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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
414
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Posted - 2014.05.21 20:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Long story short, Google docs is slowly getting more and more upgrades, and recent upgrade that for now is optional and not forced on old spreadsheets/forms/etc... no longer works in IGB
As CCP is probably aware many players use many google docs spreadsheets in game via IGB. with links based on data linking to pages running IGB javascript functions. My corporation is using this extensivly. We have IGB Jscript app based on Google spreadsheets to do a lot of stuff.
Sooner or later Google and other web developers will keep making stuff that no longer will work with IGB.
Now I know that IGB is not priority, but pls consider in some future upgrading the underlying engine to more recent chromium version. Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3242
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Posted - 2014.05.21 21:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
To be frank, there are no plans to look at upgrading the IGB. It's not even on any backlog or anything. Our strategy is more to try and get things into CREST and get the same kind of features you expect from the IGB into CREST.
We are aware that the IGB still sees a lot of usage, and we are clearly nowhere near doing anything, but thats the general line of thinking these days. CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
97
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Posted - 2014.05.22 00:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Just a thought FoxFour:
I know that this really isn't CCP's thing, but have you considered making a community project out of the IGB? Essentially making it a "module" that fits into EVE Online. For example, there are set calls/methods/functions for headers, JavaScript popups, and the like that the code can reference. This would keep us players from knowing the interworkings of your code. Thehe players, under the supervision of a developer or two who could simply review and OK the code, craft the "new" IGB. If there's really that many people using the IGB (as I would expect), there's bound to be players who are interested in joining in on such a project. I would be one of them.
Granted, I will make a relatively safe assumption that even if this project was put into the community's hands, it would take significant work to get the IGB into a module status that can simply be "loaded in" whenever EVE is compiled or updated so players have the most up-to-date stable version. However, I believe it would be cool to allow players to be notified for IGB updates as well which could be downloaded separately for beta or nightly builds to help with community testing. CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty...
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Circumstantial Evidence
119
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Posted - 2014.05.22 01:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:To be frank, there are no plans to look at upgrading the IGB. Sadness.
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Ice Brodie
Tactical Logistics and Cargo
0
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Posted - 2014.05.22 03:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hearing this is perhaps the most detrimental news as far as my major project. I had intended to provide data into Eve, not just out of it, and relying on CREST alone limits my options for tools I have planned to create.
Additionally the IGB isn't just a data source, it's a tool, it's a resource, because tabbing between Eve and a normal browser is suicide in lowsec and nullsec. Depreciation of it would be a crippling blow, seeing as there is no other way to provide a 'plugin' to add features. I mean, heck, when I'm in Eve, I use it to order food.
The Google Drive/Docs concern is one I also echo, as the GDocs have been a vital tool for me to track corp resources in the past, they provide a tool without the spyware potential of other apps (this is EVE after all) they provide a way for people with limited or no programming experience to create management tools for their corps. Or people like me, Google Docs lets me prototype formula logic without having to toggle between Eve and a browser, which tends to result in my poor old computer crashing out of EVE.
Personally I think there's not so much a demand for adding features to the CCPEVE Javascript object, or the IGB trusted site headers (though the wishlist on the wiki would be nice to source ideas for additions from), just keeping the codebase for the IGB current with it's parent projects, Chromium and Awesomium would be beneficial from a usability, security and safety standpoint.
The ability to use plugins for certain sites like Youtube or maybe add a trusted site plugin option would also be VERY useful to deal with the hours of time wasted by sitting in belts while shooting asteroids. (which was the first goal we reached on the 11th anniversary challenge)
Personally I would love to be able to watch youtube videos while hauling cargo around, it'd also give the pirates who target me a better chance of ganking me, so they'd like it too. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
173
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Posted - 2014.05.22 05:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:To be frank, there are no plans to look at upgrading the IGB. It's not even on any backlog or anything. Our strategy is more to try and get things into CREST and get the same kind of features you expect from the IGB into CREST.
We are aware that the IGB still sees a lot of usage, and we are clearly nowhere near doing anything, but thats the general line of thinking these days.
Wasn't the whole point behind using awesomium that you could update it with minimal effort? That was what was promised when it was introduced, that you'd update it to keep up with the evolving web standards. |
Peter Drakon
Independent Traders and Builders Chained Reactions
10
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Posted - 2014.05.22 06:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:To be frank, there are no plans to look at upgrading the IGB.
