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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Anthar Thebess
427
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Posted - 2014.05.22 08:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello.
Currently there is no split between ship sizes. Right now fuel consumption for travelling 1 Ly on all V jump drive skills looks like this :
Non Combat: Jump Freighter : 775 isotopes Ronqual : 500 isotopes
Combat: Carrier : 500 isotopes Dreadnought : 500 isotopes SuperCarrier: 500 isotopes Titan: 500 isotopes
Of course some of those ships have different jump range - still that's not the issue here.
Lets look now at the ship sizes : EVE SHIP SIZES
For me make no sense that jumping the same distance for a carrier , and for a titan that is using the same amount of fuel.
What i'm proposing is to link fuel consumption on all those ships to their size, and use based on their size , and focus only on combat capital and super capital ships.
We are using Carrier as a base reference for this and keep current fuel requirements:
Carrier : 500 isotopes Dreadnought : 600 isotopes * * as this is still a capital ship using just a bigger model
As for super capital ships: SuperCarrier: 2000 isotopes Titan: 6000 isotopes
Those values are open to discussion - and adjustable in the upcoming change. All those ships fuel bay needs to be expanded to keep their current range.
Why do i think this is good for game: 1. This kind of change will allow creating new content in the game , as moving super capital feet will be much more expensive , and their deployment to some areas of space more permanent. 2. Capital ships will be much more spread out - because of the immense cost of re staging them. 3. Next B-R is more likely to happen. Current big blocks every day save their capitals and super capitals doping immense force to clear tackle. After this change it will take more time to gather necessary force , allowing escalation not only based on the TIDI Factor. 4. Eve will be more real - titan fuel requirements similar to carrier that is few dozen times smaller.
Yes you can call this supercapital nerf. Still the nerf is not for the power projections they offer , but to the costs of their use. After this change they will be as same useful on battlefield like before ( if not more deadly ) , they will have the same range.
Jump Fuel Requirements based on ship size |
Gather Irvam
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2014.05.22 08:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 |
Cerneus
Beach Boys C0VEN
25
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Posted - 2014.05.22 09:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Looks good. |
Szczurek
BSX Industries Inver Brass
1
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Posted - 2014.05.22 10:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
+1 |
Anthar Thebess
444
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Posted - 2014.05.22 10:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thx for support. Please post also why do you like or don't like this idea. Jump Fuel Requirements based on ship size |
Thelonious Blake
103
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Posted - 2014.05.22 11:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
I have participated in very few capital fights and 0 supercapital. Although that I like your idea that there should be some consistency in jump drive fuel consumption. Maybe base it on ship mass, not size: Shield supers? Nano titans?
Black Op fuel consumption should be adjusted too... Either by what you propose, or alternatively give them role bonus which would reduce their jump (and maybe even bridge) fuel consumption.
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Anthar Thebess
447
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Posted - 2014.05.22 11:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thelonious Blake wrote:I have participated in very few capital fights and 0 supercapital. Although that I like your idea that there should be some consistency in jump drive fuel consumption. Maybe base it on ship mass, not size: Shield supers? Nano titans?
Black Op fuel consumption should be adjusted too... Either by what you propose, or alternatively give them role bonus which would reduce their jump (and maybe even bridge) fuel consumption.
That was my first idea, but to simplify lets just use base ship type , by their class: - Carrier - Dread - Super Carrier - Titan
As no one can deny big difference between capitals and super capitals. At the same time size difference between super carrier and titan is to big to be ignored.
If we connect their mass to fuel usage, then each ship in a fleet could burn different amount of fuel , and i don't think that CCP is willing to accept this level of complexity in this game.
I don't say that this is good or bad , still it could be to much complex. Jump Fuel Requirements based on ship size |
Creinar
Blackwater Company C0VEN
0
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Posted - 2014.05.22 14:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
From my point of view saying that it's because of their size is more like flavor text for a tooltip, but I fully support making Supercaps use more fuel than smaller vessels. As the OP said, that should make owners of supercap fleets more hesitant to move large number of ships in short periods of time. |
Anthar Thebess
447
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Posted - 2014.05.22 19:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Please keep this topic visible if you like this change. Jump Fuel Requirements based on ship size |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2668
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sounds to me like it'd make it harder for smaller groups to throw thier big toys around, without affecting the bigger ones.
Would you increase the fuel bays of everything above a carrier, or force more midpoints, more painful logistics and more hurdles for anyone not in N3/PL/CFC to overcome?
Also, i'm pretty sure this would make the next BR-5 LESS likley, not more. |
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Anthar Thebess
450
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Posted - 2014.05.22 21:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Actually it will be quite different. Small groups are not relocating so often. So they will have bigger chance to achieve something when titans will be spread out.
Jump Fuel Requirements based on ship size |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2669
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Posted - 2014.05.22 22:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Actually it will be quite different. Small groups are not relocating so often. So they will have bigger chance to achieve something when titans will be spread out.
And why would titans be spread out? You'd be FORCING them to stay closer to where the fuel stashes are. |
Anthar Thebess
451
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Posted - 2014.05.22 22:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
No this change will force to keep titans and supercarriers spread out to have bigger area covered for smaller ops and subcaps bridging.
Sooner or later someone will be caught in a super , and gathering all nearby will take enough time for thighs to escalate.
