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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
314
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Posted - 2014.05.24 09:26:00 -
[91] - Quote
T2BPO's did destroy the industrial part of the game for a massive amount of players. I've met so many people who have played EVE then hit the T2BPO road block and simply unsubed. Many more read about T2BPO's and dev bias and just decided that EVE is not the E-Sport they wanted in on as its clear bias runs through out.
CCP's business model is terrible in this aspect they place far to much emphasis on older players than new player retention and thus EVE is dying & CCP is dying being kept barely afloat by allowing IS boxer and botting. CCP show time and time again that they can not even enforce their own rules and have upturned the sand box time and time again.
EVE is not real PLEX price will continue to spiral upwards as more and more players refuse to pay for this, don't worry bitter vets you will still get your monthly welfare hand out in the form of T2BPO income, ship reimbursements and heads up on upcoming changes. After all you provide F1, hold on gate jump Null-Sec PVP content, oh and youtube songs, LOLz. |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
155
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Posted - 2014.05.24 11:25:00 -
[92] - Quote
Oh no. Another one of these threads.
I'm not defending T2 BPO's and I won't be surprised if they do or don't get removed BUT the announced change to have invented T2 BPCs come out of the cooker at a minimum of ME0/PE0, or the post-Crius equivalent, will go a long way to levelling out the playing field.
That sentence was too long. Sorry. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3062
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Posted - 2014.05.24 14:23:00 -
[93] - Quote
Moving this from Science and Industry to Features and Ideas. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1387
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Posted - 2014.05.24 22:35:00 -
[94] - Quote
Faceless Enemy wrote:Was hoping someone from CCP would chime in.
They know it's a problem, as they even stated they would be removed. No, they actually stated more or less the opposite: CCP Eterne wrote:An FYI to cease the rumor mongering that is happening in this (and other) threads: There are currently no immediate plans to remove T2 BPOs from the game. The quoted post can be found here.
That said, I removed some rule braking posts and those quoting them. The Rules: 26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Captain Finklestein
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2014.05.24 22:39:00 -
[95] - Quote
Look at you Ezwal, with your logic, and your reason.... and your *gasp* FACTS! Who the hell do you think you are?
In staying on topic... if there are only a small amount of T2 BPO in the game then it is unlikely it will have any actual affect on other players or the economy.
Does that mean it's fair for them to keep it? Probably not. All other CCP gifts (as far as I know) need to be put at risk to be used. T2 BPO do not which is not very fair.
They were handed out for a set amount of research points. Pro-rate that to today's standard, give them the points and strip them of the BPO.
This is not the word of the gospel, I barely understanding the mechanics in invention, just a random opinion =). It's just more financially viable for me. |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
333
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Posted - 2014.05.25 03:30:00 -
[96] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:MailDeadDrop wrote:An alternative idea for T2 BPOs that has been rattling around in my head is "damage". I know that CCP is removing damage for tools (R.A.M. things), but the same mechanic still applies to T2 crystals. Why not apply it to T2 BPOs? Each run or copy does some small amount of damage to the blueprint.
Edit: the damage concept might be interesting as a replacement for "runs" on copies. CCP could then add POS modules/skills/whatever that affect the damage rate, which would allow the blueprint durability (now called "runs") to be manipulated up or down.
MDD I don't know, that seems to me to be just like runs on copies but a little more difficult to comprehend. The intention was multifold:
- Keep T2 BPOs in game. If a holder wants to produce from it, he may, but the print will eventually decay. If the holder doesn't produce from it, then they've still got their special snowflake (i.e. CCP didn't remove it).
- Make BPC durability ("runs") adjustable *after* invention, by having "things" which affect the damage rate at the time of production.
MDD |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3453
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Posted - 2014.05.25 10:41:00 -
[97] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:Faceless Enemy wrote:Was hoping someone from CCP would chime in.
