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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
493
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Posted - 2014.12.16 12:27:04 -
[91] - Quote
No, what you initially wrote still doesn't make any sense. |
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
463
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Posted - 2015.01.05 06:05:33 -
[92] - Quote
There are PVP players and PVE players. These are different types of players.
As long as there's going to be any PVE in 0.0 there will be renters simply because PVP players don't like to PVE as much and PVE players can't fight dedicated PVP players due to not having the right ships, skills, FCs, experience and org structure.
So it's a natural arrangement - effectively "rental lords" are the permanent military wings of PVE corps, just like in many corps there are military/home defense groups and industrial/PVE wings.
It's a basic consequence of skill and expertise specialization. Even required ship skills are often different for PVP and PVE. Often you actually need not just a different set of ships but a completely different pilot to do PVP or PVE. |
Agent Unknown
Night Theifs DamnedNation
3
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Posted - 2015.01.14 21:09:04 -
[93] - Quote
A lot of 0.0 space is just not worth taking either. I mean, aside from R64 moons and other lucrative things in a small number of systems (or it having an outpost), where's the point in "owning" a system?
As it stands, it's not worth it for an alliance to grind timers for days and risk billions in assets for little reward in return. Plus, even if they do, a larger alliance and just swoop in and steal it from under their noses because the new alliance will be without the basic protections (cyno jammers, etc).
I remember CSM mentioning that SOV changes are on CCP's priority list, so we'll see how that pans out. |
Signal11th
1654
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Posted - 2015.01.15 09:57:41 -
[94] - Quote
Agent Unknown wrote:A lot of 0.0 space is just not worth taking either. I mean, aside from R64 moons and other lucrative things in a small number of systems (or it having an outpost), where's the point in "owning" a system?
As it stands, it's not worth it for an alliance to grind timers for days and risk billions in assets for little reward in return. Plus, even if they do, a larger alliance and just swoop in and steal it from under their noses because the new alliance will be without the basic protections (cyno jammers, etc).
I remember CSM mentioning that SOV changes are on CCP's priority list, so we'll see how that pans out.
Pretty much this. I mean if you are exploring or doing sites you can pretty much fly anywhere (within reason) and just do them. Most systems are empty and you can fill your coffers to your hearts content.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
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Araxmas
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
5
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Posted - 2015.01.15 13:52:23 -
[95] - Quote
I get the feeling the OP really likes Star Citizen. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
470
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Posted - 2015.01.15 13:54:49 -
[96] - Quote
Agent Unknown wrote:A lot of 0.0 space is just not worth taking either. I mean, aside from R64 moons and other lucrative things in a small number of systems (or it having an outpost), where's the point in "owning" a system?
As it stands, it's not worth it for an alliance to grind timers for days and risk billions in assets for little reward in return. Plus, even if they do, a larger alliance and just swoop in and steal it from under their noses because the new alliance will be without the basic protections (cyno jammers, etc).
I remember CSM mentioning that SOV changes are on CCP's priority list, so we'll see how that pans out.
You are perfecty pointing out the current errors in the current sov mechanics. Profit for an alliance shouldn't come from "R64's or other lucrative things in a small number of systems". It should come from the people that live in it. Thriving alliances should be more profitable than anything else.
Spoiled with all the easy tech isk, look what happend to 0.0... An super armsrace. Owning systems to just own it, or perhaps rent it out. But looking at the sideaffects, by claiming it just to claim it, your basicly denying it to who ever else is there. Excluding the small fish and force them to rent. Denying them their own oppertunity to have complete sandbox fun. How Hyphocrite! How did you got there...?
Having, holding sov, should by my opinion be more unprofitable. Activity based: the more daily login's the cheaper the sov bill is in a specific system. Sov will become a favour instead of a tool for power, based around activity. The affects of such based sovsystem will have much needed energetic affects to 0.0. It is absolutly needed will a self sustainable nullsec ever succeed. More industrial branches of corps doing things, more miners to kill, rorq's to awox and freighters to kill. Easier pvp ships to get, more people around to shoot and more micro pvp to be had.
Did anyone ever wonder, why back in 2008, the daily log-in was the same but the large pvp battles were smaller sized? (and dont dare to say because of TiDi or server issues )
"Relativity equals time plus momentum: if it can be erased by a single click on a button, would it be worth spending it?"
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Araxmas
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
5
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Posted - 2015.01.15 16:47:42 -
[97] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Agent Unknown wrote:A lot of 0.0 space is just not worth taking either. I mean, aside from R64 moons and other lucrative things in a small number of systems (or it having an outpost), where's the point in "owning" a system?
