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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5691
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Posted - 2014.05.30 16:14:00 -
[61] - Quote
Well said.
Everything is subject to change.
People that base their training plans on what "might" come to be are taking a gamble with their own time. Even if half of these changes are reverted a week after the expansion comes out, that was your choice.
Frankly CCP isn't under any obligation to give people any kind of advanced notice, and many game companies opt not to primarily because whatever they say will be taken as gospel despite definitive statements that everything is subject to change. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Jade Ash
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.30 17:15:00 -
[62] - Quote
So, I'm an alt. [Hi alt!] My attributes are set for Int/Mem, so training Drones isn't ideal but also isn't terrible. Prior to the announcement, I trained all drones skills to whatever level I could get to without spending more than one day on any one skill (except Drones, which I had to train to V to get some of the other skills). This left me with SDO IV and CDO III. When I heard about the skill split, I debated whether to train CDO from III to V. Ultimately, I compromised and trained to CDO IV. As June 3 approached, however, I struggled with whether to go CDO V. I went back and checked the dev blog again because I wanted to be certain they had not added SDO as an alternative to CDO (because SDO in fact makes sense for this split). In other words, I actually thought to look at this. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of thinking the dev blog would be updated with any changes that resulted from ongoing thinking and discussion in the thread, because (1) my prior experience in reading dev threads, like the multi-pager on industrials last summer, involved threads where every change announced in the thread was incorporated back into the original post; and (2) it just makes sense to update the original post when individual changes are otherwise scattered throughout individual posts. To be clear, this was my mistake given the buyer-beware nature of Eve.
That said, while I own my mistake, I'm more than a little irritated with CCP's approach to this issue from a player-experience standpoint. For those who say people haven't lost anything, that's just not true. The only reason I trained CDO V was to get the split; I was not otherwise going to do it. Had I done independent research beyond the dev post (whether via Google or picking through the individual comments) and learned that CDO was going away and that SDO would be the only skill that actually mattered, I obviously would have trained SDO (1x and surviving) instead of CDO (2x and going away), as would any other sane and rational person. CCP and others can spin it, but the fact is CCP encouraged players to train a 2x skill that it then decided to make irrelevant by tying the two new skills to a 1x skill that was going to survive the update. Likewise, you can say I got what I bargained for (CDO V will in fact turn into LDO V and MDO V), but that doesn't make it true: I trained a 2x skill that was the door to LDO V and MDO V, not a door to LDO V and MDO V that another, cheaper skill that will actually survive the update (i.e., remain independent relevant) also led to at less cost.
I know CCP is not going to give players anything for this, and that's their call. But for a company that claims it wants to make the game more accessible to new players, this kind of you-better-read-every-post-and-be-prepared-to-learn-lessons-the-hard-way (which, let's be honest, is at the heart of Eve) is going to present a challenge. And maybe that's for the best; maybe Eve should be limited to those that think anyone frustrated by this situation is just a "whiner." I don't know, and fortunately, it's not my call to make.
Anyway, thanks for listening to (or skimming over, whatever) the rant. It feels good to put the frustration into words, even if it isn't goin to change anything. Also, if you think I'm wrong, I acknowledge in advance that you might be right.
Edit: Ranger 1 wrote:Frankly CCP isn't under any obligation to give people any kind of advanced notice, and many game companies opt not to primarily because whatever they say will be taken as gospel despite definitive statements that everything is subject to change. Agreed, but I don't think that's the issue here. The issue here is whether CCP has an obligation to correct something it has said, once it has decided to say it. If CCP had said nothing, I'm certain there would have been plenty of people griping about their silence, but I wouldn't be one of them. (Probably not anyway.) |
JC Anderson
State Protectorate Caldari State
1107
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 17:24:00 -
[63] - Quote
Actually, that was my understanding the entire time, so I must have missed the original post you are quoting. So they did inform us fairly early on in this case.