They know it's a problem, as they even stated they would be removed. No, they actually stated more or less the opposite: CCP Eterne wrote:An FYI to cease the rumor mongering that is happening in this (and other) threads: There are currently no immediate plans to remove T2 BPOs from the game. The quoted post can be found here. Just to point out, that quote originally said "There are currently no plans to remove T2 BPOs from the game.". The word "immediate" was added in later. Would that not suggest to you that the post was edited because to say "no plans" was not accurate? With that being the case, that would suggest that for the long term, there are plans. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Faceless Enemy
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2014.05.25 23:25:00 -
[98] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:T2BPO's did destroy the industrial part of the game for a massive amount of players. I've met so many people who have played EVE then hit the T2BPO road block and simply unsubed. Many more read about T2BPO's and dev bias and just decided that EVE is not the E-Sport they wanted in on as its clear bias runs through out.
CCP's business model is terrible in this aspect they place far to much emphasis on older players than new player retention and thus EVE is dying & CCP is dying being kept barely afloat by allowing IS boxer and botting. CCP show time and time again that they can not even enforce their own rules and have upturned the sand box time and time again.
EVE is not real PLEX price will continue to spiral upwards as more and more players refuse to pay for this, don't worry bitter vets you will still get your monthly welfare hand out in the form of T2BPO income, ship reimbursements and heads up on upcoming changes. After all you provide F1, hold on gate jump Null-Sec PVP content, oh and youtube songs, LOLz.
Sing it from the aisles, brother.
Kill these things. |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1282
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Posted - 2014.05.25 23:34:00 -
[99] - Quote
So, I will choose to support this initiative IF you can link a spreadsheet listing EVERY T2 item produced over a year, how many were produced via a T2 BPO (copying or direct production), how many were produced by invention, and why the MINISCULE amount created through T2BPO somehow controls the entire market creating a stranglehold giving whoever has the BPO apparently enough ISK to buy out PL
(hint, most T2 BPO owner's claim to wealth is simply having the BPO that makes up 90% of their wealth they wont get back until they sell it, or simply own a T2 BPO because there other incomes are so ridiculous they can afford to sepnd it on something frivolous and novel like a T2 BPO)
Simply being "unneccesary" is not reason enough to remove something, else we could just remove corps, alliances, and the OP from the game, after all if those things were removed no one would notice anyways. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1414
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Posted - 2014.05.26 15:09:00 -
[100] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post.
The Rules: 31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.
Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the well being and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators. [i][b]31. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3966
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Posted - 2014.05.26 17:13:00 -
[101] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:T2BPO's did destroy the industrial part of the game for a massive amount of players. I've met so many people who have played EVE then hit the T2BPO road block and simply unsubed. Many more read about T2BPO's and dev bias and just decided that EVE is not the E-Sport they wanted in on as its clear bias runs through out.
CCP's business model is terrible in this aspect they place far to much emphasis on older players than new player retention and thus EVE is dying & CCP is dying being kept barely afloat by allowing IS boxer and botting. CCP show time and time again that they can not even enforce their own rules and have upturned the sand box time and time again.
EVE is not real PLEX price will continue to spiral upwards as more and more players refuse to pay for this, don't worry bitter vets you will still get your monthly welfare hand out in the form of T2BPO income, ship reimbursements and heads up on upcoming changes. After all you provide F1, hold on gate jump Null-Sec PVP content, oh and youtube songs, LOLz.
How many fallacies can you stick into the same post?
EvE is not dying.
Plex are not spiraling upwards at some insane level.
The "T2 BPO" roadblock doesn't exit for 95% of the modules in the game, and the few it does exist for are slow moving anyway. Any competent business producer would steer away from them.
Let me guess... there is some "skill point" roadblock that prevents a 1 week old player from engaging in PvP too... What utter bullshit!
CCP's business plan is pretty solid in my eyes. The game is balanced so a young player can swing the tides of combat just like an older player. Where it takes a week or two to be competent, but months to master most professions, while a lack of master doesn't leave you noncompetitive. A place where RL wealth can be brought into the game in a manner that benefits everyone. Is the game perfect, hell NO. There are lots of areas in need of improvement. As for T2 BPO's though, they are the common scapegoat for all green-eyed uneducated industrialist out there. Hell, when I first learned of them, before I really understood the invention mechanics, and the techniques players employ to optimize their production, I too called them out as unfair and QQ'd over not being able to compete. The truth is, invention competes just fine in most of t2 production. There is plenty of room to make isk, and there are tricks you can use to optimize your profitability.
