chap doing all the work and someone who has a reputation getting all the rewards.
I've put my time in 0.0 and being a sad lowly renter has been more interesting in 2 weeks than the last 1 year of 0.0 for me.
Powered by-áreaTh-áFilter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of-áany-ácorp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a-ásh*t anyway.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster.
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Treyah
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
24
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Posted - 2014.11.13 23:50:24 -
[80] - Quote
In terms of empty systems not being used, I'm surprised CCP doesn't implement a design to where a system with POS's that don't suffer "a pre-determined" number of npc kills will cause all said POS's setup there to burn through stront and/or resources at 3x the normal rate due to the extra fuel the POS's have to burn in order to fend off increasingly aggressive NPC pirate assaults |
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Bl1SkR1N
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
49
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Posted - 2014.11.16 09:29:38 -
[81] - Quote
It's nice to see these new changes making impact on null already. How hardly N3 is trying to keep a hold of their renters, all those mails how they will defend them but then you just see renter carrier defense fleet getting slaughtered :D Arming renters to fight for the space they even pay for. And the best part are angry mails of Scarlet where she wants to kick everyone. |
Signal11th
1468
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Posted - 2014.11.17 10:53:45 -
[82] - Quote
Bl1SkR1N wrote:It's nice to see these new changes making impact on null already. How hardly N3 is trying to keep a hold of their renters, all those mails how they will defend them but then you just see renter carrier defense fleet getting slaughtered :D Arming renters to fight for the space they even pay for. And the best part are angry mails of Scarlet where she wants to kick everyone.
I've noticed that a few renter corps have claimed sov in their rented systems because they know the owners can't actually prevent them from doing it, why pay for a system when you can just take it.
Powered by reaTh Filter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of any corp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a sh*t anyway.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and wo
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Bl1SkR1N
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
49
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Posted - 2014.11.17 12:47:35 -
[83] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Bl1SkR1N wrote:It's nice to see these new changes making impact on null already. How hardly N3 is trying to keep a hold of their renters, all those mails how they will defend them but then you just see renter carrier defense fleet getting slaughtered :D Arming renters to fight for the space they even pay for. And the best part are angry mails of Scarlet where she wants to kick everyone. I've noticed that a few renter corps have claimed sov in their rented systems because they know the owners can't actually prevent them from doing it, why pay for a system when you can just take it.
yeah exactly...if couple of corps living nearby would team up they can easily take over constelation or two. Or they could just live in that system, not pay rent, get kicked and keep living in that system while BOT or NA pays upkeeps. |
Dave Leadland
Honor and Ethics Keiretsu Kapital
6
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Posted - 2014.12.06 14:22:11 -
[84] - Quote
Only thing what this game should be nerfed is players ability to post anything what indicates suggesting a nerf. Renters has always been ingame and always will be. It's just now it is more available to everyone. So what is wrong letting some new/old Alliance or corp to go and enjoy fruits of 0.0 sec. Fee is fair, ISK income is fair. Only thing what isnt fair Is amount of drama what is created between renters. Either on language barrier or out of just pure silliness.
Now if some one really wants to stop rentals... a) Build up a corp b) Build up a Alliance c) Learn meta gaming d) Invade, dont let anyone in. e) Get disbanded by spies. f) Join corp that rents space what you holded earlier.
Such is cycle of eve. |
lost packet
GamCorp Almost Broken
20
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Posted - 2014.12.13 15:52:41 -
[85] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:This man clearly knows what he is talking about.
Maybe they should nerf the fuel capacity of carriers?
this |
Red Teufel
Mafia Redux
403
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Posted - 2014.12.14 15:58:05 -
[86] - Quote
It takes a good year or 2 for old mentalities to change in null. Much like the master/pet that dominiated prior to renting. Many of these groups will break off from renting and try to take their own space. CCP will help with that in the form of sov mechanic changes. |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
492
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 16:21:06 -
[87] - Quote
You fail to understand why they won't do this. People rent because it's easy, stress free sov. You pay a little every month for someone else to do the grunt work of sorting out the sov and protecting you.
People will always rent, there is nothing CCP can do to really stop that and why should they? It's a valid method of income for the land lords. Look at it this way, NCdotte cannot effectively defend their massive renter empire from a concerted effort by willing parties who wish to take it.
However effort appears to be the key word here. Despite all the hurf by all the people who want in on Sov and overjoyed at the changes in Pheobe, none of them have actually bothered to go and take some space, which could be easily taken right now. They're not willing to get a few hundred like minded people into a corporation and go and take it.
The old saying goes: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. |
Signal11th
1523
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 16:49:25 -
[88] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:You fail to understand why they won't do this. People rent because it's easy, stress free sov. You pay a little every month for someone else to do the grunt work of sorting out the sov and protecting you.
People will always rent, there is nothing CCP can do to really stop that and why should they? It's a valid method of income for the land lords. Look at it this way, NCdotte cannot effectively defend their massive renter empire from a concerted effort by willing parties who wish to take it.
However effort appears to be the key word here. Despite all the hurf by all the people who want in on Sov and overjoyed at the changes in Pheobe, none of them have actually bothered to go and take some space, which could be easily taken right now. They're not willing to get a few hundred like minded people into a corporation and go and take it.
The old saying goes: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
hum a bit of the old bob ideology creeping in there Goon boy, Renters don't rely on anyone to "protect them" tbh because renters will just pay whoever is in charge. Doesn't matter if it's goons/solar/nc whoever, if they will accept iskies for a system then it doesn't matter who is in charge.
"Someone" taking your region....can you rent off them.yes ok business as usual, if not you move somewhere else.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.....why drink when you can get someone to bring the water to you for a low sum every month.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
492
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Posted - 2014.12.15 23:05:23 -
[89] - Quote
I have literally no idea what you just said. |
Signal11th
1524
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 10:23:51 -
[90] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:I have literally no idea what you just said.
Oh well... You can show someone an instruction manual but it doesn't mean they will understand it, is that better? you seem to like your adages?
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
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