Though I already had pretty much all of the drone skills trained to 5 before this so it hasn't been much of an issue for me. I guess I can somewhat understand peoples concern that are rushing to train the skills before the patch. But then again, they let us know fairly early. I am assuming some people missed the updated info? |
Jade Ash
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.30 17:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
I did at least. If I understand correctly, the comments to the dev post mentioned the change a few days after the post went up, but the original dev post was never updated. (I'm fairly certain on that last part, given I checked it about a week ago, right before training CDO V.) In other words: read the posts to the dev post and do not assume the original post will be updated (even if it sometimes is). |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
847
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Posted - 2014.05.30 18:05:00 -
[65] - Quote
Look settle it this way Pod yourself until you lose CDO 5 Then you don't have to worry about the lack of reimbursement |
Jade Ash
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.30 18:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
Hmmm. I don't know if making another bad decision is going to make me feel better about my prior bad decision.
PS - Dig the corp name. |
Wylt Echerie
General Bovine Excrement Export
10
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Posted - 2014.05.30 20:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jade Ash wrote:I did at least. If I understand correctly, the comments to the dev post mentioned the change a few days after the post went up, but the original dev post was never updated. (I'm fairly certain on that last part, given I checked it about a week ago, right before training CDO V.) In other words: read the posts to the dev post and do not assume the original post will be updated (even if it sometimes is). Edit: Here's the recently updated post, which now references SDO and notes that it is, as of May 30, fully up to date: We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation. This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill. During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation and/or Scout Drone Operation skills trained will receive both new skills trained to a level equal to the highest level that they have in either Combat Drone Operation or Scout Drone Operation. We initially announced that we would reimburse only from the Combat Drone Operation skill but after recieving some excellent feedback from the community on our forums we decided to reimburse based on the highest of these two skills so that we could ensure that pilots who could use these drones before don't lose any capability after the patch.http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/giving-drones-an-assist/
Incorrect. The dev blog was updated with all the relevant important information. It updated just one short month after those changes were made. What's the problem? |
Jade Ash
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.30 20:33:00 -
[68] - Quote
If it was updated to note SDO a month ago, then the problem is that I missed it (somehow) when I checked the original dev blog post (not the comments though) before training CDO. |
stoicfaux
4908
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 21:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
Look. The system isn't perfect.
The next time you have a question about "doing something" that requires a decision that's going to potentially cause you intense, nerve wracking, buyer's remorse, post your question in the relevant thread. Chances are good that someone will point you to a credible source (e.g. Dev Post) or will tell if you it's all still up in the air.
Even then, it's still a gamble (as all the people who rushed to capitalize on capital rigs discovered when the Freighter and JF rebalance changed from rigs to low slots, or the people who trained High Energy Something for the Marauder Bastion module.)
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Jade Ash
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.30 21:29:00 -
[70] - Quote
Solid advice. Again, I know this ultimately was my mistake; it's just really frustrating. On the plus side, this little snafu has forced me to get a bit more zen about my training efficiency (blowing something like 10 days of training unnecessarily will do that for you). Maybe I'll queue up some Charisma skills just for grins. Thanks again to all for the vent venue. |
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Marsha Mallow
811
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Posted - 2014.05.30 21:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
Sahriah BloodStone wrote:Its not a big deal for me, but i am a little upset that my new player friend has now wasted 4-5days training which to him right now is important because CCP didnt take a second to update the orignal dev post or to post a new article letting us know. They did mess up not updating the blog, least it's been corrected now. I notice in the last few weeks they've been reissuing them with pertinent changes highlighted which is a step in the right direction. To be fair there are a hell of a lot of changes on the table to keep track of, in theory this should be less of a problem going forward with more frequent mini expansion. It's possibe CCP realise they made an error here, it might work out as a positive thing long term.
Whilst the majority of squawkers should probably be ignored, a new player who has lost a significant chunk of training time might be a special case. Get them to petition it and see what the GMs think. If not, and the character is still really young get hold of a cerebral accelerator and try plug the time lost (or ask the GMs nicely for one in the petition :P) TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
201
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Posted - 2014.05.30 21:43:00 -
[72] - Quote
Yea, because we all go through a thread and read every post.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22290
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Posted - 2014.05.30 21:47:00 -
[73] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Yea, because we all go through a thread and read every post. Too bad that this excuse is completely invalidated by the way the forums work.
