Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Mercer Nen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:25:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:The problem with that idea is that it means there is an incentive for people who aren't interested in hacking or exploration as such to come in and fail in order to get the loot out. It's mitigatable but ultimately we'd be leaving a mechanic in that doesn't quite fit into EVE's interaction scheme.
I'm personally much more of a fan of making the reward you get out proportional to how well you complete the hack. The idea floated by someone earlier of having to find 'loot nodes' is along the same lines of future ideas for hacking (here and elsewhere) I have.
It's an interesting point about the interaction scheme. I've always felt that a missing element of EVE was interactions with the environment (with consequence). This is especially missing in PVE.
Although I found the loot spew to be frustrating, it was more to do with being forced to do a lot of double clicking as a reward for a successful hack. While I don't think the way it was implemented worked, it did seem like a further iteration of it could be quite interesting. Particularly if it placed more of an emphasis on skilfully manually piloting your ship. I had originally (and optimistically) assumed that the idea of using your ship to directly interact with the environment was part of the concept behind the loot spew.
The idea of there being multiple elements and interactions within exploration sites makes them immediately more interesting than the bulk of PVE currently available in EVE. Reducing the hacking sites to: hack -> reward, is in some ways an improvement, but also still seems a bit too simple. All that aside, I still look forward to seeing the hacking mini-game further iterated on.
[apologies if this is off topic] |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1172
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 15:51:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Could we move discussion of improvements to the Hacking mechanics elsewhere. This thread needs to stay on topic so we can collect feedback about the changes we're making right now.
Sorry, my bad :D Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. Beware the french guy!
|
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1540
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 16:27:00 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Sisi should be updated today and I went and pulled the trigger to remove the loot scattering mechanic from the Exploration Sites. I've also reverted most of the doubled rewards. Some need to be done manually by our designers so consider what you're getting out of the sites as WIP. It works pretty much as before but with the Hacking mechanic remaining. Simply hack the site to gain access to the cargo hold of your target.
We've tested quite a lot internally but there are likely to be some rough edges somewhere. Any feedback you guys can give me is greatly appreciated.
Are there any plans to redesign how the hacking mini game works?
Currently it is just a click fest with no real skill or thought required. I can think of one simple change that would make it more engaging...
CCP Bayesian wrote:Could we move discussion of improvements to the Hacking mechanics elsewhere. This thread needs to stay on topic so we can collect feedback about the changes we're making right now.
Sorry didn't see this...
Could you be so kind as to create a feedback thread for us to move the discussion to? After all, no one wants to give feedback if it's just going to be ignored. +1 |
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 19:03:00 -
[94] - Quote
Thank you sweet Jesus |
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 23:10:00 -
[95] - Quote
Now that loot spew has been removed it's far to easy to drop the valuable from the container ,people will just loot the expensives and let the crap behind them . "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get" seems a good philosophy for this activity .Please make Relic and Data container immune to cargo scan . It'll encourage explorer to clean the whole things before getting to next one . |
|
CCP Bayesian
1096
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 09:28:00 -
[96] - Quote
I've done some tidying up of the site completion mechanics that mean the exploration site gets pulled down and recreated elsewhere which should hopefully help with that problem. It should be live on Sisi after the next update.
We added some junk loot in as well, partly because it was in the scattered containers and partly because there are otherwise occasionally empty containers. We're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi? EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter |
|
Jarnis McPieksu
499
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 09:40:00 -
[97] - Quote
How does this work? Site stays up only X time after one of the cans has been touched, so it will respawn even if someone just cherry-picked the good stuff?
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2359
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 09:53:00 -
[98] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote: We added some junk loot in as well, partly because it was in the scattered containers and partly because there are otherwise occasionally empty containers. We're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi?
I'm going to break the rules as I am still at work. In regards to junk loot and cherry picking; there will always be those who cherry pick the cans and regard anything but the best (overall or on a can by can basis) to be junk. Adding in junk will not affect these players. The loot all crowd will usually end up jetting every now and then when getting non-desirable loot (pirate materials comes to mind here) adding junk loot will just be another thing to jettison. -á --á |
|
CCP Bayesian
1096
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 10:11:00 -
[99] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:How does this work? Site stays up only X time after one of the cans has been touched, so it will respawn even if someone just cherry-picked the good stuff?
Basically yes but with a few caveats to deal with edge cases (e.g. someone is still in the site). Things were already working this way previously but when I went through the code there were some cases that hadn't been covered so now it should be a bit more efficient. The knock on effect is that there will be more fresh sites to be found now (and thus more loot) without making it harder to catch and kill Explorers. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter |
|
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2946
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 11:08:00 -
[100] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:I've done some tidying up of the site completion mechanics that mean the exploration site gets pulled down and recreated elsewhere which should hopefully help with that problem. It should be live on Sisi after the next update.
We added some junk loot in as well, partly because it was in the scattered containers and partly because there are otherwise occasionally empty containers. We're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi?
Not tested it, but I always use a filter (value >100k) before hitting loot all. Then I check again for anything the client doesn't understand the value of.
