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Derek McLean
Audax Incipio
0
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Posted - 2014.05.27 20:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm relatively new at trading, but I've taken the last month and a half to plan and study where I want to base out of. I have recently decided on a slow moving/high margin system and a fast moving/low margin system. I just have a few questions, perhaps not all can be answered without giving away trade tips. In that case, no problem.
- Do you typically have items shipped from major hubs to another, higher profit hub? Or do most traders suffer through buy orders and it's fees to make the most profit? Or a balance of both?
- If you theoretically had ~4b ISK, how much gets invested in buy/sell orders? All of it? I keep hearing that liquid isk is wasted isk, is that fairly accurate?
- How many orders/items do you typically handle at one time? Is 12-18 orders of ~14 separate items a solid spread?
And finally
- What sort of profit should a decent trader (not elite) expect per week given all the above? Roughly 2b invested in actual items, another 2b in liquid isk. No buy orders currently, 12-18 sell orders for various items.
Side thought: I feel incredibly sloppy with my orders. I feel like I am watching isk fall through the cracks on taxes and fees, then putting up orders and paying more fees, then lowing my prices slightly to beat competitors. I feel like I'm barely making a profit at the moment.
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Paul VonBel
VonBel
4
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Posted - 2014.05.27 21:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Derek McLean wrote:I'm relatively new at trading, but I've taken the last month and a half to plan and study where I want to base out of. I have recently decided on a slow moving/high margin system and a fast moving/low margin system. I just have a few questions, perhaps not all can be answered without giving away trade tips. In that case, no problem.
- Do you typically have items shipped from major hubs to another, higher profit hub? Or do most traders suffer through buy orders and it's fees to make the most profit? Or a balance of both?
- If you theoretically had ~4b ISK, how much gets invested in buy/sell orders? All of it? I keep hearing that liquid isk is wasted isk, is that fairly accurate?
- How many orders/items do you typically handle at one time? Is 12-18 orders of ~14 separate items a solid spread?
And finally
- What sort of profit should a decent trader (not elite) expect per week given all the above? Roughly 2b invested in actual items, another 2b in liquid isk. No buy orders currently, 12-18 sell orders for various items.
Side thought: I feel incredibly sloppy with my orders. I feel like I am watching isk fall through the cracks on taxes and fees, then putting up orders and paying more fees, then lowing my prices slightly to beat competitors. I feel like I'm barely making a profit at the moment.
Firstly, train your trading skills -- accounting, broker relations, retail and trade (for lower taxes and greater buy/sell orders) and probably most importantly, train margin trading
It's all good and well having all the ISK on earth but if you have it all wrapped up in 5 buy orders that don't shift often then it's wasted time.
Margin trading will allow you to "spread" your investment -- instead of putting 2bn into say 5 items and having your 2bn disappear and you just sit tight, it enables you to spread that 2bn over, say, 20 or 30 items that would offer the same profit - thus maximising your chances of actually buying something and making a profit.
Can't stress that enough. This will mean your liquid ISK won't really be dead, so long as it's covering your excess required after escrow.
Secondly, your questions re how many orders we have / how much ISK in buy/sell changes every day. IF everyone fills my buy orders, then I have zero orders!! But I may still have 10 or 50 sell orders.
Station trading is boring but profitable. You'll spend a lot of time upping your orders by .01 ISK. Region trading is more exciting, or as exciting as spending 6- minutes in a providence jumping through a dozen gates can be...
Personally I prefer just trading off the margin in Jita (buying and immediately selling for 5% profit or so) as this is reasonably fast paced and more exciting.
Profit wise for a decent trader - I think most would like to think they could make at least 30-50% actively per month (and by that I mean the ability to immediately liquide all stock on the 30th day if needbe and it would be 30-50% more ISK than what they had on the 1st of the month.
Personally I settle for 10-20% weekly of what I invest - not necessarily all my ISK - as this would be well in excess of the rate of inflation.
Would advise a cheeky buy order of tritanium before bed at what appears to be low (in Jita that's about 5.8x right now) and then when I waken up in the morning sell for what seems "reasonably high" (say around 6.2x right now) for 6.9% profit just for going to sleep....
If you want to chat and speak to likemindeds in game, join my channel VonBel Trading - hope to see you there.
Also, some essential reading...
