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Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
339
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Posted - 2014.05.23 08:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello everyone. I know most idea threads in here tend to come under intense fire, particularly from veteran members of the wormhole community. I've only been a wormholer for about a year, but I've become rather addicted to the space and plan to stay. With that in mind, I was pondering my skill training and considered training black ops battleships. When something has a tag like "the final word in clandestine maneuvers", I immediately jump to the conclusion that it will be great in the stealth-heavy environment of wormhole space. Community consensus seems to be, however, that black ops overall aren't that great for wormhole space, with the Widow being perhaps the lone exception I've seen due to its heavy ECM capabilities. While black ops currently serve their purpose as recon gang force projection in kspace nullsec, the "final word in clandestine maneuvers" shouldn't stop at just that in my opinion. This is a very advanced ship that requires a decent allotment of training time, and in wormhole space where stealth is so important it seems counter-intuitive to me that black ops are so limited in their usefulness.
So I had an idea. What if black ops battleships could be immune to polarization at the cost of fuel from their fuel bay? This would allow them to play polarization games and generally be more slippery than any other ship in its size class, and would give more options to pilots who want to fly ships larger than medium hulls but still participate successfully in the stealth PvP meta; this is particularly true in low-class space in my opinion.
What are your thoughts everyone? Should blackops be able to defy polarization by using up fuel in their fuel bay? I haven't come up with any specific numbers in regards to fuel cost, but I wanted to stick the general idea out there for feedback.
I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.
Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever |
dirtydebbs
Salamander Researches And Industries
13
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Posted - 2014.05.23 08:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
hmmmm troll?
but hey anyways
1. 1b ship for the tank it can have its useless 2. heavy mass 3. cant warp cloaked 4. t3 has more tank and can warp cloke
polarization games.... cant see that doing anything useful or fun and no use apart from hiding form people wanting to kill u, but u cant run cos u cant cloke |
Trinity Griffin
Clann Fian
3
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Posted - 2014.05.23 08:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'd like a reason to buy one, but to have them immune to polarization would be just too OP. |
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn
Querschlaeger
0
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Posted - 2014.05.23 08:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
This is not a good idea because the closing of the WHs would be too easy. Because you were able to close a wh in under a minute. It would be only abused for that. |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North Black Legion.
415
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Posted - 2014.05.23 08:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn wrote:This is not a good idea because the closing of the WHs would be too easy. Because you were able to close a wh in under a minute. It would be only abused for that.
Top lel.
Implying you can't already close a WH in like 5 seconds.
Edit: Also with regard to OP who cares, blops are **** in w-space because they're only marginally ok in k-space because of their cyno-hot drop capability. This is not available in wormholes, and is why they suck. They're ****** BS with crappy stats. Just don't use them, no need to make them good in all environments. They excel in their own niche right now and this is fine. |
Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
339
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Posted - 2014.05.23 09:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
I've been passing along the idea to others in-game and I've heard a lot of concerns about being able to more safely roll holes or how generally OP polarization immunity would be. I'd like to remind readers that the fuel cost could be as large as needs be to balance this ability. Additionally, there's nothing saying that the ship's mass couldn't be heavily reduced during this process; we see it all the time in multibubble HICs. Anyway it's my hope that if CCP ever does rebalance black ops they take wormhole space into account, and using that fuel bay for temporary polarization immunity seemed fitting to me when considering the ship class's role of accompanying and supporting covert gangs.
I'm still collecting feedback, even if "nope" seems to be the early consensus. I too really want to find an excuse to buy one
I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.
Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever |
RudinV
Syndicate of Death BLOOD UNION
252
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Posted - 2014.05.23 09:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Streya Jormagdnir wrote: I've only been a wormholer for about a year, but I've become rather addicted to the space and plan to stay. With that in mind, I was pondering my skill training and considered training black ops battleships.