I'll be very saddened (as a non-T2 BPO Owner) if CCP removes them from the game or destroys their functionality. To all those that feel cheated by them, you do yourself a disservice by scapegoating them as the cause of your problems rather than truly investigating the options before you. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3456
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Posted - 2014.05.27 06:39:00 -
[102] - Quote
LOL ISDs removing pure fact and classing it as "rumor mongering". Good show. I challenge you to show in my post which part was "based off no actual solid information". The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Arronicus
X-Prot Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
996
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Posted - 2014.05.27 06:43:00 -
[103] - Quote
Allow me to say something new that has not been said about this at least 50 different times: |
Absinyth
Pacifica. M I R A G E
4
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Posted - 2014.05.27 10:18:00 -
[104] - Quote
Faceless Enemy wrote:PETITION: remove T2 BPOs from the game entirely.
1. They fundamentally undermine an entire existing mechanic.
2. They heavily distort the market results of said mechanic.
3. Per Fanfest, they are already slated to go at some point.
4. This is supposed to be an industrial overhaul; let's overhaul.
5. People defending them either own them or are part of organizations which own them.
Why would you want to get rid of T2 BPOs from the game? So, people who have played the game a long time and acquired a T2 BPO should no longer be allowed to have it, use it, and benefit from it?
I don't see how anything is distorted unless you're referring to the invention process and output that is generated as a result of a successfully completed invention job. Originally, the negative values were put in place so that T2 BPOs were not suddenly useless. Although it would be nice to achieve a 0 level from an invention copy, and T2 BPOs would still be useful and important as the owners can research them to higher levels. A fact that you cannot do the same to invention BPCs.
What wrong with people defending their assets? Just sounds like your complaining because you want a T2 BPO but cannot get one. Maybe your post should be to petition CCP to start to reseed T2 BPOs instead?
I've been seeing a trend to nullify the role people who do S&I activities in this game. If the majority of people feel that way then just remove S&I completely from the game instead of beating around the bush and complaining about this aspect of gameplay. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3073
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Posted - 2014.05.27 16:16:00 -
[105] - Quote
Removed a post discussing moderation. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Tachidii
Osiris Laboratories
10
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Posted - 2014.06.03 13:55:00 -
[106] - Quote
T2 BPO Roadblock?! LOL
I was NOT one of the fortunate ones to get handed a T2 Bpo when you still could get them via inventions. I never saw this as a "roadblock" or even unfair. I simply set myself a few goals and try and achieve them. After all, that is why I am playing Eve. It is way easier to make Isk these days then when I started this game.
I for one, are going to be very pissed when they make these changes to inventions. CCP is going to devalue T2 BPO so much, meaning I and a lot of other people going to loose huge amounts of asset value, which most of us work for and achieved over the years.
I don't care what anyone else says, its unfair to T2 bpo owners. It was part of the game, I build my empire around owning and reselling T2 Bpos. If CCP devalue T2 BPOs in any way, causing me to loose huge amounts of Isk in the process, I will cancel all my accounts. It is just disrespectful to their clients. What ever the problems are with T2 BPOs, its not our fault and we don't deserve to be penalized in the process trying to fix the problems everyone are crying about. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
315
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Posted - 2014.06.03 14:12:00 -
[107] - Quote
Sadly, this is like 'Remove Supers!'
*Insert obligatory and very desirable 'Death to Supers!'*
But, there are people(and more than just 1 or 2) who spent ALOT of isk on those T2 BPO's, or have taken great care to keep them this long, or on those supers and titans.... and it would do alot more harm than good at the moment. They will need to be resolved sooner or later, one way or another, but at the moment, there isn't a good way to do it, nor would it be anything resembling a good business practice to suddenly yoink stuff that people put so much into. The Law is a point of View |
BugraT WarheaD
115
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Posted - 2014.06.24 15:49:00 -
[108] - Quote
isk cost of something isn't a valuable argument to state if this thing is a good or a bad thing in the game. |
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
24
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Posted - 2014.06.24 17:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
Absinyth wrote:What wrong with people defending their assets? Just sounds like your complaining because you want a T2 BPO but cannot get one. Maybe your post should be to petition CCP to start to reseed T2 BPOs instead?