So the junk loot would be totally ignored by me. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
|
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
366
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 18:17:00 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:We're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi? How about make the "junk loot" NOT junk. No, I don't mean by making it "aw3sum f4ct10N lewt". I mean by using that "junk" to manufacture things for Explorers. Such as the Data Sheets / Hydrogen Batteries / etc being used to manufacture Utilities. Which could then be slotted BEFORE Hacking etc etc. You know, all the stuff you were talking about last year. That way, the junk isn't really "junk".
CCP Bayesian wrote:...without making it harder to catch and kill Explorers. Because that was hard to begin with? You bookmark the site and/or leave your Bomber alt cloaked there. Go do what you normally do in system. If somebody is stupid enough to run sites with others in local, then Profit. If anything, killing Explorers should be made more difficult. But I gather that runs somewhat counter to the current philosophy of placating the "moar easy killz plox! i r aw3sum! hnuuurrrr!" crowd.
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2360
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 18:44:00 -
[102] - Quote
Some feedback after getting on Sisi and testing. Got an average site in low sec, all 5 cans contained loot. It was so nice to not have the loot spew to deal with but with that being said I have a couple concerns. First, with the removal of loot spew there will be more hackers going out again which will further drive the value of sites down it might be wise to consider nerfing the loot tables just a little bit. Second is the Pirate Materials, is there any reason they are 1m3 each? That's huge when you consider they usually come is stacks of 35~150 one site can fill up your cargo hold, if your aren't lucky. On a related note those parts are still mostly worthless as they come in large stacks and once the BPC is manufactured the item is permanent it would be nice the see the stack quanity lowered and the volume decreased on each item. Something that I will bring up in a invention thread is the idea of the Interfaces to be consumable rather than permanent. -á --á |
Arla Sarain
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 15:36:00 -
[103] - Quote
Don't forget that there is an implant that increases loot spew duration by 5s
|
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
237
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 15:42:00 -
[104] - Quote
The market for WH data/relic loot has plummeted to the point where very few people in my corp even run them. Removing the loot spew is great, but I would like to argue that if you doubled the amount of loot in odyssey you really need to halve it again to where it was before, anything less and the sites are still worthless.
Also, could you think about making WH cans explode after failed hacks like everything else does? The ease of access to WH exploration sites has led to them being almost worthless. Difficult minigame be damned every idiot that can spam click just keeps trying again and again until they get the node, this makes deprives competent explorers of any advantage. The Wormhole Kid |
probag Bear
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 17:15:00 -
[105] - Quote
ExookiZ wrote:The market for WH data/relic loot has plummeted to the point where very few people in my corp even run them. Removing the loot spew is great, but I would like to argue that if you doubled the amount of loot in odyssey you really need to halve it again to where it was before, anything less and the sites are still worthless.
I've dried up Jita's entire supply of WH relic loot too many times to count over the last month. Please go back to running them. |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
148
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 17:19:00 -
[106] - Quote
probag Bear wrote: I've dried up Jita's entire supply of WH relic loot too many times to count over the last month. Please go back to running them.
So what you're saying is the WH guys are undercutting themselves out of a market that they have complete control over...
Genius.... |
Vhelnik Cojoin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 17:29:00 -
[107] - Quote
Message in OP makes me happy. May actually go back and try exploration again, once this hits TQ. Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EVE-oconomy and o-kay for you. |
Vishtar
Infinite Holdings Ltd
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 19:34:00 -
[108] - Quote
Is this changing in wormhole sites as well as normal space exploration sites? |
Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
158
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 09:22:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:I've done some tidying up of the site completion mechanics that mean the exploration site gets pulled down and recreated elsewhere which should hopefully help with that problem. It should be live on Sisi after the next update.
We added some junk loot in as well, partly because it was in the scattered containers and partly because there are otherwise occasionally empty containers. We're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi?
How about adding some lore related loot instead of junk? I feel kind of silly using my space archaeology skill to essentially sift through space trash. Followed by selling what I stole. Make some lore-relevanted items I can store in my museum. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2407
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 09:57:00 -
[110] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:I've done some tidying up of the site completion mechanics that mean the exploration site gets pulled down and recreated elsewhere which should hopefully help with that problem. It should be live on Sisi after the next update.
We added some junk loot in as well, partly because it was in the scattered containers and partly because there are otherwise occasionally empty containers. We're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi? How about adding some lore related loot instead of junk? I feel kind of silly using my space archaeology skill to essentially sift through space trash. Followed by selling what I stole. Make some lore-relevanted items I can store in my museum.
Eve has lore, who cares?
Sorry, but your idea is hopeless. This is not a signature. |
|
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
127
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 16:51:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:IWe're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi?
I'd rather cherry pick since it allows me to control precious cargo space more easily. A couple of problems with jettison: there is a timer before jettisoning again, & the jettison can leaves an identifying footprint for hunters.
|
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
22
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 19:42:00 -
[112] - Quote
By all means necessary , i think CCP should avoid cherry picking ( making explo container scan immune is the simplest and best method). For me there is 3 major concerns actually. -Balance drop table to maintain market value . -Make the hacking game more challenging and enjoyable aka multicores + timer . -Avoid cherry picking . |
|
CCP Bayesian
1104
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 09:07:00 -
[113] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Don't forget that there is an implant that increases loot spew duration by 5s
We haven't and its getting changed. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter |
|
Onslaughtor
Occult National Security Affirmative.