Still main goal of this change is to change this nonsense that a titan is using the same amount fuel as a much more smaller carrier. Jump Fuel Requirements based on ship size |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1411
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Posted - 2014.05.22 23:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Howabout make the fuel consumption be 1 unit per light year per 2250 tons mass? Lets see how that plays out:
Fuel for 1ly jump
Sin: 57 Widow: 61
Nidhoggur: 451 Chimera: 528
Rorqual: 524
Nidhoggur: 501 Phoenix: 587
Hel: 627 Wyvern: 734
Ragnarok: 923 Leviathan: 1080
On second thought, maybe the mass of the supercapitals should go up. Like a lot. Also, howabout keep the jump fuel bays within a class to the same size, so that the smaller and faster variants have a small jump range advantage as well? Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2670
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Posted - 2014.05.23 01:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:No this change will force to keep titans and supercarriers spread out to have bigger area covered for smaller ops and subcaps bridging.
Sooner or later someone will be caught in a super , and gathering all nearby will take enough time for thighs to escalate.
Still main goal of this change is to change this nonsense that a titan is using the same amount fuel as a much more smaller carrier.
No, this change will keep supers and non bridge titans securely locked up in supercap staging systems, where the fuel stores live. Why risk going somewhere else if you're suddenly using fifty times more fuel and you don't have a fuel store on hand?
Why do you think people will spread out their supers instead of keeping them at centralised staging systems with huge fuel stores, like they do currently? |
Mallori
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
0
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Posted - 2014.05.23 06:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Probably you should ask about the Jump Idea.
In my opinion it should be related to the ship mass with the cargo, something like the jump through the wormhole.
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Janek666
Virtual Democracy C0VEN
4
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Posted - 2014.05.23 07:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
That would be a one small step in a right direction. This, plus other machanics should be applied ASAP to make huge rentier empires unprofitable. |
Anthar Thebess
464
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Posted - 2014.05.23 09:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
This is not only to reduce "big blue wonder" , but only to make all thing more sensible.
Right now in eve terms the same amount of fuel use a "eco city car" and "16 wheel truck" while moving from point A to Point B Jump Fuel Requirements based on ship size |
Colonel Mortis
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.05.23 09:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Howabout make the fuel consumption be 1 unit per light year per 2250 tons mass? Lets see how that plays out:
Fuel for 1ly jump
Sin: 57 Widow: 61
Nidhoggur: 451 Chimera: 528
Rorqual: 524
Nidhoggur: 501 Phoenix: 587
Hel: 627 Wyvern: 734
Ragnarok: 923 Leviathan: 1080
On second thought, maybe the mass of the supercapitals should go up. Like a lot. Also, howabout keep the jump fuel bays within a class to the same size, so that the smaller and faster variants have a small jump range advantage as well?
Yes in this case supercapital ship mass is a bit low.
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Zikko Zinn
LOST IDEA C0VEN
0
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Posted - 2014.05.23 09:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
+1 |
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Peter Ford
Rohan Innovations
1
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Posted - 2014.05.23 09:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Yeah BIG +++++ |
Janek666
Virtual Democracy C0VEN
7
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Posted - 2014.05.23 09:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:This is not only to reduce "big blue wonder" , but only to make all thing more sensible.
Right now in eve terms the same amount of fuel use a "eco city car" and "16 wheel truck" while moving from point A to Point B
Yes, from that perspective it makes even more sense.
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Anthar Thebess
465
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Posted - 2014.05.24 23:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Thank you. More support is needed. Jump Fuel Requirements based on ship size |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1427
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Posted - 2014.05.24 23:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Anthar, what are your thoughts on altering Supercapital mass, its implications, and how to deal with them? I ask because I am interested in a system which uses ship mass to determine jump fuel cost, but it could only fit what you and I believe is adequate fuel costs if supercapital mass were increased dramatically. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Anthar Thebess
466
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Posted - 2014.05.25 10:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Anthar, what are your thoughts on altering Supercapital mass, its implications, and how to deal with them? I ask because I am interested in a system which uses ship mass to determine jump fuel cost, but it could only fit what you and I believe is adequate fuel costs if supercapital mass were increased dramatically.
My idea is not to base it on a mass , but on a subclass 1.Carrier fuel usage as base. 2.Dread burns a bit more 3.Mother ship far more than a carrier 4.Titans burning way more than a mothership.
Because right now titans - few dozen times bigger than a carrier use the same amount of fuel like a carrier for traveling 1 LY. Jump Fuel Requirements based on ship size |
Ian Ovaert
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2014.05.26 11:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
LIKE IT! |
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor
44
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Posted - 2014.05.26 17:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fantastic idea. From what I recall,using jump bridges and jump portals requires fuel based on ship size (mass in this case), so why shouldn't the immense size of a super or Titan cost that much more to move than a carrier? I think it goes a long way to improving the power projection situation with supers and titans.
Personally, I don't like the idea of B-R situations. Hundreds of the largest ships in the universe being killed in the same place at the same time seems unrealistic and contrived. However, that is the subject of a different thread, I'm sure!
So for this idea, totally plus 1!! Cedric
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Daoden
The Scope Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2014.05.26 19:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
+1 |
Anthar Thebess
470
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Posted - 2014.05.27 07:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Thank you for support. Still we need more for dev to notice the topic, and way more for make this change happen. Jump Fuel Usage Based on Ship Size Interdiction Siphon Unit |
Arronicus
X-Prot Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
997
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Posted - 2014.05.27 08:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
I disagree with this because increasing the cost will do absolutely nothing at all to limit force projection of major alliances, big groups like goons and PL make ridiculous amounts of isk, but rather will simply tax smaller players and smaller corporations cutting into their bottom lines. You're talking about increasing the price of gas basically, to hurt the rich, and ignoring the middle class. |
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