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Esna Pitoojee
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
419
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Posted - 2014.05.30 06:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Article
So, apparently they've got the success rate way, way up with this kind of thing, although the process involves electrons "trapped in diamonds at extremely low temperature". Still, one step closer...
RELEVANT EVE LORE FACTOID: Quantum entanglement, used in this 'teleportation', is the way our "fluid router" communications function in EVE lore. This is why - in addition to being instantaneous despite vast stellar distances - it is virtually impossible to 'jam' our communications: The entanglement effectively functions 'around' rather than 'through' the space between two points; any noise between those two points is irrelevant so long as the entangled link holds up. |
Graygor
1kB Realty 1kB Galactic
117192
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Posted - 2014.05.30 06:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Good. Maybe then i wont lag when i play games with my friends online.
Still, this news gives me a massive nerd hard on for all forms of tech. "I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." --áKenneth O'Hara
"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commisar Kate |
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet Market and Contract PVP
863
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Posted - 2014.05.30 18:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
From my experience the overwhelming majority of Teleportation technologies result in radiation so horrible that if something living does make it through it won't last long. The ONLY real way to make the tech work is to use quantum methods of traversal. Even then you are dealing with factors such as temperature change and sever psychological trauma for anybody not specifically conditioned for such a thing.
It should be noted that we have no idea how to condition or prepare somebody for that yet. CSM 9 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1475
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Posted - 2014.05.31 06:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:From my experience the overwhelming majority of Teleportation technologies result in radiation so horrible that if something living does make it through it won't last long. The ONLY real way to make the tech work is to use quantum methods of traversal. Even then you are dealing with factors such as temperature change and sever psychological trauma for anybody not specifically conditioned for such a thing.
It should be noted that we have no idea how to condition or prepare somebody for that yet. Maybe we should work on moving from teleporting leptons to atoms, and eventually molecules, before we start assuming there will be repercussions preventing safe teleportation of living creatures. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2014.05.31 07:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
...and now, a few fugly facts:
- the "outgoing" qubit is destroyed in the process of reading, and so each pair only can be used once - quantum pairs are created together, then they are physically seperated - albeit a qubit haves endless potential states, only one of them can be transmitted at a time (and then the qubit is destroyed) |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1777
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 08:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
I would "entangle" the other part of the space with my own state so I would be in two places in one time, shearing my state with two parts of space, then I would "extangle" the state that is here, and I would leave intact the other state, would it be a teleportation? When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif |
Black Panpher
Ganja Inc
1646
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Posted - 2014.05.31 14:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
First teleportation via carrying atoms over a radio wave, then laser and now diamonds. This all seems pretty primitive to me, I'll wait for wormhole technology.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1981
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Posted - 2014.05.31 15:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Teleporters are fine and dandy in theory, but a replicator has more practical applications and it can pretty much double for a pseudo-teleporter (as far as practical//pragmatic aspects are concerned anyway). http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T Build your own EVE PC http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1559734 |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters Disturbed Acquaintance
8529
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Posted - 2014.05.31 15:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
anyone here that wants to demonstrate teleportation can feel free to teleport some isk into my wallet. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1777
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Posted - 2014.05.31 16:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:anyone here that wants to demonstrate teleportation can feel free to teleport some isk into my wallet.
In virtual reality you can teleport anything anywhere, you are making up the rules, but in real, the rules rule you. Maybe in Matrix we would be able to make and do anything. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1479
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 18:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
If I found out we lived in the Matrix, I would learn how to work the thing and then happily stay inside. After a quick look at what lies on the outside, I have to believe these parasitic robots are pretty benevolent. Guess it's not really parasitism if I'm willing, eh?
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Information send to the other part of space can be send only with a light speed, and the facility to entangle the other me would need less than light speed to move there. But once it had arrived, it could remain in place and perform more entanglements. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1970
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 19:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Can you even entangle particles from a distance? I always thought you have to create them entangled and them move them apart from each other. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1479
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 19:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Can you even entangle particles from a distance? I always thought you have to create them entangled and them move them apart from each other. You might have to operate both ends, but it is this "entanglement" which demonstrates really clearly that things that seem far apart by our observations sometimes or perhaps always are actually in direct contact with each other. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Mizhir
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
62363
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Can you even entangle particles from a distance? I always thought you have to create them entangled and them move them apart from each other.
When I read about this, all I thought about was remote hugs One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1971
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 20:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Can you even entangle particles from a distance? I always thought you have to create them entangled and them move them apart from each other. You might have to operate both ends, but it is this "entanglement" which demonstrates really clearly that things that seem far apart by our observations sometimes or perhaps always are actually in direct contact with each other.