While EVE is a space ship game, and an internet browser tool is certainly a different thing, and not in the game's scope, EVE is very different from most games in play style.
We have an in game a tool we use as a regular browser for intel, sharing intel, assets management, market stuff, passing time and ten thousand other things.
Just count all the web sites that are made for EVE! How many has functions that rely on simple copy-paste since IGB doesnGÇÖt have that feature! How many can use IGBGÇÖs functionality as a trusted source to create an integrated feeling with the game while offering a gazillion other functions! How many sites are there, that share stuff as a simple internet source, like wikis and many-many market sites!
We donGÇÖt have addons.
We have an IGB.
Your players rely on it now. |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
415
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Posted - 2014.05.22 13:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Exactly, we dont 'need' igb http headers if we can get the same data trough CREST with the same short intervals (every few seconds) some time in the future, but we indeed "need" to be able to display the result of our manipulation on this data inside client. And then based on that we need to perform actions inside clients (igb js functiojs like show info, add contact, show market details, set destination, show fitting, etc...)
For many of those things gdocs is used. People develop new webpages using modern technology. Proper html5, extensive jquery and rely on web page manipulation heavly instead of just using plain static pages that needs to reload to perforn any next step.
For example. In wormholes we rely very heavily on things like siggy, excam, eveeye, static mapper, etc... imagine if at some time in the future developimg such apps would require using ancient development technics and no longer supportet libaries and languages because world moved forward with web tech.
Like someone said - you are using chromium/awesomium and it should be relatively easy to change the underlying engine version. After all the most igb adds to this is custom headers and additional js libary.
Now there are security concerns, but mechanically disabling any plugins should be trivial.
All i'm asking is for ccp to look at how much work it would take.
Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3244
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hey guys,
We are aware of all those concerns. However the engine we are using, Awesomium I believe, was heavily modified to work with EVE. The end result is that it's not nearly as simple as upgrading to the newest version. Especially after all these years. It's an unfortunate situation but it is what it is.
We are not in a position to dedicate resource to the IGB right now. While we do of course hope we can get CREST out to you and that we can get it to a state that it covers most of your needs there are obviously clear benefits to having the IGB. These are things we are aware of and thinking about what we can do.
For now though, it's not even being looked at.
Don't stop poking us about it though, but don't go expecting anything either. CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
97
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Posted - 2014.05.22 17:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys,
We are aware of all those concerns. However the engine we are using, Awesomium I believe, was heavily modified to work with EVE. The end result is that it's not nearly as simple as upgrading to the newest version. Especially after all these years. It's an unfortunate situation but it is what it is.
We are not in a position to dedicate resource to the IGB right now. While we do of course hope we can get CREST out to you and that we can get it to a state that it covers most of your needs there are obviously clear benefits to having the IGB. These are things we are aware of and thinking about what we can do.
For now though, it's not even being looked at.
Don't stop poking us about it though, but don't go expecting anything either.
Well, if and when you folks at CCP have time to dedicate some resources to the IGB, I urge you to consider making it a community project which would allow you folks at CCP to dedicate minimal resources while still getting the results wanted by the players. An IGB for players, by players. CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty...
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Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
415
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Posted - 2014.05.22 18:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys,
We are aware of all those concerns. However the engine we are using, Awesomium I believe, was heavily modified to work with EVE. The end result is that it's not nearly as simple as upgrading to the newest version. Especially after all these years. It's an unfortunate situation but it is what it is.
We are not in a position to dedicate resource to the IGB right now. While we do of course hope we can get CREST out to you and that we can get it to a state that it covers most of your needs there are obviously clear benefits to having the IGB. These are things we are aware of and thinking about what we can do.
For now though, it's not even being looked at.
Don't stop poking us about it though, but don't go expecting anything either.
Thank You for the answer, so here is something that may sound like a solution, although I don't know if it covers all of the stuff we want to do:
so IGB have 3 EVE usages 1. TRUSTED/HTTP headers to get info from EVE to web server - probably can be replaced by CREST (will require high frequency of data access trough CREST measured in seconds)
2. Displaying pages that may or may not be EVE related - can be replaced (theoretically) by plain upgrade to new web engine without ANY changes - just plug in browser into eve and do nothing more like HTTP Headers, Java Script library and stuff to it. Except maybe blocking plugin usage to increase security. Pages can get data trough CREST from players that let them access it
3. Accessing certain in game functionality: currently done by EVE JavaScript library and is probably hardest to replace, but what if CREST when we finally get into the time when it can write and not only read the EVE server could run the same things as today's IGB JS library. i.e. cause in game events to occur, open certain show info page, view market details, set destination to a system.
