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Archo X
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Posted - 2006.06.01 20:39:00 -
[1]
I do not pilot a HAC, infact the only T2 ship I can fly are transport ships, also I am not a T2 builder so I am not on either side trying to win this debate.
I am just tired of all the whines about T2 prices. So here is my solution to this mess: If you want a HAC pay 250m for it. If you don't want to pay 250m for a HAC then buy a BS and some nice mods.
Adding more BPOs are changing how fast they die or drop BPCs or whatever will destroy the T2 production market. By that I mean that people buy these BPOs for about 1 years worth of profit on that BPO. If the profit gets cut 50% then the BPO buyer just wasted 50% of that isk to make you happy.
I really don't want to pay 850m for a Gist X-type XL shield booster, I am not whining about thier price I just fit a T2 XL booster and deal with it.
Now the easiest way to get cheap T2 gear is as follows: Grind for isk and buy your own BPO -or- Get R&D agents and hope for the best.
/me turns off rant
Now to make this into a constructive post... What makes a HAC better than a BS? What modules can be used on a BS to ofset these "weaknesses"? Is a Cerberus better than a Raven (presuming equally skilled pilots and comparable fittings)? There must be some reason people are willing to pay what they do for HACs... what is it?
If a BS is better than a HAC then why use a HAC? If fewer people use HACs the price will go down.
Since the economics here are simple, but the pros and cons of each ship are not so simple I have this post in the Ships section, not the market section. **********Eve Isk Pyramid********** When you read this sig send me 10,000 isk then add it to your sig. *********************************** |
Weirda
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Posted - 2006.06.01 20:55:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Weirda on 01/06/2006 20:54:59 what - by starting it?
currently the dev don't like the way it work and they will change it (ie make it more fair/real) to improve market 'realizm' (term use very loose).
as for whining, yes - it bother Weirda too... but you know, you don't have to care/pay attention to people who are upset about being in the same boat as everyone else...
it like when Weirda used to tour, drummer was always (ALWAYS) *****ing about how boring the drive was... and how much it sucked to be stuck in bus all day/night/etc... he was *****ing to 3 other people who were in the same boat as him... and honestly probably the only thing that could have made it worse was listening to him *****ing about it.
ironic huh? __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More! |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.06.01 21:03:00 -
[3]
well my beef is that hac used to be 60-90mil.. which was reasonable and profit wise pretty good for the manufacturer (they cost about 17mil to make)..
now hac, cerbs in particular, cost 240million isk, and all i can ask is.. why?
it kind of takes the fun out of the game for me in some ways because its a ship i enjoy flying but everytime i lose one its a huge chunk of isk.. yes yes its t2 yes yes its supposed to be expensive and no i dont NEED to use a HAC ect but still, i dont think CCP intended them to cost that much and not too long ago they didnt cost that much so hopefully in the near future ccp will figure out a way to make these ships a bit more reasonable. ------
FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
madaluap
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Posted - 2006.06.01 21:05:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Archo X I do not pilot a HAC, infact the only T2 ship I can fly are transport ships, also I am not a T2 builder so I am not on either side trying to win this debate.
I am just tired of all the whines about T2 prices. So here is my solution to this mess: If you want a HAC pay 250m for it. If you don't want to pay 250m for a HAC then buy a BS and some nice mods.
Adding more BPOs are changing how fast they die or drop BPCs or whatever will destroy the T2 production market. By that I mean that people buy these BPOs for about 1 years worth of profit on that BPO. If the profit gets cut 50% then the BPO buyer just wasted 50% of that isk to make you happy.
I really don't want to pay 850m for a Gist X-type XL shield booster, I am not whining about thier price I just fit a T2 XL booster and deal with it.
Now the easiest way to get cheap T2 gear is as follows: Grind for isk and buy your own BPO -or- Get R&D agents and hope for the best.
/me turns off rant
Now to make this into a constructive post... What makes a HAC better than a BS? What modules can be used on a BS to ofset these "weaknesses"? Is a Cerberus better than a Raven (presuming equally skilled pilots and comparable fittings)? There must be some reason people are willing to pay what they do for HACs... what is it?
If a BS is better than a HAC then why use a HAC? If fewer people use HACs the price will go down.
Since the economics here are simple, but the pros and cons of each ship are not so simple I have this post in the Ships section, not the market section.
Nope we can't stop the whine, why? Because most ships will just be used by npc *****s...
Personnaly i stopped flying hacs, but it would be fun to fly one again. Btw your argument works the other way around asswell, T2 producers bought there BPO for a production average of about 100 mil each, now they are getting 180 mil each...
Only problem i really have with them being expensive is the fact that demand can increase but supply is fixed. T2 isnt a real market, people keep forgetting that. T2 shouldnt be like tech 1, but more playercontrolled supply would be cool.
This doesnt have to be anything extreme, just so you get a hacoffer every 100 k LP or something... _________________________________________________
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Krogort
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Posted - 2006.06.01 21:10:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Krogort on 01/06/2006 21:11:46 Most T2 ships and some equipment are too expensive (for PVP purpose of course), it's a fact. For most player, gathering the required money to buy and equip a T2 ship, lets say an HAS take several days of farming, for others it take half a day (who said hulk blueprint? ). This isn't fair and the only one that agree with that must be the bpo owners... So no reason to stop the whines...
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Archo X
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Posted - 2006.06.01 21:18:00 -
[6]
OK, my first post was a little bit of a whine in and of it self. I am just sick of the constant whines about T2 prices.
The best argument about T2 prices is that the market is fairly fixed. If supply is at a constant then demand is the only thing that will cause price changes. I do not think that "increase BPO seeding 10 fold" is a viable answer because it will ruin prices.
Instead perhaps one of each BPO gets seeded every 6 months. Another idea I like is that CCP sell (at an insane price) one of each T2 BPO every 6 months. However this undermines the purpose of research and more than likely someone that owns multiple T2 BPOs will buy it and not produce it.
The thing to keep in mind when talking about T@ is that it is a multi-billion ( and probably into the trillion) isk industry. Even slight changes can and will have a huge impact on the economy. **********Eve Isk Pyramid********** When you read this sig send me 10,000 isk then add it to your sig. *********************************** |
Lord Violent
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Posted - 2006.06.01 21:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Archo X I do not pilot a HAC, infact the only T2 ship I can fly are transport ships
When you do come back and make an informed statement. :p
I dont whine, I just buy. I can afford HAC's at whatever price you wanna charge me and would still fly them if they cost as much as dreads, because its fun and strangely thats what I play the game for.
Dosent mean that this is not a valid balancing issue, yes T2 BPO owners should make lots of isk, no this should not be at the detriment of the fun of pvpers (which T2 ships kinda make a big part of) CCP are dealing with it and recognise it is a problem, nough said.
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Archo X
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Posted - 2006.06.01 21:26:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Krogort Edited by: Krogort on 01/06/2006 21:11:46 Most T2 ships and some equipment are too expensive (for PVP purpose of course), it's a fact. For most player, gathering the required money to buy and equip a T2 ship, lets say an HAS take several days of farming, for others it take half a day (who said hulk blueprint? ). This isn't fair and the only one that agree with that must be the bpo owners... So no reason to stop the whines...
Hmm... you are in BoB right... let's try this whine "BoB can build a titan and I can't. (me being a 4 day old char mining Veld in a 1.0 system) That's not fair!!! NERF BOB!!!!11!!!"
Now I'm not trying to say anything one way or the other about BoB specifically, I am trying to make the point that just because somebody can do something does not mean you sould be able to also.
The same could be said for people that do not have a full time job, school, family, or any other time consuming thing. They can play Eve for 18 hours a day and make in a day what would take me a week to do. **********Eve Isk Pyramid********** When you read this sig send me 10,000 isk then add it to your sig. *********************************** |
Cpt Placeholder
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Posted - 2006.06.01 21:32:00 -
[9]
that question is either rhetoric or stupid
heres my solution if youre tired of reading hac whines: dont read them
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tenp1
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Posted - 2006.06.01 22:05:00 -
[10]
I tend to agree with the whines about OTT t2 prices, and I say this as a rather popular T2 ship bpo owner. I have long since thought that as eve is for a large part a trade game, then some realistic market rules should be used. The pricing of alot of t2 ships and certian mod's (I guess everyone knows which one I mean) would never be allowed in RL (yeah I hate comparing anything in eve to RL, but in this case it does apply). Companies in the real world are punished for overcharging or falsly hiking up prices, and as for monopolies that is definelty frowned upon (look at all the trouble MS got in to). It would not hurt ccp to price cap all produceable items. If it was done at a reasonable level e.g. 100-150mill for a HAC (I don't own a HAC BPO by the way ) it would allow for huge profits to be made, but it would keep prices from getting OTT. No doubt initially all the ships/nods would be sold for cap price, but that in it's self may force prices down further over time. Not only that,alot of the profiteers who buy up cheap ships/mods then resell at a much higher will be neutered for the most part.
I personally sell the ship I make for 3 times production cost, this on average nets me 10mill per ship, which I see as a decent profit and plenty of incentive to keep production running. I undercut most other producers by about 5 mill, which means I get a very quick turn over, often in the space of minutes. Yeah I know they are probably being bought up them put back on the market at marked up prices, but I like to think at least I am making an effort to keep the prices down.
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St Dragon
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Posted - 2006.06.01 22:12:00 -
[11]
You do realise that by posting this type of topic it can be looked on as being as bad as complaining about Tech 2.
And just say that ccp agree and are apparently working something out [ tho im told the lottery doesant change as such]. -----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
Amerame
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Posted - 2006.06.01 22:15:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Amerame on 01/06/2006 22:16:01 I could understand if the price was high because some ressources were rare, and fought for in 0.0 or something in those lines, but the fact that the value of a BPO increase over time, simply because the offer is fixed while the demand increase is not really realistic, as time go by, the value of a discovery should decrease, not increase. Why are there still just as many cap rech t2 now that there are 125k account as when there used to be 30k or so accounts ? It would be more realistic if you could increase the production of a BPO by increasing the cost of making an item for example.
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Daos Leghki
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Posted - 2006.06.01 22:52:00 -
[13]
Where are you guys finding these whine threads? The only one I've seen lately was this one and the "The T2 market needs fixing" thread in the Marked Discussions forum. Tell me, I need to go tro....err, peruse those threads
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.02 03:50:00 -
[14]
the only problem I have with T2 is the harder to make items like HACs and other shps, are still in a supply that is far too small for the playerbase, which caused their current prices. If hacs drop back to 60-90mil, they'd end up being used for more than mission whoring or pvp by people with tons of ISK.
TBH i'd love to see the BPOs for alot of t2 items double-triple.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.02 04:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lord Violent yes T2 BPO owners should make lots of isk
Says who?
I doubt that having some R&D alts hardly 'earns' you a few billion isk, or if you're one of the lucky ones, tens of billions. If you're working and you buy the BPO, that's one thing, but to say people with some R&D alts have 'earned' anything is absurd.
Make R&D missions active like the other mission types and maybe people who 'win' t2 bpos will have some right to say they 'earned' them.
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.06.02 05:23:00 -
[16]
I really have no problem with t2 prices. 6-20 mill for an AF, 40-100 mill for a hac...
Ok so some people are over-exagerating on market, make contacts and find other ways of obtaining what you want. ----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
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Pwyle Kenobi
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Posted - 2006.06.02 06:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Foulis I really have no problem with t2 prices. 6-20 mill for an AF, 40-100 mill for a hac...
Ok so some people are over-exagerating on market, make contacts and find other ways of obtaining what you want.
A Cerberus being in the range of 225 mil to 250 mil is not exaggerated. The absolute cheapest I've seen in weeks is 200 mil. At least the Cerberus price makes all other T2 ships look like great value!
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Darpz
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Posted - 2006.06.02 06:07:00 -
[18]
people who fly Hacs are muppets. the ships are actaully not all that great.
BC>Hac
only Hacs my brutix has an issue with is ishtars and Cerbs but those are easily dispatched by any of the other 3 BCs
and once tier 2 BC come out then there will be little point to hacs.
The only good fix is a DEAD fix |
Leon 026
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Posted - 2006.06.02 06:14:00 -
[19]
Can we stop whining about whining? -------------------------------
[20:05:51] Cyshade > Leon 026, making Crow BPO owners trillionaires since 29.08.2005
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Ishmael Hansen
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Posted - 2006.06.02 08:22:00 -
[20]
If you think that paying 255m for a item that costs 17m to make is fair. Specially if the guy who owns the bpo didn't earned it, just got lucky in a borked lottery.
At least for the guy selling the Gist X-type XL shield booster there was some risk involved.
And please tell me how you grind 35bill of isk without having a tech 2 bpo already. that's alot of missions/ratting
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Jon Xylur
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Posted - 2006.06.02 10:09:00 -
[21]
HACs are overpriced shiath. I never use em. But from since they were introduced, the number of players have doubled but the number of BPOs has kept the same. This cause a much bigger demand thna there is supply and that causes high prices. They really should introduce more HAC BPOs through the lottery again. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes |
Avowech
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:50:00 -
[22]
As a relative newcomer to the game I find the inability to buy advanced ships/equipment to be a big turn off. Rifter 250,000ISK WOLF 25,000,000ISK , 100 times the cost. Spending 50-90% of my ingame time going round and round ratting hardly seems to be an enthralling time spent in game.
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