90
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 09:26:00 -
[114] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:I've done some tidying up of the site completion mechanics that mean the exploration site gets pulled down and recreated elsewhere which should hopefully help with that problem. It should be live on Sisi after the next update.
We added some junk loot in as well, partly because it was in the scattered containers and partly because there are otherwise occasionally empty containers. We're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi? How about adding some lore related loot instead of junk? I feel kind of silly using my space archaeology skill to essentially sift through space trash. Followed by selling what I stole. Make some lore-relevanted items I can store in my museum.
Kinda like the pirate gas sites. There is a lot of loot in there that gives flavor to the game world. We really need more of it. |
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
116
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 09:53:00 -
[115] - Quote
I just tested a Relic site in a 0.0 system (K-QWHE). Some feedback:
- It isn't possible to save a bookmark on a specific can. I was pretty sure you could do this previously, but you can't anymore. I think I remember doing this to share a corp bookmark as a warp in for attacking. If you get +150km away from the cans, they are still able to be warped to.
- The cans once hacked have the "Set Name" option if you right click on them. If you try to set a name, it says "You can't rename this type of object". This option should probably be removed.
- No tooltips on the hacking containers themselves. This could probably be re-added.
- Cargo scanning still works on the containers. I'm OK with that. I cargo scanned ALL of the containers before I started hacking, and I didn't see any T2 loot. When I got to the last can, I scanned again, and I believe the contents had changed, as there was some T2 loot. This seems very odd.
- From this site in a 0.0 sec system, this is the total contents emptied after successfully hacking all containers. I'm used to getting 35-50M in loot, plus blueprints and the rare T2/Faction item. This amount seems rather low, but it could be due to the truesec rating of the system. I'll test again in a better truesec system.
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008" |
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
116
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 10:15:00 -
[116] - Quote
Additional feedback from running an "Angel Sparking Transmitter" Data site in a -0.5 system:
- The Micro Jump Drive Blueprint icon looks like a BPO not a BPC, and has an error in the description: [no messageID: 295554] (copy). Screenshot.
- If you finish a can, but don't take all the loot, the icon for the can doesn't indicate that it still contains something. Shouldn't this be similar to how wrecks are? For example: White (solid) for contains loot but hasn't been accessed. Grey (solid) for contains loot but has been accessed. Grey (hollow) for does not contain loot.
- The items from a Data site are still extremely bulky. The Electrical Conduit parts take up almost my entire cargo bay, so I end up having to jetcan it. Datacores/Decryptors are also much more bulky than the loot from Relic sites, so I end up only keeping the choice ones.
- Noob question about the "junk loot" - Electronic Parts, Hydrogen Batteries, Carbon, etc. Is it still used in Outpost Construction? If it's removed, where will this stuff come from? When we were doing the lootspew, you'd have to watch your cargo space carefully or you might fill up and be full and not be able to grab good loot, but that isn't a problem anymore. Personally I'd like to see more lore related loot to replace this stuff if it's not actually necessary for building anything.
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008" |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
139
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 10:19:00 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:As I said above the loot balancing is a WIP but I'll make sure your feedback reaches the right ears. I'm pretty sure we don't want to ruin any serendipitous benefits of the changes we made.
I definitely hope it is a work in process. Did not have much time to play with it so far, but I can already tell the value of items from the site is less than half. Your code should at least make sure there is at least one item of value - carbon and other PI materials do not count as items of value, nor those skill books.
Otherwise, nice to see the loot spew go. Never made much sense that pilots on salvage expeditions would not have the sense to bring a really big net to cover the doors.
|
|
CCP Bayesian
1104
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 10:37:00 -
[118] - Quote
The loot in the cans is currently setup to be 70% of the value it was after Odyssey when we doubled the loot to account for the Scattering. We'll be watching to see what happens but think this should be a good spot to start from. You probably can't see that from running one or two sites though as it will average out between cans that have lots of awesome stuff in and cans that don't.
Ransu Asanari, the HUD icon tells you whether the can has been hacked or not. It reflects the 'security status' of the can.
We think there is enough wrong with the balance of the loot in the Exploration Sites that a much larger pass needs to be made over it. For example Relic sites are typically worth much more than Data sites and there are some big jumps in the value of sites as you move through the progression in difficulty. It's something on Space Glitters backlog to look at. EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter |
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2360
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 10:39:00 -
[119] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:Don't forget that there is an implant that increases loot spew duration by 5s
We haven't and its getting changed. Any kind of teaser as to what it will become? -á --á |
|
CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
423
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 10:46:00 -
[120] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:Don't forget that there is an implant that increases loot spew duration by 5s
We haven't and its getting changed. Any kind of teaser as to what it will become?
The loot scattering decay bonus from the Poteque 'Prospector' Environmental Analysis EY-1005 implant was replaced with a +5 Virus Coherence bonus for both data and relic analyzers.
This is on Singularity now.
Team Space Glitter |
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |