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KILLSNIPER
Babylon Knights The Unthinkables
0
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Posted - 2014.05.30 00:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
English is not my main language.
If i'm right, when a player lost connection to the game, modules shut down, drones are scooped into ship, and the ship warp out far away. The Bastion module is currently intended to continue cycling even after a disconnection. This will prevent your vessel from emergency warping to safety. Why it doesn't stop at the disconnection? To avoid abusive uses to end the bastion mode before the 1min couldown.
But when a player lost his connection during an exploration site (or any other situation) and had his bastion module active, even without being scrambled, the ship will probably be destroyed easely by NPC
So here is a suggestion: when a player loses his connection while beeing in bastion mode, set all modules ON (except propulsion module) and when bastion cycle ends, do as usual (all modules OFF and warp out). The same thing can be applied to the siege module and triage module.
This suggestion is to make working the emergency warping in any situation in a fair way.
If you agree or don't agree, say why. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
704
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Posted - 2014.05.30 00:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah this is annoying and doesn't make much sense. +1 |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
296
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Posted - 2014.05.30 01:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's been brought up several times before, even before day 1 with the bastion module. As you noted, the Marauder class is not the only ship class that has this issue with regards to the "e-warping" mechanic (and there are good reasons why). That said, and considering this issue can be caused by a technical problem, I'm sure other players wouldn't be against reworking the mechanic to allow Marauders to e-warp at the end of cycle as long as and only if other ships (carriers, dreads, cyno boats, etc.) that are in the same "boat" are permitted to e-warp as well.
In short, I'd be fine with e-warps for Marauders, but it has to be done the right way and include all other ships with a similar issue with e-warping. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6580
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Posted - 2014.05.30 01:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
If they did that, it could (and almost certainly would) be abused.
Notably their immunity to most forms of ewar. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
704
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Posted - 2014.05.30 01:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:If they did that, it could (and almost certainly would) be abused.
Notably their immunity to most forms of ewar. How? For marauders and capitals there is a pretty big align time that provides plenty of time to re tackle from rats and players. The biggest problem is that my catgut could technically be in space until downtime because of Aggro and a single rat. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1186
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Posted - 2014.05.30 01:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:If they did that, it could (and almost certainly would) be abused.
Notably their immunity to most forms of ewar. Bastion deactivating is visible and I would think should allow an attacker time to point the target before they align since they should need to accelerate from a stop in a BS.
It seems to me less abusive than a normal e-warp since you have a tell by both the ships movement and bastion animation when the target is pointable. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.05.30 02:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:If they did that, it could (and almost certainly would) be abused.
Notably their immunity to most forms of ewar. It would only be abused if someone didn't make the obvious fixes to prevent abuse. Because its a very simple mechanic. That requires a very simple change. |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1289
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Posted - 2014.05.30 02:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection. If for some reason there is a chance a roving band of individuals with questionable background should by happenstance cause a minor fault in your internet connection, thereby causing you to disconnect in a ship incapable of E-Warp, then you should prolly not fly that ship, or any PvE or PvP ship, since obviously you might disconnect. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
704
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 02:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection. If for some reason there is a chance a roving band of individuals with questionable background should by happenstance cause a minor fault in your internet connection, thereby causing you to disconnect in a ship incapable of E-Warp, then you should prolly not fly that ship, or any PvE or PvP ship, since obviously you might disconnect. Why should any ship not have a working ewarp function? It's unnecessary to have it work this way. If I lose my ship in a fight because of disconnect I'm not gonna cry about it (maybe a little, in the inside) but having my ship stay in space indefinitely because if counteracting mechanics is not how it should work. |
KILLSNIPER
Babylon Knights The Unthinkables
1
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Posted - 2014.05.30 03:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:Quote:Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection. If for some reason there is a chance a roving band of individuals with questionable background should by happenstance cause a minor fault in your internet connection, thereby causing you to disconnect in a ship incapable of E-Warp, then you should prolly not fly that ship, or any PvE or PvP ship, since obviously you might disconnect. Why should any ship not have a working ewarp function? It's unnecessary to have it work this way. If I lose my ship in a fight because of disconnect I'm not gonna cry about it (maybe a little, in the inside) but having my ship stay in space indefinitely because if counteracting mechanics is not how it should work.
And if the problem can be resolved, let's do it. At the moment i don't see any disadvantage, it's only positive. There is many things that generate this issue: graphic bugs, power cuts, client bug (which need a restart), etc. Neglect people having these issues isn't a solution. |
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Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1289
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 04:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection. If for some reason there is a chance a roving band of individuals with questionable background should by happenstance cause a minor fault in your internet connection, thereby causing you to disconnect in a ship incapable of E-Warp, then you should prolly not fly that ship, or any PvE or PvP ship, since obviously you might disconnect. Why should any ship not have a working ewarp function? It's unnecessary to have it work this way. If I lose my ship in a fight because of disconnect I'm not gonna cry about it (maybe a little, in the inside) but having my ship stay in space indefinitely because if counteracting mechanics is not how it should work. Im not saying I necessarily agree with how it is, hell, I love bastion. Its just that with the current trend of CCP decisions, theyll just say "you knew the risks" to avoid putting development time on it |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
388
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 05:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection.
Link to this statment or GTFO! Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
249
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Posted - 2014.05.30 05:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:If they did that, it could (and almost certainly would) be abused.
Notably their immunity to most forms of ewar. It's not like you will end cycle and go straight into warp. We're not talking about ending the cycle early and e-warping the ship, we're talking about turning the module red when the pilot disconnects and having the ship e-warp when the cycle ends. The ship would still have to align and get up to speed just like always. Bastion/Siege/Triage only make you e-war immune while they are active. As soon as you see the ship starting to move you know it is not e-war immune anymore, point it for exactly the same effect a point has on any ship.
In no case can you prevent a HIC super point either just in case you're not confident in your ability to tackle a battleship or cap you have pre-locked before it can finish and entire alignment.
You CAN order your ship to warp while you are in bastion/siege/triage, not that it will stop your ship from telling you exactly where to shove that order.
I struggle to see how you could abuse this. Your aggression flaggings would prevent your ship from disappearing while tackled, has been this way since Crucible. Online or offline the time it would take to warp any ship coming out of an e-war immune mode is identical. |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1289
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 06:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection. Link to this statment or GTFO! I(t was by I think Falcon in one of the longer threadnaughts about the T2 BPO possible removal hoozit. |
Ellendras Silver
My second corp
136
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Posted - 2014.05.30 06:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Yeah this is annoying and doesn't make much sense. +1
no it makes perfectly sense, and this is not the first thread about it. If they would make it so as OP wants and e-warp the ship despite that its in bastion mode, people can unplug the network cable on their PC when a hostile comes in system and that way escape from combat while they cant warp because of the bastion mode.
not being able to warp off is a trade off for very high bonus that the bastion module provides, it should NOT be overruled by a DC this problem isnt new carriers in triage, dreads in siege, titans after using doomsday rorqual in industry mode and every ship with a cyno has the same issue.
once again it is a TRADE OFF for provided bonuses Carpe noctem |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
704
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 06:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:Rowells wrote:Yeah this is annoying and doesn't make much sense. +1 no it makes perfectly sense, and this is not the first thread about it. If they would make it so as OP wants and e-warp the ship despite that its in bastion mode, people can unplug the network cable on their PC when a hostile comes in system and that way escape from combat while they cant warp because of the bastion mode. not being able to warp off is a trade off for very high bonus that the bastion module provides, it should NOT be overruled by a DC this problem isnt new carriers in triage, dreads in siege, titans after using doomsday rorqual in industry mode and every ship with a cyno has the same issue. once again it is a TRADE OFF for provided bonuses
Quote:when bastion cycle ends, do as usual (all modules OFF and warp out). The bastion would finish cycle then attempt E-warp. Rather than currently when it attempts ewarp in bation, fails, and sits there forever afterwards.