Edit: I forgot to mention: This is a fascinating way to look at entanglement. It never occured to me! /Edit
Well, on that submicroscopic level I already have a hard time grasping what "direct contact" means. I mean, you don't have surfaces touching each other anymore, right? You have waveforms interferring with each other and forces between particles, but I really don't know what "contact" can mean in that context besides "being in close proximity" and maybe "short ranging forces dominate", whatever those forces might be (I'm not really that knowledgable in physics.).
That said, if you can make use of that "direct contact" property to entangle particles with each other which look distant to our observations, then why can't you use that same property to transmit information directly?
But, back to entanglement: It seems I already don't understand something fundamental about entanglement. What I knew as entanglement so far were pairs of particles which are guaranteed to have "opposite" values in a certain property. For example polarization for photons.. or spin of electrons. This manifests when you observe/measure one of the particle pair. In the moment of measurement you collapse the wave function of that particle and it changes from being in a superposition of all possible states to having one definite state, for example "spin up" in the measured direction. With entangled particles that also means that the wave function of the partner particle collapses in the same instant, so that it is assuming the complementary value in that measured property. That doesn't help in transmitting information though, as you can't notice any change without measurement, so you can't magically know that the particle on the other end was measured now.
If you could -change- one of those properties in an entangled particle, so that the partner particle would follow through with the complementary change, that'd be nice for transmitting information, but I didn't know that was possible.
.. what a long post to say "I don't know how it works" .. haha. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1482
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 20:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
I don't know how it works, either.
One helpful tidbit can be to learn to accept that there are no solid surfaces anywhere, only fields of exponentially diminishing potential from an apparent but illusory epicenter. When you touch a "surface", there is a range within which you are able to press--more pressure can put your finger further into the surface. The amount it goes in is just so tiny we cannot come close to perceiving it. But you can play with a much "weaker" repulsive force, that is, a repulsive force that diminishes at a much lower rate with distance from the center. When you press equal poles of two magnets together, they repel each other, and the closer you press them, the stronger the repulsive force becomes. It's the same thing as the surfaces around you, but on a larger scale. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1971
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 20:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yes, that part I get. But I don't understand how you'd define "contact" under those circumstances. :) |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1483
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 21:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
The magnets are always in contact with each other. They are affecting one another. That's what contact is. If I push you or the magnet repels another magnet, it's a very similar effect. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1783
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 21:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quote:what "direct contact" means.
I am thinking about it like it would be one medium that is non uniform in nature. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1971
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 21:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:The magnets are always in contact with each other. They are affecting one another. That's what contact is. If I push you or the magnet repels another magnet, it's a very similar effect.
But if it is "just" that, then you'd have to say that, for example, our milky way and the andromeda galaxis are in contact, too, because they affect each other due to gravity. Maybe an extreme example, but that can't very well be the sort of contact you meant with regards to entanglement. Because, going back to magnets, when repelling one magnet with the other, the repelling force doesn't take effect immediately, as far as I know. If you move the one magnet, the other one "feels" the change in the magnetic field a miniscule amount of time later, because the changes of the magnetic field don't travel faster than with the speed of light.
That's was the reason for my question originally, with regards to your statement about the possible direct contact between entangled particles before. What is direct contact in that case?
Originally I thought you might mean that we only perceive them very distant from each other, while they may be in fact very close to each other, in a way which (so far) is outside our observation capabilities. Different dimensions or such fancy things. Who knows, maybe those two particles are actually only one particle and we just can't see this fact. Ok ok, that's a little crazy now, haha. |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1486
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 01:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Actually fields have impacts much faster. If I wave my hand around, I tow the entire Andromeda galaxy with it instantly. There is no travel time because my hands are already touching it as we speak. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10191
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 05:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Esna Pitoojee wrote:ArticleSo, apparently they've got the success rate way, way up with this kind of thing, although the process involves electrons "trapped in diamonds at extremely low temperature". Still, one step closer... RELEVANT EVE LORE FACTOID: Quantum entanglement, used in this 'teleportation', is the way our "fluid router" communications function in EVE lore. This is why - in addition to being instantaneous despite vast stellar distances - it is virtually impossible to 'jam' our communications: The entanglement effectively functions 'around' rather than 'through' the space between two points; any noise between those two points is irrelevant so long as the entangled link holds up. Quantum teleportation has NOTHING to do with teleportation in any sense that we think about it, and will never lead to any kind of instantaneous or faster-than-light communications platform. That's a physical impossibility. You cannot use quantum entanglement or quantum teleportation to transmit classical information. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1486
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 05:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:You cannot use quantum entanglement or quantum teleportation to transmit classical information. It's kind of difficult to verify that something can't be done simply by not having found a way yet; even more difficult when a way has been found.
