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Matar Ronin
321
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Posted - 2014.05.19 17:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
It seems to be quite the fashion here on IGS to speak of GÇ£otherGÇ¥ people, our fellow humans, as if they are somehow by the very nature of their birth within certain political spheres or ethnic groups somehow lesser then whatever group or category we were either born into or migrated to ourselves.
I would like to put that foolish notion to rest once and for all, humans as a specie are generally equal in capacity on average. There is no legitimate quantifiable empirical data that has ever indicated otherwise.
Certainly political & religious spheres create patterns of social behavior that become readily identifiable with some people raised under their influence, but these are just that, patterns of behavior, not inate genetic destiny or limitations.
I would like to challenge all those who speak here on IGS to meet the minimum standard of intellectual honesty when posting about groups of people that are GÇ£otherGÇ¥ than themselves, to apply all the rights, privileges, capacity, and humanity they attribute to themselves to the GÇ£othersGÇ¥ equally. If that standard is met I think it will elevate the overall conversation here on IGS.
The popular and powerful religious, nationalistic, and ethnic chest thumping will have it's place as indicators of our individual patterns of behavior but they will no longer be allowed to masquerade as proven scientific facts.
I will attempt to have my future posts reflect this more intellectually balanced standard and I both invite and challenge you to join me in doing so. GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ |
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
503
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Posted - 2014.05.19 17:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Speaking of intellectual dishonesty and saying there aren't quantifiable differences in education, intelligence, social standards, culture, wealth and other rather important factors between ethnic, social, cultural and national factions in the same post? Genetics certainly determine a significant portion of your capacity and so does upbringing, training, instilled values etc.
If you really think holding hands around a fire and singing "We Are New Eden!" will ever happen, you need therapy. We all have some standards and views that others will never reach and pretending they're anything else will be detrimental to everyone involved. Factions, ethnicities and nations will never consider each other to be equal. Superior or inferior, sure.
That's what gives people in the cluster something to reach for and those who succeed will be better. Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
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Matar Ronin
322
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Posted - 2014.05.19 18:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jinari Otsito wrote:Speaking of intellectual dishonesty and saying there aren't quantifiable differences in education, intelligence, social standards, culture, wealth and other rather important factors between ethnic, social, cultural and national factions in the same post? Genetics certainly determine a significant portion of your capacity and so does upbringing, training, instilled values etc.
If you really think holding hands around a fire and singing "We Are New Eden!" will ever happen, you need therapy. We all have some standards and views that others will never reach and pretending they're anything else will be detrimental to everyone involved. Factions, ethnicities and nations will never consider each other to be equal. Superior or inferior, sure.
That's what gives people in the cluster something to reach for and those who succeed will be better. Perhaps I was unclear, I am referring to all humans as a single specie. There have been born into every race, religion, and nationality both geniuses and morons. None have a quantifiable legitimate claim that their specific subset has a claim above any other.
The standard allows a more balanced comparison on how some nations are performing in terms of the successfulness of their educational methods or culture when you strip away the bias that comes from viewing them as lesser or betters.
The only hand holding I hope to foster is of intellectual honesty on the IGS amongst we capsuleers, in space we will continue to pod each other as situations dictate to further our individual goals.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ |
N'maro Makari
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
436
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Posted - 2014.05.19 18:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aren't you the guy who tried to start his own religion here? Vherokior-á |
Pieter Tuulinen
Verdant Inquiries Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
3646
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 18:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't know... The Caldari do practice Eugenics to a certain degree - but I'm willing to stipulate that the effects of the Tubechild program probably only amount to a few percentage points of difference, given how few Caldari enjoy the benefits of it.
Are you willing to accept that stipulation? "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4648
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Posted - 2014.05.19 18:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
I hold that all races and bloodlines within this cluster are "equal" in that they are all equally deserving of respect, dignity and opportunity to pursue prosperity, liberty and happiness. As collective entities, there is no ethnic group more or less deserving of these things than anyone else.
Any statement beyond that tends to get into the idea that races and bloodlines are biologically equal as well, which simply isn't true. Mane 614
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
543
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 18:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
N'maro Makari wrote:Aren't you the guy who tried to start his own religion here?
I do not think that should have any relation to the points brought forth in this thread? I do not understand the need of posters on this forum to always distract from the topics and points raised.
On the topic: I do not believe everyone is equal. But it remains proper social behavior to address all others with decorum and respect regardless, and I believe this is what is most important for the facilitation of intellectually honest discourse. |
ValentinaDLM
Zaratha Zarati Shaktipat Revelators
532
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 20:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Everyone has the capacity to be useful, even if they themselves don't yet see it. To me, that is good enough, as I know regardless of who they are eventually a use will be found for them. |
N'maro Makari
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
439
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 21:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:N'maro Makari wrote:Aren't you the guy who tried to start his own religion here? I do not think that should have any relation to the points brought forth in this thread? I do not understand the need of posters on this forum to always distract from the topics and points raised.
Call it an irritation with preachers. Vherokior-á |
Erica Dusette
Rolled Out
7809
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 21:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
An admirable thing to aspire to. Although kinda naive, ah.
There's little point coming to a discussion venue and asking the entirely of New Eden to change it's cultural bias. Get out into space, start there if you want to change the galaxy. Visit the military academies, the trade hubs, the disputed systems, the schools. Meet with government officials, community leaders.
Here in IGS your intentions will merely become fodder for the very people you despise.
Major (Ret.) Caldari Militia | Part-time wormhole pirate | Full-time super model Gÿá Wormhole Diary | GÖí #420roloswag
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Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1186
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 21:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Can they? Yes.
Will they? I wouldn't count on it. Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
413
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Posted - 2014.05.19 22:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aaaaaaannnd, que Kimmy to tell us why this is wrong and why the Federation must be destroyed.
Then Nappy to do the same.... The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Matar Ronin
323
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Posted - 2014.05.19 22:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
My sincere thanks to all who accepted either my invitation or challenge! To those who did not ..... well that is the nature of invitations and challenges, you are under no obligation to accept them!
In my opinion your opinion has merit.
I look forward to better communication of ideas and exchanges of perspectives between all those willing to try. GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ |
Matar Ronin
323
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 22:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I don't know... The Caldari do practice Eugenics to a certain degree - but I'm willing to stipulate that the effects of the Tubechild program probably only amount to a few percentage points of difference, given how few Caldari enjoy the benefits of it.
Are you willing to accept that stipulation? As a former Kameira I certainly would not argue against the scientific validity of eugenics to emphasize certain traits. However the only stipulation required would be that eugenics programs are a way to emphasize certain traits and they of course could be implemented by any government who decided for whatever reason good or bad to introduce them into their population. GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ |
Pieter Tuulinen
Verdant Inquiries Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
3649
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 01:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I don't know... The Caldari do practice Eugenics to a certain degree - but I'm willing to stipulate that the effects of the Tubechild program probably only amount to a few percentage points of difference, given how few Caldari enjoy the benefits of it.
Are you willing to accept that stipulation? As a former Kameira I certainly would not argue against the scientific validity of eugenics to emphasize certain traits. However the only stipulation required would be that eugenics programs are a way to emphasize certain traits and they of course could be implemented by any government who decided for whatever reason good or bad to introduce them into their population.
Fair enough. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Chinwe Rhei
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
97
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 04:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Our cultures arose during tens of thousands of years of isolation on different plants in sometimes radically different environments. And enviroement shapes everything, culture, biology, psychology.
Yes we share a common origin (genetics and archeology suggest), but technically i'm just as distantly related to an Amarrian as i am to my fellow human cousins the Sleeper or the Jove. Are you including them too when you imply that our differences are just politics and opinions ?
