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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
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CCP Bayesian
1042
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Posted - 2014.05.20 11:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Sisi should be updated today and I went and pulled the trigger to remove the loot scattering mechanic from the Exploration Sites. I've also reverted most of the doubled rewards. Some need to be done manually by our designers so consider what you're getting out of the sites as WIP. It works pretty much as before but with the Hacking mechanic remaining. Simply hack the site to gain access to the cargo hold of your target.
We've tested quite a lot internally but there are likely to be some rough edges somewhere. Any feedback you guys can give me is greatly appreciated. EVE Software Engineer Team Kuromaku |
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Sugar Kyle
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
587
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Posted - 2014.05.20 11:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yay! Low Sec Lifestyle - A Blog |
Scatha
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
20
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Posted - 2014.05.20 11:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
So long spew containers, don't let the door hit you on the way out. |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
385
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Posted - 2014.05.20 11:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Very cool. Was never a fan of the loot scattering mechanic. Didn't really 'fit' with how we do most of our actions in space in Eve. www.crossingzebras.com |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1417
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Posted - 2014.05.20 11:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:Very cool. Was never a fan of the loot scattering mechanic. Didn't really 'fit' with how we do most of our actions in space in Eve.
not that the whole team up for maximum yield thing was a bad idea, it just didn't work for a bunch of reasons, this is one of them.
good to see it go away, now let's talk about expanding the minigame :D GRRR Goons |
Noriko Mai
1357
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Posted - 2014.05.20 11:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:Very cool. Was never a fan of the loot scattering mechanic. Didn't really 'fit' with how we do most of our actions in space in Eve. not that the whole team up for maximum yield thing was a bad idea, it just didn't work for a bunch of reasons, this is one of them. good to see it go away, now let's talk about expanding the minigame :D Let's add "Insta finish that minigame Tokens" to the new store. |
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
171
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Posted - 2014.05.20 12:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Sisi should be updated today and I went and pulled the trigger to remove the loot scattering mechanic from the Exploration Sites. I've also reverted most of the doubled rewards. Some need to be done manually by our designers so consider what you're getting out of the sites as WIP. It works pretty much as before but with the Hacking mechanic remaining. Simply hack the site to gain access to the cargo hold of your target.
We've tested quite a lot internally but there are likely to be some rough edges somewhere. Any feedback you guys can give me is greatly appreciated.
Here is my feedback:
Personally, I do NOT share the distaste for the loot explosion. But it is certainly ok to remove it again.
BUT. Please don't cut the loot tables in half! Clever players were - even solo - able to get like 80% of the loot all the time (cargo scanner+choosing the right cans). The main thing you did with the loot explosion was that you GREATLY increased the supply for T2 salvage materials (and ESPECIALLY the rare, wanted ones since explorers are ofc first targetting the expensive stuff). Please have a look at the prices for T2 rigs in the last year. They were finally reasonable fitting options to consider in any situation. Which was imo one of the cool (although stealth) improvements in Odyssey. If you reduce the loot by 50%, you will pretty much kill off the use of those 300+ items again! (granted, some of this MAY be offset by more ppl doing exploration if the prices explode,but then again, they'll just find half as many items).
Just have a look at the F&I threadnaught about JF and Freighter rebalancing. The prices for Single-Crystal Superalloy I-Beams went through the roof after the announcement. Yet they are less than 20% (!!) of what they used to be before Odyssey (remember selling them for 8-10mil apiece).
So please, tune the loot down a bit if you feel you must, but not by 50% (maybe 10-20% would more realistically reflect what a good explorer today loses to the loot scattering mechanism).
And no, I am NOT doing exploration (tested it in length though after the Odyssey release, so I hope I know what I am talking about). |
Noriko Mai
1357
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Posted - 2014.05.20 12:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Sisi should be updated today and I went and pulled the trigger to remove the loot scattering mechanic from the Exploration Sites. I've also reverted most of the doubled rewards. Some need to be done manually by our designers so consider what you're getting out of the sites as WIP. It works pretty much as before but with the Hacking mechanic remaining. Simply hack the site to gain access to the cargo hold of your target.