Oh, and when you get mega rich, you can begin to seed your own trade hubs around the EvE world. That's good and right now I'm turning about 30-40% profit on Amarr prices.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Market_(Useful_threads) |
HeXxploiT
Rhongomiant Legion Industries The Explicit Alliance
29
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Posted - 2014.05.28 03:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Know your market. As a trader the more you can build an intimate relationship with your product the more you will make money.
Train your skills.
Purge yourself of all emotion where trades are concerned. Make a decision and once you have made it stick to the plan. Emotion interferes with logic especially when big isk is involved.
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Companion Qube
Positive Cashflow through Positive Thinking
116
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Posted - 2014.05.28 05:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Buy High, Sell Low. |
Luthias Austrene
Drone Orphanage Ethical Carnage
1
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Posted - 2014.05.28 10:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Companion Qube wrote:Buy High, Sell Low.
I just tried this and lost all my ISK!
Can you please elaborate so this doesn't happen again? |
Governor McMorris
McMorris Inc. McMorris and Associates
17
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Posted - 2014.05.28 10:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Luthias Austrene wrote:Companion Qube wrote:Buy High, Sell Low. I just tried this and lost all my ISK! Can you please elaborate so this doesn't happen again?
Beware of the taxes. |
Splodger
0utbreak Outbreak.
28
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Posted - 2014.05.28 12:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Derek McLean wrote:I'm relatively new at trading, but I've taken the last month and a half to plan and study where I want to base out of. I have recently decided on a slow moving/high margin system and a fast moving/low margin system. I just have a few questions, perhaps not all can be answered without giving away trade tips. In that case, no problem.
- Do you typically have items shipped from major hubs to another, higher profit hub? Or do most traders suffer through buy orders and it's fees to make the most profit? Or a balance of both?
- If you theoretically had ~4b ISK, how much gets invested in buy/sell orders? All of it? I keep hearing that liquid isk is wasted isk, is that fairly accurate?
- How many orders/items do you typically handle at one time? Is 12-18 orders of ~14 separate items a solid spread?
And finally
- What sort of profit should a decent trader (not elite) expect per week given all the above? Roughly 2b invested in actual items, another 2b in liquid isk. No buy orders currently, 12-18 sell orders for various items.
Side thought: I feel incredibly sloppy with my orders. I feel like I am watching isk fall through the cracks on taxes and fees, then putting up orders and paying more fees, then lowing my prices slightly to beat competitors. I feel like I'm barely making a profit at the moment.
I started trading fairly recently - so take all of this with a pinch of salt. I trade on a daily basis at the moment so I only put up orders that will sell in a 2 days max with minimum updates to orders. The aim is fast volume movement with very liquid ISK.
1) I ship all my items from Jita to my sales hub now. - I tried station trading but it isn't my thing 1) Lack of stock vs Demand 2) I really prefer to easy way and prefer not to update a million orders all the time. If I can halve that , its a bonus.
2) I probably have 50/50 ratio - again laziness. I take enjoyment out of the process instead of being 100% committed obviously profits might suffer.
3) Around 50 orders all unique items - multiple orders for items is useful if your forcing someone out etc, I don't bother.
4) I aim for a minimum of 7% - 5% profit and 2% taxes. Anything higher is a bonus. The aim starting out is to make sure you dont trade and lose money by selling under your "taxes".
For your side note - Treat taxes and fees as "Cost of business" see my number 4, you have to pay them to play, so just include them in your calculations and forget about them and start focusing on finding higher profit margin items etc.
*tax percentages are my sales and broker fees rounded up. |
Alex555
CHaoS Heavy Industries
0
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Posted - 2014.05.28 12:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
nice topic. try to use search option and you will discover thousands of the same problems in eve database. that was instead of introduction :)
as for the advice: 1. only trade in major hubs. i would narrow the list just to Jita 4-4. That's enough. 2. trade big numbers. things like ferrogel, dysprosium, etc are bought and sold in huge amounts daily. Perhaps margins are not that big, but the volatility is great. additionally you always can liquidate your stock in case of unpredicted shift of the market in no time and with a minimum loss. 3. do not forget to maximize your market skills. no need to pay more tax if you can pay less. |
Hans Tesla
RigWerks Incorporated
46
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Posted - 2014.05.28 15:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Use third-party tools to help you out if you are interested in Region trading, but don't believe that they are incorruptible. False Buy and Sell orders can be inserted into some of the databases like EVE Central which can trip you up if you're too greedy/reckless.