As it stands, it's not worth it for an alliance to grind timers for days and risk billions in assets for little reward in return. Plus, even if they do, a larger alliance and just swoop in and steal it from under their noses because the new alliance will be without the basic protections (cyno jammers, etc).
I remember CSM mentioning that SOV changes are on CCP's priority list, so we'll see how that pans out. You are perfecty pointing out the current errors in the current sov mechanics. Profit for an alliance shouldn't come from "R64's or other lucrative things in a small number of systems". It should come from the people that live in it. Thriving alliances should be more profitable than anything else. Spoiled with all the easy tech isk, look what happend to 0.0... An super armsrace. Owning systems to just own it, or perhaps rent it out. But looking at the sideaffects, by claiming it just to claim it, your basicly denying it to who ever else is there. Excluding the small fish and force them to rent. Denying them their own oppertunity to have complete sandbox fun. How Hyphocrite! How did you got there...? Having, holding sov, should by my opinion be more unprofitable. Activity based: the more daily login's the cheaper the sov bill is in a specific system. Sov will become a favour instead of a tool for power, based around activity. The affects of such based sovsystem will have much needed energetic affects to 0.0. It is absolutly needed will a self sustainable nullsec ever succeed. More industrial branches of corps doing things, more miners to kill, rorq's to awox and freighters to kill. Easier pvp ships to get, more people around to shoot and more micro pvp to be had. Did anyone ever wonder, why back in 2008, the daily log-in was the same but the large pvp battles were smaller sized? (and dont dare to say because of TiDi or server issues )
Would be good if they did something like tying the sovreignty timers to how active the system is. A backwater place with barely any contact might be conqurable within a third of the time but an active system would be the full timer. Activity could be boosted simply by having the system count how many unique alliance members enter that system a day (thus causing players to form patrol fleets to keep the activity topped up along the frontiers). |
Andres Talas
Corporate Scum Brave Collective
147
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Posted - 2015.01.19 05:25:05 -
[98] - Quote
Midnight Firestarter wrote:I rent because its the only way I get to have fun in 0.0 and play the game.
If we turned up and started doing x in system y then we would last 10 seconds.
Give us a solution
1. Move to Providence - it's ****** space, but you arent paying rent. You might want to talk to their diplos first, and make sure you arent Kill On Sight.
2. Move to Scalding Pass - Gorgon/Meow have freeported all the stations there. You might want to talk to their diplos first, to make sure you understand their NIP deal and what it means.
3. Apply to one of the many CFC alliances with low recruiting standards. You may have a different view about how terrible they are once you see them from the inside.
4. Have a look at Hero Coalition, including Brave Collective and Test Alliance. Also ****** space, but theres a rumour our recruiting standards arent high.
5. Investigate how much Black Frog would charge to move your stuff, and 20 combat cruisers each, to a fine NPC region like Stain or Venal. |
Theodoric Darkwind
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
317
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Posted - 2015.01.21 05:26:31 -
[99] - Quote
Andres Talas wrote:
1. Move to Providence - it's ****** space, but you arent paying rent. You might want to talk to their diplos first, and make sure you arent Kill On Sight.
2. Move to Scalding Pass - Gorgon/Meow have freeported all the stations there. You might want to talk to their diplos first, to make sure you understand their NIP deal and what it means.
3. Apply to one of the many CFC alliances with low recruiting standards. You may have a different view about how terrible they are once you see them from the inside.
4. Have a look at Hero Coalition, including Brave Collective and Test Alliance. Also ****** space, but theres a rumour our recruiting standards arent high.
5. Investigate how much Black Frog would charge to move your stuff, and 20 combat cruisers each, to a fine NPC region like Stain or Venal.
Renting is mostly for PvErs who only want to make isk. We will gladly take their isk because it pays for a lot of nice thingsGäó we get in the CFC (i.e. good SRP, capital subsidies/free fuel, etc.). Plus they are mostly taking space that would otherwise sit unused. |
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
326
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Posted - 2015.01.26 17:43:51 -
[100] - Quote
So, just as a thought, if the problem is excessive supercap proliferation, one answer seems to be that the tech race of the capital warfare meta needs to continue. You can't really go bigger than titan, but you can go smaller.
It might be getting about time for EVE to get an anti-capital torpedo boat equivalent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_boat).
Something like a dessie sized ship that has a (relatively) high damage weapon that only is able to target capitals and up would do quite a bit to democratize the playing field.
Lord Admiral of PIE inc. | -áRecruitment Information | Public Forum | Neocom channel: "PIE Public" | Amarr Victor!