As has been pointed out on numerous occasions now, you can browse through the dev posts in a thready in less than a minute (-¦slow internet). If you are the kind to want to plan proactively depending on what the devs are saying about future changes, doing so is a very good use of your time.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3681
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Posted - 2014.05.30 22:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Also: if you got combat drone operation V you will get the two new light and medium drone skills at V even without scout drone operation V. Just as mentioned in your quote, btw. But you won't have Drone Avionics V and therefore you'll no longer be able to use T2 Drone Link Augmenters. Drone Avionics isn't required, last I looked on SiSi at least:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4607975#post4607975 |
Sahriah BloodStone
Hunter Killers. Forsaken Asylum
35
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Posted - 2014.05.31 00:59:00 -
[75] - Quote
Wylt Echerie wrote:
Incorrect. The dev blog was updated with all the relevant important information. It updated just one short month after those changes were made. What's the problem?
Quote:We have updated the thread with the latest information, namely changes to the range and tracking of combat drones and changes to the plan for converting skills on patch day. This blog is now fully up to date as of May 30, 2014.
Did you not read that? As of May 30 2014. As in that was not there when i made my post, Garenteed. They actually updated this AFTER i posted and i hope because of this thread.
To bad they didnt do it when they actually decided to make the change, but i guess better late then never
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10171
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Posted - 2014.05.31 07:43:00 -
[76] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Also: if you got combat drone operation V you will get the two new light and medium drone skills at V even without scout drone operation V. Just as mentioned in your quote, btw. But you won't have Drone Avionics V and therefore you'll no longer be able to use T2 Drone Link Augmenters. Drone Avionics isn't required, last I looked on SiSi at least: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4607975#post4607975 The most recent update shows this. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
29
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Posted - 2014.05.31 08:23:00 -
[77] - Quote
The skill conversion as it is now doesn't seem very well thought out, particularly. the fact that there is no reimbursement of SP for redundant skills.
Regardless of what anyone says, many players are and will be upset about this. Simply:
If CDO level >= SDO level, reimburse CDO SP since that training is redundant. Else, reimburse SDO SP because that training is redundant.
Or am I missing something? Is there a reason why CCP isn't doing this? It seems like a better option by a long shot.
Also, some posts here seem to indicate that the following are good precedents to set for EVE Online: 1. Skill training can be completely wasted (i.e. situations exist where it's possible to train a skill and then receive no benefit from the skill at all - everything will be as if you had never trained it). This is good and should not be avoided. 2. Skill training is speculation similar to market trading. There is risk involved when you train a skill, since it may be completely changed or removed from the game tomorrow. This is good and should not be avoided. 3. It should be easy for players to miss important information about the game. This is good and should not be avoided.
Or am I missing something? |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
420
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 09:34:00 -
[78] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:Or am I missing something? Yes, the poor dead horse.
See for yourself: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=343150 |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
167
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 10:04:00 -
[79] - Quote
OP.... Stop Whining...
Is this an AFK Cloaking thread? |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
411
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Posted - 2014.05.31 10:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
Yep. I'm pretty peeved about this myself. I spent 10x days training CDO 5 on 6x accounts - basically flushed 2x plex worth of training time down the drain. |
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Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2014.05.31 10:31:00 -
[81] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:Yep. I'm pretty peeved about this myself. I spent 10x days training CDO 5 on 6x accounts - basically flushed 2x plex worth of training time down the drain. LOL...
Funny stuff....
I mean... Oh, thats rough... |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
19
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Posted - 2014.05.31 11:46:00 -
[82] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:Yep. I'm pretty peeved about this myself. I spent 10x days training CDO 5 on 6x accounts - basically flushed 2x plex worth of training time down the drain.
actions and consequences my friend. Just Add Water |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
707
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 12:19:00 -
[83] - Quote
Entitled little sh*ts. Entitled little sh*ts everywhere. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1346
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Posted - 2014.05.31 12:42:00 -
[84] - Quote
Sahriah BloodStone wrote: I read mittani every day
Just in case your wondering where you went wrong. |
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