Source: Hans Tesla is too greedy and reckless. Head Rigger In Charge |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
407
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Posted - 2014.05.28 15:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
My 0.02
- Do you typically have items shipped from major hubs to another, higher profit hub? I buy in Jita with buy orders and sell in minor hubs with sell orders.
- If you theoretically had ~4b ISK, how much gets invested in buy/sell orders? All of it? I keep hearing that liquid isk is wasted isk, is that fairly accurate? Since I also haul my own stuff (it's small stuff), the higher my stock the less often I have to haul. So since I'm lazy I invest all the cash I don't need in stock. I'd also invest in expanding the range of products I sell and the number of stations I sell them in, if I weren't lazy.
- How many orders/items do you typically handle at one time? Is 12-18 orders of ~14 separate items a solid spread? About 25 items, each bought in Jita and sold in 5 systems.
And finally
- What sort of profit should a decent trader (not elite) expect per week given all the above? Roughly 2b invested in actual items, another 2b in liquid isk. No buy orders currently, 12-18 sell orders for various items.
I have no idea if I'm a good or bad trader. I personally have 3 weeks stock on average (including sell orders) and make 30% ROS. Applied to 2b invested that would make 2b / 3 * 30% = 200 Mil / week. |
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voetius
BITB Support Services
226
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Posted - 2014.05.28 17:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Luthias Austrene wrote:Companion Qube wrote:Buy High, Sell Low. I just tried this and lost all my ISK! Can you please elaborate so this doesn't happen again?
To give you an example with unrealistic figures to illustrate the point. Say other people are buying at 1.0m and selling at 2.0m, so there is a potential 1 mill profit disregarding fees.
I would buy at 1.25m and sell at 1.75 so chopping the profit in half but discouraging other traders from playing 0.01 games and maybe forcing them out of the market.
This is what I mean when I say buy high and sell low. It's possible that there are other ways to intepret it that I am not aware of.
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Derek McLean
Audax Incipio
1
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Posted - 2014.05.28 21:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Is this normal? I feel like I'm losing ISK. I'm not sure if that's the case, but It sure feels like it.
I'm using EvE Mogul, which says I am +85m this week.
I have my main character purchasing about 300m worth of items at a time, then shipping them to Derek who then puts up the orders and sells them.
How do you keep track of profits between two characters? Especially with taxes and shipping fees and all sorts of insane things? I am trying to keep a log on paper, but I am failing quickly. I'm assuming EvE Mogul does this for me (as I have both characters funneling API information through one account) but I don't feel like it's right. |
Derek McLean
Audax Incipio
1
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Posted - 2014.05.28 21:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thank you guys for all the help thus far, it's been really insightful! I don't feel like a "successful" trader yet. I'll definitely join your channel Paul, thanks for the tips.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
409
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Posted - 2014.05.28 21:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Derek McLean wrote:How do you keep track of profits between two characters? Especially with taxes and shipping fees and all sorts of insane things? I am trying to keep a log on paper, but I am failing quickly. I'm assuming EvE Mogul does this for me (as I have both characters funneling API information through one account) but I don't feel like it's right. I make my own spreadsheets.
Buy cost: updated manually (I don't care if it's not precise).
Sell price and quantity, stock levels: manually copypasted (it takes less than a minute if you're quick).
Taxes: I just ignore :)
This obviously only works because my business is small, items rarely change and my profits are 15-80% per item.
I also use jEveAssets twice a week to double-check that I'm actually making the money that I think I'm making. |
Felicity Love
It Was the Year 3030
1839
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Posted - 2014.05.30 08:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
By far, and people will debate this to Hell and back, is read your DEV BLOGS.
It's not about profit, it's about being the guy in the right place with the right commodity when the market goes in a new direction.
Good luck.
"HTFU ! " -á--- -áKatee Sackhoff, aka "The F-Bomb Queen of EVE" ! !-á
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Bayonnefrog
Hedion University Amarr Empire
25
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Posted - 2014.05.30 15:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ignore dev blogs. I never speculate. Your profits come from the delta or the difference in the buy/sell spread. Eve markets are highly inefficient. There are arbitrage opportunities on almost every item. And never underestimate the laze of Eve pilots. |
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