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2680
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 04:20:19 -
[101] - Quote
We came to this organically. And what it all boils down to really is supercaps. The expectation that cost would be an ideal balancing factor in an entire class of ship was ********. More supercaps were built last year than have been destroyed in the game EVER.
This means if you want to take and defend a region you need more supercaps than a theoretical invading force would have. This means you need money, which in turn encourages you to take more space in order to rent it out and build more supercaps.
Mix this in with phoebe making supercaps basically unusable for anything but defense due to their travel limitations and you have this fun cold war situation we have now. Everyone has enough to basically defend what they own with impunity, but no one is willing to go through the assgrinding impossibility of moving their **** around for offensive operations.
With the next sov revamp I expect most renter space to be on fire. We'll see how that turns out. |
Flaming Butterfly
Black Serpent Technologies Black Legion.
4
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Posted - 2015.03.26 14:43:18 -
[102] - Quote
Delete supers and give each player 10 billion as compensation.
Send in the Jovians to start capturing npc stations and destroying Outposts starting in Drone land as some twisted purge/punishment, then into Stain where the screaming started with Sansha and resetting 0.0 to some degree. Alliances are asked to declare a safe-station -a home- which will not be devastated by the Drifters when they begin their purge. Outposts, Pos, etc... demolished with blinding speed by Drifter, Domination Dreads, Sleepers. Space is rendered largely empty.
Players get introduced to the new structure system of living outside stations/outposts. Space is not so much 'claimed' but simply lived in. 0.0 then has pockets of invading sleepers and drifters roaming and hacking gates to further disrupt rebuilding.
The greater the concentration of capsuleers, the greater the danger of drifter assault. Want to claim empty constellations... go after the Drifter listening post or whatever and drifter fleets. Learn ways to overcome.
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Blodi deVriis
TIME WARP Corp New Eden Terraform Alliance
0
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Posted - 2015.06.15 07:47:54 -
[103] - Quote
To satisfy the wet dreams of some individuals to hold power, the gameplay of many is reduced to the level of (mining) drones. The game should offer everybody the opportunity to do everything!
One control tower per moon? Remove it! Everything immediatley visible on D-scan? Make ships and structures hard to detect, even add cloaks to stations. Ninja (moon) mining must become an option. Have ressources (moon goo) deplete with a time constant. It will be possible to get a fast return on invest, but it will not be possible to place forerver-ISK-making machines.
Divide et impera! Reduce the size, corps and especially alliances may have. Instead of a few dominating alliances, a lot of competing entities must be created again. Remove super capitals. If someone wants to project force, he shall set up a large fleet. Additionally battleships and carriers would make more sense again.
Remove sov completely. If someone wants to "control" space, he should be forced to set up patrols, and actually control it. The concept of "sov" is so far away from reality, it even does not make sense for a game.
Space is vast, and the game should reflect it. A lot more systems should be added. I would like to travel through systems for days without meeting a living soul.
Large scale indsutrial operations. On demand, on time, on budget.
Selling: T2 ships and components. Buying: minerals, salvage, datacores.
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Talurion
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:00:59 -
[104] - Quote
I'm waiting the day when renters will understand that they can outnumber their masters and will break their chains. But I guess there are a lot of people that keeps their RL attitude in videogames "our freedom for our safety".
It is now pl/n3, not PL/N3 (sacrificed all their caps)
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6725
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 07:37:19 -
[105] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:With the next sov revamp I expect most renter space to be on fire. We'll see how that turns out. Our renter program came back VoV
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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insanebe
Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.07.19 11:31:00 -
[106] - Quote
bring back the old smart Bomb Doomsday weapon but this time have it strong enough to destroy capital fleets
This turns the Titans into giant suicide ships |
Beautiful Frelcia
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
43
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Posted - 2015.07.23 15:57:27 -
[107] - Quote
insanebe wrote:bring back the old smart Bomb Doomsday weapon but this time have it strong enough to destroy capital fleets This turns the Titans into giant suicide ships
And? Sorry i have missed the point.... |
WarFireV
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
420
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Posted - 2015.07.24 17:01:07 -
[108] - Quote
Does someone really need a point? |
Athryn Bellee
Concordiat Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
52
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Posted - 2015.07.26 23:45:13 -
[109] - Quote
If capitals aren't as useful for capturing systems are the phoebe changes still needed? |
Dynast
Caldari Privateers Group Templis CALSF
114
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 11:03:53 -
[110] - Quote
Tirabi wrote:so what exactly was it that change so much to fall into this sorta chaos?