And i would go as far as to extend this to other ships as well. I see no reason why using these modules means they can't attempt to warp normally afterwards. |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
731
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 12:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
+1 I see no compelling reason that ships shouldn't ewarp at the end of the bastion cycle (not during the middle of it). |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2270
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 13:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Getting to the mechanics themselves, don't the modules finish their cycle, and then shut off? One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Ellendras Silver
My second corp
137
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Posted - 2014.05.30 13:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote:Rowells wrote:Yeah this is annoying and doesn't make much sense. +1 no it makes perfectly sense, and this is not the first thread about it. If they would make it so as OP wants and e-warp the ship despite that its in bastion mode, people can unplug the network cable on their PC when a hostile comes in system and that way escape from combat while they cant warp because of the bastion mode. not being able to warp off is a trade off for very high bonus that the bastion module provides, it should NOT be overruled by a DC this problem isnt new carriers in triage, dreads in siege, titans after using doomsday rorqual in industry mode and every ship with a cyno has the same issue. once again it is a TRADE OFF for provided bonuses Quote:when bastion cycle ends, do as usual (all modules OFF and warp out). The bastion would finish cycle then attempt E-warp. Rather than currently when it attempts ewarp in bation, fails, and sits there forever afterwards. And i would go as far as to extend this to other ships as well. I see no reason why using these modules means they can't attempt to warp normally afterwards.
E-warp is simple it does an attempt to warp off when disconnected, if it cant warp it won`t make a second attempt that is how it works. this rule is how it works and every ship that can be prevented from warp suffers from this. My point stands and remains valid.
I do have a solution though, fly another ship or a marauder without bastion module. there solved. Carpe noctem |
Ellendras Silver
My second corp
137
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 13:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Getting to the mechanics themselves, don't the modules finish their cycle, and then shut off?
yes, but then the E-warp is over so it wont make another attempt as it already tried to warp and failed to do so. Carpe noctem |
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Thercon Jair
Nex Exercitus Northern Coalition.
4
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Posted - 2014.05.30 14:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't see how it's possible to abuse such a mechanic. The ship would attempt to warp after the current cycle ends. Gosh, need to get a point on it or have it bubbled.
Log off/disco, bastion/triage/siege/cyno finishes cycle, ship attempts e-warp.
Also, every dread/carrier/cyno pilot worth their salt keeps their stront/LO in half-stacks anyways. So those modules can be made to shut off after the cycle ends. |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
127
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 14:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
I could be wrong here, but im pretty sure this is no longer an issue.
I in a mission with a buddy the other day he was bastioned and got dc'd. His ship was in the mission room for awhile, i heard the bastion noise, and a few seconds later, he warped off.
I've also noticed now that you can ever so slightly align while bastion is active.
I believe this issue was resolved by allowing for very, very slow movement, like 0.1 m/s while bastioned. You disconnect, the ship starts E-Warp, bastion stops after it's cycle is complete, and the ship begins to gain enough speed to enter warp |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
704
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 14:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:E-warp is simple it does an attempt to warp off when disconnected, if it cant warp it won`t make a second attempt that is how it works. this rule is how it works and every ship that can be prevented from warp suffers from this. My point stands and remains valid.
I do have a solution though, fly another ship or a marauder without bastion module. there solved. Yes, thank you for explaining how E-warp works. Thats the whole point of this thread, to change the mechanic to something more logical. The reasoning "thats how it works" is a terrible argument for allowing this kind of mechanic to remain in place. If I applied the same kind of thinking to the old log-off mechanics, then we would be back to a game where you could safely log anything off so long as there wasn't enough DPS to kill you, because "that's how it works". So I could just log off my ratting carrier when it gets tackled by a small gang and safely disappear. Or I could fit an MWD to my nano BS and reach insane speeds beyond what frigates can reach. "
that's how it works" doesn't hold water when we try to use it anywhere, now does it?If we applied the thinking "thats how it works" to more things in eve, nothing would ever get fixed because "that's how it works".
That mechanic was changed because it didn't make sense. It also doesn't make sense that under normal circumstances my ship could remain in space until downtime when in any other scenario it would have warped and disappeared. |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2271
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 14:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
ah hah ... too early in the morning -- thought the OP was asking to insta-kill bastion or something ...
Not being a user of bastion mode (and having not **** internet), I can't say if this is a good or bad thing offhand, though it seems that it could probably "break" something if it was put in. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
152
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 14:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote:I could be wrong here, but im pretty sure this is no longer an issue.
I in a mission with a buddy the other day he was bastioned and got dc'd. His ship was in the mission room for awhile, i heard the bastion noise, and a few seconds later, he warped off.