We already know that in some ways, things are much closer than they appear. I don't see why we should assume this property cannot be exploited in any way to transmit information across our 3D plane faster than light travels through it. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10191
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 05:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:You cannot use quantum entanglement or quantum teleportation to transmit classical information. It's kind of difficult to verify that something can't be done simply by not having found a way yet; even more difficult when a way has been found. We already know that in some ways, things are much closer than they appear. I don't see why we should assume this property cannot be exploited in any way to transmit information across our 3D plane faster than light travels through it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem
In layman's terms (I'm posting an explanation given by user methinks2015 on reddit):
Quote:Think of it this way: suppose you have two coins, one set to heads and the other to tails. You randomly place them into the two bags, give one bag to Arlene (who stays on Earth) and the other one to Brett (who flies off to another galaxy). Note that Arlene and Brett don't know from the outset what kind of coin they have.
Each one can flip their coin from heads to tails (and vice versa) at will, and it will instantly flip the other coin -- the coins are entangled. BUT, they can only do that as long as NEITHER of them open their bags or look at their coins. As soon as one of them looks at his/her coin, the whole system breaks down and they cannot manipulate the other coin remotely any more. This means that they cannot peek at their coin before they flip it.
So Arlene has a bag with an undetermined coin and wants to send Brett a message. She flips the coin (without looking at it), Brett then looks at his coin (collapsing the system), and.... it tells Brett exactly nothing because he didn't know whether his coin was heads or tails in the first place. And if he would have checked, then Arlene would not have been able to flip Brett's coin.
In fact, if Arlene wants to pass any information to Brett via entangled coins, she has to (1) either flip or not flip her coin, and (2) either tell Brett whether she flipped the coin or not, or else tell Brett what her coin came out to be.
Note that step (2) always has to occur via normal wires as a normal ("classical", as opposed to "quantum") message. Which sucks, because it can't happen faster than light.
So entanglement is cool, but can't be used to transmit information faster than light. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1972
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 05:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Actually fields have impacts much faster. If I wave my hand around, I tow the entire Andromeda galaxy with it instantly. There is no travel time because my hands are already touching it as we speak.
I found this on the topic: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/grav_speed.html
from the conclusion part of above link wrote: If the calculational framework of general relativity is accepted, the damping can be used to calculate the speed, and the actual measurement confirms that the speed of gravity is equal to the speed of light to within 1%
Bottom line: we haven't been able to measure it directly, but all the hints seem to point to a finite speed for gravitational interaction. (And for electromagnetic interaction we already measured this directly, as changes in electromagnetic fields propagate as electromagnetic waves .. light) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10192
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 05:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
That's NOT to say that quantum teleportation is useless or has no application. That's also demonstrably untrue. Quantum teleportation does have significant applications in the field of computer science, both in the construction of quantum computers, and more interestingly in the field of secure communications and cryptography. It would lead to, for example, a communications system that cannot possibly be tapped by a third party. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10192
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 05:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Actually fields have impacts much faster. If I wave my hand around, I tow the entire Andromeda galaxy with it instantly. There is no travel time because my hands are already touching it as we speak. I found this on the topic: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/grav_speed.htmlfrom the conclusion part of above link wrote: If the calculational framework of general relativity is accepted, the damping can be used to calculate the speed, and the actual measurement confirms that the speed of gravity is equal to the speed of light to within 1%
Bottom line: we haven't been able to measure it directly, but all the hints seem to point to a finite speed for gravitational interaction. (And for electromagnetic interaction we already measured this directly, as changes in electromagnetic fields propagate as electromagnetic waves .. light) If gravity DIDN'T have a finite speed then it would have some pretty serious implications for science. It would completely shatter what we know about relativity. And it would allow for violations of causality, etc.
Of course one of the problems is that a finite speed of light necessitates the existence of gravitational waves. Indirect evidence for gravitational waves has been found, but because gravity is so incredibly weak (it's the weakest of the fundamental interactions, which is why quantum mechanics fails to account for it at all) we haven't yet been able to detect them directly. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1972
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 05:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: [interesting stuff about transmitting information faster than the speed of light and why it shouldn't work]
That's how I had understood it so far as well. But if they have found a way, then it's possible I guess. I'd just like to understand ^-^
Edit: I haven't read the paper the article in the OP talks about, but maybe it's just about quantum teleportation for computing and secure communication, as James said above, not about transmitting information instantaneously? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10195
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 06:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
It is transmitting information instantaneously. It's just that the type of information is quantum information. You can't use it in the same sense as you can use classical information.
In order to make use of quantum teleportation for communications purposes it needs to be supplemented with classical information, which has the speed-of-light hard limit. Quantum information on its own can't be magically turned into classical information that we can interpret in any meaningful sense (this is the no-teleportation theorem). "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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