unfortunately the thing with that is that ccp already declared that they would not be doing anymore t2 bpo lotteries after the last one. I like many others who were playing at that time were disappointed with that especially since we weren't lucky enough to win said bpo's from the lotto. This created a distaste for ccp's decision making and design at the time of how to seed them into the game as it favoured those with active and inactive accounts when they were still able to gather research points off of inactive accounts, only to reactivate them during the seeding phase.
personally I see no problem with T2 bpo's still being left in the game as with the future changes to invention regardless of when they'll enter the game, it will allow inventors to control the markets a lot better than any said t2 bpo owner thanks to being able to achieve bpc's with ME 5 and bpo's achieving no more than ME10 regardless of being over researched or not pre sirus release. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2257
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Posted - 2014.06.24 17:24:00 -
[110] - Quote
Holy cats! It's this thread! |
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Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2014.06.24 18:49:00 -
[111] - Quote
Why do this thread show up so often? There is no proof that T2 BPO can corner the market on any item, and removing them would upset the economy realy bad. T2 BPO value is based on its sell price, for manufacturing its better to use your isk on something else. |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1379
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Posted - 2014.06.24 19:34:00 -
[112] - Quote
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:Why do this thread show up so often? There is no proof that T2 BPO can corner the market on any item, and removing them would upset the economy realy bad. T2 BPO value is based on its sell price, for manufacturing its better to use your isk on something else. Consdiering with a BPO you can either run one job, or make a copy and THEN run 2 jobs, whereas invention you just start stacking up BPCs, then compared to the sheer amount of people doing invention compared to the number of people who even OWN a T2BPO let alone use it, and you arrive at the conclusion of T2 BPOs really arent worth **** outside of collector/epeen value, which is what people want them for in the first place.
People whining about T2 BPOs wont suddenly do industry more after they are gone, theyre likely the same people who are unemployed for years and complain about foreigners coming in and taking jobs that they never bothered to take. Its self-entitlement, they see something that there isnt enough of to go around, and they want it either handed out to everyone like candy, or forcefully removed with no comparable compensation. OP probably thinks there needs to be more nullsec systems too to solve the space issue (which it wouldnt) (also as likely to solve the nullsec issue as removing T2 BPOs would solve any industry income disparities) |
Lyndis Surge
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.06.24 20:04:00 -
[113] - Quote
This sounds more like childishly banging on a desk because you don't have a shiny toy the rich kid has.
You are aware that Blueprints are destructible, correct? Tech II Railgun BPOs are just as fragile to life in EVE as the most useless Tech I BPO. That is why very few of them exist. That is why they are jealously guarded, and that is, in part, why they are so expensive and sought-after.
The new Industry update will arguably make them even more vulnerable, considering they cannot be used remotely from Starbases(which are destructible) anymore. Have you considered this?
I reckon these, amongst other, perhaps stronger, points are why CCP hasn't moved actively to remove these Blueprints. And to be honest, I couldn't care that much about it.
In response to the capital ship argument: Capital Ships leftover in High Sec are destructible and have been dying every so often. The fact that ships like the Veldnaught still exist is simply a combination of intense carebearing and massive popularity. |
Inshallah Eichman
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.06.25 05:28:00 -
[114] - Quote
It is an unfair setup and there may have been favoritism to certain individuals in the "lottery" process, but I am not sure how much it matters.
Some facts: Invention is worthless, yes we all know that. It would be more worth our time if there were no TII BPOs. They are endless ISK generating machines. If you had to buy one and CCP didn't select you to get one, they were expensive. If you have BPOs you DO NOT want them removed. If you are an inventor without them you WANT them removed. If you are a normal person buying TII items... I am not sure but you probably don't want them removed. It seem like the prices for TII items will actually increase, not decrease.
That being said. Either remove them completely, or allow players access to them again via invention or some other "fair" path. Everyone playing the game should have known a "lottery" is total BS.
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