I've also noticed now that you can ever so slightly align while bastion is active.
I believe this issue was resolved by allowing for very, very slow movement, like 0.1 m/s while bastioned. You disconnect, the ship starts E-Warp, bastion stops after it's cycle is complete, and the ship begins to gain enough speed to enter warp
I'm fairly sure it hasn't been. I lost a Vargur from a power outage a few weeks ago. (Thunderstorm.) I managed to get my computer back on & connect to EVE just in time to see it explode. No scramming ships in the mission, so I definitely wasn't scrammed.
Honestly, I'm not really bothered with the current mechanic. (I knew the risk, and when I heard the thunder thought about switching to my Mach, next time I will. ) I certainly wouldn't complain if they changed it to e-warp at the end of a cycle, though.
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chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
127
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 14:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:chaosgrimm wrote:I could be wrong here, but im pretty sure this is no longer an issue.
I in a mission with a buddy the other day he was bastioned and got dc'd. His ship was in the mission room for awhile, i heard the bastion noise, and a few seconds later, he warped off.
I've also noticed now that you can ever so slightly align while bastion is active.
I believe this issue was resolved by allowing for very, very slow movement, like 0.1 m/s while bastioned. You disconnect, the ship starts E-Warp, bastion stops after it's cycle is complete, and the ship begins to gain enough speed to enter warp I'm fairly sure it hasn't been. I lost a Vargur from a power outage a few weeks ago. (Thunderstorm.) I managed to get my computer back on & connect to EVE just in time to see it explode. No scramming ships in the mission, so I definitely wasn't scrammed. Honestly, I'm not really bothered with the current mechanic. (I knew the risk, and when I heard the thunder thought about switching to my Mach, next time I will. ) I certainly wouldn't complain if they changed it to e-warp at the end of a cycle, though. hmmm.. i will test. will report in a few |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
127
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 14:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote:Cassandra Aurilien wrote:chaosgrimm wrote:I could be wrong here, but im pretty sure this is no longer an issue.
I in a mission with a buddy the other day he was bastioned and got dc'd. His ship was in the mission room for awhile, i heard the bastion noise, and a few seconds later, he warped off.
I've also noticed now that you can ever so slightly align while bastion is active.
I believe this issue was resolved by allowing for very, very slow movement, like 0.1 m/s while bastioned. You disconnect, the ship starts E-Warp, bastion stops after it's cycle is complete, and the ship begins to gain enough speed to enter warp I'm fairly sure it hasn't been. I lost a Vargur from a power outage a few weeks ago. (Thunderstorm.) I managed to get my computer back on & connect to EVE just in time to see it explode. No scramming ships in the mission, so I definitely wasn't scrammed. Honestly, I'm not really bothered with the current mechanic. (I knew the risk, and when I heard the thunder thought about switching to my Mach, next time I will. ) I certainly wouldn't complain if they changed it to e-warp at the end of a cycle, though. hmmm.. i will test. will report in a few
just tested on my paladin. I warped 100km from a planet, activated bastion, and stopped eve via the task manager. I let 90 seconds pass and logged in. My ship had E-warped and automatically started warping back to my original spot when i logged in. e-warp appears to be working |
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
152
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 14:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote: just tested on my paladin. I warped 100km from a planet, activated bastion, and stopped eve via the task manager. I let 90 seconds pass and logged in. My ship had E-warped and automatically started warping back to my original spot when i logged in. e-warp appears to be working
Sweet. Out of curiosity, did you have Bastion on auto-repeat? If not, that might be the difference.
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chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
128
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Posted - 2014.05.30 14:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:chaosgrimm wrote: just tested on my paladin. I warped 100km from a planet, activated bastion, and stopped eve via the task manager. I let 90 seconds pass and logged in. My ship had E-warped and automatically started warping back to my original spot when i logged in. e-warp appears to be working
Sweet. Out of curiosity, did you have Bastion on auto-repeat? If not, that might be the difference.
auto-repeat was active |
Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
288
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 14:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
Right click --> Set Auto Repeat OFF
Now every Cycle is manually, just as any good Marauder Pilot would probably want it anyways.
Edit:
Towards the ewarp above me, did you have an agression timer? If not, 30 seconds, and your ship is gone. |
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