We've tested quite a lot internally but there are likely to be some rough edges somewhere. Any feedback you guys can give me is greatly appreciated. Here is my feedback: Personally, I do NOT share the distaste for the loot explosion. But it is certainly ok to remove it again. BUT. Please don't cut the loot tables in half! Clever players were - even solo - able to get like 80% of the loot all the time (cargo scanner+choosing the right cans). The main thing you did with the loot explosion was that you GREATLY increased the supply for T2 salvage materials (and ESPECIALLY the rare, wanted ones since explorers are ofc first targetting the expensive stuff). Please have a look at the prices for T2 rigs in the last year. They were finally reasonable fitting options to consider in any situation. Which was imo one of the cool (although stealth) improvements in Odyssey. If you reduce the loot by 50%, you will pretty much kill off the use of those 300+ items again! (granted, some of this MAY be offset by more ppl doing exploration if the prices explode,but then again, they'll just find half as many items). Just have a look at the F&I threadnaught about JF and Freighter rebalancing. The prices for Single-Crystal Superalloy I-Beams went through the roof after the announcement. Yet they are less than 20% (!!) of what they used to be before Odyssey (remember selling them for 8-10mil apiece). So please, tune the loot down a bit if you feel you must, but not by 50% (maybe 10-20% would more realistically reflect what a good explorer today loses to the loot scattering mechanism). And no, I am NOT doing exploration (tested it in length though after the Odyssey release, so I hope I know what I am talking about). I quit exploration because of loot spew. It was just too annoying. With that removed I may do it again. So the reduction may be compensated a bit by more people doing exploration again. |
Orla- King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
53
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Posted - 2014.05.20 13:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Agreed, that splosion was really irritating. I'll have to try this again now that it's gone. |
Marcus Iunius Brutus
NerdRage Inc.
37
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Posted - 2014.05.20 13:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
I can't see your statistics but I can assume that any reasonable explorer was able to get all the worthwhile loot from data sites (less from relic sites) - most of the time only 1 type of can had notable loot (parts), sometimes data. If you reduce decryptor drop rate by half their price will go through the roof... |
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Burneddi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
101
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Posted - 2014.05.20 13:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Sisi should be updated today and I went and pulled the trigger to remove the loot scattering mechanic from the Exploration Sites. I've also reverted most of the doubled rewards. Some need to be done manually by our designers so consider what you're getting out of the sites as WIP. It works pretty much as before but with the Hacking mechanic remaining. Simply hack the site to gain access to the cargo hold of your target.
We've tested quite a lot internally but there are likely to be some rough edges somewhere. Any feedback you guys can give me is greatly appreciated. Here is my feedback: Personally, I do NOT share the distaste for the loot explosion. But it is certainly ok to remove it again. BUT. Please don't cut the loot tables in half! And no, I am NOT doing exploration (tested it in length though after the Odyssey release, so I hope I know what I am talking about). Counter-intuitively, the removal of half of the loot will probably not do much to the income of explorers. If the prices explode and they'll just find half as many items, there may be little to no effect after a transition phase. The effect will be another: Clever players were - even solo - able to get like 80% of the loot all the time (cargo scanner+choosing the right cans). The main thing you did with the loot explosion was that you GREATLY increased the supply for T2 salvage materials (and ESPECIALLY the rare, wanted ones since explorers are ofc first targetting the expensive stuff). Please have a look at the prices for T2 rigs in the last year. They were finally reasonable fitting options to consider in any situation. Which was imo one of the cool (although stealth) improvements in Odyssey. If you reduce the loot by 50%, you will pretty much kill off the usage of those 300+ items again! Just have a look at the F&I threadnaught about JF and Freighter rebalancing. The prices for Single-Crystal Superalloy I-Beams went through the roof after the announcement. Yet they are less than 20% (!!) of what they used to be before Odyssey (remember selling them for 8-10mil apiece). So please, tune the loot down a bit if you feel you must, but not by 50% (maybe 10-20% would more realistically reflect what a good explorer today loses to the loot scattering mechanism). Quoting this for truth. Any explorer worth their salt would get practically all of the loot from the cans by knowing which cans were worth clicking on in the loot spill minigame.
If you're halving the loot tables, you're essentially halving the supply of these sites. I know the doubling thing was initially done because you guys thought people wouldn't be able to get all of the good loot from the site alone, but it ended up being one of the better changes in Odyssey. |
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CCP Bayesian
1044
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Posted - 2014.05.20 13:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
As I said above the loot balancing is a WIP but I'll make sure your feedback reaches the right ears. I'm pretty sure we don't want to ruin any serendipitous benefits of the changes we made. EVE Software Engineer Team Kuromaku |
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RcTamiya Leontis
Satan's Unicorns
22
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Posted - 2014.05.20 13:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Some people may hate me now... but why not get a wastefactof build in depending on how well you do in the minigame and rework the minigame a little bit, instead of removing loot (i am happy loot scattering gets removed :) ) |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1417
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Posted - 2014.05.20 13:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:I can't see your statistics but I can assume that any reasonable explorer was able to get all the worthwhile loot from data sites (less from relic sites) - most of the time only 1 type of can had notable loot (parts), sometimes data. If you reduce decryptor drop rate by half their price will go through the roof...
don't forget that greyscale et al. have some significant changes for invention planned. everything industry is about to change and it's really hard to make some prediction on the actual outcome. GRRR Goons |
Sir Constantin
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.05.20 13:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Please add some rats or make it how it was a few years ago when even HS exploration was nice and rewarding. |
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
173
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Posted - 2014.05.20 14:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:Some people may hate me now... but why not get a wastefactof build in depending on how well you do in the minigame and rework the minigame a little bit, instead of removing loot (i am happy loot scattering gets removed :) )
Well, the answer will be that there are no ressources for this now, but for spicing up the hacking minigame, I would like to advertise my earlier proposals here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4278637#post4278637 |
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
173
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Posted - 2014.05.20 14:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sir Constantin wrote:Please add some rats or make it how it was a few years ago when even HS exploration was nice and rewarding.
Why would one want this? This is finally some PvE content that is NOT based on dumb shooting red crosses. If you still want to train Gunnery and/or kill rats, there is a ton of other sites out there. |
Nick Starkey
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
49
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Posted - 2014.05.20 14:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Loot sprew was trivial to master with just a little practice and the environmental implant... Now you reduce drop rates by half and exploration income is nerfed greatly (because there was hardly a reason to miss a can before), and as a consequence T2 rigs are back to their ridiculous prices. Explorer ganking is also almost impossible now as it requires no real attention anymore.
meh |
Corey Edward
Under Heavy Fire Mordus Angels
5
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Posted - 2014.05.20 14:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Halving the loot tables is going to have a huge effect. T2 rig prices will go back to being unaffordable for regular uses. And I'm sure you guys would love to see the prices rise on datacores, encryptors, etc.
Most explorers have become very proficient at doing these sites. With prescanning each can, I usually only lose a couple mill from each site. BPCs aren't even an issue because I can always get those 100% of the time if I want them. This could very well be a 45% nerf to player income. For the people that got used to loot spew, it really wasn't that bad...I'd rather have to deal with the spew than have the tables nerfed further. |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1568
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Posted - 2014.05.20 14:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
After talking with CCP Bayesian, we think you have all made some good points and we agree with you, the 'halving' of the loot tables may be a bit harsh. We will take a look at it again and boost them a bit and get back to you with specifics :) CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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Orla- King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
54
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:After talking with CCP Bayesian, we think you have all made some good points and we agree with you, the 'halving' of the loot tables may be a bit harsh. We will take a look at it again and boost them a bit and get back to you with specifics :) Great to hear, thanks for the prompt response |
probag Bear
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
I remember there being a promise that you'd replace the EY-1005 loot spew bonus once loot spew was removed? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
815
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
maybe you should add in some unique items that you can sell too certain NPC corps... you could even make exploration missions with agents and certain NPC corps who ask for certain items to complete the mission .. you could get LP and isk reward and standings with that NPC corp... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
97
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:...I went and pulled the trigger to remove the loot scattering mechanic from the Exploration Sites.
You did the right thing. Nothing of value was lost. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven. |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
418
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
probag Bear wrote:I remember there being a promise that you'd replace the EY-1005 loot spew bonus once loot spew was removed?
We have removed the "5 second increase to decay time of all scattered containers." from this implant and are in the process of replacing this now with something else. Team Space Glitter |
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probag Bear
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:I've also reverted most of the doubled rewards.
Actually, this is the much bigger issue. When loot spew removal was first brought up, there was a large debate over the drops and their impact on the market, that ended in this post, stating that rewards would be increased, if anything. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2762
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm not sure cutting the loot in half will go far enough. Prices have crashed so far that many explorers have moved on. When they start coming back, even at half loot, we may still have an oversupply. I remember seeing CCP say they wanted exploration to be one of the highest paying careers in Eve. That means in high sec, it should pay better than L4 missions. We need prices to rise tremendously for that to happen.
Another option, increase the breadth of the loot tables. For example, every now and then a skill book shows up. But only a few of them show up. How about including ALL the skill books? That would allow more of them total to be in the loot without tanking the market for any given book. Just make sure the spawn rate is less than the total NPC sales for that book.
The same could be done for BPOs for T1 modules and ships. Include them all, make sure the spawn rate is less than the NPC sales rate (even if the popularity of exploration explodes). http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Bagehi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
270
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Good change. Good luck on balancing it so that it is a valuable profession though. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1417
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Faction ship multi run bpcs please :D GRRR Goons |
Matias Otero
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
114
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
I actually appreciated the original intent of the loot spew, what with adding an element of time-sensitive interaction and encouraging group play, but I can't say I will miss them. It was a good idea on paper. In reality I want to hack the damn thing, get what's inside and gtfo before those probes lock in on me. |
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