Not sure if this actually solve anything. Maybe I don't see the extra work that is needed to simply plug a non-eve browser into the game? Maybe crest will only be able to do stuff silently (i.e. can't open show info, but maybe can set destination)
Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2656
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Posted - 2014.05.22 18:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Makari Aeron wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys,
We are aware of all those concerns. However the engine we are using, Awesomium I believe, was heavily modified to work with EVE. The end result is that it's not nearly as simple as upgrading to the newest version. Especially after all these years. It's an unfortunate situation but it is what it is.
We are not in a position to dedicate resource to the IGB right now. While we do of course hope we can get CREST out to you and that we can get it to a state that it covers most of your needs there are obviously clear benefits to having the IGB. These are things we are aware of and thinking about what we can do.
For now though, it's not even being looked at.
Don't stop poking us about it though, but don't go expecting anything either. Well, if and when you folks at CCP have time to dedicate some resources to the IGB, I urge you to consider making it a community project which would allow you folks at CCP to dedicate minimal resources while still getting the results wanted by the players. An IGB for players, by players.
^^ his idea is actually more realistic as it might seem initially. You guys work on the probe project, right? A minimal client for benchmark/regression tests/bugreport use. So open a part of it up so we can use it as testbed for a new IGB implementation. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Ice Brodie
Tactical Logistics and Cargo
1
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys,
We are aware of all those concerns. However the engine we are using, Awesomium I believe, was heavily modified to work with EVE. The end result is that it's not nearly as simple as upgrading to the newest version. Especially after all these years. It's an unfortunate situation but it is what it is.
We are not in a position to dedicate resource to the IGB right now. While we do of course hope we can get CREST out to you and that we can get it to a state that it covers most of your needs there are obviously clear benefits to having the IGB. These are things we are aware of and thinking about what we can do.
For now though, it's not even being looked at.
Don't stop poking us about it though, but don't go expecting anything either.
Chromium - Awesomium - Moondoggy - carbon subsystem of the client
Also I do plan on keeping on this FoxFour, I do thank you for being understanding and responding in more depth, I'll move my flavor of pestering back to IRC, as I'm not a forum person.
I do echo the desire for the system to be more modular, thus allowing Chromium to be upgraded as needed. |
Myopic Thyne
Shattered Paradigm Eon.Apocalypse
15
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Posted - 2014.05.23 00:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Please take care of the IGB, I know you can't just devote time to any random project as it gets brought up by players, but a lot of us rely on the IGB and it's current feature set, it's really critical to how we play the game, and how we access tools to help make the game that little bit less impenetrable or painful.
I'd go so far as to say the IGB is a solution to a lot of your problems, in that it's a way for people to uniformly be able to design extension UI elements in a controlled setting for eve, so long as the same careful eye is applied to it you can really continue to make it into something special as crest rolls out. Thousands of web developers all extending EVE's UI in a way they feel is meaningful, if that's not healthy, please, please tell me what is! |
mkint
1222
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Posted - 2014.05.23 02:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
The best thing about the IGB is that it's not the old IGB.
The second best thing about the IGB is the game related functionality.
As far as a web browser goes, I always tell rookies to not bother, to just run in fixed window and alt-tab. Sounds like some people get some use out of it, but it sure would be nice if it had the basic features to essentially be a oog browser replacement. My only use for it has been google docs, and even that's always been an ordeal with window sizing and weird scroll focus. For me, it's never been feature complete enough to even consider it a functional tool.
+1 for giving it some much needed attention. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
331
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Posted - 2014.05.26 16:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's a bit of a shame; CREST potentially enables websites to do some cool things with game data.... which you then can't use in game because the browser is too old my teapot is ready |
Alundil
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
583
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Posted - 2014.07.09 02:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Based on the newly begun discussion here,https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=357198, there are a lot of people who very much want the igb to stay in the client. Updates would be great. But removal is a non-starter for a large number of players.
CREST, in its proposed read only state (unable to push data or action back to the client) represents a huge loss in functionality for how many of us currently play your game. Additionally, there is no ETA on CREST that I'm aware of so even floating the idea of the igb removal and forced migration to CREST is a not good customer service.
Throw us a bone here. Allow us to continue making use of tools that you, CCP, won't make. That only benefit your game and your players.
Thank you.
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Aebe Amraen
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
72
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Posted - 2014.07.09 03:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Even if (when) CREST can write to the database, this does not replace the capabilities the IGB gives for pushing information directly to the client--for example, opening a specific contract which has been assigned to your hauler corp, opening the market for a specific item, showing info on a specific person, opening a fit in your client. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3340
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Posted - 2014.07.09 07:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aebe Amraen wrote:Even if (when) CREST can write to the database, this does not replace the capabilities the IGB gives for pushing information directly to the client--for example, opening a specific contract which has been assigned to your hauler corp, opening the market for a specific item, showing info on a specific person, opening a fit in your client.
Said no CCP Dev ever.
CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3340
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Posted - 2014.07.09 07:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Arg, my phone is being terrible and not letting me paste a link in this text field. Someone linked to another thread above and I responded there. Go read that. If you want to be a real hero find my post and link it here. CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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Tiberius Zol
22
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Posted - 2014.07.09 08:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
You mean this one? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4785990#post4785990 |
Derrick Miles
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2014.07.09 13:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
In that thread an in-game overlay is mentioned as an existing alternative for the IGB. I thought that sounded like a good idea until I did some research on what making one would entail and discovered that hooking into the D3D calls and injecting a custom .dll is the method that seems to be used most often. And also most often used by cheaters judging by the number of search results that led to cheating websites. Is this .dll injection practice something we can pursue as third party developers? I wouldn't mind making an alternative to the IGB, but I don't want to make something that enables cheating or something that gets everyone who uses it banned. If it's not, can we use something like Overwolf even if they use the same method? |
Osi Shannara
Saint's Industries Brothers of Tangra
1
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Posted - 2014.07.12 06:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
This is very odd. IGM (In Game (web) Browser) is not related in anyway to CREST (basically, REST web service APIs). There are a few reasons to keep IGB updated instead of abandoning it:
1. Browsing in game is MUCH safer then tabbing out to an external browser (think PVP .. ala EVE) 2. Headers are extremely useful for websites that cater to EVE players. 3. hmmm... what else ...
However, since IGB has been abandoned (as confirmed by the dev earlier). Why leave it in the game? Are there other heavily used and needed features in the game on the chopping block? This is a very, very scary precedent.
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YourSherpa
Eve Summit Kaizen Systems
0
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Posted - 2014.07.13 07:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
Osi Shannara wrote:This is very odd. IGM (In Game (web) Browser) is not related in anyway to CREST (basically, REST web service APIs).
2. Headers are extremely useful for websites that cater to EVE players. 3. hmmm... what else ...
The headers information that the IGB currently gives to trusted websites will all be available via SSO and CREST when SSO and CREST rolls out in full.
Instead of browsing to a website in game, getting asked to grant trust by that website and then reloading the page in game and giving that website static data, you will now browse to that website out of game, login in with the EVE SSO, and grant that website access to you chars public CREST information(all things found in current headers). On top of that, in the future you will also be able to grant that website to access your private CREST info for use in out of game 3rd party tools (such as eve mail reading and writing out of game). An additional benefit is not needing to have you IGB open and constantly refreshing to update your location in the headers, once you grant a website access to your information, it can say track your char location in space by itself which is extremely useful for applications for wormhole mapping. |
Derrick Miles
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2014.07.13 09:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
YourSherpa wrote:Osi Shannara wrote:This is very odd. IGM (In Game (web) Browser) is not related in anyway to CREST (basically, REST web service APIs).
2. Headers are extremely useful for websites that cater to EVE players. 3. hmmm... what else ...
The headers information that the IGB currently gives to trusted websites will all be available via SSO and CREST when SSO and CREST rolls out in full. Instead of browsing to a website in game, getting asked to grant trust by that website and then reloading the page in game and giving that website static data, you will now browse to that website out of game, login in with the EVE SSO, and grant that website access to you chars public CREST information(all things found in current headers). On top of that, in the future you will also be able to grant that website to access your private CREST info for use in out of game 3rd party tools (such as eve mail reading and writing out of game). An additional benefit is not needing to have you IGB open and constantly refreshing to update your location in the headers, once you grant a website access to your information, it can say track your char location in space by itself which is extremely useful for applications for wormhole mapping.
