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Crazy Dave
Smugglers Run Inc
7
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Posted - 2014.05.27 15:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
True EvE is a game. If you go to the website and look at the historical video about how EvE came to be. the designers had originally wanted the game to be as realistic as possible but in a futuristic setting. The game is based from a 1980's series game called Elite or so they said and was designed by 5 individuals. Anyways back to the subject.....
The purpose for self destructing a ship is prevent anything on the ship from ever being used. If a player chooses to self destruct their ship, then that is what should occur. Most if not all items on the ship should be rendered either completely useless or require money to fix. IMHO when they re did the self destruct option, the Dev's went a little too far. They rendered it virtually useless and grossly one sided. Completely eliminating one option a player could have to avoid being destroyed. Negotiation. The option should either be redesigned to allow this or it should be completely removed from the game.
The reason it was re written was to keep players from denying the aggressors their kill. Which is fine, Let them have their little rubber stamp so they can gloat. But still allow the player to be able to use that as a tactical means of negotiation. If they feel they need to self destruct, then render anything on that ship either useless or requiring various degrees of repair expenses once the self destruct occurs. Make the function more level vice tilted to one side or the other. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3291
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Posted - 2014.05.27 16:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:A better question is;
Is there a disadvantage? exhaustive research into the subject has discovered there's a chance of exploding your spaceship |
Kaidu Kahn
POT Corp Semper Ardens Alliance
58
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Posted - 2014.05.27 16:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Crazy Dave wrote:I am told eve was designed to mimic the real world as much as possible in most aspects of the game. So in the real world, self destructing your ship ( or scuttling as its called in the Naval parlance) should render your ship and everything on it completely useless to any aggressors.
Is this true in eve? or is it just basically a use less option that does nothing but end a fight allowing the aggressors to take still be able to use any survivable equipment? GM or DEV input appreciated. Thanks!
1. Deny the enemy a killmail 2. Take out some of your cargo in the process (Used to be everything but not anymore) 3. Easy way to find an exit to a wormhole (destruct your pod) 4. Fireworks are pretty
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Crazy Dave
Smugglers Run Inc
8
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Posted - 2014.05.27 17:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kaidu Kahn wrote:Crazy Dave wrote:I am told eve was designed to mimic the real world as much as possible in most aspects of the game. So in the real world, self destructing your ship ( or scuttling as its called in the Naval parlance) should render your ship and everything on it completely useless to any aggressors.
Is this true in eve? or is it just basically a use less option that does nothing but end a fight allowing the aggressors to take still be able to use any survivable equipment? GM or DEV input appreciated. Thanks! 1. Deny the enemy a killmail 2. Take out some of your cargo in the process (Used to be everything but not anymore) 3. Easy way to find an exit to a wormhole (destruct your pod) 4. Fireworks are pretty
The Dev's reversed number 1. #2 should result in all items being lost or severely damaged to allow for the possibility of negotiations. 3 is useful lest you like seclusion from the rest of the game. The explosions are nice. But they should prolong the destruction by showing little explosions taking place before the big one. an Improvement for that would be to allow a second option for low sec or null that would allow for anything near by to get damaged or destroyed. Damage based on the size of the ship that is self destructing. |
Miles Winter
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
6
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Posted - 2014.05.28 22:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Scuttling would see some use if ships were ever actually in danger of being captured.
For example, if you had a fleet docked up in a station that you were about to lose. Scuttling the fleet, rather than letting it fall into the enemy hands, might be applicable.
Historically, that's pretty much the reason why you'd ever scuttle an otherwise working vessel. For example: The scuttling of the French fleet at Toulon, or the failure of the Ukrainian fleet to scuttle in Crimea (more recently - although AFAIK most of those ships are so outdated they're being turned into museum pieces or scrapped anyways). |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
731
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Posted - 2014.05.28 22:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote:Crazy Dave wrote:I am told eve was designed to mimic the real world as much as possible in most aspects of the game. So in the real world, self destructing your ship ( or scuttling as its called in the Naval parlance) should render your ship and everything on it completely useless to any aggressors. Realism was never a part of EVE. It's closer than most games but it's still a game and therefore can never be realistic.
LOL wut?
If you want realistic self destructs, play KSP, where you might purposefully crash craft or spent stages to reduce space debris. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1505
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Posted - 2014.05.28 22:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Naomi Hale wrote: Realism was never a part of EVE. It's closer than most games but it's still a game and therefore can never be realistic.
In real life delicate computer and mechanical components don't tend to survive massive explosions unscathed. Since ships in EVE are almost always over 100m+ long any explosion that destroys the ship should ruin any working components. That's why I like the salvaging feature so much, you get burnt out, damaged or malfunctioning parts and scrap metal, which is what would be left in a destroyed ship.
In EVE you don't even need to repair the modules you loot from wrecks, you can slap it straight on your hull. Not realistic. You should get salvaged parts and a lump of scrap metal equal to or less than the total mass of the ship, not intact ammo, turrets, launchers or hull plates. That's just weird.