level of logic is too damn high. idea-no. |
dirtydebbs
Salamander Researches And Industries
13
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Posted - 2014.05.23 09:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
tbh if u want a reason to buy one you don't have to look far to find good BO corps that use them as intended |
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
102
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Posted - 2014.05.23 09:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
One of their overlooked uses is the bonus to no target delay after decloaking. This make them ideal for one specific use in wh space. Cloaky wh sniping. Sit 100k off. Uncloak. Snipe. Then either mjd off or cloak up again. The panther with its alpha is the most ideal ship for this. Otherwise you can always take them out through a direct null and bridge off a cloaky t3 fleet. ~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
42
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Posted - 2014.05.23 11:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Black ops have 50k tons more mass than standard battlships, they are ideal for collapsing stuff and should be used for such! |
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Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
16
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Posted - 2014.05.23 11:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
What we really need is a tech 3 battleship to rule them all. Just one with lots of subsystems, none of that 4 different races variations. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
598
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Posted - 2014.05.23 11:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn wrote:This is not a good idea because the closing of the WHs would be too easy. Because you were able to close a wh in under a minute. It would be only abused for that. Top lel. Implying you can't already close a WH in like 5 seconds. Edit: Also with regard to OP who cares, blops are **** in w-space because they're only marginally ok in k-space because of their cyno-hot drop capability. This is not available in wormholes, and is why they suck. They're ****** BS with crappy stats. Just don't use them, no need to make them good in all environments. They excel in their own niche right now and this is fine.
Get a nanopanther and get gooder. Is like a minimach with a cloak and jumpdrive, ideal diving tool. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
339
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Posted - 2014.05.23 20:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
I've been looking at arty Panther fits and it runs into powergrid issues. It seems this thing tank with range, speed, and cloaking (which is just my style! ). The Widow strikes me as a giant Falcon but otherwise doesn't have as much speed/survivability for the buck. I haven't checked out the Redeemer or Sin but I hear they're terrible, so any thoughts on them would be welcome. Even if CCP doesn't make any wormhole-specific buffs to black ops I can definitely see their usefulness wherever low/null holes are involved. Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.
Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever |
ARMED1
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
42
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Posted - 2014.05.24 00:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
To the OP - I say no, no and no.
Reason 1 - nothing about WH space should be "safe" or "safer" than it is right now.
Reason 2 - forget about Black Ops in WH space. T3s have them beat in pretty much every way. If you are going to embark on a long skill intensive training plan and you want that plan to end in a ship that is useful in WH space - train either for caps or for leadership. |
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1506
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Posted - 2014.05.24 01:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. ISD LackOfFaith Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums. |
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Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
339
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Posted - 2014.05.24 15:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thanks for the move LackOfFaith, wasn't sure where to put a wspace-specific idea like this. What do you think F&I, should blops' extra mobility in low/null be mirrored in wspace with fueled polarization immunity? I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.
Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever |
ViRtUoZone
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
25
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Posted - 2014.05.24 18:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Immunity to polarization would be a tad OP in my opinion, however I would love to see a role for these guys in wormholes and it's always great to see creative ideas. |
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2014.05.25 02:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
I will +1 the concept... but with a module fit instead of an automatic jump fuel cost. The module activation would require a non trivial amount of jump fuel, reduce the mass of the ship like ia bubble's HIC does, and have a cool down of around 30 sec.
So it would not allow instantaneous jump back and forth, but the polarization effect would be significantly reduced. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1434
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Posted - 2014.05.25 17:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
I can think of one way to make Black Ops useful in wormhole space, but I don't think wormhole space dwellers will like it:
It would involve putting the wormhole systems in some intrinsic location near each other and giving some way of being able to tell when a ship in one system is near a ship in another, so that a ship or fleet could be placed in an adjacent WH system and use a jump portal to bridge from the one to the other. Only way I can see that going is either: A.) it's too easy to setup and wormhole dwellers get their stations blasted on a regular basis, or B.) it's not easy enough and becomes a functionality that barely gets used at all
I think the biggest problem with the idea is that wormhole space isn't so much about stealth as it is about being cut off. You don't have to be quiet when there's nobody within earshot. And when you're walking through soundproofed hallways, there might be someone right around the corner, playing disco music at full volume, and they could be outside of earshot. W-space is kind of like being in soundproofed hallways. The stealth aspect becomes less about hiding from intel and more about taking advantage of the lack of intel.
It might be nice to have a new ship class designed to take advantage of that lack of intel. Perhaps a strategic battleship, given that tech 3 ship technology comes from sleepers (so far).
p.s.: what is polarization? Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
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