I remember the days of all of 0.0 held by alliances and most owned the whole region, everyone was at war with one another and it was a nice place to pvp in. The "good old days" where when, or operated on inertia from, the years when there was no "jumping" past dozens of gates. Remove jump everything, do away with the concept of jumping (Sansha did it with trans-space disruptor tech, whatever) and require all ships to navigate via gates again, and the old dynamics could be possible again. |
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takedoom
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
77
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Posted - 2015.10.08 15:24:02 -
[111] - Quote
Every time I read a thread about concepts and how the game should be played really makes me cringe. The game was advertised as a ******* sandbox. Half of null is renters because that is how it played out. Don't like it? You can change it by grouping up with like minded players and starting ****. Or you can be a giant pussy and petition CCP until they kill the game some more.
http://spinthatdamnship.ytmnd.com/
I am not a thief. I am a treasure hunter.
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Gary Bell
Herp Inc.dot Darwinism.
147
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Posted - 2015.10.10 14:39:24 -
[112] - Quote
Why do you keep posting in this old ass thread the forum is dead go away random scrub who goes back 134 pages to post things |
Crystalline Entity
Outdated Host Productions Mortum Ravagers
26
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Posted - 2015.10.13 12:45:10 -
[113] - Quote
Gary Bell wrote:Why do you keep posting in this old ass thread the forum is dead go away random scrub who goes back 134 pages to post things
Bump |
Tirabi
Primary Industries TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
8
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Posted - 2015.10.14 02:54:09 -
[114] - Quote
I have just seen this thread again and its still ongoing!
wtf!
CCP can u please just lock it now, I think everyone has had there opinion on the matter and tbh we aren't getting anywhere and the whole renting thing has been explained.
Now its upto CCP to organise how they want to structure the game if they want to reduce renting or want people to start invading others space. |
Temugen
Caldari Fire Demons Elite Demons Playground
0
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Posted - 2015.11.09 22:10:03 -
[115] - Quote
Blodi deVriis wrote:To satisfy the wet dreams of some individuals to hold power, the gameplay of many is reduced to the level of (mining) drones. The game should offer everybody the opportunity to do everything!
One control tower per moon? Remove it! Everything immediatley visible on D-scan? Make ships and structures hard to detect, even add cloaks to stations. Ninja (moon) mining must become an option. Have ressources (moon goo) deplete with a time constant. It will be possible to get a fast return on invest, but it will not be possible to place forerver-ISK-making machines.
Divide et impera! Reduce the size, corps and especially alliances may have. Instead of a few dominating alliances, a lot of competing entities must be created again. Remove super capitals. If someone wants to project force, he shall set up a large fleet. Additionally battleships and carriers would make more sense again.
Remove sov completely. If someone wants to "control" space, he should be forced to set up patrols, and actually control it. The concept of "sov" is so far away from reality, it even does not make sense for a game.
Space is vast, and the game should reflect it. A lot more systems should be added. I would like to travel through systems for days without meeting a living soul.
This |
takedoom
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
79
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Posted - 2015.11.11 05:10:13 -
[116] - Quote
Gary Bell wrote:Why do you keep posting in this old ass thread the forum is dead go away random scrub who goes back 134 pages to post things
I post where I want and when I want. Go press f1 for daddy now.
http://spinthatdamnship.ytmnd.com/
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6880
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 22:17:56 -
[117] - Quote
takedoom wrote:Every time I read a thread about concepts and how the game should be played really makes me cringe. The game was advertised as a ******* sandbox. Half of null is renters because that is how it played out. Don't like it? You can change it by grouping up with like minded players and starting ****. Or you can be a giant pussy and petition CCP until they kill the game some more. Petition? Just make a post in CAOD where it'll be so ignored it isn't even locked for ranting or whatever
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall.
We just need more coalitions to exist to destroy them, more legions to be paid off, more lasersov, more something!!
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aldhura
Bartledannians
22
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Posted - 2015.12.21 23:38:10 -
[118] - Quote
Renting has all the benefits of null sov without the politics and drama... why would you not rent ??
Bartledannians are recruiting.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6150832#post6150832
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Sephiroth CloneIIV
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
159
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Posted - 2015.12.29 02:02:29 -
[119] - Quote
its been that way for a while, bob had pet alliances, and drone renters in the east. And the old northern co did it too more or less (some full members, some part members, some literal renters).
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Sephiroth Clone VII
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
159
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Posted - 2015.12.29 02:02:29 -
[120] - Quote
its been that way for a while, bob had pet alliances, and drone renters in the east. And the old northern co did it too more or less (some full members, some part members, some literal renters).
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