All of that sounds good... but you still won't be able to browse in the game window. |
Alundil
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
591
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:YourSherpa wrote:Osi Shannara wrote:This is very odd. IGM (In Game (web) Browser) is not related in anyway to CREST (basically, REST web service APIs).
2. Headers are extremely useful for websites that cater to EVE players. 3. hmmm... what else ...
The headers information that the IGB currently gives to trusted websites will all be available via SSO and CREST when SSO and CREST rolls out in full. Instead of browsing to a website in game, getting asked to grant trust by that website and then reloading the page in game and giving that website static data, you will now browse to that website out of game, login in with the EVE SSO, and grant that website access to you chars public CREST information(all things found in current headers). On top of that, in the future you will also be able to grant that website to access your private CREST info for use in out of game 3rd party tools (such as eve mail reading and writing out of game). An additional benefit is not needing to have you IGB open and constantly refreshing to update your location in the headers, once you grant a website access to your information, it can say track your char location in space by itself which is extremely useful for applications for wormhole mapping. All of that sounds good... but you still won't be able to browse in the game window. And it would also be nice to have some other estimate on how likely we are to really see CREST implementation in a way that addresses the community's concerns. Something other than "It's coming." or "Soon (tm)." CREST has been teased for a long time now at this point. It also has a lot to live up to in terms of the possibility to enable 3rd Party devs to replicate existing functionality across all of the different use cases currently satisfied by the IGB.
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Alundil
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
591
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:YourSherpa wrote:Osi Shannara wrote:This is very odd. IGM (In Game (web) Browser) is not related in anyway to CREST (basically, REST web service APIs).
2. Headers are extremely useful for websites that cater to EVE players. 3. hmmm... what else ...
The headers information that the IGB currently gives to trusted websites will all be available via SSO and CREST when SSO and CREST rolls out in full. Instead of browsing to a website in game, getting asked to grant trust by that website and then reloading the page in game and giving that website static data, you will now browse to that website out of game, login in with the EVE SSO, and grant that website access to you chars public CREST information(all things found in current headers). On top of that, in the future you will also be able to grant that website to access your private CREST info for use in out of game 3rd party tools (such as eve mail reading and writing out of game). An additional benefit is not needing to have you IGB open and constantly refreshing to update your location in the headers, once you grant a website access to your information, it can say track your char location in space by itself which is extremely useful for applications for wormhole mapping. All of that sounds good... but you still won't be able to browse in the game window. And it would also be nice to have some other estimate on how likely we are to really see CREST implementation in a way that addresses the community's concerns. Something other than "It's coming." or "Soon (tm)." CREST has been teased for a long time now at this point. It also has a lot to live up to in terms of the possibility to enable 3rd Party devs to replicate existing functionality across all of the different use cases currently satisfied by the IGB.
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Alundil
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
591
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:YourSherpa wrote:Osi Shannara wrote:This is very odd. IGM (In Game (web) Browser) is not related in anyway to CREST (basically, REST web service APIs).
2. Headers are extremely useful for websites that cater to EVE players. 3. hmmm... what else ...
The headers information that the IGB currently gives to trusted websites will all be available via SSO and CREST when SSO and CREST rolls out in full. Instead of browsing to a website in game, getting asked to grant trust by that website and then reloading the page in game and giving that website static data, you will now browse to that website out of game, login in with the EVE SSO, and grant that website access to you chars public CREST information(all things found in current headers). On top of that, in the future you will also be able to grant that website to access your private CREST info for use in out of game 3rd party tools (such as eve mail reading and writing out of game). An additional benefit is not needing to have you IGB open and constantly refreshing to update your location in the headers, once you grant a website access to your information, it can say track your char location in space by itself which is extremely useful for applications for wormhole mapping. All of that sounds good... but you still won't be able to browse in the game window. And it would also be nice to have some other estimate on how likely we are to really see CREST implementation in a way that addresses the community's concerns. Something other than "It's coming." or "Soon (tm)." CREST has been teased for a long time now at this point. It also has a lot to live up to in terms of the possibility to enable 3rd Party devs to replicate existing functionality across all of the different use cases currently satisfied by the IGB.
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Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
140
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Posted - 2014.07.13 21:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
I can't imagine playing eve without the IGB.
- goggle docs/spreadsheet - Dotlan - eve survival, eve wiki - simple web browsing while doing mind numbing tasks, but need to keep easy focus on eve.
If I am playing Eve for more than 10 minutes I have opened up the IGB.
damn it is hard to delete my signature |
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