Oh, of course, but that applies both to self destruction and destruction at someone elses hands. The OP was pushing for self-destruction being somehow a "more effective" means of destroying your own ship, based on the fact that "it is" in real life. I was merely contesting that point, because as far as I can tell (of course, I'm no expert here), it isn't. you understand that "destroying" a ship only means making it incapable of fighting or retreating? In real life noone will just blow ship to pieces when it is already helpless.
In comparison self-destructing can be planned and well implemented rendering every important part of the ship useless.
If you want other RL examples take a look to buildings. What happens when building gets destroyed by external attack (for example 9/11 or earthquakes) and when people making it "self-destructs" (preparing it to blow placing explosives in right places, etc...). Results are totally different.
Yes, in Eve we get the same result: wreck. But this is only because of lazy game mechanics. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Thea Caulder
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.05.28 22:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Not exactly an answer but somewhat humourous...
I screwed up my first training mission and quit out and requested it again. As a consequence I ended up with two Velator's. I wasn't sure what to do with the first one so I self destructed and ejected to the second one.
It was after that when I discovered I could have sold it. Duh!
The good news is I sold all the ones I got when I kept screwing up subsequent missions. Ended up with a wad of ISK. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1505
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Posted - 2014.05.28 22:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
Thea Caulder wrote:Not exactly an answer but somewhat humourous...
I screwed up my first training mission and quit out and requested it again. As a consequence I ended up with two Velator's. I wasn't sure what to do with the first one so I self destructed and ejected to the second one.
It was after that when I discovered I could have sold it. Duh!
The good news is I sold all the ones I got when I kept screwing up subsequent missions. Ended up with a wad of ISK. Velator? Can be sold??? The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1437
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Posted - 2014.05.28 22:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote:You used to be able to self-destruct your ship to prevent it's cargo and modules from falling into the enemy hands. It also provided the victim with a bargaining chip for settling on a ransom rather than total destruction. With a two minute timer though, such cases were not very common.
Recently CCP changed mechanics so that self-destructing has the same effect as your ship being blown up so it is no longer a viable tactic.
I used to use it to deny my enemy victory if i couldn't win, as they would be denied a kill mail.
this was a common strategy amongst the player base and caused much whining and gnashing of teeth so ccp changed it so that your enemy gets the kill mail anyway, so it's now a useless option. I didn't do it often but this change really annoyed me as unrealistic. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
598
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Posted - 2014.05.28 23:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Last measure. Pah! When engaging an enemy, you activate self destruct. If you cannot defeat the enemy before the timer is down, you will go down in flames. This will motivate everyone to kill the target as quickly as possible and not bother with dishonourable things like repairs or logistics. Low slots are all damage and application mods and a number of expanded cargoholds to denote your rank. Only once no enemy is left on grid are you allowed to disengage self destruct. Anyone forfeiting this codex gets kicked and declared kill on sight as a filthy heretic. There is precedent for this. It is called Concord. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
La'Krul
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
98
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Posted - 2014.05.29 19:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Simply put, it prevents griefing by players holding another player tackled for hours on end. |
Ahost Gceo
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
113
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Posted - 2014.05.29 19:06:00 -
[43] - Quote
It serves as a way for people to deny killmails and loot to those who are sieging their POS.
Pretty poor if you ask me, but it is standard. I'm a friggin' banana. |
Vivec Septim
The Bene Gesserit Sanctuary Pact
23
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Posted - 2014.05.29 20:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
I love doing it when I am 'taken hostage'. Talk to them like you are just ABOUT to give them the ransom, then BOOM, insta-pod warp out of danger.
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
612
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Posted - 2014.05.29 20:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Come on, go get your answer the scientific way, not by asking.
Go in game and do it. You'll find out all you need to know through experiencing it. this is the scientific way... you ask, get a 100 answers, then average them together. -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Marsha Mallow
787
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Posted - 2014.05.29 20:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
I appear to be the only one to use self destruct to indicate boredom during structure bashing ops. Helps when it's a corp dread. Also when logging in 3 regions from home and suffering from lazyitis I have SD'd a fair few bs. No joy on reimbursement tho :| Self destructing your ship generally on long ops is helpful feedback that the FC is being annoying, you have better things to do and you're rich and stroppy. SD still has it's uses. After a few too many months hauling I did once go onto Sisi and self destruct 20 freighters for theraputic reasons. Was quite fun. Then someone kindly mentioned Red Frog, and suggested I outsource hauling. Probably too busy facepalming to thank that person properly.