No, i suspect they may run much deeper than many people are comfortable thinking about. We'd all like to believe that the Amarrian deficit of humanity and predilection for evil is a consequence of religious indoctrination, but what if it isn't ? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1084
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 06:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:It seems to be quite the fashion here on IGS to speak of GÇ£otherGÇ¥ people, our fellow humans, as if they are somehow by the very nature of their birth within certain political spheres or ethnic groups somehow lesser then whatever group or category we were either born into or migrated to ourselves.
I would like to put that foolish notion to rest once and for all, humans as a specie are generally equal in capacity on average. There is no legitimate quantifiable empirical data that has ever indicated otherwise.
Certainly political & religious spheres create patterns of social behavior that become readily identifiable with some people raised under their influence, but these are just that, patterns of behavior, not inate genetic destiny or limitations.
I would like to challenge all those who speak here on IGS to meet the minimum standard of intellectual honesty when posting about groups of people that are GÇ£otherGÇ¥ than themselves, to apply all the rights, privileges, capacity, and humanity they attribute to themselves to the GÇ£othersGÇ¥ equally. If that standard is met I think it will elevate the overall conversation here on IGS.
The popular and powerful religious, nationalistic, and ethnic chest thumping will have it's place as indicators of our individual patterns of behavior but they will no longer be allowed to masquerade as proven scientific facts.
I will attempt to have my future posts reflect this more intellectually balanced standard and I both invite and challenge you to join me in doing so. To be honest, I never met an alive Minmatar before I became a capsuleer. I knew that they exist somewhere, and that they have Minmatar Republic somewhere in the space. But nobody here really cared about them, who they are and what they were doing. There were some reports about business with minmatar corporation here and there, that's all the information we had.
My opinion about your peoples is a consequence of analysis of behaviour of minmatar people, their abilities, their manners, their honor, their tendencies to keep words and deals, or, more likely, not keeping them. All these actions, all these peoples I met, made my mind about Minmatar people. Most of information was provided by such peoples like Ayallah, Anabella Rella, and so on.
After talks with them, I am pretty sure, that I really don't want to discuss important things with peoples who have "intellect of a Brutor", or "honor of a Sebiestor".
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Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
189
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
As I have explained in lately revealed True Scripture, the Minmatar were not created equal to the Amarr.
The Minmatar were not, as were the Amarr, formed from the primordial Blood, but from the dung of the Fedo. Their land, Pator, was shrouded in darkness and error. They cursed God from the beginning. God never meant them to be anything other than slave labor and material for sacrifice.
Had the Chosen people of God not gone liberal and eaten from the Tree of Mercy, this situation would have persisted forever. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
2211
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Unfortunately, this is a place more of rhetoric than honesty, and the sooner you come to realize that the better the plays you will be able to make. |
Lucien Marbot
27
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Posted - 2014.05.20 16:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Aaaaaaannnd, que Kimmy to tell us why this is wrong and why the Federation must be destroyed.
Then Nappy to do the same.... You are a prophet! Both of those bottom feeders showed up in the order you called for. Truly they demonstrates that stupidity is not exclusive to any one racial group. Death is nothing more then the searing pain of rebirth. |
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Johanes Beaumonte
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
29
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Posted - 2014.05.20 17:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:It seems to be quite the fashion here on IGS to speak of GÇ£otherGÇ¥ people, our fellow humans, as if they are somehow by the very nature of their birth within certain political spheres or ethnic groups somehow lesser then whatever group or category we were either born into or migrated to ourselves.
I would like to put that foolish notion to rest once and for all, humans as a specie are generally equal in capacity on average. There is no legitimate quantifiable empirical data that has ever indicated otherwise.
Certainly political & religious spheres create patterns of social behavior that become readily identifiable with some people raised under their influence, but these are just that, patterns of behavior, not inate genetic destiny or limitations.