I know some players deliberately overheat their priciest mods til they pop hoping they'll be destroyed rather than drop if they know they are losing a fight, but I don't know if it works. Mainly to deprive people of loot. It's a similar thing with self destruct, although people who used to do it were held in contempt for trying to deprive killmails. Trying to get people down before the SD timer was always entertaining, even now people rush to get on the KM and die like tards en route. Shooting wrecks you can't reach to stop others looting is also quite amusing if you're feeling mean. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Noir. Mercenary Group
665
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Posted - 2014.05.29 21:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
I think the change to allow killmails when self destructing is right. I still think it should destroy all loot if you do it though. Like a last middle finger before you pop. I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance. |
Dominus Tempus
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
68
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Posted - 2014.05.29 21:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
Podex pls |
Winter Archipelago
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
219
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Posted - 2014.05.29 22:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
For one, Self Destruct is useful when you find a big, expensive ship in a wormhole POS that someone has foolishly allowed to go without fuel. You can get a fairly decent amount of ISK for the default 40% insurance payout on those ships. Ransoms are accepted in Isk, Ships, Mods, and Dolls. |
Jur Tissant
Hemah Industries
74
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Posted - 2014.05.29 22:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kicks and giggles.
If you assign your medical facility to where you want to go, you can self-destruct your pod and avoid all the jumps. |
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Dominus Tempus
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
68
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Posted - 2014.05.29 22:38:00 -
[51] - Quote
La'Krul wrote:Simply put, it prevents griefing by players holding another player tackled for hours on end. Best answer so far ^
It's a mechanic that's needed in my opinion, otherwise you could essentially abduct people.
No - we don't need abductions implemented in Eve, although I'd love to scoop someone's pod into my cargo against their will. |
Alexa Coates
Federation Navy Assembly Group LLC
722
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Posted - 2014.05.30 00:48:00 -
[52] - Quote
i just wish the self destruct button was behind 10 or 20 drop-downs, because i've almost clicked that ****** soooo many times. That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers. |
Dominus Tempus
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
69
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Posted - 2014.05.30 01:31:00 -
[53] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:i just wish the self destruct button was behind 10 or 20 drop-downs, because i've almost clicked that ****** soooo many times.
If you click it a second time it cancels the self-destruct. There's literally no way to blow yourself up by accident unless you manage to activate self-destruct with a logout timer and your client crashes. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
343
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Posted - 2014.05.30 02:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
Nakami Saans wrote:I've always felt that a self destruct feature should be a last resort option. You know you have no way out so instead of giving the aggressors the satisfaction of getting a kill and loot you self destruct. I also think a self destruct should send out a wave of destruction damaging anything in its radius, with damage varying depending on the size of the ship. This way you don't have a bunch of suicide Ibis' running into a fight. I also think you should be able to control the timer. Too much can happen in two minutes.
As it stands now, the self destruct feature is almost useless.
if it does 1 damage the aoe effect is meaningless lag, if it does 2 damage it is overpowered and a viable combat tactic. Ship destruction aoe damage will NEVER be implemented. It is pointless, pointless, pointless. |
Dominus Tempus
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
69
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Posted - 2014.05.30 02:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:I appear to be the only one to use self destruct to indicate boredom during structure bashing ops.
Most definitely not. There's that + warp disrupting/scrambling SBUs etc...
Anything to get a reaction on coms and help pass the time. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
514
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Posted - 2014.05.30 02:23:00 -
[56] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote: Really? I didn't realise in real life when a ship was scuttled it atomised so there was no potential for a wreck to salvage. You learn something new every day.
Oooor, scuttling a ship merely makes it impossible to be stolen or captured intact (and in truth, is no different to it just being blown the crap up), and in this case it does the exact same in EvE.
Scuttle in deep water and the difference is academic. And, point, if you set a big enough bang off while scuttling, you do get a nice AoE in real life. Magazine explosions are a *****. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
4638
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Posted - 2014.05.30 08:24:00 -
[57] - Quote
Christopher AET wrote:I think the change to allow killmails when self destructing is right. I still think it should destroy all loot if you do it though. Like a last middle finger before you pop.
A proper middle finger would be to deny a kill
If you can't kill a scrammed ship within two minutes, its not really a hit, is it? "A naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares "As Ramona previously mentioned, that is correct." --áISD Supogo |
Snakebyte Jack
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
37
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Posted - 2014.05.31 06:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
La'Krul wrote:Simply put, it prevents griefing by players holding another player tackled for hours on end.
lmao, " It puts the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again".
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Chick Sauce
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 10:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
So many likes to be handed out in this thread... |
Oxide Ammar
133
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Posted - 2014.05.31 11:10:00 -
[60] - Quote
Grunanca wrote:Crazy Dave wrote:I am told eve was designed to mimic the real world as much as possible in most aspects of the game. So in the real world, self destructing your ship ( or scuttling as its called in the Naval parlance) should render your ship and everything on it completely useless to any aggressors.
Is this true in eve? or is it just basically a use less option that does nothing but end a fight allowing the aggressors to take still be able to use any survivable equipment? GM or DEV input appreciated. Thanks! Put cyno in safespot and start selfdestruct. 5 seconds before your ship explodes, light cyno and jump in titan. Hopefully cyno dies before anyone warps to it and your titan can cloak in safety. That is what self destruct is for along with moving cyno alts.
Here is an interesting question, won't be your titan (any ship actually) able to cloak instantly due to the wrecks of the cyno alt ? Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing. |
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