I would like to challenge all those who speak here on IGS to meet the minimum standard of intellectual honesty when posting about groups of people that are GÇ£otherGÇ¥ than themselves, to apply all the rights, privileges, capacity, and humanity they attribute to themselves to the GÇ£othersGÇ¥ equally. If that standard is met I think it will elevate the overall conversation here on IGS.
The popular and powerful religious, nationalistic, and ethnic chest thumping will have it's place as indicators of our individual patterns of behavior but they will no longer be allowed to masquerade as proven scientific facts.
I will attempt to have my future posts reflect this more intellectually balanced standard and I both invite and challenge you to join me in doing so.
This is the IGS. Not possible. Might as well try to cast swine before girls. Or is it cast pearls before swine? I can never remember. |
Wendrika
Almatter Foundation
24
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Posted - 2014.05.20 17:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Everyone says that I'm suposed to be smart and good with machines, but I'm not. Is that bad? Is that being dishonest? I'd love the be brave, strong and an excellent pilot, I really would! But right now I'm just content of being able to afford a research laboratory filled with gadgets and gizmos for me to play with and a ship to fly in. And I got to meet so many people in the meantime.
Like Mister Nauplius for example. He is a mean monster, that says he hates me for being born the way I am, but I don't hate him or even dislike him. He is very passionate with his scriptures and preaching, however, but he could use more friends. I'd be more friendly to him if he didn't thought of it as an insult.
Miss Kim on the other hand, is the coolest pilot I know and I want to be just as cool as her! She takes no nonsense from anyone, loves the people she protects and upholds their way of life! Like a superhero! Everyone thinks she is wierd and overzealous though, and like to make fun of her way of thinking. I don't think that's very nice...
But I figure if everyone I meet in space is on top of the transhumanism pyramid, being quirky and passionate about their lives and activities is the only way we can stand out as individuals. And that's okay! We should accept everyone for what they are, even if we think what they do is wrong. |
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
354
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 17:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
It is Written, in the Apocryphon, that All may become Chosen, that All people are Equal in Gods Kingdom.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1085
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 18:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Synthetic Cultist wrote:It is Written, in the Apocryphon, that All may become Chosen, that All people are Equal in Gods Kingdom.
Please don't forget, that gallenteans shouldn't be considered as people, beucause they are not humans, but subhumans.
Oh, and sanshas are just brainless drones, run by programs or commands through their network. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2494
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 20:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Wait... Matar Ronin making sense?!
Good grief, there may be hope that the Minmatar Empire finally stops it's war against the Amarrian Federation someday after all.
Also, anyone else notice anything weird happening with their clone infomorph transfer thingies lately?
http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0 |
N'maro Makari
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
442
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 21:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Wait... Matar Ronin making sense?!
Good grief, there may be hope that the Minmatar Empire finally stops it's war against the Amarrian Federation someday after all.
Also, anyone else notice anything weird happening with their clone infomorph transfer thingies lately?
The words "Amarrian" and "Federation" don't seem to sit well together. Rather confusing, but probably a mistake. Vherokior-á |
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
512
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 21:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
I was slightly more perturbed by the "Minmatar Empire". Apparently something awesome went down and I missed out on it. Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Verdant Inquiries Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
3651
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 21:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jinari Otsito wrote:I was slightly more perturbed by the "Minmatar Empire". Apparently something awesome went down and I missed out on it.
Them damn Sebbies took over, finally, huh? "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
512
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 21:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
So now it's only a matter of time before every Minmatar space station and possibly planet is fitted with fantastic MWDs and able to fly circles around our frigates. I'm not even going to think about the autocannons.
If you'll excuse me, I'll have to go lay waste to my stocks of recreational and professional narcotics so I can await ragnarok in comfort. Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
550
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 21:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Jinari Otsito wrote:I was slightly more perturbed by the "Minmatar Empire". Apparently something awesome went down and I missed out on it. Them damn Sebbies took over, finally, huh?
It's the Sebiestor Plot. |
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